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[Celuwen]

I decided to play a new character all the way through Origins, so I could have a sort of 'Canon' Awakening play through. As such, I've only in the last couple of weeks got to the expansion.  

Flipping Nora it's intense. I've got near to the end and I think I've made all the wrong decisions and I feel utterly awful about it. Origins gave me many moments of heartache and pain, with the soothing balm of victory, friendship and love. Awakening has been relentless in comparison. 

I honestly flailed at all the decisions I had to make. Being the Warden-Commander felt brilliant until all the people started dieing because of my decisions. Very, very brutal. I felt like my character probably would, inexperienced and extremely lacking. 

The result of all of this is an awful mess of death, despair and destruction. Yet still everyone looks to my character for answers; she's hoping to curl up in a corner and sob. 

I actually had to log out because I needed an 'It's a Game, don't fret' reality check. 

Very well done Bioware! Now please sort out the bugs

[Aisynia]

Yeah, agreed.



When acting as the arlessa, what feels like the RIGHT thing to do isn't necessarily the smart thing to do. The peasant rebellion for instance. If you don't put them down hard, it's actually much worse for their population in the coming years.



There's also the matter of Ser Tamra. I was like, sure, let them come after me. Well, by not trying to quell that conspiracy, it had other victims.



In Origins we were used to being a roving band of outlaws. Our actions were typically immediately clear, and aside from what we had to do to get the treaties themselves, what we did generally didn't have huge effects on the kingdom at large. We had a goal, and we knew what that goal was: Build an army, overthrow this regime, and defeat the blight.



But in Awakening, it's a lot different. We don't need to worry about building an army to protect an entire country, even the world, but we are now directly responsible for the thousands and thousands of lives in the Arling, and we are forced to make decisions beyond simply trying to kill the darkspawn..



the consequences of ruling the Arling like you fought the blight can hit you like a bucket of cold water in the face for sure..

[KnightofPhoenix]

Aisynia wrote...
When acting as the arlessa, what feels like the RIGHT thing to do isn't necessarily the smart thing to do. The peasant rebellion for instance. If you don't put them down hard, it's actually much worse for their population in the coming years.

And the option that sounds the most cruel ("You and all your families will suffer!") is actually the best option, as the peasants will never revolt again.

[Aisynia]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Aisynia wrote...
When acting as the arlessa, what feels like the RIGHT thing to do isn't necessarily the smart thing to do. The peasant rebellion for instance. If you don't put them down hard, it's actually much worse for their population in the coming years.

And the option that sounds the most cruel ("You and all your families will suffer!") is actually the best option, as the peasants will never revolt again.

Yeah. As people, we usually seek the approval of others. We want to be liked.. but a leader can't always afford to be nice to everyone. The peasants were freaking out, and if you give them an inch, they get self-entitlement going and take a mile. They don't understand that the arling just doesn't have the resources to do what they want. In this case, doing the NICE thing is actually going to make it worse for everyone, the peasants and nobles alike, going forward.

Modifié par Aisynia, 24 avril 2010 - 03:55 .

[Tooneyman]

I'm not going to lie awakening feels a lot like NWN2 in the long rule when it comes to upgrading your keep it was kind of the same in NWN2 as well. Something feels like bioware wanted to make there own version of NWN2 only with dragon age. Hmmm makes you wonder?

[Celuwen]

I'm glad you guys understand in some way. I'm not saying the expansion is perfect, but I very much love it. I loved that I was flailing around, desperately trying to figure out how to rule. My character was a Dalish Rogue, so she had no idea! She did what had previously worked, but oh dear, it's very different when so many people depend on you.



I agree with what you've said. A leader is always alone due to the constraints placed upon them. The relentless need from everyone around you is all consuming.



Tooneyman, I have not played NWN2, just the first one. Wasn't the second from Obsidion?



There is a huge 'Bioware feel' for all their games. I just adore that they still tell wonderful gaming stories in an age where gaming is subject to 'dumbing down'. I adore Dragon Age because it's everything I love about a good RPG.



In comparison, I dislike Mass Effect, and I tried really hard to love it.

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

I duno i did everything right i killed the architect, Saved amaranthine, Fixed the fort, Saved the farms, killed the darkspawn messgener, killed the smugglers, befriended all my charaters so they wouldn't die/disapear/leave at the end of the epliloge, Killed the mother of course. I was happy at the end and so was everyone else personally the Orlesian Epiloge was more rewarding then veague running off with leliana thing.



But it was a very emotional investment this coming from the guy that doesn't feel very emotional about video games or movies. I like the new governing concept where you decided the fates of criminals ect its very rewarding and i enjoyed it. I hope they imply this for the next game in some way. Also i felt more like a somebody in this game compared to the first one although made sence it i didn't feel i was as a impacting figure till the landsmeet. Awakening was deffiently good now all they gota do is fix the DLC bugs frame rate issues, and we'll be good also there was rain on Awakening! More weather please

[phaonica]

Makes me wonder how King Alistair handles the entire country. Good luck with that. Just have to screw up a bunch of times and get a lot of people killed while one gets the hang of it *sadface*

Modifié par phaonica, 28 avril 2010 - 03:38 .

[phaonica]

I didn't do everything right the first time. The game was suddenly over and I was going... oops, guess I should have paid more attention to the side quests. I'll play it through again after we get a patch. If we get a patch.

[Raiil]

I found myself getting exasperated, in a good way. In Origins, most of my decisions were along the lines of 'who dies quicker?' and running over everything in my field of vision. Some moral ambiguity was okay because my PC was in a desperate situation, an outlaw trying to save the world and keep her party in tact. I only had one other Warden and a veritable crew of misfits following me.





As Arlessa, people were asking me to delegate matters my mage couldn't care less about. The nobles are being dicks? Fine, **** them, I'll take their people myself and they can go chew their cuds alone. Except that isn't an option. I could all but hear Amell ****ing about how it was bad enough when she had to find enough food for herself and eight other people, plus her dog, and now they want her to direct grain supplies for an entire city-state?





Frankly, going off to kill the Mother was probably the most relieving thing she did. It made her epilogue ending- leaving Amaranthine and rejoining Alistair before they took off for parts unknown- much more sensible. Who needs that sort of pressure?

[phaonica]

I really liked the politicking aspect of Awakening. It was probably my favorite part. Having to make tough decisions with not a lot of information. Laying down the law. Putting my foot down. Having to actually deal with problems instead of just murdering people. I found it to be a interesting change of pace, like actually having to exercise some responsibility. In Origins it was mostly "who do I have to kill around here so that no one is left except those who support me?"

Modifié par phaonica, 28 avril 2010 - 04:00 .

[sleepingbelow]

My epilogue and later decisions on my main Warden were more or less satisfactory for me.  RP-wise, Awakening was sort of a transition for my character.  DAA was a period when he began to feel the weight of guilt of his decisions during DAO, and then continued to add on to them.  He had lost friends and lovers because of harsh pragmatism, and in Awakenings he lost more.

It was a mixed bag for me of penance and falling into old habit.  I ended up protecting the farmers because he was wearied from the extreme measures he took in DAO (Branka, Blood Magic, etc.) and for once wanted to throw the little guy a bone.  Also, the line of dialogue seemed better written ("Amaranthine has its walls")  On the other hand, after taking the "dark" roads in DAO, I saw my character as one that had an easier time saying "Get off my damn lawn" during the revolt.

All in all, I think my character's outlook was reflected well in the world in a dramatic sense.  I see his journey as a depressing one that walks the line between heroic and anti-heroic.  Said outlook was sort of a "whatever the means" one, but it also drains him.

I liked the choice between Amaranthine and Vigil's Keep at the end, because he chose to save civilians over his friends, and he suffered for it.  Sigrun and Justice totally bit it.  Like the lesson he learned was, "No matter what I chose, I will always lose something."

For some reason, I have the idea that at the end of the day, my Warden ends up alone, missing his dead or absent friends and lovers.  It makes sense to me that a person who has to go through the events of Dragon Age would end up a little more scarred at the end of each great struggle.  Every decision strains his resolve a little more.

... I'm beginning to realize that it is weird that even my fantasies are depressing.

I guess if I were to compare my character's emotional state at the end of Awakening to a movie character, it would be William Munny from Unforgiven.  Penitent and frightened of his own dark side.  Burdened by the consequences of his decisions.  What about you guys?  Any analogues in well known characters after you'd finished Awakening/DAO?  Emotional, philosophical, other?

[phaonica]

I liked the choice between Amaranthine and Vigil at the end, too. I figured my other party members would hold the fort while I was away. I trusted them. I really expected for there to be an off-party battle there, like when you battled with your off-party at the end of Awakening. But alas, it was not to be. I lost Oghren and Nathaniel.



It does make me further appreciate the position I put the King or Queen of Ferelden and Orzammar into. Being ruler does *not* mean gaining support by trying to appease everyone and make everyone happy.

[Xandurpein]

To be honest. Playing Awakening and seeing the outcomes of different choices in how to deal with different issues as Arl, really puts Anora's style of leadership in a revealing light. Whether you hate her for what she may or may not have done to you personally, it's quite obvious that she often makes the type of decisions that gives you the best results in Awakening.

[phaonica]

Agreed. It made me doubly happy with my decision to put Anora on the throne. I never took her "betrayal" personally. But I guess that's a different topic

[WhiteVeils]

I did pretty good except for the peasant rebellion. I guess I was too nice there. I took Velanna, Sigrun, and Justice with me to Amaranthine, and no one died at Vigil's Keep. But one thing I had a big problem with was killing the Architect. I wanted not to kill him. But in the end, I felt like I just couldn't avoid it. Because even if the Darkspawn were free and no longer creating blights, they'd still have to be dragging women off to become broodmothers. And /that/ was too big an unaddressed problem for me.

[phaonica]

I felt the same way about the Architect. Suddenly the Blight seemed like a way to keep the darkspawn problem under control, and didn't seem so bad in comparison to the Architect's alternative.

[Patriciachr34]

I also did okay with my decisions. Although I always regret putting the peasants down, you just gotta do it. Everyone I ran through put a knife in my heart. However, you have to look at the overall picture. You simply cannot allow a mob to rule, especially when you're just establishing your authority.



I always save the Ameranthine rather than Vigil's Keep. One, the keep is a fortress full of seasoned veterans and some kick axx grey wardens. Plus, their armor is excellent thanks to Wade and the walls have just been reinforced. So, they can defend themselves quite competently. The city, on the other hand, ha only a handful of city guards and nothing else to defend themselves. They need the most help and are the most helpless. As Arlessa (sp?) it is my duty to defend these people. As grey warden, I need to quell the darkspawn threat in front of me so it doesn't reinforce the army attacking Vigil's Keep. I've gotten my approvals up to the point where no one dies (Vellana does disappear) if you take Sigrun and Justice with you.



As far as the Architect and Messenger, they are darkspawn. We cannot cure the taint and everything they touch will become tainted. They must die. There is no ending the blight in a world filled with intelligent darkspawn. They need us to breed and will develop independent agendas creating a perpetual blight to meet these agendas. That is truly bad mojo. Yes these decisions are hard, but they must be made.



I must confess however, I am in a position in real life where I have had to make decisions the adversely affect people I work with. It is always hard to look someone in the face and explain to them that we need to let them go. Decisions like these are made so that the company can continue, employ the people that remain, and contribute to the economy at large. I guess my life experience of looking at the long-term goals (big picture) makes these types of in-game decisions much easier for me.

[sleepingbelow]

WhiteVeils wrote...

Because even if the Darkspawn were free and no longer creating blights, they'd still have to be dragging women off to become broodmothers. And /that/ was too big an unaddressed problem for me.

I hope this doesn't come off as a big sweeping stereotype about people.  But I have to believe there is some other way that darkspawn reproduce.  Because Utha would know about it being impossible otherwise.

I have to believe that Utha, even if she's been twisted by the Architect, would ever cooperate with the propagation of broodmothers.  I hate her for the choices she's made, but unless shown irrefutable cannon proof that she's in on it, I can't bring myself to accept it.  Same thing for Velanna's sister.  We never see the Architect's darkspawn creating broodmothers.  Only the Mother's.

If I'm wrong about that, it will seriously shake me.

Modifié par sleepingbelow, 28 avril 2010 - 08:13 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I didn't really care if anyone liked me in Awakenings, beyond my party. About the only decision I really had to think about was the architect thing. I still really have to think about it.



The other decisions, however, were pretty easy.

[phaonica]

Well I found some of the decisions hard to make, not because I wanted people to like me, but because I was given the responsiblity to rebuild. I didn't want to be too soft enough for people to start trying to take advantage of me, and I didnt' want to be a tyrant either. I would lose support both ways, and for all that it's a video game, there are pretend long-term consequences to my characters actions.

[Patriciachr34]

Book Spoilers......







If you read the calling you would find out that the Architect is a bit of a manipulator. He waited until the calling was driving the people mad and then recruited them. He also never told anyone the entire truth. Utha is desperate to end the blight becasue her entire family was killed by darkspawn. She also 100% buys into anything to stop the blight. For her the ends do justify the means.

[sleepingbelow]

@Patriciachr34
I know. I just finished The Calling. Just... the broodmothers are so, so, so far beyond that. Utha would have to know at this point. Velanna's sister as well, probably.
And the Architect is a bit manipulator... he's just not a very good one. By his own admission and in his journals, he just lacks the understanding of human motivations.
It might be a matter of opinion, I just strongly believe that allowing broodmothers' continued existence would be anybody's breaking point. Including Utha's. Even more likely with what's-her-face, who's not a Grey Warden. It is a world that I simply cannot imagine anyone wanting to live in. Just by extension, if they're still with the Architect, I think he's got to have some other way to breed darkspawn.
The alternative (that they don't care) would keep me up at night.

EDIT- The Architect is a bit of a manipulator, but he also does have something of an honest streak.  When directly questioned by Genevieve about his ultimate solution, doesn't he fess up against the advice of Breagan?

Modifié par sleepingbelow, 29 avril 2010 - 12:13 .

[MEUTRIERE]

Sounds like Machiavelli knew what he was talking about.

[Aisynia]

sleepingbelow wrote...

it would be William Munny from Unforgiven.

I had never seen that movie, but when you mentioned it, I decided to go watch it.

Wow.