261 réponses à ce sujet

[KnightofPhoenix]

rak72 wrote...

I just don't think that Anora's marriage gives her any more of a legitimate claim than a Cousland. And I don't think her ruling thus far has proven her worthy. If she were a worthy ruler, she should have controlled her father and Howe better. Alistair would be perfectly within his rights to have her executed immediatly after the landsmeet if he were appointed King - who would rule in that case, if all didn't go well with him and the Archdemon? I guess a new landsmeet - Fergus vs Eamon

Anora has a more legtimate case because she was already Queen consort who had been married to a king with no direct heir (Alistair is an unrecognized bastard). That means Anora is the only person in line for being Queen regent. Unless Eamon had a case for being king?

Eh, I think Alistair's decision to spare Anora is perhaps the wisest thing he ever did. If Alistair dies, Anora should be the one ruling, if only to avoid another civil war.
And technically, Fergus is higher in rank than Eamon. But Eamon can claim familial link with Alistair, via Maric's wife Rowan (even though there is no direct blood link at all). Complicated mess.

So the ideal candidates are Alistair and Anora, with or without Consorts (better with Consorts of course).

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 24 avril 2010 - 03:45 .

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

rak72 wrote...

I just don't think that Anora's marriage gives her any more of a legitimate claim than a Cousland. And I don't think her ruling thus far has proven her worthy. If she were a worthy ruler, she should have controlled her father and Howe better. Alistair would be perfectly within his rights to have her executed immediatly after the landsmeet if he were appointed King - who would rule in that case, if all didn't go well with him and the Archdemon? I guess a new landsmeet - Fergus vs Eamon

She cant when she had swords at her throat and was locked up what you are saying makes no sence.
Your a NOBLE you can ONLY get on the THRONE if you have a  claim by MARRAGE thers no way around it anora HAS a claim by MARRAGE so she is a qualfied ruler. so if you dont have a claim by MARRAGE and your a noble then you arent heir to the throne.

[Sarah1281]

rak72 wrote...

I just don't think that Anora's marriage gives her any more of a legitimate claim than a Cousland. And I don't think her ruling thus far has proven her worthy. If she were a worthy ruler, she should have controlled her father and Howe better. Alistair would be perfectly within his rights to have her executed immediatly after the landsmeet if he were appointed King - who would rule in that case, if all didn't go well with him and the Archdemon? I guess a new landsmeet - Fergus vs Eamon

Which is exactly why he doesn't if hardened: it's a stupid thing to do. It's all well and good for Anora to kill Alitair as she intends to stay away from the battle after she does her speech. Anora is making a bid at the Landsmeet to keep her throne and is using her experience as Queen to augment her claim as Teyrn's daughter. As Cailan has no heir and, until Alistair popped up, no other family members she very would could have kept it.

The Landsmeet challenged the Loghain-ruling-through-Anora regime.What alternative did they propose? Alistair. Eamon addresses the issue of 'why can't the Cousland be Queen by herself' when he explains that he's not happy about going with Alistair but his claim is not stronger than Anora's - and neither is yours - and asking for her to be deposed to put yourself on just makes you look opportunistic and would make the nobles doubt the need to even remove Anora. Maybe you could have risked it and put one of you  up but Alistair had the family claim to the throne and so he was chosen instead. Once the Landsmeet became Alistair vs. Anora you kind of have to pick one. If you refuse to choose and prove yourself far too biased (not that anyone should have thought you were unbiased from the start) then someone else would have chosen.

You don't get to decide because you're a Cousland or a Warden. If you sound like you might spare Loghain then you get to choose because you just won the duel and it's a matter of deciding Loghain's fate. If Anora and Alistair have agreed to rule together then the Landsmeet was only necessary to get Loghain out of power. If Loghain dies then Alistair either accepts the throne without you needing to step in and give it to him or he's unhardened/in love with a HNF/promised to marry Anora/knows you support her and then when he says the Landsmeet DIDN'T choose him an Anora tries to take that as an 'I don't want the throne' then Eamon points out she's hardly unbiased and since he called the Landsmeet neither is he so he suggests you do it. If you start talking about your own power he'd need to find someone else who can at least pretend to be doing what's best for Ferelden.

[Sarah1281]

Unless Eamon had a case for being king?

Since Anora was Queen Consort herself and Eamon was the brother of a previous Queen Consort (not even the most recent) Anora has a stronger claim by marriage than he does.

[Suron]

rak72 wrote...

Why can't I appoint my Cousland to rule alone.  I have a more legiamate claim to the throne than Annora - she dosn't even have noble blood.  Bryce was so well loved, I think everyone would be more than pleased to see his youngest ruling.

no..no he/she (your character) doesn't....Anora has ties through DIRECT marriage..AND she was the one that practically ruled Fereldan for the past several years..and it seems MOST know it.

you have an even LESS claim to the throne then Alistair OR Eamon/Teagan.

don't be ridiculous.

Modifié par Suron, 24 avril 2010 - 04:58 .

[makavelli1789]

I think that the cousland actually has the best claim to the throne besides alistair. The game says I think in the codex or somewere that Highever is the more important teyner than Gwaren. Anora is only the queen consort once Cailin is dead she really has no real claim, and it could be pointed out that she allowed this civil war to happen by letting loghain and howe screw everything up, including rewarding howe for murdering the couslands by making him the new teyrn and giving him denerim.
Even tho she did not do it she allowed and did nothing to stop loghain from doing it. With only Alistair left of the Theirin line as the bastard son of  Maric, and him being a very unwilling and unreconised heir, he is not a great canidate. If he is hardened and willing he is a slightly better canidate than Anora. However the Cousland pc has cousland blood the second  most important blood in fereldan after theirin blood. The cousland pc also is at least in all of my playthroughs a very charismatic and persuasive leader. If the game gave you the option it would have been easy to talk to Alistair beforehand and convince him to come out in Support of you as King. He doesn't want to rule, he allows you to lead the whole time, and your a cousland, and your going to kill Loghain. Alistair would deff agree. You also probly could have convinced eamon to support you, instead of Alistair.
You could have convinced him your the best for fereldan, you can and want to lead. Once the theirins are all gone it would prety much make sense if the royal blood would pass on to the couslands since they are second most powerful after theirin. Even if you didnt convince or talk to eamon about it before the landsmeet, once alistair came out in support of you he would of had no choice to support you. Durring the landsmeet you could of lumped anora in with loghain as bad for fereldan, for allowing all he did wrong with out trying to stop him as incompetent also. Then when you duel and execute loghain, And alistair either supports you then or before durring the beggining, you could have said now, Swear fealaty to me to him and anora,and everyone else in the landsmeet. Alistair would and anora wouldnt of and you could have threatened her or anyone else who didn't comply with execution. And remember you have an army and you and your companions are a small army in yourselfs, you could put down anyone who went against you.
I also don't understand why their was no option to persuade/ intimidate anora before the landsmeet to rule jointly with you instead of as her consort. I mean you could of just been like **** you know what i'm capable of i slew ser cauthrine and her crazy archers, just before this. If you don't aggree i can kill you and your traiter father, or you can aggree and be my eual ruller.

[Sarah1281]

Why isn't it enough for some people that they can end up King or Queen of Ferelden as a HN by marrying Anora or Alistair? With the possible exception of the DN when Harrowmont is chosen, they are the only people who get to be royalty. What's with the need to go it alone?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Why isn't it enough for some people that they can end up King or Queen of Ferelden as a HN by marrying Anora or Alistair? With the possible exception of the DN when Harrowmont is chosen, they are the only people who get to be royalty. What's with the need to go it alone?

Howe doesn't seem to be the only one who lusts for power

[makavelli1789]

I think i have a lot of legit points. Its not really the lust for power part that bothers me, its just that its a legit option that you should have been able to pursue. It also makes a lot of sense for the HNF to enter into either a political or romantic marriage with Alistair. It mostly just bothers my human noble since he is relegated to prince consort while Alistair is willing to make HNF queen. I would have had little issue with sharing power with Anora if she was willing to be my equal. She was complaining about rulling in the shadow of Cailin, but i would of liked to have the option to rule as equal monarchs, which would have made a lot of sense. Rather than having her try to boss me around and give her full power and relegate me to consort.

[Raiil]

makavelli1789 wrote...

I think that the cousland actually has the best claim to the throne besides alistair. The game says I think in the codex or somewere that Highever is the more important teyner than Gwaren. Anora is only the queen consort once Cailin is dead she really has no real claim, and it could be pointed out that she allowed this civil war to happen by letting loghain and howe screw everything up, including rewarding howe for murdering the couslands by making him the new teyrn and giving him denerim.
Even tho she did not do it she allowed and did nothing to stop loghain from doing it. With only Alistair left of the Theirin line as the bastard son of  Maric, and him being a very unwilling and unreconised heir, he is not a great canidate. If he is hardened and willing he is a slightly better canidate than Anora. However the Cousland pc has cousland blood the second  most important blood in fereldan after theirin blood. The cousland pc also is at least in all of my playthroughs a very charismatic and persuasive leader. If the game gave you the option it would have been easy to talk to Alistair beforehand and convince him to come out in Support of you as King. He doesn't want to rule, he allows you to lead the whole time, and your a cousland, and your going to kill Loghain. Alistair would deff agree. You also probly could have convinced eamon to support you, instead of Alistair.
You could have convinced him your the best for fereldan, you can and want to lead. Once the theirins are all gone it would prety much make sense if the royal blood would pass on to the couslands since they are second most powerful after theirin. Even if you didnt convince or talk to eamon about it before the landsmeet, once alistair came out in support of you he would of had no choice to support you. Durring the landsmeet you could of lumped anora in with loghain as bad for fereldan, for allowing all he did wrong with out trying to stop him as incompetent also. Then when you duel and execute loghain, And alistair either supports you then or before durring the beggining, you could have said now, Swear fealaty to me to him and anora,and everyone else in the landsmeet. Alistair would and anora wouldnt of and you could have threatened her or anyone else who didn't comply with execution. And remember you have an army and you and your companions are a small army in yourselfs, you could put down anyone who went against you.
I also don't understand why their was no option to persuade/ intimidate anora before the landsmeet to rule jointly with you instead of as her consort. I mean you could of just been like **** you know what i'm capable of i slew ser cauthrine and her crazy archers, just before this. If you don't aggree i can kill you and your traiter father, or you can aggree and be my eual ruller.

Your character used to have a great claim- technically speaking, as a Warden, you don't have a claim at all, since you give that all away. And you don't have a teynr either- it was Howe's at death and has yet to be reverted back to you, even if we all know it's a matter of time.


Alistair's strongest claim- and it's a damn strong claim for the Landsmeet- rests solely on his lineage, something that you don't have, so far as anyone knows. (I wouldn't be surprised if the Couslands had some Theirin blood in them, but then I would guess a lot of the other nobles do as well.) Eamon is not going to support you just because Alistair will- he's as fixated on the bloodline as anyone else. And Anora, once again, has claim, as the widow of the King- because there is no heir, there is one hell of a power vacuum and she is best poised to fill it, because she is the regent- the ruler because the regnant is unavaliable (in this case, due to death.). She is noble- as noble as you are, technically speaking, since you're both, at that time, the only known living heir to a teryn.


You also have nothing to prove to the Landsmeet that you're a capable leader of civilians. They are, at best, familiar in passing with what you've accomplished, which is basically all military, not the day to day details of political life. Notice that all of your treaties are for segments of Ferelden society that most people don't deal with day to day? I'm sure they're aware, but they don't know the circumstances, just that you are able to hold the mages, elves, and dwarves to their treaties, and that Arl Eamon- who is an interested party- is standing by your side. You are the second child of a dead man with no rights to your former lands. You have some political credibility- and in view of the Blight, you're given a chance to choose the ruler, something that under normal circumstances, you would have no say in- and your nobility in your favour, but that's not enough to shake the Landsmeet down. You don't have the pull or the sanctity of a royal bloodline to help turn the tide, nor the knowledge that everyone knows what a great damn leader you are.

Modifié par Valentia X, 24 avril 2010 - 05:21 .

[Sarah1281]

makavelli1789 wrote...

I think i have a lot of legit points. Its not really the lust for power part that bothers me, its just that its a legit option that you should have been able to pursue. It also makes a lot of sense for the HNF to enter into either a political or romantic marriage with Alistair. It mostly just bothers my human noble since he is relegated to prince consort while Alistair is willing to make HNF queen. I would have had little issue with sharing power with Anora if she was willing to be my equal. She was complaining about rulling in the shadow of Cailin, but i would of liked to have the option to rule as equal monarchs, which would have made a lot of sense. Rather than having her try to boss me around and give her full power and relegate me to consort.

Ah, there's the problem. If you marry Alistair you are, as the epilogue points out the princess consort also known as Queen. If you marry Anora, as she points out, then you are prince consort also known as King. Anora wants to make sure you don't get any ideas about being the real power with her deferring to you as she technically did with Cailan. Her bid for the throne won and therefore she is the ruling Queen and you are her husband. It is the exact same situation with Alistair but because he won't marry you if he hates you and doesn't have Anora's lust for power he's not going to make sure that you know your place from the get-go.

And how is it not a lust for power? You are presente with two vialbe options and if you don't think either of them are sufficient on their own you can marry one of them or marry them to each other. Unless you're suggesting that they would both fail so utterly as rulers that even the other option or you marrying them wouldn't salvage the situation, you wanting to be solo ruler is a power grab. 

Anora has a right to the throne through marriage and Alistair has a right through blood. If both of them were to suddenly die then being a Cousland would help you get the throne as the next royal family but you don't have a claim through anything but 'some people liked my daddy better than Cailan' which nothing ever came out of anyway.

[makavelli1789]

But you also are in the middle of a blight, A millitary leader is exactly what the country needs at that point. Alistair has the best claim but if he supports you like I said at the landsmeet then basically Eamon would be forced to support you or loose the landsmeet to loghain and anora. Also you have the ablility to coerce/ threaten everyone with a coup if they don't comply just as loghain tried to pull, and he would have succeded if you did not stop him. You and your crew faced far worse than the guards at the landsmeet, and you could have basically done what the codex said Callenhad did to become king.(It says everyone bowed to him as king because he atteneded with mages and ash warriors). You would coerece threaten everyone to swear fealatlty that didnt agree. People obviously would be upset about it but your in a unique sitiuation. The royal blood line is gone besides alistair who doesn't want to be king, and is not formally acknowledged as theirin. Your in a civil war, and a blight. The nation needs unity and you are giving that to them. The couslands step in as the new royal blood line since Callenhads blood line is gone basically. Which situations like this have happened before in many monarchys and new royal blood lines are started because of it. Then once you go kick the arch demons ass and are hero of fereldan everyone who had a prob with you pulling you becoming monaarch basically will stfu and accept you as sovereign .

[makavelli1789]

Ya but with alistair its not so big a deal because he is not power hungry and you can be sure he deffinantly will listen to you. With Anora she can completly ignore you if she wants, and while alistair technically could he wouldnt unless you tried saying something crazy, and even then you probly could convince him. Anora on the other hand is all about power and my cousland didn't feel comftorable being only the consort when it would of been a simple matter of being her co regnant.

[Sarah1281]

Why? Why not pick Alistair or Anora? You don't trust Anora? Fine, go with Alistair. Alistair doesn't want to rule? If he's hardened he'll come around on that idea or pick Anora. As a Cousland you could even marry one of them and satisfy your thirst for power and get a more legitimate claim.



And surely you're not claiming that pulling a coup makes you a legitimate option for a ruler. It might make you the leader but certainly not fast and smooth enough (which is why they called the Landsmeetin the first place) to deal with the Blight. And you and what army would be doin this, exactly? The mages/elves/dwarves are obligated to fight darkspawn and end th Blight not deal with human politcs. And I hardly think Eamon will back you if you're not even supportng his candidate.



Just because you have max coercion does not mean everyone will automatically do what you say. If you can't even convince Eamon OR Teagan to let Jowan go or Alistair not to leave if Loghain lives then how do you propose to actually do what you just accused Loghain and have the nobles go along with it? Calenhad's unification only worked because he - forcefully with a huge army you don't have - got the nobles on board. You're alienating them.



And the part about being the Hero of Ferelden means people have tod o what you say? That is the same kind of ridiculous argument that whatever origin should get to become Alistair's Queen because they killed a giant dragon. That's NOT how Ferelden politics works and it won't end the civil war, it will just add fuel to the flames. Loghain was the Hero of River Dane, remember? How well did everyone take his power grab?

[Sarah1281]

makavelli1789 wrote...

Ya but with alistair its not so big a deal because he is not power hungry and you can be sure he deffinantly will listen to you. With Anora she can completly ignore you if she wants, and while alistair technically could he wouldnt unless you tried saying something crazy, and even then you probly could convince him. Anora on the other hand is all about power and my cousland didn't feel comftorable being only the consort when it would of been a simple matter of being her co regnant.

There's nothing 'simple' about it: there is a ruler and their spouse. Alistair and Anora co-ruling is a highly unusual situation and could very well end badly whenever they disagree. Why would Anora surrender that much power to you? She's terrified of being in a husband's shadow again. If your male HN doesn't want to listen to Anora then maybe he can try what every other Origin who wants to have a say in govering does: put Alistair on the throne and become chancellor.

[makavelli1789]

You could have convince eamon to support you before the landsmeet, with alistair not agreeing to be king and you putting yourself forward as the canidate i don't see him not agreeing with it at least for the sake of ending the civil war and the blight. And no i'm not saying that killing the archdemon means everyone will do what ever you say, but it will certainly make people think twice about opposing you. And after the archdemon is dead their would be no one that could legitamitly challenge you.And with the coup idea itwould only have to come to that if you couldn't get enougt people to support you. If bioware had made the options you should have been able to go to the nobles that you go to get support normally and convince them to support your bid for the throne. Then the nobles would not of felt alienated, and it would of been a smooth transition.

[Raiil]

makavelli1789 wrote...

But you also are in the middle of a blight, A millitary leader is exactly what the country needs at that point. Alistair has the best claim but if he supports you like I said at the landsmeet then basically Eamon would be forced to support you or loose the landsmeet to loghain and anora. Also you have the ablility to coerce/ threaten everyone with a coup if they don't comply just as loghain tried to pull, and he would have succeded if you did not stop him. You and your crew faced far worse than the guards at the landsmeet, and you could have basically done what the codex said Callenhad did to become king.(It says everyone bowed to him as king because he atteneded with mages and ash warriors). You would coerece threaten everyone to swear fealatlty that didnt agree. People obviously would be upset about it but your in a unique sitiuation. The royal blood line is gone besides alistair who doesn't want to be king, and is not formally acknowledged as theirin. Your in a civil war, and a blight. The nation needs unity and you are giving that to them. The couslands step in as the new royal blood line since Callenhads blood line is gone basically. Which situations like this have happened before in many monarchys and new royal blood lines are started because of it. Then once you go kick the arch demons ass and are hero of fereldan everyone who had a prob with you pulling you becoming monaarch basically will stfu and accept you as sovereign .

Eh, no. Ferelden does not need a King/Queen that is a military leader. Ferelden's army needs a strong military leader, which you are.

Let's put it another way, in the form of a personal example: I was in a military program in high school. I had all the fun leadership training, was in a position of power, etc. I also had some martial training outside of it. Within the hierarchy of the school's military program, I was a good person to take command when the need arose.


This, in no way, made me a viable candidate to act as class President. I was good in one specific area, which did not automatically lend itself to another. Going back to Ferelden- you are a strong military leader. You have shown absolutely no ability with anything remotely involved with ruling a country. You didn't even get to run Highever, due to the douchetastic moves of Howe. You have nothing that vouches for your economic acumen, your ability to inspire people in civilian matters, your negotiation skills and how you would deal with international matters. Your bloodline is more useful to solidifying the rule of Alistair or Anora, not for putting yourself on the throne. Being able to finalise treaties does not mean you're going to pull the people of Ferelden together.


By stepping up, you are not offering unity. You're offering an alternative, and you already have that- his name is Alistair and his heritage trumps everything you have by about a ton. Tossing your hat in the ring only serves to divide things further.

[makavelli1789]

Sarah1281 wrote...

 There's nothing 'simple' about it: there is a ruler and their spouse. Alistair and Anora co-ruling is a highly unusual situation and could very well end badly whenever they disagree. Why would Anora surrender that much power to you? She's terrified of being in a husband's shadow again. If your male HN doesn't want to listen to Anora then maybe he can try what every other Origin who wants to have a say in govering does: put Alistair on the throne and become chancellor.

So what if she's terrified of it, if she could do it with alistiar it should work for the HMN. He could persuade her that he is not going to put her in his shadow and that they would be equal. They could easily worked out terms for that he deals more with defense and she deals more with economy or something like that, but they both have say.

[Sarah1281]

Why would Eamon support you? He wants Alistair to do it. Alistair might not want to at first - or at all if you don't harden him which it really sounds like you didn't - but he does understand that Anora has a lot of the same traits he hates in Loghain. And how would that even work, anyway? Eamon calls the Landsmeet because he says Alistair has a stronger claim than Anora. That's why everyone showed up, to consider Alistair vs. Anora. If Eamon changes his mind at the last second and says that he thinks that random Cousland girl who no one knows anything about has a better claim than Anora because...look, her grandfather made cabinets! It's really not going to fly.



For the sake of ending the Civil War Eamon is willing to support Anora even if that means Alistair is dead or exiled. If you court a coup by trying to strongarm your way to the throne, again reminding everyone of the man who strongarmed his way to the regency and whom you just deposed, then he will again support Anora for the sake of ending the Civil War.



And you've yet to explan why it's so necessary that you be King or Queen? Are you sure you don't just want more power? I know that whenever I play a DN and kill Bhelen I fully acknowledge that it's so I can eventually take the thone after Harrowmont dies and not because I'm under any illusions that I'm acting in the best interest of Orzammar.

[Sarah1281]

makavelli1789 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

 There's nothing 'simple' about it: there is a ruler and their spouse. Alistair and Anora co-ruling is a highly unusual situation and could very well end badly whenever they disagree. Why would Anora surrender that much power to you? She's terrified of being in a husband's shadow again. If your male HN doesn't want to listen to Anora then maybe he can try what every other Origin who wants to have a say in govering does: put Alistair on the throne and become chancellor.

So what if she's terrified of it, if she could do it with alistiar it should work for the HMN. He could persuade her that he is not going to put her in his shadow and that they would be equal. They could easily worked out terms for that he deals more with defense and she deals more with economy or something like that, but they both have say.

 First of all she only agrees to rule with you or Alistair when you make it clear that's the cost of your support. She thinks Alistair is still the way Cailan described him: basically weak and easily controllable. She can deal with that. She knows the HN wouldn't be content to just sit on the sidelines and so she's not going to offer him more power. She's not happy Alistair has co-regency. Anora doesn't WANT to be equal and since she's already Queen and you just come out of nowhere and don't even have the royal bloodline on your side you're just being opportunistic and she'll never agree. Try it and watch her betray you so quickly at the Landsmeet...

And if you mean just the military then you can be King Regent and still be appointed the leader of her armies. In fact, that's exactly what happens in game. If there's no reason besides you wanting more power for her to surrender power, then she's just not going to do it.

[rak72]

-Whats wrong with lust for power?



-HN not being known quantity at time of landsmeet?

Darrian says that rumor has it that I will jump over Fergus to be the next Teyrn, so the nobles already suspect that I am exceptional.

I saved Redcliff, they will be onboard

People probably heard that I killed all of the abominations at the circle

Sgt Kylon thinks I'm awsome

Mustered an army to take on the darkspawn

Helped a bunch of nobles just before the landsmeet

Took out Howe - whom they all hated, took out Ser Cauthrian, just took out the great general Loghain and have his assasin working for me - anyone with a beef with me will think twice about saying anything. Also took a few waves of guards on the streets of Denirum, and killed all of the guards in Ft. Drakon



-Annora not being able to controll Howe & Log because she had a knife to her throat?

A good leader needs to be able to controll her army. This just proves she has no controll over them. This kind of stuff wouldn't be happening under my command.



-My point about MPC + Annora, Annora dies - what happens then?

If you say that a lansdsmeet will be called, and maybe maybe not he will continue as king - that demonstates my point. The marriage to the monarch gives you no claim - you have to proove yourself worthy.

[makavelli1789]

Valentia X wrote...


Eh, no. Ferelden does not need a King/Queen that is a military leader. Ferelden's army needs a strong military leader, which you are.

Let's put it another way, in the form of a personal example: I was in a military program in high school. I had all the fun leadership training, was in a position of power, etc. I also had some martial training outside of it. Within the hierarchy of the school's military program, I was a good person to take command when the need arose.


This, in no way, made me a viable candidate to act as class President. I was good in one specific area, which did not automatically lend itself to another. Going back to Ferelden- you are a strong military leader. You have shown absolutely no ability with anything remotely involved with ruling a country. You didn't even get to run Highever, due to the douchetastic moves of Howe. You have nothing that vouches for your economic acumen, your ability to inspire people in civilian matters, your negotiation skills and how you would deal with international matters. Your bloodline is more useful to solidifying the rule of Alistair or Anora, not for putting yourself on the throne. Being able to finalise treaties does not mean you're going to pull the people of Ferelden together.


By stepping up, you are not offering unity. You're offering an alternative, and you already have that- his name is Alistair and his heritage trumps everything you have by about a ton. Tossing your hat in the ring only serves to divide things further.

A king is the millitary and domestic leader of the country. Anora has proven to be a good domestic leader but not millitary. Thats all beeb loghain, and previously cailin. Alistair has proven neither. Sure he is a good fighter but in no instances has he shown leader ship. the pc has shown great millitary and potentially been charismatic. Even tho you didn't get to run highever it can be reasonably assumed that you were well educated in all the arts of rulling and dealing with ecomoics. Im pretty sure i rember darrien even comments that he heard you were going to mostl likely get the teyrn instead of fergus. Now alistairs blood line if legit is the strongest claim, but its never been formally acknowlaged before this. He could be dismissed as not a true son of maric. He also could of supported you before hand so it would only be you and anora vying for the throne. In a blight and a civil war you deffinantly are the better choice.

[Raiil]

A king is military leader in theory. In practise, the king has someone who does all the battle plans, if they have any brain power going on, unless the king has shown themselves to be a brilliant tactician, which is extremely rare. A king has generals for a reason- their specialty is warfare, and they don't have to devote themselves to the minutiae of daily ruling. Generals don't dispense justice outside of the military realm or their own personal lands, they don't collect taxes, they don't set laws, they don't have to support the arts... a King may be the ~*leader*`~ but the General does the work. A king is a figurehead. Rare is the ruler who leads his men from the front- not out of cowardice, but out of common sense. You don't want a king captured and beheaded or worse, ransomed- you end up with issues like François Ier, and that never ends well.



In another light: In the USA, the President is the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces- he leads the military. He is also not out on the battlefield- he delegates to seasoned men who actually know what they're doing. In the same way, a good King can't just jump in the saddle and ride off for glory, or you end up with situations like Cailan.

[Sarah1281]

rak72 wrote...

-Whats wrong with lust for power?

If it's clear you're in this to make yourself ruler you hurt your case then Anora and Loghain are doing a bad job and need to ste down since you'd say that no matter how they were doing.

-HN not being known quantity at time of landsmeet?
Darrian says that rumor has it that I will jump over Fergus to be the next Teyrn, so the nobles already suspect that I am exceptional.

Highver rumor. No one knows anything about you outside of your Teyrn.

I saved Redcliff, they will be onboard

You have Redcliffe's support? So...Eamon's on your side. That's kind of a given and that's only if you try to end the war. If you ignore Alistair AND Anora so you can make a power grab then he'll support Anora to keep the peace to deal with the Blight.

People probably heard that I killed all of the abominations at the circle

There's so many rumors about what happened their it's not even funny. And given all the misinformation about mages out there, they'll probably be highly suspicious.

Sgt Kylon thinks I'm awsome

One man in Denerim, even if he is the smartest.

Mustered an army to take on the darkspawn

All they know is you called on treaties. If it hadn't been for the huge problems they were all facing it would have been a job any idiot could do.

Helped a bunch of nobles just before the landsmeet

Yes, you found Oswyn and Alfstanna's brother when you slaughtered your way through Howe's estate. They get it: you solve your problems by killing lots of people. In what way would this qualify you to rule?

Took out Howe - whom they all hated, took out Ser Cauthrian, just took out the great general Loghain and have his assasin working for me - anyone with a beef with me will think twice about saying anything. Also took a few waves of guards on the streets of Denirum, and killed all of the guards in Ft. Drakon

We get that you can fight. Good for you. Being King or Queen involves very little actual fghting on the part of the monarch unless they ride until battle at the front. How does killing these people prove you're a capable ruler? 

-Annora not being able to controll Howe & Log because she had a knife to her throat?
A good leader needs to be able to controll her army. This just proves she has no controll over them. This kind of stuff wouldn't be happening under my command.

Because you'll kill them? Then put Alistair on the throne or marry Anora off to him or yourself. Loghain was regent. Anora had no power to stop him because she was still Queen Consort and he has more power. It's not until she becomes regent in her own right that she has the power she needs to deal with things like that. Anora's weak point has always been her father anyway and after the Landsmeet he's successfully neutralized one way or another.

-My point about MPC + Anora, Anora dies - what happens then?
If you say that a lansdsmeet will be called, and maybe maybe not he will continue as king - that demonstates my point. The marriage to the monarch gives you no claim - you have to proove yourself worthy.

You do have a claim through marriage and can use that claim to make a bid for the throne at the Landsmeet...which is exactly what Anora does. Claim does not equal automatic inheritance and even Cailan had to be confirmed by a Landsmeet. That's just how Ferelden politics work.

[Sarah1281]

Im pretty sure i rember darrien even comments that he heard you were going to mostl likely get the teyrn instead of fergus.

Not only is he totally flattering you because he wants to get laid but it's just a rumor because Bryce apparently hasn't outright declared one of you the heir. And who knows? Maybe Fergus is just really bad at that kind of thing. That doesn't make you better than Alistair or Anora.

Even tho you didn't get to run highever it can be reasonably assumed that you were well educated in all the arts of rulling and dealing with ecomoics.

Because you were the Teyrn's daughter? So was Anora. AND as she was betrothed to Cailan since they were children she knew she'd be Queen and likely had more instruction to deal with that.

Now alistairs blood line if legit is the strongest claim, but its never been formally acknowlaged before this. He could be dismissed as not a true son of maric.

Not with Eamon's support he can't.

He also could of supported you before hand so it would only be you and anora vying for the throne. In a blight and a civil war you deffinantly are the better choice.

Just becaue game mechanics make you do everything yourself does not mean that's how being a King or Queen really works and you're assuming everyone's going to indulge your desire for the throne when there are already two competing factions (Alistair vs. Anora) and the last thing they want is someone else with a claim. Alistair's support means nothing. If he's confirmed by the Landsmeet he's King. If not he's a bastard son of an old King. Eamon's support matters but he would not support your stomping all over tradtion for your own glory.