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[Nonvita]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

And as someone who lived in a third world backward nation, I say progress and development are more important then satisfying a small minority that doesn't seem to offer anything.
The elves have been brought to heel and if they riot again, they will be crushed once more. It's only one sector of the population  and it's too small to affect the others, who don't really care about the elves anyhow.

People speak as if she is orchastrating a mass murder policy or an empovershiment policy vis a vis the elves. ITt was just one food riot that was brought down. It's minor in the larger scheme of things. If Ferelden develops and becomes more prosperous, there will be more avenues for the elves to participate and flourish.

Ferelden's number priority should be to end its status as a backward and poor nation. Once that is done, the elven problem can be delt with. A poor nation must prioritize. And the wellfare of Ferelden and the majority of its people is far more important than the elves.
And Anora's policies of trade expansion will reduce poverty.

And I'm not disagreeing that economic development is important. I've already agreed with you that Anora's reforms are good. I just think it is problematic to assume that small sectors of the population cannot cause serious problems were they to actually organize themselves. Especially in cases where it is a specific race/culture/ideology/etc being ignored and held down, tensions are more likely to arise that lead to violence. This is where terrorism and the like emerge from. If the elves simply find a leader who can get them weapons and inspire them to strike against the humans, they could in fact cause far more serious damage than they do in the riot case.

I'm not saying it does happen in Ferelden. Obviously it's not mentioned in the epilogue. However, there are countless cases historically where situations a lot like this turned far more deadly than people expected.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Nonvita wrote...
I'm not saying it does happen in Ferelden. Obviously it's not mentioned in the epilogue. However, there are countless cases historically where situations a lot like this turned far more deadly than people expected.

The elves have been subjugated for centuries and they never seemed to have done anything of that sort (ironically, I am planing to include an elven rebellion in my fanfic  but it's Dalish led). I do not think they will be able to do more than just riots for the time being. 

I am not suggesting that the elves should be starved to death. However, Ferelden has much more important things to worry about. Acceptance and toleration are really hard to achieve in a poor nation, where no one is happy. Historically speaking, the most inclusive societies are generally the wealthiest because they can afford it.
Ferelden becoming more prosperous and with better education can be beneficial to the elves in the long run.

Besides, the elves in Ferelden are much better off than the elves elsewhere and they shoudl remember this fact.

[Xandurpein]

Addai67 wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

A personal observation is that the people of the forum who are from North America or some other place that doesn't have a monarchy tends to be more zealous in the defence of the 'royal bloodline' than those of us who actually live in a monarchy. Maybe they over compensate or think or just read to many fairy tales. In reality a monarchy is governed by expediency as much as by tradition. Bloodlines come and go really. A monarchy has to adapt to survive just like the rest of the world.

I think a difference could be that people have in their minds a divine right of kings model, which is more late-medieval, versus a more Germanic, decentralized meritocracy which seems to me to be prevalent in Ferelden.  Nevertheless it is true that the Calenhad legend is one of the few things that tie together the semi-barbaric tribes that came together to forge the country's national identity.

Good point. Fereldan's Landsmeet seems to be very remnicent of for example Sweden's "Ting" a meeting of nobles who among other things confirms the new King. I would say that even if Fereldan is forged from semi-barabaric tribes, it's probably a mistake to tie Fereldans untiy too much to just a legend. Fereldan is a country because it has a distinct tounge among other things. And a legend can still be a powerful myth even if the actual bloodline is broken.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 25 avril 2010 - 05:50 .

[Xandurpein]

Elps wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Nonvita wrote...
I'm not saying it does happen in Ferelden. Obviously it's not mentioned in the epilogue. However, there are countless cases historically where situations a lot like this turned far more deadly than people expected.

The elves have been subjugated for centuries and they never seemed to have done anything of that sort (ironically, I am planing to include an elven rebellion in my fanfic  but it's Dalish led). I do not think they will be able to do more than just riots for the time being. 

I am not suggesting that the elves should be starved to death. However, Ferelden has much more important things to worry about. Acceptance and toleration are really hard to achieve in a poor nation, where no one is happy. Historically speaking, the most inclusive societies are generally the wealthiest because they can afford it.
Ferelden becoming more prosperous and with better education can be beneficial to the elves in the long run.

Besides, the elves in Ferelden are much better off than the elves elsewhere and they shoudl remember this fact.

Things may be about to change though. At least one Dalish clan now has a strong leader who has lived with humans, sent hunters to fight alongside them, and is progressive in her thinking. The Denerim Alienage also has a strong, vocal, and somewhat stroppy leader. One who was prepared to take up arms to protect the Alienage. Arms are forbidden in the Alienage but the elves still had them and the shop stocked weapons. 

With new leadership within both the Dalish and Alenage elves, its folly to assume that the elves will take further subjugation without at least making plans to improve their lot.

Unless the elves find support among large groups of humans, and there is really nothing in the game to support this assumption, increased belligrence among the elves can only end in tragedy - for the elves.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Elps wrote...
Things may be about to change though. At least one Dalish clan now has a strong leader who has lived with humans, sent hunters to fight alongside them, and is progressive in her thinking. The Denerim Alienage also has a strong, vocal, and somewhat stroppy leader. One who was prepared to take up arms to protect the Alienage. Arms are forbidden in the Alienage but the elves still had them and the shop stocked weapons. 

With new leadership within both the Dalish and Alenage elves, its folly to assume that the elves will take further subjugation without at least making plans to improve their lot.

You assume that the PC doesn't side with the werewolves (I didn't BTW). Furthermore, the dalish settled in the south, outside or just on Ferelden's borders. They do not have the manpower nor the ressources necessary to be a real threat. 

If they decide to be violent, they wil just make it worse for themselves. It would be folly on their part if they think they can win. Especially after their little riot was crushed.
The propserity of the majority is far more important than that of a small minority. Once that is assured, the lot of the minority can be improved.
The epilogue with Anora says the elves are not happy (they never are). It does not warn of an imminent rebellion however. And if they do rebel, then they just made it worse for themselves.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 25 avril 2010 - 05:59 .

[fongiel24]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

You assume that the PC doesn't side with the werewolves (I didn't BTW). Furthermore, the dalish settled in the south, outside or just on Ferelden's borders. They do not have the manpower nor the ressources necessary to be a real threat. 

If they decide to be violent, they wil just make it worse for themselves. It would be folly on their part if they think they can win. Especially after their little riot was crushed.
The propserity of the majority is far more important than that of a small minority. Once that is assured, the lot of the minority can be improved.
The epilogue with Anora says the elves are not happy (they never are). It does not warn of an imminent rebellion however. And if they do rebel, then they just made it worse for themselves.

The Dalish elves also would have had plenty of reason to cause trouble even before DA:O. It's not as if they were weaker then or that elves were treated better. What that shows is that the Dalish will generally only act violently if they are directly threatened. They have no desire to start a war they cannot win, particularly when it means the survival of their race and will thus have no interest in starting a crusade for elven emancipation.

Furthermore, it's made obvious that the city elves and Dalish elves have little in common and little contact. The Dalish elves feel badly for their opressed brethren, but their preferred solution is not violent revolution on behalf of their cousins in the cities but rather that the city elves leave the alienages and join them.

Their role in stopping the Blight may have earned them respect and land to settle on but that is exactly why they wouldn't want to cause trouble. Why squander all the good will you've fought so hard to get for a hopeless rebellion?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Exactly fongiel. The Dalish do not show much respect to the alienage elves and they will definately not risk open war for their sakes.