74 réponses à ce sujet

[Relinquished2]

Isn't there a Canon ending already? Ah, Yes, it's called New Game without choosing your ME1 savegame.



Canon ending in ME1:

- Wrex died on vermire.

- Shepard left the council to die.

- Fist survives.

- Shepard was Renegade.

- Udina got the council possition.

- Rachni Queen died.

- ect. ect.

[mcsupersport]

Collider wrote...

[Archereon]

Lumiya03 wrote...

Acheron I am not saying the game was not a little predictable. Mr.fool over there was talking about combat not story...that is why I laid into him. I respect your viewpoint even though I do not Agree with it completely, you have some valid points. I just hate when people hate just to be different. You actually have a stance I can have a real conversation about.

Likewise Lumiya.  The main reason I'm hoping for a canon backstory for ME3 is because I've really lost faith that Bioware can create continuity between two standalone games in a manner that isn't utterly dissapointing. 

Better, I mused, for there to be one immutable story, with the solidity of stone, then for there to a legion weak backstories that need to have once vital elements in them sidelined.

Relinquished2: That's a default story, not a canon story.

Modifié par Archereon, 24 avril 2010 - 09:01 .

[Landline]

Relinquished2 wrote...

Isn't there a Canon ending already? Ah, Yes, it's called New Game without choosing your ME1 savegame.

That isn't canon, thats the "I guess this bloke didn't play ME1 so lets get rid of these things they won't know anything about" ending.

[Relinquished2]

Lumiya03 wrote...

Relinquished2: That's a default story, not a canon story.

How is that not the canon story?

If you don't own ME1 and you start ME2 without any ME1 savegames. wouldn't the designers make the canon ending in ME1 themselfs?

They'll do it again in ME3 you know, if you don't have an ME2 savegame. For all we know ME3 might start with us finding out that the reaper ship is still intact while most of us chose to destroy it in our ME2 story.

So basicly the New Game without previous savegame is the Canon.

[Landline]

Relinquished2 wrote...

So basicly the New Game without previous savegame is the Canon.

See my last post.

Mass Effect does not have a clear set canon reguarding how ingame events take place, and untill such time as some bloke from Bioware comes and says "This is the canon" there will be none.

[Nivenus]

No.



But frankly, I'm not worried about it. Even in regards to KotOR, which by necessity has a canonized ending due to the size and detail of the Star Wars universe, Drew Kapryshyn has made a point of never addressing Revan's canonical actions in the Darth Bane novels. I see no reason to expect a different policy in ME, which BioWare has direct control over.

[Zulu_DFA]

Lumiya03 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Ah, yes... "BIG CHOICES"...

I do still hope, they will have heavy impact in ME, so that's a negative, OP.

Besides, Mass Effect was ripped off everything good it used to have and ME2 is just a 3rd person console (=bad) shooter. So I just won't have any reason to buy ME3, if the CHOICES have no meaning at all.

so are you just speaking out of the gaping hole you sit on most of the day or what?
first of all if you don't like the console controls, it is on computer so go QQ about that somewhere else.
secondly bad shooter? okay don't know which crack your smoking today but I am pretty sure gamers and reviewers alike PRAISED the IMPROVED combat. WE are NOT talking about rpg/shooter balancing we are talking straight combat here. You sir are a fool if you think combat was not improved.
Do I personally want a good step back into more RPG waters...yes, yes I do, but please people need to stop with this I'm too cool for school so I am going to hate what most people like trip they are on.

I never thought of Mass Effect as a shooter in the first place.

Now they make ME2, to be a shooter. By improving the shooter elements of an RPG. Still they fall short of making a good shooter.

In a good shooter there should be enemies with different AI, and variative level design. In ME2 there are two types of enemy AI: ranged and melee. And level design is one and the same: a set of rooms with lots of crates. And ME1 had snipers and support troops. And wide open space "levels". And ducking.

BTW. Hybrids are usually sterile.

[Lumiya03]

Archereon wrote...

Likewise Lumiya.  The main reason I'm hoping for a canon backstory for ME3 is because I've really lost faith that Bioware can create continuity between two standalone games in a manner that isn't utterly dissapointing. 

Better, I mused, for there to be one immutable story, with the solidity of stone, then for there to a legion weak backstories that need to have once vital elements in them sidelined.

Relinquished2: That's a default story, not a canon story.

My question is why in the default story do they kill wrex/rachni queen!? I am hoping for the main game of ME3 to be "recruiting" the different species and building an army...it would be really awesome if the rachni queen jumped in and saved your life or something if you saved her. I personally have no Idea how ME3 will work, I am confused because we have what is it 16 (correct me if I am wrong) possible squad mates (if no one died)? how is bioware going to choose who is recruitable? I am hoping they just have  all of them unless they died in your story!

back to what you said though, I don't know if it is so much weak backstories (maybe a couple squadmates jacob comes to mind immediately) as too many backstories to have true variation, at least if we are just talking squaddies. ME1 had 6 party members all had great stories...ME2 doubled that, that is a lot of characters (a few of which could have been left out). Hopefully they either flesh out all characters or...well I don't know thats why Bioware makes the bucks eh? lol

[Nivenus]

Lumiya03 wrote...

I am confused because we have what is it 16 (correct me if I am wrong) possible squad mates (if no one died)?

Yes. In order of recruitment:

1. Kaidan
2. Ashley
3/4/5. Garrus
3/4/5. Wrex
4/5. Tali
6. Liara
7. Jacob
8. Miranda
9/10/11. Mordin
9/10/11. Jack
9/10/11. Grunt
12/13. Thane
12/13. Samara
14. Legion
15/16. Zaeed
15/16. Kasumi

As far as romances are concerned, there's twelve, if you count quasi-examples like Kelly and Samara:

1. Kaidan
2. Ashley
3. Liara
4. Garrus
5. Tali
6. Jacob
7. Miranda
8. Jack
9. Thane
11. Kelly
12. Samara

In spite of this, I have faith in BioWare's ability to cover these all, so long as they don't rush ME3 out the door.

[RhythmlessNinja]

mcsupersport wrote...

Collider wrote...

[Lumiya03]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

I never thought of Mass Effect as a shooter in the first place.

Now they make ME2, to be a shooter. By improving the shooter elements of an RPG. Still they fall short of making a good shooter.

In a good shooter there should be enemies with different AI, and variative level design. In ME2 there are two types of enemy AI: ranged and melee. And level design is one and the same: a set of rooms with lots of crates. And ME1 had snipers and support troops. And wide open space "levels". And ducking.

BTW. Hybrids are usually sterile.

Well what can I say, your right. A good shooter should definately be held up to your standards. Ill be sure to run all games past you just to be sure of thier genre. /s

guess everyone else was wrong then eh? bad shooter, bad story, bad level design...wow I didn't realize what a ****ty game this is, so your on these forums why?

too bad idiots arn't sterile we would have a lot less running around spouting stupid bull**** that doesn't make sense.

feel free to go play a different game or don't buy the next installment, Bioware will still make millions and I wont have to sit here and argue with you over what you think a shooter should be and what a shooter actually is.

[Ray Joel Oh]

Collider wrote...

[Lumiya03]

Nivenus wrote...

Lumiya03 wrote...

I am confused because we have what is it 16 (correct me if I am wrong) possible squad mates (if no one died)?

Yes. In order of recruitment:

1. Kaidan
2. Ashley
3/4/5. Garrus
3/4/5. Wrex
4/5. Tali
6. Liara
7. Jacob
8. Miranda
9/10/11. Mordin
9/10/11. Jack
9/10/11. Grunt
12/13. Thane
12/13. Samara
14. Legion
15/16. Zaeed
15/16. Kasumi

As far as romances are concerned, there's twelve, if you count quasi-examples like Kelly and Samara:

1. Kaidan
2. Ashley
3. Liara
4. Garrus
5. Tali
6. Jacob
7. Miranda
8. Jack
9. Thane
11. Kelly
12. Samara

In spite of this, I have faith in BioWare's ability to cover these all, so long as they don't rush ME3 out the door.

I have complete faith also! I just think if there was going to be any sort of issue with story it would be because of how many squadmates they will have to write for (not including new ones. I personally think they will add at least a few new squad mates. so then they would have more!) I just think it is a lot and my best wishes to bioware on finishing this great franchise correctly

[Zulu_DFA]

Lumiya03 wrote...

so your on these forums why?

Because of Mass Effect One

Bioware will still make millions

And so will Larry Flynt.

[Lambu1]

this isnt my name wrote...

Collider wrote...

Archereon wrote...

Collider wrote...

YESSSS...

Ah, you are a worthy adversary inded, but I have at last found a picture to match yours...

Modifié par Lambu1, 24 avril 2010 - 10:21 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Archereon wrote...

Seeing as Bioware has, up until this date, epic failed in all their continuity enabled games (AKA: DA:O--> Awakenings, returning characters=those who cannot possibley die or not be in your part.  And ME-->ME2, "Ah yes, Reapers.")

I've actually begun rooting for (though it will never happen in Mass Effect) a canonized storyline for ME1 and ME2 for ME3, and a canonize storyline for DA:O.  If it keeps the storyline from dissolving into the utter sh!t Mass Effect 2's story line turned out to be (don't pull the "Oh, you try writing a story then" on me, in the same window of time the bioware writers came up with their lololololol pew pew story, I could have created something at least half decent.)

then destroying our choices in previous games is a worthy sacrifice.

My short answer would be the pic of Sten saying NO.

My long answer would be, get lost!

You want a 'canon/default' story for Shep in ME3, simple, start a new game.

Anyone trying to claim that the ME2 wasn't canon, no to some extent your it isn't, but then again it IS for a new player who hasn't played the previous 2 games and thus not done anything that would alter how Shep starts off in ME2. Likewise the same will apply for 'NEW' games in ME3.

Meanwhile the rest of us can happily play with the Sheps we import with the decisions we made whether important or not.

It isn't rocket science.

[Zulu_DFA]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...
Anyone trying to claim that the ME2 wasn't canon, no to some extent your it isn't, but then again it IS for a new player who hasn't played the previous 2 games and thus not done anything that would alter how Shep starts off in ME2. Likewise the same will apply for 'NEW' games in ME3.

Meanwhile the rest of us can happily play with the Sheps we import with the decisions we made whether important or not.

What the OP is trying to purport is that by trying to spread the budget and other resources among all possible repercussions BioWare fails at properly accounting for any of them, and therefore it's desirable that they commit all resources to the default Sheploo line.

But I believe the reason for the weak accounting for ME1 choices in ME2 is that there is ME3 coming, and it really imposes certain limitations. If ME2 allowed us to branch out on ME1 choices, that would make it virtually impossible  for ME3 to acoount for all of those repercussions.

But with ME2 adding just the same amount of BIG CHOICES to the heap as ME1, I believe it's still doable. Unless they deciede to "listen to the fans" and bring back as many expendable squadmates as possible. Then the main plot resources will be trimmed severely and ME3 will end up with another hundred of "thank you" e-mails and a text epilogue.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 24 avril 2010 - 11:04 .

[BatarianBob]

"Ah yes, 'Reapers'" has nothing to do with the lack of a "canon" story. It's also completely consistant with the character that said it.

[Steel Dancer]

As I neither need nor want a canon ball to the face...

Collider wrote...

I like the choices i have for my various Sheps and want to see them play out as is.

[Ride2Ruin25]

I think for all intents and purposes, the default backstory for ME2 can be considered 'canon,' because if you read 'Ascension,' it is implied that the original Council was left to die, but the one replacing was the human-led coalition, and not just purely human, just like the default set-up for ME2. From what I can tell for the summary of the next book, it sounds like the final decision the 'canon' Shepard made regarding the Collector Base was to save it, given that TIM somehow acquires Reaper tech. To play devil's advocate to myself, however, Cerberus had enough Reaper tech to make EDI, so maybe they've got some more lying around.



In short, I don't think 'canon' can really apply to ME, becaue the whole idea is to build your own path through the story that Bioware is telling, hence some of the choice/plot limitations. If someone is determined to pick out some sort of canon plot, then they might as well try to draw from the books and official non-game fiction.



P.S. I fully support whatever Bioware is planning for ME3, because to me, the sheer scale and complexity of trying to determine the effects of different choices and such is indeed daunting, and perhaps unreasonable for Bioware from an efficiency standpoint. That said, I think that Bioware, of all companies, would have the balls to take the time and make the effort to pull it off. I mean, just THINK of ME3's narrative potential, based on the multitude of choices and events from the previous games...to me, that's pretty goddamned incredible.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

If you didn't like this story what makes you think you'd like any other story bioware could come up with?

[Archereon]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

If you didn't like this story what makes you think you'd like any other story bioware could come up with?

You wallow in your ignornace, unable even to comprehend the nature of my thoughts.  I am a nation, free of all weakness.  Only we are beyond the influence of time.  The discord of organic life is changed by mere centuries, and your primative culture in mere decades.

Modifié par Archereon, 25 avril 2010 - 02:08 .

[kraidy1117]