228 réponses à ce sujet

[Costin_Razvan]

You are trying to define them as you would define a person in this modern age. Note Dragon Age takes place in a Medieval Fantasy setting, where NO MAN, no matter how much so called honor he had would turn away from raping a woman after a hard battle. ( I don't consider Alistair a man btw, in case you are going to bring him up )

In fact rape for warriors started to stop only in the 18 th century, and that is when it started. It barely stopped at the end of the 20th century.

The thing to remember is that they are in a desperate situation, where they know they WILL die.

I am sorry if this goes against your love for Zevran, but the fact is in that a situation similar to what they were going through, a rape WOULD happen 100%.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 27 avril 2010 - 08:23 .

[ejoslin]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

You are trying to define them as you would define a person in this modern age. Note Dragon Age takes place in a Medieval Fantasy setting, where NO MAN, no matter how much so called honor he had would turn away from raping a woman after a hard battle.

In fact rape for warriors started to stop only in the 18 th century, and that is when it started. It barely stopped at the end of the 20th century.

The thing to remember is that they are in a desperate situation, where they know they WILL die.

That has nothing to do with either rape in that situation, nor does it make them rapists.  You see no incidents of rape in game, not even after battle.  And there is no indication in the world of DAO that rape is commonplace.

Edit: And you're putting your spin on them.  There is no indication in game that they are rapists.

Modifié par ejoslin, 27 avril 2010 - 08:24 .

[Costin_Razvan]

And there is no indication in the world of DAO that rape is commonplace

Two words. Orlais, Chevaliers. Have fun with that.

[ejoslin]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

And there is no indication in the world of DAO that rape is commonplace

Two words. Orlais, Chevaliers. Have fun with that.

And that has to do with Zevran or Oghren how?  This was something that was recoiled at in Ferelden.

Edit: In the game, this was considered HORRIBLE.  Anyway, done arguing about it.  There's nothing to indicate that Zevran or Oghren would rape anyone, and in fact David Gaider made a point of saying that Zevran was NOT a rapist.  *shrug*

Modifié par ejoslin, 27 avril 2010 - 08:27 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Go ahead and live in your fantasy world. Meanwhile I will attend to making a REALISTIC scenario. I do not care how DG and the other writers painted the world, making your companions ( save Loghain ) as being some good guys. 

You have assassins, who basically slept with men/women and then killed them, or used them. You have a blood mage, you have a drunken warrior who killed a man in Orzammar, a golem which doesn't mind slaughtering anyone in it's path, a qunari who killed a family in cold blood, an ignorant old mage who would kill you herself if you do not abide by her moral code and a bastard prince who is drunk about revenge he would do anything for it.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 27 avril 2010 - 08:30 .

[AnniLau]

We're talking about the guy who speaks up pretty much every time you're about to do something bad to people he considers unable to help themselves...decide to annul the Circle or slaughter the Dalish and you will  hear about it from Zev. I just don't see him going "Oh hey! Helpless female! Yay!"

Plus, assassin though he may be, he makes it pretty clear that his modus operandi is seduction, which is about as far from rape as you can get.

Modifié par AnniLau, 27 avril 2010 - 08:29 .

[ejoslin]

Edit: Deleted my snark!

Modifié par ejoslin, 27 avril 2010 - 08:29 .

[TheOrtReport]

Oh wow, I hadn't even bothered to read the stories until just now.

And here I was thinking I was voting for a fun game.

And your justification for Zevran and Oghren raping Velanna is ridiculous, by the way.

But uhm have fun..

Modifié par TheOrtReport, 27 avril 2010 - 08:31 .

[ejoslin]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Go ahead and live in your fantasy world. Meanwhile I will attend to making a REALISTIC scenario.

Looking forward to you actually making one 

[Costin_Razvan]

and what would your scenario be? They get on the Island, kill each other in honorable ways upfront without people reacting or stopping them, and without any further action.



Be serious.

[Charsen]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

You are trying to define them as you would define a person in this modern age. Note Dragon Age takes place in a Medieval Fantasy setting, where NO MAN, no matter how much so called honor he had would turn away from raping a woman after a hard battle. ( I don't consider Alistair a man btw, in case you are going to bring him up )

In fact rape for warriors started to stop only in the 18 th century, and that is when it started. It barely stopped at the end of the 20th century.

The thing to remember is that they are in a desperate situation, where they know they WILL die.

I am sorry if this goes against your love for Zevran, but the fact is in that a situation similar to what they were going through, a rape WOULD happen 100%.

sorry... not every man is a born rapist restricted from his natural urges by the whims of society alone, and the claim to the contrary is just ignorant and insulting. to claim that 100% of the billions of men living or dead would automatically turn into violent sex offenders if given the chance is well, silly

but it's your fantasy world, it's your weird fanfic, but i certainly am not returning to see it through

[Tellervo]

Yup. Raperaperape, that's all I think about when I'm in a stressful situation.



Maybe you should look into some of the research on the psychology of rape before deciding to use it to add "realism" to your story.

[Costin_Razvan]

Ah yes. killing someone in a video game is considered normal, dealing death sentences is normal, but hey actually creating a realistic scenarion is weird.

Seriously? I did not say everyone was that. In fact I specificly made Loghain act the way he did for a bloody reason, Sten would not approve, neither Nathaniel, Anders, Alistair etc.

I find ignorant to say that everyone in society would act a certain good way, when we have all the evidence to the contrary. There are a lot of people who would do terrible things without the whim of society, that is a fact.

 Maybe you should look into some of the research on the psychology of rape before deciding to use it to add "realism" to your story.

 

I do not need to look at psychology. I have all the evidence I need in history. Every time such an oportunity presented some people have taken it. WW2 and Russian mass rapes ( Do I really need to say how girl from 8 year old+ were raped when Berlin fell? ) The Japaneze and their pleasure Batalions.

I would not even begin to say how mostly after victories in the middle ages rape was considered the victor's prize. a sort of pay for the common soldier.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 27 avril 2010 - 08:44 .

[ejoslin]

Neither Zevran nor Oghren would approve either. There's a lot more indication that Zevran would not approve (including, again, David Gaider confirmed last time this nonsense came up that Zevran was NOT a rapist) but I seriously doubt that Oghren would approve either.

Edit: Of course, you know FAR more about Zevran than his creator, I'm sure 

Modifié par ejoslin, 27 avril 2010 - 08:45 .

[Highdragonslayer]

Sorry dude you ruined your thread

[Costin_Razvan]

Highdragonslayer wrote...

Sorry dude you ruined your thread

Perhaps I ruined the poll, but truth be told I find this whole situation interesting. How people screamed for Velanna to die, with "off with her head." and such comments.

And when you give her a truly gruesome death people are like "What?"

[TheOrtReport]

Secondy, why can't we vote to kill the warden? Wondering this because :

A. Because I want to

and

B. It wouldn't make sense for a character to be immune from death in the "gritty realism" world you set up

Modifié par TheOrtReport, 27 avril 2010 - 08:48 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Realism is why I added the four golems the warden controls, and only answer to herself. Good luck killing her.

She doesn't get a death immunity card by default, so far she only killed characters who were not in a position to defend themselves, things will change with people like Sten, Oghren etc.

 Of course, you know FAR more about Zevran than his creator, I'm sure  

I did not claim to know him better then DG. What I claimed is that given the situation, where he knows he is going to die no matter what ( that is set up on purpose considering voting numbers ) he would do things he would not normally do.

I did not claim this is how Zevran acted normally, in fact I consider quite a special situation, and the fact is that situation IS quite special.

Just to make a special note: I do no hate Velanna, or Zevran, or Oghren for that matter. In fact I quite like em as characters.

Even the most honorable, honest person can turn into a monster given the right situation, it's how humans are.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 27 avril 2010 - 08:53 .

[AnniLau]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

And when you give her a truly gruesome death people are like "What?"

No one is objecting to her death, it's what was going on while she was still living that's at issue.

Now that you mention it though, I've found the death scenes so far to be incredibly lame and pointless. They're supposedly eating each other for practicality's sake, to survive, so why make such a big production over it? Why not a  quick, clean death and then on to dinner?

Let me guess...are you a fan of the torture-porn brand of horror movies?

[Costin_Razvan]

Let me guess...are you a fan of the torture-porn brand of horror movies?

Not really, no. I just wanted to make the deaths as painfully as I could for story sake.



For crying out loud they are eating each other, how the hell do you expect a clean death in such a situation?!

[AnniLau]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

For crying out loud they are eating each other, how the hell do you expect a clean death in such a situation?!

Because it isn't actually necessary to torture someone before killing them. And, presuming your Warden is friends with at least some of the prospective meals, I don't see why they'd want  to torture them.

[sami jo]

Magically, in all those stories about people who *did* resort to cannibalism, rape is not something that happened. I am trying to figure out why you think Zevran and Oghren would be hunky dory with raping someone but Sten and Alistair would not. To accuse all men of being rapists in waiting is pretty nasty, particularly since rape is a crime about power, not sex. But hey, why let a little reality impinge on your gritty "reality". I can't really see any of these people deliberately torturing their comrades to death. One would think your warden would at least have afforded her beloved dog a quick death.



You're going for shock value, not realism; or if this is really how you would behave in such a situation, I sincerely hope you find some psychological help.

[Costin_Razvan]

The Warden, yes. In fact it's why she gives Velanna a quick death, to spare her of her misery. Regarding Dog, she didn't want to damage otherwise edible organs and same for Wynne.

 To accuse all men of being rapists in waiting is pretty nasty, particularly since rape is a crime about power, not sex.

I am not accusing all men of such, in fact I make a point of not doing it.  But to assume EVERYONE would behave in a nice, orderly fashion in such a situation is idiotic.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 27 avril 2010 - 09:04 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Wow, interesting what happened to this thread.

[Costin_Razvan]

Well, that is what happens when you throw something that the mainstream doesn't accept. Killing = Ok, rape = bad basically, if I am understanding this thread well enough. I was curios to see how people would react to my post, somehow I am not surprised.