68 réponses à ce sujet

[HeyBlade789]

No shotgun for liare, shes definetly an smg pistol character

[Akinra]

Samurai_Wahoo wrote...

I really like what you got there for Liara. Not many characters that can handle shields and provide some good CC. The only problem I see with this build is how to allocate the 30pts.

Would you have it lock down subbosses at the 4th level?

I think if BW were to implement this they would have to be real careful as to balancing it well. I could see it being very OP.

Absolutely, if there was to be a build like this she would be one of the most useful squad members. I suppose to stop it being too overpowered you could have stasis not affecting bosses/sub-bosses, it could just stun them for a few seconds. Or it still puts them in stasis but not for as long and they can't recieve damage while in stasis. Also, rather then just losing bonuses against armour, the total damage of your weapons are reduced e.g. at level 1 enemies in stasis only receive 50% of the weapons damage (maybe even as far as only 50% of weapons base damage and upgrades are ignored).

In terms of allocating points, I would only have one in pull, max stasis and overload and then passive up to the 3rd level.

[Samurai_Wahoo]

That is probably how I would set it up, depending on the passives.



I was thinking about the biotic bubble on the suicide run and I feel like that would be a great power.



So another revised Kaiden build:

Incinerate

Throw

Passive: Squad bonus for one evolution and individual for the other.

Biotic Bubble: Evolution option #1: Small radial bubble, but very strong. Can really only fit one teammate in it. #2 Wide Bubble that can fit the whole squad, but is weaker.



Function of the bubble, to keep enemies out and keep enemy fire from getting in. Teammate(s) can fire out of bubble, but Kaiden can not. He is supporting the bubble. I think it would be interesting if someone would use this bubble as the loyalty power seeing that Shep can not do any killing, but it would be a great way to get a breather.

[Omega-202]

Samurai_Wahoo wrote...

That is probably how I would set it up, depending on the passives.

I was thinking about the biotic bubble on the suicide run and I feel like that would be a great power.

So another revised Kaiden build:
Incinerate
Throw
Passive: Squad bonus for one evolution and individual for the other.
Biotic Bubble: Evolution option #1: Small radial bubble, but very strong. Can really only fit one teammate in it. #2 Wide Bubble that can fit the whole squad, but is weaker.

Function of the bubble, to keep enemies out and keep enemy fire from getting in. Teammate(s) can fire out of bubble, but Kaiden can not. He is supporting the bubble. I think it would be interesting if someone would use this bubble as the loyalty power seeing that Shep can not do any killing, but it would be a great way to get a breather.

That's WAY too different from anything we've seen and makes very little sense in terms of a cover based shooter where clustering up is such a bad idea.  

I still support the return of Damping for Kaiden.  If you give him a Barrier/Shield stripping tech ability to complement Incinerate he covers all 4 defenses like Miranda giving us a secondary "all around" Sentinel with a different flavor.  

[Samurai_Wahoo]

That was kind of the point. I want him to be different than Miranda and serve a different utility. I know I would have loved a bubble on the platform fight at the end, Scion husk rush, narrow walkways, or just placing Kaiden somewhere I can run freely through to a flank for that strategic edge.

EDIT:  Thinking about it, I would not be opposed to Proton Rounds coming back and I would use it as Kaiden's loyalty power or whoever.

Modifié par Samurai_Wahoo, 25 avril 2010 - 06:18 .

[Akinra]

Does disruptor ammo not do the same thing as proton rounds?



I like the idea of damping returning as well (but then Kasumi's flashbang does something similar I think). Maybe as a variation on the bubble, rather than one large bubble (like the suicide run) an ability that places a strong biotic barrier around all squad mates for a brief period of time. That way they're not restricted to one small area.

[Samurai_Wahoo]

Proton rounds passed through enemy shields for 50% DMG while still doing damage to shields. I think in ME it was 50% pierce and -20% to overall DMG. It was less than desirable in ME, but I think with a few tweaks it would be a nice ability.

[Omega-202]

Samurai_Wahoo wrote...

Proton rounds passed through enemy shields for 50% DMG while still doing damage to shields. I think in ME it was 50% pierce and -20% to overall DMG. It was less than desirable in ME, but I think with a few tweaks it would be a nice ability.

Not really. 

There's already an issue with the current system where all control or physics based abilities are useless with protection being up.  

If you make it so that defenses don't need to be stripped in order to kill an enemy, you're then COMPLETELY removing the viability of Pull, Throw, Slam, Neural Shock, Cryo Blast, AI Hacking, Shockwave, Concussive Shot, Dominate, Warp detonations and the secondary effects of a lot of ammo powers.

That sounds like a terrible design decision.  

[tonnactus]

Samurai_Wahoo wrote...

I really like what you got there for Liara. Not many characters that can handle shields and provide some good CC. The only problem I see with this build is how to allocate the 30pts.

Would you have it lock down subbosses at the 4th level?

I think if BW were to implement this they would have to be real careful as to balancing it well. I could see it being very OP.

It would be great if liara had a 50 percent cooldown on powers at the cost of some pity weapon damage bonuses(25 percent)  in her class talent.

[DaVanguard]

since kaiden is a sentinel shouldnt he have tech armor place it in the same place as kasumi's shadow strike

[Samurai_Wahoo]

Omega-202 wrote...

Samurai_Wahoo wrote...

Proton rounds passed through enemy shields for 50% DMG while still doing damage to shields. I think in ME it was 50% pierce and -20% to overall DMG. It was less than desirable in ME, but I think with a few tweaks it would be a nice ability.

Not really. 

There's already an issue with the current system where all control or physics based abilities are useless with protection being up.  

If you make it so that defenses don't need to be stripped in order to kill an enemy, you're then COMPLETELY removing the viability of Pull, Throw, Slam, Neural Shock, Cryo Blast, AI Hacking, Shockwave, Concussive Shot, Dominate, Warp detonations and the secondary effects of a lot of ammo powers.

That sounds like a terrible design decision.  

Thats why I side with some tweaks it could work.  Even in ME, Proton would not kill an enemy before their defenses would go down.  It just softened them up a bit.  All those abilities there would still be there for clean up.  Balance it to a point where Proton rounds become a simple jab to health and the knock out powers are still useful. 

[Omega-202]

Samurai_Wahoo wrote...

Omega-202 wrote...

Samurai_Wahoo wrote...

Proton rounds passed through enemy shields for 50% DMG while still doing damage to shields. I think in ME it was 50% pierce and -20% to overall DMG. It was less than desirable in ME, but I think with a few tweaks it would be a nice ability.

Not really. 

There's already an issue with the current system where all control or physics based abilities are useless with protection being up.  

If you make it so that defenses don't need to be stripped in order to kill an enemy, you're then COMPLETELY removing the viability of Pull, Throw, Slam, Neural Shock, Cryo Blast, AI Hacking, Shockwave, Concussive Shot, Dominate, Warp detonations and the secondary effects of a lot of ammo powers.

That sounds like a terrible design decision.  

Thats why I side with some tweaks it could work.  Even in ME, Proton would not kill an enemy before their defenses would go down.  It just softened them up a bit.  All those abilities there would still be there for clean up.  Balance it to a point where Proton rounds become a simple jab to health and the knock out powers are still useful. 

See that's the thing though, the concept itself is bad.

Why bypass the defenses if you're just going to be stripping them off anyway?  All it ends up being is a 20% damage reduction and a smaller window to use the "health only" abilities.  

The only conceivable benefit would be to get the kill WITHOUT lowering the defenses and that goes back to the problem I stated.

Lets put it this way:

An enemy has 80 protection and 120 health.  Normally, each shot you take does 40 damage.  That's 5 shots to kill them, 2 to strip and 3 to take down the health.  

Now with Proton Rounds, assuming NO loss in power does 20 to top layer and 20 to health.  It still takes 5 shots to kill, but now, you're worse off.
It now takes 4 shots to take down their protection, not 2 but it still takes the same number of shots to kill them.  That means that you spent an extra two shots to strip their defenses with NO benefit and A PENALTY of not being able to use your powers for TWO extra shots.  

The entire concept is flawed.  Its automatically a penalty no matter how you look at it.

And this is ignoring the fact that it doesn't fit Kaidan's concept at all.  

[Samurai_Wahoo]

Then tweak it to make it desirable, add some flavor to it. Give it a radial effect like Incendiary Heavy or make it worthless to armored foes, but give it bonuses to shielded enemies and minor bonuses to barrier enemies.



If it could have...

5 meter radius

Base DMG to shielded enemies and a minor penalty to barrier (no sense running numbers now)

No DMG to health when foe is armored

Stun effect to defenseless enemies, minor though.

(All of this is off the top of my head, so I expect there to be holes)



I think this and whatever BW magic dust they sprinkle on it would be useful ammo power. Not in all situations, but it is something different.



As far as concept goes, it is a matter of opinion and there is really no point to arguing it. IMO, Proton rounds scream Tech, Kaiden is well versed in Tech. So, I will just leave it at that.



Also, why not use your time and energy to make it work instead of dismissing it altogether? We are not competing and my intention is not to take away Damping, hell I like it, give it to him also.



We are just speculating and putting our creative minds to work. Have fun with it, you are coming off a bit abrasive and there is no need for that. So if you would like tell me how it would work.

[Tlazolteotl]

HeyBlade789 wrote...

No shotgun for liare, shes definetly an smg pistol character

I dunno about that ... in ME1 Liara had no training in any weapon. At all.
So she was best suited with whatever weapon you had to give her with the best stats.
I think she ended up using the AR for me ('cos I had spare spectre 7 ARs).

[Akinra]

Samurai_Wahoo wrote...

Then tweak it to make it desirable, add some flavor to it. Give it a radial effect like Incendiary Heavy or make it worthless to armored foes, but give it bonuses to shielded enemies and minor bonuses to barrier enemies.

If it could have...
5 meter radius
Base DMG to shielded enemies and a minor penalty to barrier (no sense running numbers now)
No DMG to health when foe is armored
Stun effect to defenseless enemies, minor though.
(All of this is off the top of my head, so I expect there to be holes)

That sounds like some sort of tech grenade which seems very similar to area overload to me.

Honestly I don't think any more ammo powers are needed. I was never even that big a fan of ammo being a power, I prefered it as a weapon upgrade like in ME1. We already have disruptor ammo to damage shields and synthetics, and incendiary/armour piercing/warp ammo to damage armour and health (and barriers in the case of warp).

[naledgeborn]

Bump

[Samurai_Wahoo]

So, I just finished the The Justicar recruitment and began to reflect on the battle with Captain Wasea. I want the ability to pick up explosive crates, toxic, crates, cannisters, or whatever else and chuck it with some biotics at an enemy. I do not care who gets the ability, but I want someone to have a biotic toss (a better name eludes me). I would love to be able to pick up some cover and smack an enemy with it.

[Gravbh]

I imagine that Ash/Kaiden would have to be very close to each other, maybe 1 skill difference. Kind of like Samara/Morinth, since you can only have 1 of them. I can't see that bioware would make your PLOT choices from the first game drastically change your GAMEPLAY options in the 3rd. That wouldn't be a good game design choice imo.

[FoFoZem]

Samurai_Wahoo wrote...

So, I just finished the The Justicar recruitment and began to reflect on the battle with Captain Wasea. I want the ability to pick up explosive crates, toxic, crates, cannisters, or whatever else and chuck it with some biotics at an enemy. I do not care who gets the ability, but I want someone to have a biotic toss (a better name eludes me). I would love to be able to pick up some cover and smack an enemy with it.

You can throw those crates. You just have to curve the throw right so it hits the enemy or near it