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Couslan's right to the throne


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#101
Sarah1281

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Its nothing personal i just want that throne and alistair badly enough to be willing to annihilate her and anyone else in my path.

You know, aside from the wanting Alistair bit that sounds a lot like Anora. And Howe for that matter.



Once again why would a member of fereldens nobility care if i have a cushy relationship with the first warden or not? They would have no indication of this at the landsmeet due to the communications being cut and by the time the cousland is co-ruling with alistair they would have little chance to do anything about it.

People are always suspicious when those in charge might be taking orders from others. Remember all the panic that JFK would be the puppet through which the Pope ruled America? And I don't think they'd be as afraid of the First Warden as they would be of the Orlesians. Fereldens seem to consider Wardens an Orlesian Order as Weisshaupt is thousands of miles away and Orlais is right there and the order returned twenty years ago from there. It could be solved by officiall resigning from the Wardens (regardless of if you can actually stop being one it would make people feel better) but they'd still wonder.



Anora is the sensible candidate but i don't think ferelden needs a clerk running things when we can usher in an age of legendary Warden rulers.

Okay, aside from the fact you are more skilled at killing things than Anora, why would her rule just be being a clerk and you would be a legendary ruler? Even if you took it upon yourself to single-handedly wipe out Ferelden's dragon population that wouldn't make you a better ruler. I don't understand why you're being do dismissive of Anora's ruling. I know you don't want her on the throne but what's the basis for you to dismiss her as a mere clerk?

#102
Sarah1281

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Anora has zero claim to anything really. In DA:O shes hanging on the throne by the skin of her teeth, which is why she needs your support. Many of the nobles do not accept her because she has no royal blood in her. Withouth your support her days on the trone are numbered, so I would say Cousland has a pretty strong claim all things considered.

When do we hear this? At the Tavern when you first arrive everyone says that Anora's doing great and Loghain is helping her pick up the slack. Blood is clearly not as important to everyone as it is to Eamon, who is referred to as very conservative.



Yep exactly she is far less qualified, My human noble female is just a better politician and soldier and thus i will use every means at my disposal to give ferelden a decent ruler. As for power hungry dead on but that doesn't change the fact that the PC is essentially more skilled in various situations then anora. That Throne is mine by right of natural selection and in such an arena anora will not defeat me.

Again, the ability to kill things does not make you a better ruler than Anora. Why are you one? Because your character is simply the most awesome person who ever lived? The only politics you're involved in until the Landsmeet is in Orzammar where your job is basically killing things (or finding people and showing them things, breaking and entering, and telling someone that someone lied to them). Very little actual politics on your end. At the end when you have Branka or Caridin's crown they are willing to accept (well, Harrowmont is) your word about the Paragon's word. You're not exactly required to be a master politician here. You can't say that Anora ruling the country for five years doesn't prove her an experienced politician because that's five years of experience right there.

#103
rak72

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I misspelled Anora's name - I withdraw my candidacy

#104
rak72

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BTW PC did a lot more than just "kill things" to get to this point

#105
Herr Uhl

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westiex9 wrote...

Once again why would a member of fereldens nobility care if i have a cushy relationship with the first warden or  not?  They would have no indication of this at the landsmeet due to the communications being cut and by the time the cousland is co-ruling with alistair they would have little chance to do anything about it.

By the time the cousland rules with alistair The first warden would be an utter fool to get heavy handed given his order's history of being kicked out 200 years prior, He would have to suck it up and deal with it. The nobility of ferelden don't care about how the wardens former master views them, they are more interested in a pair of rulers who can keep foreign invasion at bay and keep politics stable.


So they wouldn't care about the warden deserting an millennia-old well respected order? I reckon that they would, but I'm probably wrong.

The point is that it isn't good to have a ruler that is someone else's subordinate. So, there is two outcomes, have an deserter as ruler or have someone that is the puppet of some dude in Weisshaupt. I think that even the nobles can deduce that far.

#106
Sarah1281

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rak72 wrote...

I misspelled Anora's name - I withdraw my candidacy BTW PC did a lot more than just "kill things" to get to this point

I know it's a minor thing but it's been every time you've used her name the entire thread so it's a little annoying. And basically all of your problems have been solved by finding the right people to kill and proceeding to do so. It's a bit more complicted then that but if you break it down that's exactly what happened. And there's really nothing political about killing tons of people.

#107
westiex9

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Sarah1281 wrote...






Its nothing personal i just want that throne and alistair badly enough to be willing to annihilate her and anyone else in my path.

You know, aside from the wanting Alistair bit that sounds a lot like Anora. And Howe for that matter.






Once again why would a member of fereldens nobility care if i have a cushy relationship with the first warden or not? They would have no indication of this at the landsmeet due to the communications being cut and by the time the cousland is co-ruling with alistair they would have little chance to do anything about it.

People are always suspicious when those in charge might be taking orders from others. Remember all the panic that JFK would be the puppet through which the Pope ruled America? And I don't think they'd be as afraid of the First Warden as they would be of the Orlesians. Fereldens seem to consider Wardens an Orlesian Order as Weisshaupt is thousands of miles away and Orlais is right there and the order returned twenty years ago from there. It could be solved by officiall resigning from the Wardens (regardless of if you can actually stop being one it would make people feel better) but they'd still wonder.






Anora is the sensible candidate but i don't think ferelden needs a clerk running things when we can usher in an age of legendary Warden rulers.

Okay, aside from the fact you are more skilled at killing things than Anora, why would her rule just be being a clerk and you would be a legendary ruler? Even if you took it upon yourself to single-handedly wipe out Ferelden's dragon population that wouldn't make you a better ruler. I don't understand why you're being do dismissive of Anora's ruling. I know you don't want her on the throne but what's the basis for you to dismiss her as a mere clerk?



1. Anora,Howe,Loghain or Fiona politics is a dirty world and only the clever and the fiendish win

2.Clever handling of the situation would avert this issue, bear in mind ive ended a blight, people are big on the whole hero worship in ferelden.The first warden does not have much authority in ferelden and by all accounts is too busy running his own little kingdom up north. As long as the  warden rules a nation the FW  has to be very careful, more careful then the warden has to be towards him, If he tries to order a nation around just imagine what the other states would do i can't imagine it ending well for him,and like i say i really don't think the first warden cares much for other nations affairs.

3. now we come to the question i need to clarify because you've fairly pointed out i focused on the melee side of things so:

Political skills which prove my cousland warden's superior skill in politics:

1.Successfully navigating dwarven politics is a major factor, you have to be very good at the great game to choose a strong candidate in orzammar.

2.  Being a General of large armies does have some political traits to it as well, the warden takes all of the factions in ferelden and organises them into a fighting force. In ferelden the nobles are kept in line by  a mixture of politics and might and organisational skills are vital to keep a kingdom running smoothly. The warden has spent time managing many diverse peoples and groups that is the definition of politics.

3.Lets not forget that being raised as a child of Bryce Cousland makes you a Born politician assuming your character payed attention to events in highever.

4.I can't fault anora as manipulative or cold those are vital to politics, but i don't think she has what it takes to handle fereldens rougher politics and she mismanages several affairs if you select her as sole ruler: the Orlesian embassy debacle and the alienage politics being major ones. Anora has been raised in a court and has not seen some of the places her people live, a ruler who has seen the alienage will have more understanding of the how the lower classes live.

5. I managed to convince the majority of nobility in the nation Including every major arling and bannorn and the grand cleric of the chantry to side against the queen of ferelden and her war hero father, how much more brilliant can you get!(gotta love persuasion)

Modifié par westiex9, 24 avril 2010 - 04:27 .


#108
Sarah1281

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1.Successfully navigating dwarven politics is a major factor, you have to be very good at the great game to choose a strong candidate in orzammar.

You don't have to be at all qualified, really. You just pick one or the other without really knowing much about them if you aren't a dwarf and don't listen really closely and read between the lines. To even get an audience you basically have to run down to a tavern to show Helmi some papers and then run down to the Aeducan Thaig to show Dace the same ones or win a Proving and possibly steal back some letters and tell someone that Dulin doesn't think Harrowmont's giving in. That's really not very political and any skilled thug could manage. Then you have to wipe out the carta. The DC already did that once back when they were just a skilled thug. Oghren and Bhelen/Harrowmont's men have found Branka so you have to kill your way to her, kill some golems, then kill either Caridin or Branka herself and due to the reverence dwarves give Paragons you've crowned a King (but you might need to kill Bhelen and half the Assembly first). That's hardly any great political manuevering on your part. Yes you could take the time to try to truly understand the situation (but remember you know nothing about dwarven politics w/out metagaming except that it's brutal) but that's hardly a requirement to get the job done.



Being a General of large armies does have some political traits to it as well, the warden takes all of the factions in ferelden and organises them into a fighting force.

But you're not appointed general until AFTER the Landsmeet and by whoever is already slated to get the throne. Duncan thinks to get the treaties and you just show up and demand that people follow them which, after you kill enough inconvenient people for them, they do. An understanding of politics is not required for this as anyone from a human-hating 'let's just get this over with' Dalish to a 'I'm just going to kill things and hope that works' Casteless can do the same.



Lets not forget that being raised as a child of Bryce Cousland makes you a Born politician assuming your character payed attention to events in highever.

Anora has been slate to become the Queen since Cailan was born so she was raised for the express purpose of ruling so her education is better in this regard.



4.I can't fault anora as manipulative or cold those are vital to politics, but i don't think she has what it takes to handle fereldens rougher politics and she mismanages several affairs if you select her as sole ruler: the Orlesian embassy debacle and the alienage politics being major ones

Orlesian embassy debacle? You mean the statue of Loghain? I don't remember that causing problems. Does it say that it did? And the alienage situation was handled just fine. Anora used them as scapegoats when she was having problems with food. It's not a nice thing to do and she's not personable but it was effective in getting people focused off of whatever she didn't want them dealing with. Additionally, since Anora's rule is shown by the long-term effects and Alistair's is just shown as 'people love him, he either takes his job seriously or keeps leaving court, and he appoints an elf to his cabinet' that's far more short-term and who is to say he doesn't also encounter food shortages? Anora isn't very personable, it's true, which is why she's more effective with a more personable husband like Alistair or a HNM. It's hardly a fatal flaw, though.



5. I managed to convince the majority of nobility in the nation Including every major arling and bannorn and the grand cleric of the chantry to side against the queen of ferelden and her war hero father, how much more brilliant can you get!(gotta love persuasion)

They are only siding against Anora if she comes out in support of her father. She automtically carries three votes with her, you know, which is a good deal of the votes in-game. And even that isn't so much brilliant political strategy on your part so much as 'hey I killed a bunch of people at Howe's estate and you would not believe what we found there.'



You seem to forget that going to Howe's estate and killing Howe to weaken Loghain's influence was Anora's idea when she pretends she was in need of rescuing. Finding Oswyn and Alfstanna's brother - as well as Riordan - would not have happened if you hadn't followed her plan. Without Anora you wouldn't have known to go to the Alienage, either. So really it's not YOU managed to turn everyone against Loghain, it's Anora uses you to do it. Sure she can betray you and side with Loghain after all but that's only if you admit you don't support her, never talk to her although she asks you to so she can assum you won't support her, or if you sound too bloodthirsty about her father and he's always her biggest weak point. The politics here is all Anora pointing you Howe's way and Howe is arrogant enough to keep his crimes on full display. If anything, that makes me more impressed by Anora then by the Warden for following the trail of bread crumbs.

#109
westiex9

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Its very easy to break down the game into go here kill this or speak to this person and do that, but if this were a real life scenario it would take tactical acumen, poltical savvy and sheer finesse to pull all the wardens quest off. The game can only show so much after all, As for the Cousland and Anora educations i suspect the cousland education would be equal if not better , loghain may be a great general but he is not much of a politican, growing up as Bryce couslands child to my mind sounds like a far better education.

Inevitably Dragon age is a personal game, i don't think the developers were willing to infringe on the story of the character ruling or no after the main game, with anora they can explain her outcome.

Modifié par westiex9, 24 avril 2010 - 04:43 .


#110
Raiil

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The Cousland PC shows no political acumen in the game that any other character origin is capable of showing. There are no dazzling displays of political finesse because you think your character is some sort of tactical superstar- the bottomline is that your PC, however intelligent, cunning, and awesome she may be, has nothing to show that. It may come about in time that you are that special and everyone finds this out, but short of meta-gaming knowledge, even your character can't know how much influence you'll ultimately wield in the end.





The Cousland has nothing to offer the Landsmeet except Alistair and proof that they're able to kill rather efficiently. Your bloodline is too weak to do anything besides augment a pre-existing claim, which you can do, or at best offer a weak distraction that only takes away from the Alistair claim, since he's half-blooded and your putting your claim up may diminish his.

#111
svenus97

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westiex9 wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Why would all of the nobles appoint a GW that should have no claim to anything to the throne? Fergus maybe, but you officially resigned from nobility when you joined the wardens. Alastair is the last known Thehirin, that is why they'd make an exception.


I don't remember signing any contract saying i forsook my titles and none of my characters be they Aeducan or Cousland really care what a few distant wardens in the Anderfels think, they were born noble and they will damn well die noble too! even their funeral caterers will be noble!!!

Errr...anyway....You are correct in theory, but honestly i don't think the warden issue is a major one, im sure the nobles would be fine with any king provided they were competant. However the whole Landsmeet is highly irregular, War heroes,Regent Queens and Wardens all vying for the throne is pretty out of the ordinary.

I would also like to point out that many nobles will disregard the ideas of the Wardens if they have to choose between a grey warden and a tyrant, Case of point:Arlessa Drydens attempted coup.


I'm pretty sure they don't give you an option to sign anything when getting exiled :P

#112
Sarah1281

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svenus97 wrote...
I'm pretty sure they don't give you an option to sign anything when getting exiled :P

Yeah, the DN's already no longer a noble but it's only temporary. Put Bhelen on the throne or wait until the coronation and that pesky legal status issu gets itself straightened out nicely.

#113
Bratt1204

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ArcanistLibram wrote...

The Cousland PC has a hierarchical claim but no Fereldan army to back it up, Alistair has a blood claim, Anora has a claim through competence and marriage
. So all their claims are pretty much crap. Without putting any two of the claims together, the throne's inheritance is really wobbly.

If the Cousland PC supports or marries Anora or Alistair, then it becomes a solid claim.


There is not claim through marriage, period. That is not how succession in a Monarchy works. She has shown no competency what-so-ever.

#114
Bratt1204

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Sarah1281 wrote...

You are not correct in saying Anora has rights to take the Throne being Cailin's wife, that is not correct. A Queen/Princess consort does not inherit the Throne upon her husband, the King's, death. She can, if the King named her his successor should he die but it does not make her Queen regnant by any means simply due to the passing of her husband.

I didn't say she had a right to the throne. I said that was what her claim was based on. She basically said 'There's no one else to take the throne and I've been here and doing well for five years.' She needed a Landsmeet to become regent. If you'll notice, the section you highlighted said that she had a CLAIM to the throne. Claim, of course, meaning the case she wants to put before the Landsmeet. The whole reason they are in the mess they are is because Cailan had no heirs so NO ONE had a 'right' to the throne. Anora could make a case for her, as Queen Consort, becomig the next ruler and Alistair could make his case as the bastard brother of Cailan. If either of them had a 'right' to it th nobles wouldn't have needed you to pick someone.

What has the PC done to prove themselves? They spent the last year getting allies support against the Blight. In theory,yea, all that was SUPPOSE to be involved with that is knocking on doors and saying - hey I got this paper, you need to give me your army. But in practice it required alot of pollitical and military wrangling, and cleaning up team Log/Annora's mess. It would becomes PCs job to prove that to the LM.

And I'm sure Loghain would have mentioned that you're ability to kill a lot of abominations, werewolves, and darkspawn/thaig crawlers were very impressive but you still haven't said anything about why you're more qualified than Anora. Just because you and a few other more conservative quarters might think Anora shouldn't be Queen because she's new nobility does not mean she isn't noble enough for the job. If she weren't the Landsmeet wouldn't have allowe her to become Queen Consort, after all, much like no non-HNF origin can. For those who insist on blood, Alistair has a stronger claim.

Convincing Alistair not to press his claim means that you have no case and no Landsmeet. The Landsmeet is called to deal with Alistair's claim, after all, and without that Eamon and everyone else just has to fall in line behind Anora.

Succession as I see it currently:

1. Alistair
2. Eldest Male Cousland - Fergus
3. Younger Male/Female Cousland- Fergus having no living children

There is no way that Ferelden has a documented line of succession. If they did then there would be a candidate behind the presumably dead Fergus and Cousland PC. Anora, perhaps? Either way, that whole disaster with the regency would not have happened.

I would have executed both Loghain and Anora immediately after the Landsmeet.

Sure he would have opposed it...had he not been poisoned at the time. Once Loghain had been regent for months and the situation was dire the only real chance he has to remove Loghain from power is Alistair. Executing Anora when Alistair AND the Cousland PC could get themselves killed fighting the Blight and Fergus is still supposedly dead would have been extremely foolish.

Plus Log had Eamon poisoned, had the PC not come along - he would still be comatose. Like I said before - if Annora con't controll her own advisors, how can she be trusted to controll Fereldan.

Please try to keep in mind that her name is Anora with one N not Annora with two N's. And how was she supposed to control Loghain? He wasn't her advisor, he was the regent to her consort. That mean that Anora still has power but he gets to overrule her.


If you are going to quote me, show all of my statement. I CLEARLY stated that there was no documentation of what form of Monarchy is recognized in Ferelden. So basically, you just paraphrased what I stated.

#115
Bratt1204

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Sarah1281 wrote...

westiex9 wrote...

ArcanistLibram wrote...

 Anora has a claim through competence and marriage.


Anora is a Glorified Clerk and Chattel nothing more, she has kept the economy moving true enough but my cousland pc has solved dwarven power struggles,fought abominations and gathered a cadre of nobles to side with her. Who is better suited to rule a kingdom like ferelden a high minded accountant whose only claim to fame is being married off to cailan or a warrior Queen who will crush fereldens enemies and usher in a new era of political power for the nation! 

And thats my cousland claim speech, so can i haz throne?

Landsmeet nobles:  NO!!!! 

Landsmeet leader: we've already selected a new ruler better then all these aweful choices....step forth KING TEAGAN!!!!!

So you're saying that Anora having been the Queen already and acting as if she were regent because Cailan couldn't be bothered makes her less qualified than your accomplishments that no one gets to see or really hear about? The Theirins are the royal family not the Couslands. Alistair's status as bastard is why his claim is tenuous. If no Theirin is left and Alistair is unrecognzed then a new royal line does need to be founded but we have no reason to beleve that - people thinking Cailan was so inept they wanted Bryce instead notwithstanding - the Couslands are automatically next in line. Sure they'd have a claim but the last thing that situation needs is another power-hungry self-important noble trying to steal the throne.


What part of Monarchy do you not understand? Perhaps you should educate yourself on what you are debating before you do so. A ruling Monarchy has nothing to do with popularity or how qualified someone is, clearly you have no idea what you're talking about. You clearly also do not understand how succession works.

Modifié par Bratt1204, 24 avril 2010 - 08:05 .


#116
TripLight

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Just thought I add this to the debate.

From the Dragon Age Wiki Entry of Ferelden
King/Queen

The king is the most powerful of the teyrns. Although Denerim
was originally the teyrnir of the king, it has since been reduced to an
arling, as the king’s domain is now all of Ferelden. However, even the
king’s power must come from the banns.
This is especially evident during the Landsmeet, an annual
council for which the nobles of Ferelden gather. It has been held for
almost three thousand years with only a few interruptions for Blights
and invasions. The sight of a king asking for, and working to win the
support of "lesser" men is a source of constant wonder to foreign
ambassadors.
A king or queen is referred to as "your Majesty", while a prince
or princess is called "your Highness."


Modifié par TripLight, 24 avril 2010 - 08:06 .


#117
Sarah1281

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If you are going to quote me, show all of my statement. I CLEARLY stated that there was no documentation of what form of Monarchy is recognized in Ferelden. So basically, you just paraphrased what I stated.

There's no need to get up in arms about it. Earlier you took my saying Anora has a claim to the throne through marriage to mean that Anora is the rightful ruler of Ferelden by virtue of being Cailan's widow when I didn't say that at all. Besides, what YOU said was actually 'Again - there is documentation on what type of Monarchy is recognized in Ferelden currently.'

And it doesn't matter what form of monarchy Ferelden has for the purposes of this discussion. If there is a line of succession then whoever is next gets the throne. Since Anora and Alistair with their shaky claims of marriage and being a bastard son are the two candidates put forth then that's clearly not the case. Anora is the daughter of a Teyrn and if there needs be a new line that qualifies her to be Queen regent just as it did Queen consort. Whether she should become Queen or not or if there is a better candidate out there does not mean that she isn't perfectly adequate for the position. The fact she's already on the throne and knows what she's doing might not necessarily a formal claim (although as Eamon does point out he and Teagan have a claim to the throne through Rowan's marriage to Maric it is apparently a legitimate claim to the Landsmeet regardless of how real monarchy works) but it's another point in her favor as she's not another untested King like Cailan was and Alistair will e.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 24 avril 2010 - 08:09 .


#118
Raiil

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Bratt1204 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

westiex9 wrote...

ArcanistLibram wrote...

 Anora has a claim through competence and marriage.


Anora is a Glorified Clerk and Chattel nothing more, she has kept the economy moving true enough but my cousland pc has solved dwarven power struggles,fought abominations and gathered a cadre of nobles to side with her. Who is better suited to rule a kingdom like ferelden a high minded accountant whose only claim to fame is being married off to cailan or a warrior Queen who will crush fereldens enemies and usher in a new era of political power for the nation! 

And thats my cousland claim speech, so can i haz throne?

Landsmeet nobles:  NO!!!! 

Landsmeet leader: we've already selected a new ruler better then all these aweful choices....step forth KING TEAGAN!!!!!

So you're saying that Anora having been the Queen already and acting as if she were regent because Cailan couldn't be bothered makes her less qualified than your accomplishments that no one gets to see or really hear about? The Theirins are the royal family not the Couslands. Alistair's status as bastard is why his claim is tenuous. If no Theirin is left and Alistair is unrecognzed then a new royal line does need to be founded but we have no reason to beleve that - people thinking Cailan was so inept they wanted Bryce instead notwithstanding - the Couslands are automatically next in line. Sure they'd have a claim but the last thing that situation needs is another power-hungry self-important noble trying to steal the throne.


What part of Monarchy do you not understand? Perhaps you should educate yourself on what you are debating before you do so. A ruling Monarchy has nothing to do with popularity or how qualified someone is, clearly you have not idea what you're talking about. You clearly also do not understand how succession works.


The succession in Ferelden does not work like medieval monarchies of ye olden tyme. Monarchs have to be settled on by the bannorn, because without their support there's no way in hell you're going to make it. Now, it's possible that most Landsmeets regarding crowning a king is basically a formality since everyone seems to be mostly fine with the continuing Calenhad rule. But in this case, it's not- there are two viable candidates, Anora and Alistair, and there's been a disruption in the succession. Do you know where your Cousland lands on that list as a viable candidate? No where. There is absolutely nothing, no precedent that we know of, wherein another noble simply pops up and puts themselves up for the throne. You have nothing to offer the people besides military expertise. You show no diplomatic skills, no special knowledge that you can impart, no obvious leadership skills and with your father's lands destroyed, you're at second child of a dead man who was once powerful.

#119
Bratt1204

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Sarah1281 wrote...

If you are going to quote me, show all of my statement. I CLEARLY stated that there was no documentation of what form of Monarchy is recognized in Ferelden. So basically, you just paraphrased what I stated.

There's no need to get up in arms about it. Earlier you took my saying Anora has a claim to the throne through marriage to mean that Anora is the rightful ruler of Ferelden by virtue of being Cailan's widow when I didn't say that at all. Besides, what YOU said was actually 'Again - there is documentation on what type of Monarchy is recognized in Ferelden currently.'

And it doesn't matter what form of monarchy Ferelden has for the purposes of this discussion. If there is a line of succession then whoever is next gets the throne. Since Anora and Alistair with their shaky claims of marriage and being a bastard son are the two candidates put forth then that's clearly not the case. Anora is the daughter of a Teyrn and if there needs be a new line that qualifies her to be Queen regent just as it did Queen consort. Whether she should become Queen or not or if there is a better candidate out there does not mean that she isn't perfectly adequate for the position. The fact she's already on the throne and knows what she's doing might not necessarily a formal claim (although as Eamon does point out he and Teagan have a claim to the throne through Rowan's marriage to Maric it is apparently a legitimate claim to the Landsmeet regardless of how real monarchy works) but it's another point in her favor as she's not another untested King like Cailan was and Alistair will e.


I am just repeating myself. You clearly have no idea how a Monarchy works and you simply do not understand how successions works. Anora has no right of succession to the Throne period; regardless of  how many times you say it, will not make it so. 

#120
Sarah1281

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I am just repeating myself. You clearly have no idea how a Monarchy works and you simply do not understand how successions works. Anora has no right of succession to the Throne period; regardless of how many times you say it, will not make it so.

I understand how succession works in real-life monarchies but since there is no line of succession in Ferelden or there would be no problems real-life laws of succession are not applicable here.

#121
Sarah1281

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I am just repeating myself. You clearly have no idea how a Monarchy works and you simply do not understand how successions works. Anora has no right of succession to the Throne period; regardless of how many times you say it, will not make it so.

I understand how succession works in real-life monarchies but since there is no line of succession in Ferelden or there would be no problems real-life laws of succession are not applicable here.

#122
Xandurpein

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Bratt1204 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...


If you are going to quote me, show all of my statement. I CLEARLY stated that there was no documentation of what form of Monarchy is recognized in Ferelden. So basically, you just paraphrased what I stated.

There's no need to get up in arms about it. Earlier you took my saying Anora has a claim to the throne through marriage to mean that Anora is the rightful ruler of Ferelden by virtue of being Cailan's widow when I didn't say that at all. Besides, what YOU said was actually 'Again - there is documentation on what type of Monarchy is recognized in Ferelden currently.'

And it doesn't matter what form of monarchy Ferelden has for the purposes of this discussion. If there is a line of succession then whoever is next gets the throne. Since Anora and Alistair with their shaky claims of marriage and being a bastard son are the two candidates put forth then that's clearly not the case. Anora is the daughter of a Teyrn and if there needs be a new line that qualifies her to be Queen regent just as it did Queen consort. Whether she should become Queen or not or if there is a better candidate out there does not mean that she isn't perfectly adequate for the position. The fact she's already on the throne and knows what she's doing might not necessarily a formal claim (although as Eamon does point out he and Teagan have a claim to the throne through Rowan's marriage to Maric it is apparently a legitimate claim to the Landsmeet regardless of how real monarchy works) but it's another point in her favor as she's not another untested King like Cailan was and Alistair will e.


I am just repeating myself. You clearly have no idea how a Monarchy works and you simply do not understand how successions works. Anora has no right of succession to the Throne period; regardless of  how many times you say it, will not make it so. 


Neither Alistair nor Anora have any claim at all legally. It all comes down to a political decision, that depends on the Bannorns (and the players) feelings. That is however just politics, and really don't have anything with the law to do.

#123
thegreateski

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King dies - Queen rules

Queen dies - Regent rules

Regent dies - Teyrn rules

Teyrn dies . . . you get the idea.



Something tells me that Howe was planning on following that line of thinking . . . him being the brand spanking new Teyrn of Highever after all.

#124
Xandurpein

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thegreateski wrote...

King dies - Queen rules
Queen dies - Regent rules
Regent dies - Teyrn rules
Teyrn dies . . . you get the idea.

Something tells me that Howe was planning on following that line of thinking . . . him being the brand spanking new Teyrn of Highever after all.


Your grasp of how the sucession works seems a bit lacking, but I'm not saying that Howe didn't imagine he deserved better...

Modifié par Xandurpein, 24 avril 2010 - 09:18 .


#125
Bratt1204

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thegreateski wrote...

King dies - Queen rules
Queen dies - Regent rules
Regent dies - Teyrn rules
Teyrn dies . . . you get the idea.

Something tells me that Howe was planning on following that line of thinking . . . him being the brand spanking new Teyrn of Highever after all.


You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.