261 réponses à ce sujet

[rak72]

Why can't I appoint my Cousland to rule alone.  I have a more legiamate claim to the throne than Annora - she dosn't even have noble blood.  Bryce was so well loved, I think everyone would be more than pleased to see his youngest ruling.

[Raiil]

Because Anora has rights as the Queen Regent, and she has popularity on her side as well. Just because you're a Cousland and your dad was popular doesn't mean that popularity transfers over to you. Alistair and Anora's 'right' to the throne trumps yours by a wide margin.

[Sarah1281]

Because you have the same problem Eamon does: you'd just look like you'd be trying to take advantage of Cailan's death and the civil war to gain more power. Anora has a claim to the throne because Cailan had no heir and she's been ruling in Cailan's stead at least when he was off to war and probably more often for the last five years. Alistair is a Theirin, the last (maybe. Maric really seemed to get around) of the line that united Ferelden and a big part of their national identity. The Theirin line is what helped hold the rebellion together under Moira and later Maric's banner. Since Eamon is backing Alistair is strengthes his claim and he is the only one who can really challenge is but even then it could go either way so the final decision is yours.

And Anora does so have noble blood. Her father was a Teyrn and that makes her legally nobly born. That the other nobles look down on new blood does not change the fact she had the same status as you did prior to marrying Cailan and becoming Queen.

Because Anora has rights as the Queen Regent

Anora was Queen Consort to Cailan's King Regent. If she were Queen Regent Loghain's regency and the Landsmeet would have been unnecessary.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 24 avril 2010 - 02:22 .

[rak72]

Alistair trumphs Cousland by miles, but queen consort have no claim. Cousland noble blood should definatly trumph that

Modifié par rak72, 24 avril 2010 - 02:27 .

[revan11exile]

Say rak72 i also have wondered why my Cousland could not rule as well.It is are right as the second most loved noble family to be the next in line to rule Anora has no noble blood and why can i not become king instead of prince.And who appoints the next person to rule because Anora just flat out tells me that she will not marry me unless i would become only a prince.(Strange)

[Sarah1281]

Queen CONSORT. Regent is ruler. And she has the same status: daughter of a Teyrn. Any advantage Cousland blood gives you in the eyes of the Landsmeet is cancelled out by her experience ruling and the fact that she did rule in place of Cailan when he was away. If you concede Alistair has a stronger claim than you then why would your side put forth two candidates? It would only split your support and make Anora more likely to win.

[Sarah1281]

revan11exile wrote...

Say rak72 i also have wondered why my Cousland could not rule as well.It is are right as the second most loved noble family to be the next in line to rule Anora has no noble blood and why can i not become king instead of prince.And who appoints the next person to rule because Anora just flat out tells me that she will not marry me unless i would become only a prince.(Strange)

If Alistair and Anora rule together they are Queen Regent and King Regent. They both have equal power and if they have a disagreement they have to sort it out amongst themselves. If you marry Alistair or Anora they are the King/Queen Regent and you are the Queen/King (also known as Princess/Prince) Consort. You are still called King or Queen but your spouse has the power to overrule you. Anora doesn't want to be ruling in her husband's name again and she wants to be a ruler in her own right which is why if you sound too power-hungry she reminds you that technically you're playing second-fiddle to her.

[rak72]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Queen CONSORT. Regent is ruler. And she has the same status: daughter of a Teyrn. Any advantage Cousland blood gives you in the eyes of the Landsmeet is cancelled out by her experience ruling and the fact that she did rule in place of Cailan when he was away. If you concede Alistair has a stronger claim than you then why would your side put forth two candidates? It would only split your support and make Anora more likely to win.

Yes, consort - corrected.  My father was the second most powerful noble in Fereldan - that should put me ahead of her. And if I execute her father, and Alistair is all - " I don't want to be king, I want to be a GW" , and I can convince the Landsmeet that her & Log's incomptance got Fereldan into this mess - why not?

[rak72]

Sarah1281 wrote...

revan11exile wrote...

Say rak72 i also have wondered why my Cousland could not rule as well.It is are right as the second most loved noble family to be the next in line to rule Anora has no noble blood and why can i not become king instead of prince.And who appoints the next person to rule because Anora just flat out tells me that she will not marry me unless i would become only a prince.(Strange)

If Alistair and Anora rule together they are Queen Regent and King Regent. They both have equal power and if they have a disagreement they have to sort it out amongst themselves. If you marry Alistair or Anora they are the King/Queen Regent and you are the Queen/King (also known as Princess/Prince) Consort. You are still called King or Queen but your spouse has the power to overrule you. Anora doesn't want to be ruling in her husband's name again and she wants to be a ruler in her own right which is why if you sound too power-hungry she reminds you that technically you're playing second-fiddle to her.

Didn't she just assume this regency after Calin died?  What gives her that right.  Thats why we are having the Landsmeet.  And why did the landsmeet Alistair & Annora equals, but not Al & queen Cousland?  This isn't right

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

Ya but you have claim to the lands of highever not the throne and by marrage Anora has the right to rule causes she already queen noble blood or not her and alistar have the only legal right to take the throne and a noble claiming the throne alone would cause a big upset in the court and most likely many nobles will try to make claims to the throne and it'll become a mess. The nobles only have a claim to there lands not the throne of ferelden.

[rak72]

But as Darrian said, many thought MY father should have been king ahead of Cailin - just sayin

[Sarah1281]

Your father was second only to the King and so was hers. Even if there is a stigma against her because she is new to nobility she was still born a noblewoman. If you won the Landsmeet she probably sided with you and thus has distanced herself from her father so you can't blame her for Loghain's actions. If you lost the Landsmeet and had to pull a coup then saying 'Alistair or Anora? I pick me!' makes you sound even more self-serving and they wouldn't accept it. The Landsmeet was called because Eamon challenged Loghain's right to the regency and put forth Alistair as having a stroger claim than Anora. You might have an equal claim to her but you don't remove one person from a position just to put an equally qualified person in their place. You need to put a stronger candidate. You and Alistair/Anora can together conclusively overcome Anora/Alistair's experience/blood and that's why you can have a political marriage to Anora or railroad Alistair.



The Landsmeet is basically an election. You have two candidates: Alistair and Anora. What election allows you to decide to declare somebody completely differant the winner? If Alistair refuses to be King that means the other candidate, Anora, would win by default. Either Eamon's charge that Alistair is a stronger candidate than Anora passes and he gets the throne or it fails and she can keep it. Where, exactly, does a Cousland fit into that aside from strengthening one claim or another?

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

i understand what you mean but the problem is theres already a noble blood line on the throne theres a living heir Alistar and also the queen herself who has the technical right to rule for being queen of ferelden so over throwing them both to put yourself on the throne seems more like treason. Also you need some connection to the therin blood line to even have any right to claim the throne.

[Sarah1281]

Didn't she just assume this regency after Calin died? What gives her that right. Thats why we are having the Landsmeet. And why did the landsmeet Alistair & Annora equals, but not Al & queen Cousland? This isn't right

No, Loghain assumed the regency and 'what gives him that right' was part of what the Landsmeet was called about. If no one else was brought forth then unless Eamon wanted to look opportunistic by trying to claim the throne through Rowan, which was actually a weaker claim since he was just the brother of the Queen Consort, then Anora probably would have kept the throne.

But as Darrian said, many thought MY father should have been king ahead of Cailin - just sayin

That's because people thought Cailan was...callow and Bryce was popular and well-loved but he turned down the opportunity. Yes he was a Teyrn and that helped but Loghain was a Teyrn, too. You being Bryce's daughter is just like Anora being Loghain. How, new blood stigma aside, do you have a stronger claim than Anora?

[rak72]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Your father was second only to the King and so was hers. Even if there is a stigma against her because she is new to nobility she was still born a noblewoman. If you won the Landsmeet she probably sided with you and thus has distanced herself from her father so you can't blame her for Loghain's actions. If you lost the Landsmeet and had to pull a coup then saying 'Alistair or Anora? I pick me!' makes you sound even more self-serving and they wouldn't accept it. The Landsmeet was called because Eamon challenged Loghain's right to the regency and put forth Alistair as having a stroger claim than Anora. You might have an equal claim to her but you don't remove one person from a position just to put an equally qualified person in their place. You need to put a stronger candidate. You and Alistair/Anora can together conclusively overcome Anora/Alistair's experience/blood and that's why you can have a political marriage to Anora or railroad Alistair.

The Landsmeet is basically an election. You have two candidates: Alistair and Anora. What election allows you to decide to declare somebody completely differant the winner? If Alistair refuses to be King that means the other candidate, Anora, would win by default. Either Eamon's charge that Alistair is a stronger candidate than Anora passes and he gets the throne or it fails and she can keep it. Where, exactly, does a Cousland fit into that aside from strengthening one claim or another?

I got the Impression that  Bryce's Teyren was more powerful than Logain's (at least until the Cousland's were wiped out, and he made himself regent).  I would argue to the landsmeet that Anora & Log are one in the same, and its my side vs. theirs.  If I defeat Log, it would be like defeating Annora too - and I get the final say. I can try to prove that Fereldan went to hell in a handbasket after Cailin died, and that she is incompetent, I can point out that Howe massacared the Couslands, and instead of bringing him to justice, she rewarded him with lands and riches...Then if she argues that that was her father's doing, I will say that THAT is further evidence that she is incompetent to rule. In fact any of Logain's & Howe's debauchery  that went down while she was the queen would go to evidence that she is not fit to rule - she should have been able to take controll of them. I think enough nobles liked my father, and were done wrong by Log that I can convince them to suport me.  Not saying that it should be automatic, but I think its a legitimate claim.

Modifié par rak72, 24 avril 2010 - 03:04 .

[atheelogos]

rak72 wrote...

Why can't I appoint my Cousland to rule alone.  I have a more legiamate claim to the throne than Annora - she dosn't even have noble blood.  Bryce was so well loved, I think everyone would be more than pleased to see his youngest ruling.

Because weither you like it or not she is Queen. That means more than being a noble.

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

Not really your cousland is not Bryce if Bryce was alive he might of been able to claim the throne but you dont have a popularity that he does. Like i said you need to have a claim through marrage or actually have therin blood to rule easy solution become queen or king with anora or alistar. Nobles cant claim anyone to the throne while Heirs still live it just doesn't work like that.

[rak72]

I think I'll be plenty popular after savin Fereldan's ass

[Raiil]

When Cailan dies, Anora is, at least temporarily, the Queen Regent, even if her dad completely ran that over and yanked it from her. A Regent is one who rules in the stead of the King/Queen Regnant, who is the ruler by right (either by election or blood). Normally a Regent is in place when the Regnant dies or is otherwise unable to assume their day to day duties; most Queen Regents are such because the heir to the throne is a minor and unable to ascend, or because the King Regnant is away from the throne.

[rak72]

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...

Not really your cousland is not Bryce if Bryce was alive he might of been able to claim the throne but you dont have a popularity that he does. Like i said you need to have a claim through marrage or actually have therin blood to rule easy solution become queen or king with anora or alistar. Nobles cant claim anyone to the throne while Heirs still live it just doesn't work like that.

So if I'm a male Cousland and marry her, then get my friends at the Crows to discreatly facillitate an accident for her, then I will not have any problems with my claim to being  King?

[Sarah1281]

I got the Impression that Bryce's Teyren was more powerful than Logain's (at least until the Cousland's were wiped out, and he made himself regent). I would argue to the landsmeet that Anora & Log are one in the same, and its my side vs. theirs. If I defeat Log, it would be like defeating Annora too - and I get the final say. I can try to prove that Fereldan went to hell in a handbasket after Cailin died, and that she is incompetent, I can point out that Howe massacared the Couslands, and instead of bringing him to justice, she rewarded him with lands and riches...Then if she argues that that was her father's doing, I will say that THAT is further evidence that she is incompetent to rule. In fact any of Logain's & Howe's debauchery that went down while she was the queen would go to evidence that she is not fit to rule - she should have been able to take controll of them. I think enough nobles liked my father, and were done wrong by Log that I can convince them to suport me. Not saying that it should be automatic, but I think its a legitimate claim.

I never got the impression Bryce was more powerful. They both have a Teyrn. Gwaren and Highever. He may be more popular but that doesn't give him more power. Howe had plenty of power and everyone hated him, after all. You can't can't say anything against Anora at the Landsmeet (besides complaining if she double-crosses you) as Anora isn't he issue. It's what Loghain's done as her Regent and she wants a chance to be Regent. Yes she failed to stand up to him in letting him grab regency but once he had it she's not liable for what he does. If you feel Anora is unfit then give it to Aistair. He is the one being offered up as the better candidate you saying 'forget both of them I want power! Me!' makes you come across as opportunistic and power-hungry to the nobles and comes completely out of left field. You're unproven as a noble and no one really knows anything about you. You haven't been involved in politics, none of the other nobles at the Landsmeet have even met you, and the dialogue keeps encouraging you to say you've never left Highever. Yes Bryce was popular but so were Maric and Loghain.



Why should you, a completely untested child of a popular leader, be Queen alone? If it's just pedigree than Alistair's is more impressive.

[Sarah1281]

rak72 wrote...

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...

Not really your cousland is not Bryce if Bryce was alive he might of been able to claim the throne but you dont have a popularity that he does. Like i said you need to have a claim through marrage or actually have therin blood to rule easy solution become queen or king with anora or alistar. Nobles cant claim anyone to the throne while Heirs still live it just doesn't work like that.

So if I'm a male Cousland and marry her, then get my friends at the Crows to discreatly facillitate an accident for her, then I will not have any problems with my claim to being  King?

Then they will call another Landsmeet to see if you should keep the throne and if you're suspected of her death or haven't proven yourself it may not go so smoothly. Part of the reason there was a Civil War was because Loghain declared himself the regent which he had no right to do instead of calling for a Landsmeet because he feared his daughter would be deposed and, if nothing else, he'd lose his abiliy to deal with the Orle-er, Blight.

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

rak72 wrote...

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...

Not really your cousland is not Bryce if Bryce was alive he might of been able to claim the throne but you dont have a popularity that he does. Like i said you need to have a claim through marrage or actually have therin blood to rule easy solution become queen or king with anora or alistar. Nobles cant claim anyone to the throne while Heirs still live it just doesn't work like that.

So if I'm a male Cousland and marry her, then get my friends at the Crows to discreatly facillitate an accident for her, then I will not have any problems with my claim to being  King?

It depends on alot of things first of all that wouldn't make sence and people might suspect that you had her killed secound if theres someone else with a claim stronger then yours you'll have to step down from the throne.  Also at that point whats the point of killing anora. But if you want to go that deep yes you could do that but....that would be so pointless its not even funny Nobles could only get a claim to the throne if they have a claim through marrage but say that all the therin bloodline was wiped and anora died then they'd most likely vote on a new king but thats going into to much detail. Also you are not respected as a leader or a general when you enter the lands meet they deem you as inexperenced.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...
I never got the impression Bryce was more powerful. They both have a Teyrn. Gwaren and Highever. He may be more popular but that doesn't give him more power. 

I do not think Bryce is more powerful or more popular than Loghain. Loghain is the Hero of the River Dane afterall, which probably makes him the most popular Fereldan out there. In addition to being Ferelden's general, making him more powerful than Bryce (who is also pretty powerful and popular). And that's not to mention Loghain's status as King's Father in law. The only material difference is that Higherver seems to be more important than Gwaren (economically speaking).
 
As for the Cousland's right to the throne. The Couslands do not have any official right to the throne, unless via marriage and they remain Consorts (whether king or queen consort).
Alistair has more symbolic right than Anora, being a Therein. But Anora has experience and is known to have ruled 5 years before. So both are considered Regent by the landsmeet. 

A Cousland however has a lot of informal power. A female Cousland could basically manipulate Alistair to do her every whim (especially if unhardened). A male Cousland woudl have a tougher job, but in addition to being King Consort and Ferelden's general, he can also be Teyrn of Gwaren, effectively ensuring that both Highever and Gwaren are Cousland possessions.  That's a lot of potential leverage and pressure tools forthe Male Cousland.

In addition and this is also very important. Anora is most probably barren (as for now). That means she cannot produce an heir. Which means that it would be a Cousland who would probably inherit the throne, as no one else is closer. And a Male Cousland has proven capable of giving birth to a child. I personally am planing to make the Gold Child the successor to his father's throne.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 24 avril 2010 - 03:29 .

[rak72]

I just don't think that Anora's marriage gives her any more of a legitimate claim than a Cousland. And I don't think her ruling thus far has proven her worthy. If she were a worthy ruler, she should have controlled her father and Howe better. Alistair would be perfectly within his rights to have her executed immediatly after the landsmeet if he were appointed King - who would rule in that case, if all didn't go well with him and the Archdemon? I guess a new landsmeet - Fergus vs Eamon