93 réponses à ce sujet

[Wicked 702]

Thajocoth wrote...

Wicked 702 wrote...

Got Microsoft to acknowledge and fix
the RROD issue.
Just saying....

That was far more people than this could possibly generate...

You'd need EA to lose the case to have any useful effect. Especially EA, of all companies in the industry... And if you do manage to beat them, and they fix this game, they'll make BW suffer for it in the future, one way or another.  Maybe they'll fire people.  Maybe they'll screw with the dev cycle or put massive restrictions on their creativity.

And if EA wins such a case, which is far more likely, they're likely to drop any further interaction with the game, as it'd be too big a risk in their eyes.  They wouldn't want another lawsuit for whatever bugs are in the next patch, and that's what's most important to EA.  If the lawsuit costs them enough, BW will still see the same punishments for it.

Really, no good could come of this.  Surango's idea is really your best bet.

FYI, Microsoft didn't lose the case. It was settled out of court, as many cases of this kind are.

My personal opinion tends to agree with Surango....and of course not buying any more Bioware products and such. All I am simply trying to point out is that the OP is not disingenuous or a "troll" as so many immature people so far seem to insinuate. There's nothing wrong with organizing people and using the court system if you believe this issue rises to that level.

[Taiko Roshi]

Thajocoth wrote...

Wicked 702 wrote...

Got Microsoft to acknowledge and fix
the RROD issue.
Just saying....

That was far more people than this could possibly generate...

You'd need EA to lose the case to have any useful effect. Especially EA, of all companies in the industry... And if you do manage to beat them, and they fix this game, they'll make BW suffer for it in the future, one way or another.  Maybe they'll fire people.  Maybe they'll screw with the dev cycle or put massive restrictions on their creativity.

And if EA wins such a case, which is far more likely, they're likely to drop any further interaction with the game, as it'd be too big a risk in their eyes.  They wouldn't want another lawsuit for whatever bugs are in the next patch, and that's what's most important to EA.  If the lawsuit costs them enough, BW will still see the same punishments for it.

Really, no good could come of this.  Surango's idea is really your best bet.

Lets not forget that the class action suit against EA, in regards to Spore, had some positive effects.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Bahahaha!



Continue OP! I can't wait to see how this turns out!

[Thajocoth]

Wicked 702 wrote...

Thajocoth wrote...

Wicked 702 wrote...

Got Microsoft to acknowledge and fix
the RROD issue.
Just saying....

That was far more people than this could possibly generate...

You'd need EA to lose the case to have any useful effect. Especially EA, of all companies in the industry... And if you do manage to beat them, and they fix this game, they'll make BW suffer for it in the future, one way or another.  Maybe they'll fire people.  Maybe they'll screw with the dev cycle or put massive restrictions on their creativity.

And if EA wins such a case, which is far more likely, they're likely to drop any further interaction with the game, as it'd be too big a risk in their eyes.  They wouldn't want another lawsuit for whatever bugs are in the next patch, and that's what's most important to EA.  If the lawsuit costs them enough, BW will still see the same punishments for it.

Really, no good could come of this.  Surango's idea is really your best bet.

FYI, Microsoft didn't lose the case. It was settled out of court, as many cases of this kind are.

My personal opinion tends to agree with Surango....and of course not buying any more Bioware products and such. All I am simply trying to point out is that the OP is not disingenuous or a "troll" as so many immature people so far seem to insinuate. There's nothing wrong with organizing people and using the court system if you believe this issue rises to that level.

EA is not Microsoft.

[Wozearly]

A better response, honestly, would be to begin by formally contacting Bioware and/or EA to list out the problems with the game that you believe are breaching the implied contract. This doesn't have to be especially technical, but with enough information that each can be clearly identified, be seen to have contract-breaking seriousness and, ideally, be able to be replicated.



Personally, I wouldn't start making legal threats or even mention the implied contract at this point. Vendors have a legal right to an opportunity to respond to customers and attempt to fix the problem and/or replace the merchandise.



If this is clearly not happening, the problems are widespread and the vendor refuses to refund the cost of the product, in many countries you may have a direct point of appeal in terms of a trading standards organisation. If nothing else, their pressure in leaning on EA/Bioware may generate a bit more pressure on fixing things fast (but don't then complain about DLC being delayed).



If EA/Bioware continue to ignore everything you're saying, refuse to engage with you and you feel you genuinely have the grounds for a legal action to recover your costs then you can sue. A class action suit is only worthwhile when there are lots of individual claimants each with too little to gain personally to justify the expense of going to court, or so many people with the same or highly similar problems that its more effective for both sides to settle it as a single action.



...however, any attempt at legal action (successful, unsuccessful or abortive) is very, very unlikely to have a positive outcome for EA, Bioware or the Dragon Age series. Or, to be frank, for the people who raise it and who will need, ultimately, to pay for it.



Sucessful, positive class action suits are the exception, not the norm...

[AlanC9]

He probably needs to look up the meaning of "full", for starters. It doesn't imply quality. There may be an implied contract here, but that's got nothing to do with it.

[Taiko Roshi]

AlanC9 wrote...

He probably needs to look up the meaning of "full", for starters. It doesn't imply quality. There may be an implied contract here, but that's got nothing to do with it.

I'm not imputting the quality the game is great! I'm specifically talking about the bugs, which were clearly identified six months ago, that do not allow me to play the "full game".

Modifié par Taiko Roshi, 30 avril 2010 - 12:12 .

[Thajocoth]

Taiko Roshi wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

He probably needs to look up the meaning of "full", for starters. It doesn't imply quality. There may be an implied contract here, but that's got nothing to do with it.

I'm not imputting the quality the game is great! I'm specifically talking about the bugs, which were clearly identified six months ago, that do not allow me to play the "full game".

If it is possible for you to load a new character and eventually bring that character to see the ending credits, then it is possible for you to play the "full" game.  Sidequests are not part of the main game.  They are there to add to your enjoyment of the game.  Bugs that get in the way, unless they happen 100% of the time, making it absolutely impossible to finish the main quest line, are not making you incapable of playing the full game.

"Full" is not "Entire".  "Full" is one line of "Main quest".  Just one.  You need more than this to have a case.

[Taiko Roshi]

Thajocoth wrote...

Taiko Roshi wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

He probably needs to look up the meaning of "full", for starters. It doesn't imply quality. There may be an implied contract here, but that's got nothing to do with it.

I'm not imputting the quality the game is great! I'm specifically talking about the bugs, which were clearly identified six months ago, that do not allow me to play the "full game".

If it is possible for you to load a new character and eventually bring that character to see the ending credits, then it is possible for you to play the "full" game.  Sidequests are not part of the main game.  They are there to add to your enjoyment of the game.  Bugs that get in the way, unless they happen 100% of the time, making it absolutely impossible to finish the main quest line, are not making you incapable of playing the full game.

"Full" is not "Entire".  "Full" is one line of "Main quest".  Just one.  You need more than this to have a case.

Nope it is clearly stated "full version". No second posion/trap radial menu, no Dexterity, save file crashes. All these mean I do not get the "full version of the game".

[Mercuron]

Dude if you really plan to file anything, at least present a premise that isn't complete sophistry.

[Taiko Roshi]

Mercuron wrote...

Dude if you really plan to file anything, at least present a premise that isn't complete sophistry.

Fallacious comments aside. There is no "full VERSION" of the game with the current bugs.

[Surango]

Taiko Roshi wrote...

Mercuron wrote...

Dude if you really plan to file anything, at least present a premise that isn't complete sophistry.

Fallacious comments aside. There is no "full VERSION" of the game with the current bugs.

A better way to put it is be very specific. You'll need both technical and legal terminology, a document stating what you and the parties with you consider to be a full game, and so forth. If you walk into the court room with what you've posted here, if this is the entirety of your case, the judge would most likely laugh you out of there. You can't just stomp your foot and say, "There are bugs," and expect to be taken seriously.

Some questions to ask yourself.

What makes this a bug?
What is the intended operation?
Can it be reproduced?

You and the involved parties will need to know many details. If you're having trouble understanding some of the terms used by others, go to a library and look them up in Black's law dictionary or the equivalent in your country.

[twjohnston0659]

I find it hard to believe that someone can actually delude him/herself into such a false sense of entitlement...

[Gnaeus.Silvanus]

You have my outmost support OP. However, the class action suit may be moot and academic the minute you have agreed on their EULA when you installed the game. If you can find a loophole on that EULA I'll be glad to pitch in with the testimonies and first-hand accounts about the game.

[MuLepton]

twjohnston0659 wrote...

I find it hard to believe that someone can actually delude him/herself into such a false sense of entitlement...

Buying a game and expecting it to be bug-free, or at least expecting that game-breaking bugs (hello corrupted savegames) are fixed promtply, is having a false sense of entitlement.... how again?

[Taiko Roshi]

It says a lot about BW that they would leave this thread up in their forums for 10 days now. So we know its been at least 10 days since any BW rep has even bothered to look at this forum.

Modifié par Taiko Roshi, 04 mai 2010 - 11:35 .

[Surango]

Taiko Roshi wrote...

It says a lot about BW that they would leave this thread up in their forums for 10 days now. So we know its been at least 10 days since any BW rep has even bothered to look at this forum.

I'm... sorry? What does this have to do with anything? Unless you find and post something pretty damning against BW it's unlikely they're going to respond to a forum thread. And if they are paying attention, they're watching to see if you post anything that can be used against you if there actually is a suit.

[Taiko Roshi]

Surango wrote...

Taiko Roshi wrote...

It says a lot about BW that they would leave this thread up in their forums for 10 days now. So we know its been at least 10 days since any BW rep has even bothered to look at this forum.

I'm... sorry? What does this have to do with anything? Unless you find and post something pretty damning against BW it's unlikely they're going to respond to a forum thread. And if they are paying attention, they're watching to see if you post anything that can be used against you if there actually is a suit.

EA policy is to remove any thread dealing with legal matters from forums.

[Wicked 702]

twjohnston0659 wrote...

I find it hard to believe that someone can actually delude him/herself into such a false sense of entitlement...

I find it hard to believe that anyone with such a low intelligence as yourself is able to feed himself periodically.

........

See how productive your statements are now?

Modifié par Wicked 702, 05 mai 2010 - 01:25 .

[twjohnston0659]

Wicked 702 wrote...

I find it hard to believe that anyone with such a low intelligence as yourself is able to feed himself periodically.

........

See how productive your statements are now?

 Easy there killer, no need to get hostile.

[Wicked 702]

twjohnston0659 wrote...

Wicked 702 wrote...

I find it hard to believe that anyone with such a low intelligence as yourself is able to feed himself periodically.

........

See how productive your statements are now?

 Easy there killer, no need to get hostile.

And yet my point about your statement's complete lack of substance still stands. It was the functional equivalent of "I pronounce vague judgment and by its very existence is truth!" ......completely useless.

How about you actually describe what "thing" you believe the "false sense of entitlement" to be attached to. And explain, with substance, how that "thing" varies so far from accepted norms that it fits your definition.

.........or........continue trolling with nonsensical statements and I'll happily do the same.

[twjohnston0659]

Fair point I suppose... But my post was in response to the thread. I felt it was obvious that I meant the false sense of entitlement I was referring to was the intent to take legal action against the devs. Apologies if it was unclear.

[DragonShadow1987]

Have you ever bothered reading the EULA for anything? Meaningless legalese aside, they mostly just say that you are installing *insert software name here* at your own risk, and that *insert publisher here* is not responsible for any resulting damage thereof. Given the incalculable number of combinations of various hardware/software setups interacting on a computer, it is statistically IMPOSSIBLE to guarantee a product will even function; it can only be guaranteed to function most of the time, as is the case here. Most people experience few bugs, if any, and even fewer experience game-breaking ones: it's a small minority of players that comes to the forum, and naturally a fair number of them are from the bug-experiencing category. Since there hasn't been a flood of gamers trying to pawn off their flawed DAO copy to the local game store, I can only assume that they had no serious problems.



I'm not saying I like that situation, but we're talking about EA, possibly the worst (to the non-casual gamer) publisher in the world, and unfortunately, a very powerful one. EA doesn't listen, EA doesn't care, and as long as there are casual gamers who play EA's swill, EA will continue to make money.

[Mad Bohemian]

From the bugs with 1.03 patch thread.   LOL

Nathan Willis

Created about 9 hours ago
Hello all,



First, I wanted to take a moment to say that we're very sorry to hear that some of you are having issues with our game. We're aware of the issues at hand and are investigating them as completely as we can. As such, we hope to have more information for you soon.



Second, thank you to everyone that is reporting your issues in a constructive manner, as well as the members of the community doing your best to help out your fellow gamers. Please feel free to continue doing so - the more information we have, the better a chance we have of coming up with a solution.



So, we appreciate your continued patience! We're working on it and as soon as we've got some news we'll let you know.

Modifié par Mad Bohemian, 05 mai 2010 - 06:38 .