261 réponses à ce sujet

[Willowhugger]

I'd like to add my thoughts on this old argument.



The Couslands COULD press themselves forward for the throne of the kingdom. However, the essential problem for that argument is the fact that the Couslands aren't Teryns anymore. Your territory is under the control of Arl Howe and his men. Worse, your army was more or less annihilated at Ostagar thanks to Loghain's treachery. Hence, you don't have the land or the military presence to force the issue.



Plus, while you might be able to muster a force behind you, Anora and Aleister have gathered a far larger coalition behind each other.

[Cypher0020]

How much power would femcousland have? I'm gonna do a run just to get the royal/good ending?



Are you a princess or a queen? Do they share equal power or does Alistair trumph that?

[Sarah1281]

You are the Queen Consort, also called Princess Consort. Unlike the Alistair/Anora marriage where they are both regents and rule jointly, he is the King (or she is the Queen for HNM) and he has more power than you. Of course, if you make yourself chancellor/teyrna you'll gain a lot of individual power as well as the fact that you know Alistair will listen to you, particularly if unhardened. How much power a consort has depends on the regent and Alistais is a lot more willing to share than Anora.

[ejoslin]

A lot depends also on whether it's a political marriage with Alistair or a love (or still-in-love) marriage. In a political marriage, the HNF is considered the ruler of the country. In the love marriage, she's considered the beloved bride of the king.

[Sarah1281]

ejoslin wrote...

A lot depends also on whether it's a political marriage with Alistair or a love (or still-in-love) marriage. In a political marriage, the HNF is considered the ruler of the country. In the love marriage, she's considered the beloved bride of the king.

I think that's just how the common people see it. I can't imagine Alistair listening more to the HNF just because he's not in love. If anything, you'd think it would be the opposite.

[Cypher0020]

Now how would Alistair/Anora hook up..... I'm thinking of sparing Loghain for my DNF run.... and doesn't it make more political sense for them to marry and its better to make a popular general a Warden instead of kiling him??

[Sarah1281]

I often do that. If you do then Alistair can't fight Loghain (he kills him and if Alistair kills Anora's father she won't do it) and Alistair has to be hardened or else sparing Loghain will make him back out. At Eamon's, go talk to Anora and when she asks for support suggest she marry Alistair. She'll reluctantly consent as long as you promise Alistair won't try to steal her power. Then go talk Alistair into it and report back to Anora. If you do that, you don't have to pass a pesuade check at the Landsmeet. The hardened!Alistair/Anora pairing actually ends really well and people start saying that the civil war/Landsmeet was worth it for giving them such a beloved ruling couple although their personal happiness is up for debate.

[Cypher0020]

is hardening Alistair a good or bad thing? I can't really play an evil run..... but this hardening of Alistair... will it effect things later in-game?



They're.....actually good ruling together? I like it'd be civil war all over again...



what's the word my FDN is.... pragmatic?? Considering her own royal background..... yessh.

[Sarah1281]

Cypher0020 wrote...

is hardening Alistair a good or bad thing? I can't really play an evil run..... but this hardening of Alistair... will it effect things later in-game?

They're.....actually good ruling together? I like it'd be civil war all over again...

what's the word my FDN is.... pragmatic?? Considering her own royal background..... yessh.

I've never married an unhardened Alistair to Anora (she'd eat him alive) but a hardened Alistair with her is probably the best outcome as the complement each other (although this could technically also be achieved by the right HN). Hardening Alistair is almost a must if you want him to be King. Sure, you could be his chancellor and rule the country for him but he's not happy about beig King and so he keeps running away from court to talk to the common people (although they do love him for this). Hardenig Alistair feels like the wrong thing to do because you have to tell him that everyone is out for themselves after Goldanna rejects him and the more organic thing to do is comfort him, but it's tough love that's for his own good, really. Even without Anora, he is a far better, happier King if he's hardened as he translates you telling him people are selfish and out for themselves into 'I should stand up for myself.' So yeah...he doesn't listen.

[Cypher0020]

Interesting. So the key to hardening him is that remark after you visit Goldanna? Do you have to max out his approval bar? My DN was planning on getting with Zevran.... so how can I do that/harden alistair/ etc at the same time...

[Sarah1281]

Cypher0020 wrote...

Interesting. So the key to hardening him is that remark after you visit Goldanna? Do you have to max out his approval bar? My DN was planning on getting with Zevran.... so how can I do that/harden alistair/ etc at the same time...

It's two-fold. First you have to tell him that after Goldanna's and then you have a follow-up conversation when you're approval is high enough (I don't remember how high you need it but it has to be pretty high) he says he was thinking about what you said and you're right. As long as you don't tell him he misinterpreted you then he's hardened. Alistair tends to gain approval faster with girls so even if you don't intend to flirt a bit and thus nicely dump him for Zevran, you should be able to manage it, especially if you give him the locket and shield.

[Cypher0020]

Ehhhh that sounds tricky.......o.o or maybe I'm jsut that dimwitted



Playing a HN slaying Howe , arresting Anora and finally becoming queen and marrying Alistair sounds nicer



Does the epilogue say you rule fairly or.... not so much?

[Sarah1281]

It's not really tricky, just get his approval up really high and then talk to him. Flirting does help, but it's not mandatory (male Wardens manage to harden him as well). If it's a politcal marriage everyone knows you're really running things and if it's a love match then everyone just talks about how much Alistair loves you but I can't imagine him giving you less of a say if he love you, that's just people's opinion.



If Alistiar is an unhardened King he's a pretty shoddy ruler due to the various issues Eamon gave him about how he'd suck at ruling to try to protect Cailan. If he is hardened, the epilogue is more short-term than Anora's but he does very well.

[Marso40]

I think it's kinda neat that if you play a HMN, you can do this:

1. Find Fergus at the end (Highever is restored to the Couslands)

2. Opt for a title and riches. (Gwaren becomes a holding of the Couslands)

3. Play Awakening, and as warden commander become the de facto Arl of Amaranthine. (Amaranthine is now also ruled by a Cousland)

Does this not, more or less, put more than TWO THIRDS of all Ferelden in your family's power?

GO COUSLANDS!!!!!!

Modifié par Marso40, 04 mai 2010 - 02:08 .

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

From my understanding in reading the codexes (126 for Highever and 125 for Gwaren) in culture and history, it clearly states that Highever is second in rank after the King - in this case King Calilan. Which I take to mean you're the one who the throne should actually go to after Alistair being of royal blood, not Anora.

I always felt it was Anora who was after the power grab all along, she didn't have as strong a claim as Alistair or you the only Cousland left standing at the Landsmeet. If she was so afraid of Howe as she claimed she wouldn't have gone to visit him and he turned on her to take it all. All that stood in her/his way: was you the Cousland, Alistair, and Loghain. She also wanted to rule without her father being a bully over her. Her solution is to have you kill him, or join the Grey Wardens, which you could have commanded him to take the final blow or he dies of the taint anyway. Problem solved. Anora, seemed to know a great deal about the joining.  How did she know about the joining.  Duncan said it was a secret.  Apparently, spies at Ostagar.

I always felt Anora was the one working with Howe, she would have understood that Fergus and You stood in her way more than anyone. She had to know about Alistair and I think this is why Duncan actually recruited him into the Grey Wardens to help keep him safe in a way. Don't forget the scene with Howe and Zevran, also Ostagar Tent Guards, bar keeps gossip on friction between Anora and Calian and friction with Anora/Cailan/Loghain. Howe/Anora were going to wipe out any legal claim holders to the throne. I think Bryce Cousland knew this at the attack on Highever and he tells you to seek justice. In joining the Grey Wardens you will have fellow wardens to watch your back. Calilan also knew something was up when he sent you and Alistair to Light the Beacon, He knew your father had been murdered and a coup de grace was about to happen for all highborns in the land, which meant himself, Alistair, and you. Calilan keep a royal claim to the throne open and taking it away from his wife in case of his death by sending Alistair and you a Cousland (second in rank) to the King, to light the beacon. In RTO Calian's personal guard is sworn to get secret papers to Grey Wardens, why not Eamon? Because Alistair, Fergus, and you are the legal holders of the throne, not Anora or Howe.  Your rank is higher than Arl Eamon's.

During my last playthrough I got a different dialogue option with Alistair after speaking with Anora in Denerim. He was furious over Anora and tells me I will have to decide the landsmeet. Eamon also asks you the Cousland to decide landsmeet because you were second in rank to the King being a Cousland. This is why you decide the landsmeet.

I have to agree Anora is unfit to rule with allowing Loghain to betray her husband and Howe to torture and enslave Fereldan citizens. She knew it went on. She knew exactly what Howe was doing. I also didn't get the option to lie to her and tell her I would support her. I did like the option of telling her it takes more than ambition to rule. In effect I was telling her I had the rank and she didn't and Calian knew this personally requesting that I light the beacon. Why wasn't Alistair asked to this meeting? 

In my opinion, you the Cousland have an even higher claim than Alistair because you're a legal born heir where Alistair is a bastard if playing HNF.  Same with Anora for the HNM.  You and Fergus are legally born, so the way I see it the Cousland children after Calian are the legal heirs to the throne as stated from the lore.  Also, Sophia Dryden heirs have a claim, which allows Levi Dryden as having a claim as well.  I think the old mage at warden's keep lies and that their was records supporting Sophia Dryden's claim.  She was King Arland's cousin.

Zevran or Lelianna could have killed you or Alistair anytime.  Zevran hired by Loghain/Howe/Anora with Lelianna by the Orlesians or Orzammar for the dwarves to take it all.   I think Marjoline is sent to retrieve Lelianna and to cover her tracks Lelianna lies to you and you kill Marjoline.  Also don't forget all of the rogue and blackstone irregulars quest to gain support in the landsmeet even as King/Queen regent marrying Alistair/Anora alot of folks have dirty laundry on the new King or Queen of Felderan, playing HN origin.

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 04 mai 2010 - 10:40 .

[Sarah1281]

Um...what?

From my understanding in reading the codexes (126 for Highever and 125 for Gwaren) in culture and history, it clearly states that Highever is second in rank after the King - in this case King Calilan. Which I take to mean you're the one who the throne should actually go to after Alistair being of royal blood, not Anora.

Highever was taken from the presumed dead Couslands by the regent and awarded to the Howes. Rendon is dead but it is still a Howe holding until post-coronation when it is restored. Therefore, technically you're not.

I always felt Anora was the one working with Howe, she would have understood that Fergus and You stood in her way more than anyone.

I think what happened with Howe was that Anora wanted to find a way to scope out the Warden and see if she could form an alliance, so she set up the situation. She may have been being held prisoner, but she knew that would happen and Erlina went 'for help.' Not to mention Cauthrien just HAPPENS to show up mere minutes after Howe dies knowing you killed him? How else could she have known but Erlina?



That said, the thought she was working with Howe to kill off anyone who stood in her way is...unlikely. The Couslands were killed before Cailan was and Loghain was the one who Jowan identified (from his picture so we can be reasonably sure it was him) as the man who hired him. Loghain didn't conclusively plan to actually kill Cailan until some point at Ostagar and he certainly wouldn't have warned his daughter that he was out to get her husband. She didn't officially know or she wouldn't have asked him if he was guilty and have him not respond 'WTF are you asking me now I told you before it happened.' Having Cailan alive and uninterested in ruling was in her best interest as then even though she was a consort she was still acting as ruler. Killing him off as well as killng off each and every noble that might have had a claim to the throne? Far too risky. Maybe if the Couslands were killed AFTER her position was in danger.



And the Couslands being the second most powerful family does not translate to 'legally, if all of the Theirins die then the Couslands get the throne.' That may be what could happen but only if the Landsmeet approves it. The Landsmeet had to approve Cailan, after all, even though he was the legal heir. And Alistair has no legal claim to the throne as an unacknowledged bastard. He had to have the Landsmeet legitimize him since there weren't really any other candidates at that point but Anora.

During my last playthrough I got a different dialogue option with Alistair after speaking with Anora in Denerim. He was furious over Anora and tells me I will have to decide the landsmeet. Eamon also asks you the Cousland to decide landsmeet because you were second in rank to the King being a Cousland. This is why you decide the landsmeet.

So Eamon or Alistair actually said 'hey, you're a Cousland so why not decide?' What's their rationale for making a mage or non-human do it?

I also didn't get the option to lie to her and tell her I would support her. I did like the option of telling her it takes more than ambition to rule. In effect I was telling her I had the rank and she didn't and Calian knew this personally requesting that I light the beacon. Why wasn't Alistair asked to this meeting?

Of course you could lie about supporting her. It might not label it as 'lie' but just promise support and then don't follow through. And Cailan asking you to light the beacon and attend the meeting had nothing to do with being a Cousland as it happens to all Origins! You do realize you don't HAVE to play as a Cousland and most of the story is the same, right? As for why Alistair didn't go...it might have been Cailan, Duncan, Loghain, or even Alistair himself who opted out of going. Having the King not come face-to-face with the possible threat to his rule tended to be everyone who knew's policy towards Alistair.

[Sarah1281]

In my opinion, you the Cousland have an even higher claim than Alistir because you're a legal born heir where Alistair is a bastard if playing HNF. Same with Anora for the HNM. You and Fergus are legally born, so the way I see it the Cousland children after Calian are the legal heirs to the throne as stated from the lore. Also, Sophia Dryden heirs have a claim, which allows Levi Dryden as having a claim as well.

No, Levi is in the same situation you are: his family has no title. He has no title. His family used to be nobles and now they are merchants. Anora's family is nobility. Her father is a Teyrn and if she didn't become Queen she would have become Teyrna.

Zevran or Lelianna could have killed you or Alistair anytime. Zevran hired by Loghain/Howe/Anora with Lelianna by the Orlesians or Orzammar for the dwarves to take it all.

Anora didn't hire Zevran! Howe has a cutscene where he hires him and runs it by Loghain! Why would Orlais want to keep you, someone not even remotely involved in a succession dispute, away from the throne? You're the only one trying to stop the Blight. Unlikely though it might be, your success means Orlais doesn't have to deal with it. And Leliana's been at the Chantry in Lothering for two years, as other NPCs confirm. Not to mention that Zevran is hired to kill you and Leliana shows up if you're not a HN. They really aren't the center of Ferelden, you know. And what do the dwarves have to do with it? They have their own problems and all hate/fear the surface anyway.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

The Codexs in the culture and history section plainly state The Couslands are second in rank to the King, that answers everyone's question right there. Since I'm alive and once the landsmeet and blight is ended your title is restored to your family and the Howes are stripped of theirs. It was just a matter of time. Anora/Alistair restore these lands and titles anyway. Anora promises before the landsmeet your lands and titles will be restored if you support her. Alistair restores them since you saved Ferelden. Since I'm alive and we find out later so is my brother so my lands and titles haven't been stripped. Levi Drydens lands were stripped by King Arland and for them fighting for King Maric and this is why he wanted help in restoring Warden's Keep to find records of Sophia Dryden to reclaim his lands and titles for his family, but the mage in the tower lied and so did the demon. Don't forget over by the statue before entering the keep during that battle there is a dungeon entrance to the keep and a couple of doors inside that you can't get through. Why didn't Maric restore these titles to Levi Dryden? Levi Dryden need the Warden's back in Ferelden to gain access to that keep.

Orlesian didn't want to keep me or Alistair, didn't you find Lelianna's tale sort of strange on the maker. It was all hogwash. Morrigan and Alistair both saw through that one.  If you take Morrigan's ritual your alive and everything smooths out for now.  If you take the US ending Lelianna and Zevran both go back to their old ways.

Howe would have run it by Loghain since he was doing Anora's dirty work for her. Loghain also knew with both you and Alistair alive his daughter's rule was in danger and his place as regent was in danger. Howe would have double crossed Loghain and Anora anyway and tried to take the whole kingdom. Didn't Howe say he deserved more, when you killed him! Yup, another double-cross coming down the pike.

Heck, in Awakenings Howe's people try to kill you and Alistair/Anora are safely back at the palace safe and sound while you the possible rightful heir fight battles as Commander of the Grey. Interesting. So is hubby or Anora trying to kill you off next? That would be a plot twist.  I thought it strange that Anders asks what you will do after this mission is over?  The endings in Awakenings has your brother restoring Harpers Ford back to Nathaniel Howe or the Howe family to give them pause to came back after him to kill him and maybe you. Plot twists!  Love them.

The what if's are fun!   Who was playing you as the Dark Wolf in Awakenings?  Oh, I was very intrigued by that storyline.  Was it Slim, Alistair or any of your former party members, who was that masked person, really? 

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 04 mai 2010 - 11:33 .

[Sarah1281]

The Drydens lost their coup so were deemed traitors and have a black name. All the nobles look down on them. Besides, their lands probably belong to another non-traitorous family by now since that was centuries ago.



And Alistair and Morrigan think she's crazy, not out to kill you. You'll note she never once tried even though she could have volunteered to cook and poisoned you all?



The Couslands are a family with a teynir, which is a position second only to the throne. You know who else has a teynir? The Mac Tirs. And when exactly does Loghain find out that you, specifically, are alive? Not until you speak up when he confronts Eamon before the Landsmeet and he then recognizes you if you met at Ostagar. He doesn't know Alistair survived until Eamon calls for a Landsmeet to put him on the throne.



In Awakening, your character is not FORCED to be WC, they agree to it so that the Orlesians don't need to send someone and to sort out all the problems. Since that, like most things, occurs with all non-Cousland characters, it cannot be taken as a plot to kill you.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Oh gosh, it's simple if you read your codexs and listen to the dialogue within the game. The Couslands outrank Loghain because the Cousland's Teynir predates the founding of the kingdom. You pick up this bit of info from the teacher in the Library. Loghain was a farmer. He was raised by King Maric. He nor his daughter have a drop of royal blood in them. If you'd read the book The Stolen Throne you'd know this plus the codex and dialogue.



Sophia Dryden was of royal blood if you'd bothered to listen to her corpse and get the dialogue option to reveal this information. She should have been ruler but the regents to Arland a son of the blood and a minor at the time forced her to become a Grey Warden or be hanged. This is the real reason the lands were stripped and the cause for the rebellion. Levi wanted the Warden's returned to Ferelden to gain access to that keep and gain access to those documents, the demon and the mage both lied. Why didn't King Maric restore those lands to the Drydens? Simple, another battle would have come up over Maric's own throne.



Lelianna and Zevran both make it known they are both hired killers. Zevran tired, whose to say Lelianna wouldn't have tried if the opportunity presented itself. If you're going to murder someone you don't want to do it with witnessess around. I think Lelianna was more clever than that. I think Morrigan would have put her down and so would Alistair, Oghren, and your dog. Sten, who knows. Shale would have supported you too as well as Wynne. She was also very interested in your relationship with Alistair if playing HNF. You have the option on all party member to allow them to join or not allow them to join. I've seen the dialogue option come up on the PS3 that Lelianna actually steals the Urn of Scared Ashes, and we all know that Zevran returns as the head of the crows if you die with the archdemon.



Depends on your choices with Origins if you want to take them through Awakenings or not. I've got two characters never uploaded or played through Awakenings and I won't play them until they patch that game to save it at the end. You have the choice to stay in Denerim at the end of Origins, travel to Highever with your brother or continue on with the Grey Wardens, run off with Zevran, chase after Morrigan. It's up to you if you want to import those characters or choose the default for Awakenings the Orlesian Warden. It's a players personal choice and to role play it as that character. Since my favorite is HNF, this is the plot line I follow. Doesn't mean I'm wrong or that you're wrong.





The Howes associates do try to kill the new Warden Commander of Vigil's Keep and someone from Origins who knew you where actually the Dark Wolf warns you of the trouble. Someone playing the darkwolf. I was given the option in Awakening to say I was the Dark the Wolf and not the fake who was warning me. I held my tongue on that one. It's all about the roleplay of the game.



My son is a power player and he missed alot of stuff in Awakenings that I found because I took the time to read and listen. I'm a what if kind of player, I love the political intrigue of the game. Love it.

[Sarah1281]

Oh gosh, it's simple if you read your codexs and listen to the dialogue within the game.

Can you please not assume that me not agreeing with you means I must not read the codexes or listen to the dialogue? I KNOW that the Couslands were around before Ferelden, I know Loghain's father was a farmer, I know Sophia had a strong claim to the throne. I still disagree with you and feel a lot of this is conspiarcy theories and Leliana never, ever STEALS the Urn.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Make your cunning score high enough and you'll get that option for epilogue save on dead warden, and it said she did steal the ashes. My son and I couldn't believe it when we read that. We both laughed.

Well assume I'm roleplaying it my way, but I do follow the lore and think about it, because it's a great RPG. With every play through I find something new. It depends on your coresion, willpower, and cunning attributes and these open up different dialogue options.

You do understand what ranks mean don't you. It goes like this: The King or Queen, Dukes or in this case Teynirs, Arl for Earls, then Lords, in this case the Bannora, and then Knights. Then crafters and the lower classes. Since the Couslands have the oldest they outrank Loghain according to the game lore and everyone else. This is the way I'm roleplaying, if your not that isn't my problem. I don't care if we agree or not. Calian would have been confirmed with the Landsmeet because he was the son of King Maric. It was a formality or ceremony if you will.  Anora in real life just as the Queen Mother of England would actually be the Dowger Queen and she was only to hold the throne until a rightful heir could be confirmed.  In this game lore it's Alistair, Levi Dryden, or the Couslands.  Just like in real life Prince Charles will take his Mother's Throne in England if England continues their royal house and decides to maintain their throne.  The House of Lords will have to confirm him.

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 05 mai 2010 - 12:55 .

[Sarah1281]

You do understand what ranks mean don't you. It goes like this: The King or Queen, Dukes or in this case Teynirs, Arl for Earls, then Lords, in this case the Bannora, and then Knights.

See, that's also condescending. I DO get that. I also get that a Duke/Teynir is a Duke/Teynir whether they are new nobility or not so officially they have the same rank. Yes, the conservative nobles like Eamon may look down on the Mac Tirs but all that means is that if the royal line were completely wiped out and, say, Bryce and Loghain were both vying for the throne at the Landsmeet then the conservatives would pick Bryce. Loghain was pretty much Ferelden's biggest hero, though, which gives him a lot of clout.

Calian would have been confirmed with the Landsmeet because he was the son of King Maric. It was a formality or ceremony if you will.

It is tradition for the Theirins to rule and Cailan seemed competent. Should he have proven himself extremely stupid or unlikeable he might have faced more problems and the fact he was engaged to marry Anora certainly would have helped matters. Even Eamon, when you suggest marrying Alistair and Anora, mentions that a union between Logain's line and the Theirins would be the most powerful case before the Landsmeet and that sentiment is echoed when he says in his letter to Cailan that an heir of those two lines would unite Ferelden like no other but it might not be possible.



There's a difference between roleplaying based on things found in the game (Zevran might have initially hung around try to kill you again and only changed his mind later/ Anora contacted Cauthrien at Howe's for example) and making things up because it sounds more interesting. There is no in-game support for Anora allying with Howe to assassinate the Warden who doesn't even have to be a Cousland and Alistair who was never a threat until Eamon (who was dying at the time) called the Landsmeet - though she does want to leave him at Fort Drakon should he end up there - or for Leliana being hired to kill you.



And why would your cunning score affect whether Leliana steals the ashes, particularly if you're dead? Do you talk her into it or something? Here is what the wiki has listed as her epilogues:

Leliana, if in love with the Warden, will offer to remain at the side of her love, supporting whatever he or she chooses to do. The single exception to this is if the Warden marries Anora or Alistair while Leliana remains "unhardened".

Leliana will go back to Orlais to seek out Marjolaine if she is not in love with the Warden and Marjolaine is still alive. She will turn the Warden down if he offers to join her.

Leliana will lead an investigation into the darkspawn, at the behest of Anora or Alistair, if she is hardened, marjolaine is dead, and she is not in love with the Warden. If she and the Warden are in a romance and he offers to join her, she will gladly accept.

Leliana will aid the Chantry in leading an expedition to the Urn of Sacred Ashes if she is not hardened, marjolaine is dead, and she is not in love with the Warden. If she and the Warden are in a romance and he offers to join her, she will gladly accept.

Leliana, if romanced, will fall apart from grief if The Warden sacrifices themself in the final battle. She will compose what will become a famous ballad of your journey. After one performance, Leliana quietly vanishes. It is said that the maker came to her in the night, and her maid found Leliana smiling, with tears in her eyes, saying that at last she be reunited with her love.

Leliana, if romanced, 'hardened', and The Warden sacrifices him- or herself in the final battle. She remained in the royal court for a time, but after one perfomance, Leliana quietly vanished. Some claimed she returned to a life of adventure, while others said that she returned to Orlais to exact revenge on her enemies. Whichever is true, she never forgot the one she loved.

Leliana, if romanced and broken-up with, will grieve if the Warden makes the Ultimate Sacrifice. She becomes a figure in the courts for a time, writing a grand ballad of the Warden but gives only one performance of it before disappearing.

Leliana may die at the hand of The Warden if she is present in the party after destroying the Ashes of Andraste unless 3 specific conditions are met (See Kolgrim's Offer for details). If not present, she may abandon the Warden soon after. This is dependent on choices in dialogue with Genitivi after defiling the urn (Blood Reavers) and how you respond when approached about it to Leliana back at camp. She can be persuaded/deceived away from leaving.)

Leliana dies at Lothering if she never meets The Warden.

[Willowhugger]

I think if Anora was dead, the Couslands might be able to stage a coup.  Or at least if Anora, Loghain, and so on were dead.

But they're kind of in a sucky position now.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

The DA:O Official Collector's Edition Hardbound Walkthrough states your attributes and skills do affect dialogue options. Written by Mike Searle for your information since you seem to have a hard on for calling me a liar. Don't forget not everyone has the same game edition, if this effects dialogue for different versions I can't fully speak to that since I'm not a developer. You can find the book at Amazon.com. It was out-of-print last time I checked.

My son got the epilogue save for the PS3 version, his dead warden, this is when it came up over the urn being stolen, could have been someone else that stole it, and also Zev being leader of the crows. I play on the PC version of the Collector's Edition, my son has the PS3 Collector's Edition.

Yes, I'm being condesending because I've explained to you how I'm roleplaying my HNF and what she is seeing and viewing from the lore and her viewpoint and the dialogue options. I didn't have high coresion skill to get the Chantry Priestess in Lothering to release Sten even after I made the 30 silver donation. Until I threaten her and with Alistair's interventionn did I get him released to my custody. Your attributes, and skills do effect dialogue options.  Alistair's approval dropped to -5 over that.  I choose  different skills for the build at the beginning of that playthrough.

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 05 mai 2010 - 02:58 .