261 réponses à ce sujet

[westiex9]

pfft why worry about ruling alone just marry an unhardened alistair and rule as his equal hehe!

[Bratt1204]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Because you have the same problem Eamon does: you'd just look like you'd be trying to take advantage of Cailan's death and the civil war to gain more power. Anora has a claim to the throne because Cailan had no heir and she's been ruling in Cailan's stead at least when he was off to war and probably more often for the last five years. Alistair is a Theirin, the last (maybe. Maric really seemed to get around) of the line that united Ferelden and a big part of their national identity. The Theirin line is what helped hold the rebellion together under Moira and later Maric's banner. Since Eamon is backing Alistair is strengthes his claim and he is the only one who can really challenge is but even then it could go either way so the final decision is yours.

And Anora does so have noble blood. Her father was a Teyrn and that makes her legally nobly born. That the other nobles look down on new blood does not change the fact she had the same status as you did prior to marrying Cailan and becoming Queen.

Because Anora has rights as the Queen Regent

Anora was Queen Consort to Cailan's King Regent. If she were Queen Regent Loghain's regency and the Landsmeet would have been unnecessary.

You are not correct in saying Anora has rights to take the Throne being Cailin's wife, that is not correct. A Queen/Princess consort does not inherit the Throne upon her husband, the King's, death. She can, if the King named her his successor should he die but it does not make her Queen regnant by any means simply due to the passing of her husband. I also agree,  a male Cousland, especially Fergus,  has far more right to the Throne (after Alistair of course) than does Anora (who has none, really). Loghain was simply trying to seize the Throne for himself via Anora, neither has any true right to it. 

Edit: Loghain was only recently given the title of Teyrn by King Maric. The Cousland's have been the most powerful Noble family of Ferelden for hundreds of years; their claim to the Throne is the strongest by far. 

Modifié par Bratt1204, 24 avril 2010 - 12:39 .

[rak72]

What has the PC done to prove themselves? They spent the last year getting allies support against the Blight. In theory,yea, all that was SUPPOSE to be involved with that is knocking on doors and saying - hey I got this paper, you need to give me your army. But in practice it required alot of pollitical and military wrangling, and cleaning up team Log/Annora's mess. It would becomes PCs job to prove that to the LM.



And the nobles might be all "Logain or hero, our great general" to his face, but I think the traditional nobles would regard him as the Great Gadsby of Fereldan. I have no doubt that alot or support could be gathered for old blood Cousland over new blood, farmer's daughter, Annora.



And like Bratt said above - she didn't inherit the title from Cailin. When Queen Elizabeth dies, Prince Philip will not become King

[Bratt1204]

Valentia X wrote...

Because Anora has rights as the Queen Regent, and she has popularity on her side as well. Just because you're a Cousland and your dad was popular doesn't mean that popularity transfers over to you. Alistair and Anora's 'right' to the throne trumps yours by a wide margin.

Anora has no 'rights' to the Throne, what-so-ever.

[westiex9]

rak72 wrote...

And like Bratt said above - she didn't inherit the title from Cailin. When Queen Elizabeth dies, Prince Philip will not become King

And thank the maker for that too! the last thing my failing motherland needs is a racist angry greek lunatic spouting rubbish from a fancy chair lol!

On a more relevant note i agree anora has no claim to the throne at all, I think the warden has a far better case i mean you are the scion of the most powerful and honored family in all ferelden after the royal line, And with only Marics Bastar d and Anora as challengers in theory you could stake a claim, That said i prefer to rule with alistair, it gets aweful lonely at the top.

[Menthi44]

Well she already has the throne thanks to her father, though she wasn't sworn in and all that nonsense. She and her father were merely challenged at the landsmeet; if nothing happened, she would have kept the throne.

[Herr Uhl]

Remember that the nobles wouldn't even consider changing Anora out if it wasn't because of the royal blood in Alastair. It is you who need to prove your case, not her.



Why would all of the nobles appoint a GW that should have no claim to anything to the throne? Fergus maybe, but you officially resigned from nobility when you joined the wardens. Alastair is the last known Thehirin, that is why they'd make an exception.

[Bratt1204]

rak72 wrote...

What has the PC done to prove themselves? They spent the last year getting allies support against the Blight. In theory,yea, all that was SUPPOSE to be involved with that is knocking on doors and saying - hey I got this paper, you need to give me your army. But in practice it required alot of pollitical and military wrangling, and cleaning up team Log/Annora's mess. It would becomes PCs job to prove that to the LM.

And the nobles might be all "Logain or hero, our great general" to his face, but I think the traditional nobles would regard him as the Great Gadsby of Fereldan. I have no doubt that alot or support could be gathered for old blood Cousland over new blood, farmer's daughter, Annora.

And like Bratt said above - she didn't inherit the title from Cailin. When Queen Elizabeth dies, Prince Philip will not become King

The rights of succession in a Monarchy (and that varies depending on the type of Monarchy recognized) are not a popularity contest. . One can try to seize a Throne, of course which Loghain is trying to do via Anora but they do not have any right to the Throne.

You have people here debating on topics they know nothing about.

[westiex9]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Why would all of the nobles appoint a GW that should have no claim to anything to the throne? Fergus maybe, but you officially resigned from nobility when you joined the wardens. Alastair is the last known Thehirin, that is why they'd make an exception.

I don't remember signing any contract saying i forsook my titles and none of my characters be they Aeducan or Cousland really care what a few distant wardens in the Anderfels think, they were born noble and they will damn well die noble too! even their funeral caterers will be noble!!!

Errr...anyway....You are correct in theory, but honestly i don't think the warden issue is a major one, im sure the nobles would be fine with any king provided they were competant. However the whole Landsmeet is highly irregular, War heroes,Regent Queens and Wardens all vying for the throne is pretty out of the ordinary.

I would also like to point out that many nobles will disregard the ideas of the Wardens if they have to choose between a grey warden and a tyrant, Case of point:Arlessa Drydens attempted coup.

Modifié par westiex9, 24 avril 2010 - 01:03 .

[Bratt1204]

rak72 wrote...

Alistair trumphs Cousland by miles, but queen consort have no claim. Cousland noble blood should definatly trumph that

Correct.

Succession as I see it currently:

1. Alistair
2. Eldest Male Cousland - Fergus
3. Younger Male/Female Cousland- Fergus having no living children

Again - there is documentation on what type of Monarchy is recognized in Ferelden currently.

[Bratt1204]

westiex9 wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Why would all of the nobles appoint a GW that should have no claim to anything to the throne? Fergus maybe, but you officially resigned from nobility when you joined the wardens. Alastair is the last known Thehirin, that is why they'd make an exception.

I don't remember signing any contract saying i forsook my titles and none of my characters be they Aeducan or Cousland really care what a few distant wardens in the Anderfels think, they were born noble and they will damn well die noble too! even their funeral caterers will be noble!!!

Errr...anyway....You are correct in theory, but to be honestly i don't think the warden issue is a major one, im sure the nobles would be fine with any king provided they were competant. However the whole Landsmeet is highly irregular, War heroes,Regent Queens and Wardens all vying for the throne is pretty out of the ordinary.

I would also like to point out that many nobles will disregard the ideas of the Wardens if they have to choose between a grey warden and a tyrant, Case of point:Arlessa Drydens attempted coup.

I missed that too.

Modifié par Bratt1204, 24 avril 2010 - 01:03 .

[rak72]

Menthi44 wrote...

Well she already has the throne thanks to her father, though she wasn't sworn in and all that nonsense. She and her father were merely challenged at the landsmeet; if nothing happened, she would have kept the throne.

Until the PC came along, there was no one who could do anything about her power grab.  Now she should have to present her case with everyone else. 

[Bratt1204]

rak72 wrote...

Menthi44 wrote...

Well she already has the throne thanks to her father, though she wasn't sworn in and all that nonsense. She and her father were merely challenged at the landsmeet; if nothing happened, she would have kept the throne.

Until the PC came along, there was no one who could do anything about her power grab.  Now she should have to present her case with everyone else. 

Eamon is the only one with a real army left in Ferelden and he would  have undoubtedly apposed Loghain's attempt at seizing the Throne via Anora (causing a civil war) if the PC Warden had not come along. I would have executed both Loghain and Anora immediately after the Landsmeet.

[westiex9]

Bratt1204 wrote...

rak72 wrote...

Menthi44 wrote...

Well she already has the throne thanks to her father, though she wasn't sworn in and all that nonsense. She and her father were merely challenged at the landsmeet; if nothing happened, she would have kept the throne.

Until the PC came along, there was no one who could do anything about her power grab.  Now she should have to present her case with everyone else. 

Eamon is the only one with a real army left in Ferelden and he would  have undoubtedly apposed Loghain's attempt at seizing the Throne via Anora (causing a civil war) if the PC Warden had not come along. I would have executed both Loghain and Anora immediately after the Landsmeet.

I like your style!!!  I would have personally executed Anora to prevent any future issues but unfortunatley alistair got to make that choice.

[rak72]

Bratt1204 wrote...

rak72 wrote...

Menthi44 wrote...

Well she already has the throne thanks to her father, though she wasn't sworn in and all that nonsense. She and her father were merely challenged at the landsmeet; if nothing happened, she would have kept the throne.

Until the PC came along, there was no one who could do anything about her power grab.  Now she should have to present her case with everyone else. 

Eamon is the only one with a real army left in Ferelden and he would  have undoubtedly apposed Loghain's attempt at seizing the Throne via Anora (causing a civil war) if the PC Warden had not come along. I would have executed both Loghain and Anora immediately after the Landsmeet.

Plus Log had Eamon poisoned, had the PC not come along - he would still be comatose.  Like I said before - if Annora con't controll her own advisors, how can she be trusted to controll Fereldan.

[Bratt1204]

rak72 wrote...

Bratt1204 wrote...

rak72 wrote...

Menthi44 wrote...

Well she already has the throne thanks to her father, though she wasn't sworn in and all that nonsense. She and her father were merely challenged at the landsmeet; if nothing happened, she would have kept the throne.

Until the PC came along, there was no one who could do anything about her power grab.  Now she should have to present her case with everyone else. 

Eamon is the only one with a real army left in Ferelden and he would  have undoubtedly apposed Loghain's attempt at seizing the Throne via Anora (causing a civil war) if the PC Warden had not come along. I would have executed both Loghain and Anora immediately after the Landsmeet.

Plus Log had Eamon poisoned, had the PC not come along - he would still be comatose.  Like I said before - if Annora con't controll her own advisors, how can she be trusted to controll Fereldan.

Yes, true. 

I would never allow Anora to rule Ferelden - she cannot and should not be trusted.

I call for an Anora execution Mod 

[rak72]

Bratt1204 wrote...
[I call for an Anora execution Mod 

I concur - OFF WITH HER HEAD!!!

[ArcanistLibram]

The Cousland PC has a hierarchical claim but no Fereldan army to back it up, Alistair has a blood claim, Anora has a claim through competence and marriage. So all their claims are pretty much crap. Without putting any two of the claims together, the throne's inheritance is really wobbly.



If the Cousland PC supports or marries Anora or Alistair, then it becomes a solid claim.

[westiex9]

ArcanistLibram wrote...

 Anora has a claim through competence and marriage.

Anora is a Glorified Clerk and Chattel nothing more, she has kept the economy moving true enough but my cousland pc has solved dwarven power struggles,fought abominations and gathered a cadre of nobles to side with her. Who is better suited to rule a kingdom like ferelden a high minded accountant whose only claim to fame is being married off to cailan or a warrior Queen who will crush fereldens enemies and usher in a new era of political power for the nation! 

And thats my cousland claim speech, so can i haz throne?

Landsmeet nobles:  NO!!!! 

Landsmeet leader: we've already selected a new ruler better then all these aweful choices....step forth KING TEAGAN!!!!!

Modifié par westiex9, 24 avril 2010 - 03:22 .

[Sarah1281]

You are not correct in saying Anora has rights to take the Throne being Cailin's wife, that is not correct. A Queen/Princess consort does not inherit the Throne upon her husband, the King's, death. She can, if the King named her his successor should he die but it does not make her Queen regnant by any means simply due to the passing of her husband.

I didn't say she had a right to the throne. I said that was what her claim was based on. She basically said 'There's no one else to take the throne and I've been here and doing well for five years.' She needed a Landsmeet to become regent. If you'll notice, the section you highlighted said that she had a CLAIM to the throne. Claim, of course, meaning the case she wants to put before the Landsmeet. The whole reason they are in the mess they are is because Cailan had no heirs so NO ONE had a 'right' to the throne. Anora could make a case for her, as Queen Consort, becomig the next ruler and Alistair could make his case as the bastard brother of Cailan. If either of them had a 'right' to it th nobles wouldn't have needed you to pick someone.

What has the PC done to prove themselves? They spent the last year getting allies support against the Blight. In theory,yea, all that was SUPPOSE to be involved with that is knocking on doors and saying - hey I got this paper, you need to give me your army. But in practice it required alot of pollitical and military wrangling, and cleaning up team Log/Annora's mess. It would becomes PCs job to prove that to the LM.

And I'm sure Loghain would have mentioned that you're ability to kill a lot of abominations, werewolves, and darkspawn/thaig crawlers were very impressive but you still haven't said anything about why you're more qualified than Anora. Just because you and a few other more conservative quarters might think Anora shouldn't be Queen because she's new nobility does not mean she isn't noble enough for the job. If she weren't the Landsmeet wouldn't have allowe her to become Queen Consort, after all, much like no non-HNF origin can. For those who insist on blood, Alistair has a stronger claim.



Convincing Alistair not to press his claim means that you have no case and no Landsmeet. The Landsmeet is called to deal with Alistair's claim, after all, and without that Eamon and everyone else just has to fall in line behind Anora.

Succession as I see it currently:



1. Alistair

2. Eldest Male Cousland - Fergus

3. Younger Male/Female Cousland- Fergus having no living children

There is no way that Ferelden has a documented line of succession. If they did then there would be a candidate behind the presumably dead Fergus and Cousland PC. Anora, perhaps? Either way, that whole disaster with the regency would not have happened.

I would have executed both Loghain and Anora immediately after the Landsmeet.

Sure he would have opposed it...had he not been poisoned at the time. Once Loghain had been regent for months and the situation was dire the only real chance he has to remove Loghain from power is Alistair. Executing Anora when Alistair AND the Cousland PC could get themselves killed fighting the Blight and Fergus is still supposedly dead would have been extremely foolish.

Plus Log had Eamon poisoned, had the PC not come along - he would still be comatose. Like I said before - if Annora con't controll her own advisors, how can she be trusted to controll Fereldan.

Please try to keep in mind that her name is Anora with one N not Annora with two N's. And how was she supposed to control Loghain? He wasn't her advisor, he was the regent to her consort. That mean that Anora still has power but he gets to overrule her.

[Herr Uhl]

westiex9 wrote...

I don't remember signing any contract saying i forsook my titles and none of my characters be they Aeducan or Cousland really care what a few distant wardens in the Anderfels think, they were born noble and they will damn well die noble too! even their funeral caterers will be noble!!!

Errr...anyway....You are correct in theory, but honestly i don't think the warden issue is a major one, im sure the nobles would be fine with any king provided they were competant. However the whole Landsmeet is highly irregular, War heroes,Regent Queens and Wardens all vying for the throne is pretty out of the ordinary.

I would also like to point out that many nobles will disregard the ideas of the Wardens if they have to choose between a grey warden and a tyrant, Case of point:Arlessa Drydens attempted coup.

The below is if we disregard what Duncan told us about leaving our old life behind etc. etc:

It's not what the Anderfellians (or whatever they are called) would think, there the Wardens pretty much runs the whole country. As a warden, you do however answer to the First Warden, and that would be unfortunate in a ruler. And if the Cousland would not listen to the first warden, he/she would be a traitor to their order. And would the nobility want a common traitor to be their ruler? Do you not see the problem in this?

And I still stress the point that the nobility likes Anora, they dislike Loghain. If you see Anora as the Antichrist or not is besides the point, they see her as a competent ruler.

[Sarah1281]

westiex9 wrote...

ArcanistLibram wrote...

 Anora has a claim through competence and marriage.

Anora is a Glorified Clerk and Chattel nothing more, she has kept the economy moving true enough but my cousland pc has solved dwarven power struggles,fought abominations and gathered a cadre of nobles to side with her. Who is better suited to rule a kingdom like ferelden a high minded accountant whose only claim to fame is being married off to cailan or a warrior Queen who will crush fereldens enemies and usher in a new era of political power for the nation! 

And thats my cousland claim speech, so can i haz throne?

Landsmeet nobles:  NO!!!! 

Landsmeet leader: we've already selected a new ruler better then all these aweful choices....step forth KING TEAGAN!!!!!

So you're saying that Anora having been the Queen already and acting as if she were regent because Cailan couldn't be bothered makes her less qualified than your accomplishments that no one gets to see or really hear about? The Theirins are the royal family not the Couslands. Alistair's status as bastard is why his claim is tenuous. If no Theirin is left and Alistair is unrecognzed then a new royal line does need to be founded but we have no reason to beleve that - people thinking Cailan was so inept they wanted Bryce instead notwithstanding - the Couslands are automatically next in line. Sure they'd have a claim but the last thing that situation needs is another power-hungry self-important noble trying to steal the throne.

[westiex9]

Herr Uhl wrote...

westiex9 wrote...

I don't remember signing any contract saying i forsook my titles and none of my characters be they Aeducan or Cousland really care what a few distant wardens in the Anderfels think, they were born noble and they will damn well die noble too! even their funeral caterers will be noble!!!

Errr...anyway....You are correct in theory, but honestly i don't think the warden issue is a major one, im sure the nobles would be fine with any king provided they were competant. However the whole Landsmeet is highly irregular, War heroes,Regent Queens and Wardens all vying for the throne is pretty out of the ordinary.

I would also like to point out that many nobles will disregard the ideas of the Wardens if they have to choose between a grey warden and a tyrant, Case of point:Arlessa Drydens attempted coup.

The below is if we disregard what Duncan told us about leaving our old life behind etc. etc:

It's not what the Anderfellians (or whatever they are called) would think, there the Wardens pretty much runs the whole country. As a warden, you do however answer to the First Warden, and that would be unfortunate in a ruler. And if the Cousland would not listen to the first warden, he/she would be a traitor to their order. And would the nobility want a common traitor to be their ruler? Do you not see the problem in this?

And I still stress the point that the nobility likes Anora, they dislike Loghain. If you see Anora as the Antichrist or not is besides the point, they see her as a competent ruler.

Once again why would a member of fereldens nobility care if i have a cushy relationship with the first warden or  not?  They would have no indication of this at the landsmeet due to the communications being cut and by the time the cousland is co-ruling with alistair they would have little chance to do anything about it.

By the time the cousland rules with alistair The first warden would be an utter fool to get heavy handed given his order's history of being kicked out 200 years prior, He would have to suck it up and deal with it. The nobility of ferelden don't care about how the wardens former master views them, they are more interested in a pair of rulers who can keep foreign invasion at bay and keep politics stable.

Anora is the sensible candidate but i don't think ferelden needs a clerk running things when we can usher in an age of legendary Warden rulers.As for how i view anora depends heavily on my origin, Male noble....shes a crucical ally, female a rival who must be destroyed and any other origin she is once again crucial to my victory. 

Its nothing personal i just want that throne and alistair badly enough to be willing to annihilate her and anyone else in my path. 

[Bl1nder]

Anora has zero claim to anything really. In DA:O shes hanging on the throne by the skin of her teeth, which is why she needs your support. Many of the nobles do not accept her because she has no royal blood in her. Withouth your support her days on the trone are numbered, so I would say Cousland has a pretty strong claim all things considered.

Even then however I don't see why the PC would want to shackle him/herself with a nation to rule.

[westiex9]

Sarah1281 wrote...

westiex9 wrote...

ArcanistLibram wrote...

 Anora has a claim through competence and marriage.

Anora is a Glorified Clerk and Chattel nothing more, she has kept the economy moving true enough but my cousland pc has solved dwarven power struggles,fought abominations and gathered a cadre of nobles to side with her. Who is better suited to rule a kingdom like ferelden a high minded accountant whose only claim to fame is being married off to cailan or a warrior Queen who will crush fereldens enemies and usher in a new era of political power for the nation! 

And thats my cousland claim speech, so can i haz throne?

Landsmeet nobles:  NO!!!! 

Landsmeet leader: we've already selected a new ruler better then all these aweful choices....step forth KING TEAGAN!!!!!

So you're saying that Anora having been the Queen already and acting as if she were regent because Cailan couldn't be bothered makes her less qualified than your accomplishments that no one gets to see or really hear about? The Theirins are the royal family not the Couslands. Alistair's status as bastard is why his claim is tenuous. If no Theirin is left and Alistair is unrecognzed then a new royal line does need to be founded but we have no reason to beleve that - people thinking Cailan was so inept they wanted Bryce instead notwithstanding - the Couslands are automatically next in line. Sure they'd have a claim but the last thing that situation needs is another power-hungry self-important noble trying to steal the throne.

Yep exactly she is far less qualified, My human noble female is just  a better politician and soldier and thus i will use every means at my disposal to give ferelden a decent ruler. As for power hungry dead on but that doesn't change the fact that the PC is essentially more skilled in various situations then anora. That Throne is mine by right of natural selection and in such an arena anora will not defeat me.

As for the Theirins being the royal family i am not suggesting they should not continue to be, having alistair take the throne unhardened is Perfect for my plans 

Ferelden gets another weak king figure head ala Maric,cailan and it gets another true power ala Loghain, anora. The theirins are the gateway to the throne so its a wonderful coincidence the last of that line happens to share a bed with the human noble

Modifié par westiex9, 24 avril 2010 - 03:47 .