53 réponses à ce sujet

[sylvanaerie]

Lowenhart wrote...

Its part of the gauntlets trials its not the real Jowan, if you refuse to answer the gaurdians question he wont appear, and you wont recieve the reflection amulet, its part of the gauntlets test about facing your past, and later yourself, when facing your own reflections.

He still appears you just don't get the amulet.  I have taken the "My answer is my own" Option most times.  Inventory starts getting pretty full at that point in the temple.

[ashez2ashes]

It's really too bad you couldn't have conscripted him.... Eamon's reaction would have been priceless.

[BHRamsay]

Lowenhart wrote...

Its part of the gauntlets trials its not the real Jowan, if you refuse to answer the gaurdians question he wont appear, and you wont recieve the reflection amulet, its part of the gauntlets test about facing your past, and later yourself, when facing your own reflections.

I assure you I was aware that the Jowan at the temple was just a phantom -- somehow that doesn't lessen my desire to kick him in the nads when I see him.

Modifié par BHRamsay, 26 avril 2010 - 12:45 .

[Aisynia]

You're just jealous.

[BHRamsay]

Aisynia wrote...

You're just jealous.

*snicker*
I got Alistair and Zev ... and all the Zev-fangirls & boys have finally convinced me to try for something serious with him. Jowan has nothing on a smooth talking elf assassin.

Modifié par BHRamsay, 26 avril 2010 - 01:17 .

[Aisynia]

Jowan makes stupid, stupid decisions, but he's probably one of the single most human characters because of this.



Beneath it all, Jowan is a good person who has nothing but the best of intentions. Unfortunately, he screws up over and over again. If you could conscript him and guide him and give him a real chance, I think he would amaze you. He's a competent and skilled mage, he just has poor common sense.. that's not something to consign someone to death over.



What he did to Eamon was wrong, but when you are approached by Teyrn Loghain, the Hero of River Dane, Hero of Ferelden, Regent, and overall badass who everyone loves and trusts.. why aren't you going to believe him?



Remember that most people in the game believe his propaganda, because they have no reason not to. What ultimately happened at Redcliffe was Isolde's fault, and Loghain's fault. Jowan was a pawn in a very ugly game, and I think he learned his lesson after that, as heavy as the price may have been.



Isolde's pure hubris doomed Redcliffe, not any mage or demon.

[Raiil]

I doubt it. Even if Jowan is shown mercy, he'll be made Tranquil at the very least. Any usefullness he'd have would basically to be a Sandal-like character.





Eh, I didn't care for Jowan. I'm glad he's not recruitable. :/

[BHRamsay]

I RP my mages both male and female as being friends with Jowan at the onset. His lies felt like a betrayal and in light of some of the propaganda that mages get shoved at them in the tower ... his betrayal kind of hurts.

I asked him point blank as a friend to be straight with me the person he knew and said he trusted and he screwed me. Then he complicates the matter by making an already difficult job much harder ... the only reason you end up at the Sacred Ashes is to save Eamon so yeah everything you go though as a result of that quest, including potentially losing Sten, Lilliana and Wynne i could blame on Jowan.

My feelings are purely RP based. Had I ever ratted him out to Irving then his being at the Gauntlet would be a great way for me to deal with my guilt.  But I was faithful to my friend and that choice to be faithful bit me in the @ss not once, but twice.

So no I don't want him dead and I'm going to have to rethink turning him over for tranquilizing --especially in light of some of the arguments posted here-- but Maker help me, If the option was in there I would kick him in the daddy-bags so hard

Modifié par BHRamsay, 26 avril 2010 - 01:54 .

[Swoo]

I actually really do like Jowan. He's not the most confident, nor the most powerful around, but in the end you give him the ability to show an amazing amount of heart (Going into the Fade, refusing to deal with the Demon and winning, and then you see him in the cutscene marching to Denerim).



I would like to see a DLC with him. After seeing the Mages Prison in BG2, I'd love to see what they could do with one in DA.

[Lowenhart]

Well you have to remember you can be death sentenced for being a blood mage, and the fact helping him already puts you in a delemia, i dunno if its completely uncommon he may be hesistant to tell the truth.

I mean if a friend asked you if you had commited treason, would you brush straight out of the broom closet and say yes? i think in comparison they as serious.

Secondly we do not know if Jowan initionally learned it believing it to be bad, Uldred was teaching alot of students blood magic, for all we know it could been taught of him, given even Ervin had not suspected Uldred of this or even using demonology i suppose you cant blame Jowan for being a bit guilable.

EDIT: also the fact Jowan helped to resolve the situation, might bring Gregoir to send him to the mage prison rather than execute him straight of the table, giving him thinking time aswell as being able to oversee the mages circle being rebuilt, afterall Gregoir doesnt seem a man to make to hasty decisisions.

Modifié par Lowenhart, 26 avril 2010 - 09:47 .

[devilsgrin]

Since its fairly obvious that Jowan all-set to be included as a companion, it would only make sense for that option to be made available to us. Conscripting him, as you are effectively the Commander of the Grey Wardens of Fereldan (all two of you), is an entirely valid option. Even with his "that sounds dangerous" response, anyone who has played the Human Noble origin and fought tooth and nail to not have to leave your familty behind would know that you still end up conscripted.



The reasoning i see from BioWare to NOT include him as a companion is obivous i should think. He's an Origin-Specific character. Whilst he has actions after the Mage Origin, he is introduced there, you fight by his side, and you have "history". Were Jowan to be included, a representative from each origin would have to join you too... (Leske, Gorim, Ser Gilmore, Soris or Shianna, Tamlan would have made GREAT companions).



Also, it seemed a consious BioWare decision to give the party only Male WARRIORS (not counting our all too awesome pet-rock, who most people CONTINUE to mistake as male, but indeed counting Dog in this group) and female MAGES. with one of each for Rogues.

[Aisynia]

Keep in mind he is also the only origin specific character with such a large role.



Also the "woman = mage" "man = warrior" thing pisses me off.

[Huojin]

Aisynia wrote...

Keep in mind he is also the only origin specific character with such a large role.

Also the "woman = mage" "man = warrior" thing pisses me off.

This.  It's even more stupid, given all the men in the Circle. And the old MAN in charge of the giant phallus Tower.

I'd love to have Jowan recruitable but out of fangirl jealousy, I don't want Lily near us XD

I'm pretty sure being saved would be fine by her (despite her pious, martyr-wannabe "I will accept any punishment wahhh" horse poo in the origin), but I doubt she'd want to go anywhere with Jowan after what he's done.

Shame he can't be recruited; he's a well-rounded character, you have an obvious chance to 'harden' him (an obvious personal quest, and obvious lessons to learn), he's obviously stronger than he looks, the side-quest is there for you, he WANTS to help...

[ashez2ashes]

I bet Jowan wasn't included as someone you can conscript because it takes a lot of the difficulty out of the Dark Ritual decision if your a female character romancing Alistair. You can just have Jowan sleep with Morrigan... You also get an extra Warden who can take the final blow so recruiting Logain seems a lot less necessary. It kind of gives the female PC a bit more leeway than the others.

[Sarah1281]

I don't think making one decision easier for those players who happened to be in a relationship with Alistair had much to do with it. And, really, if the Warden was fine with the possible evil demon-baby she'd unleashed upon the world but insist on committing suicide or getting her BF killed because she didn't want to 'share'...yeah, I don't really have any sympathy. It might be difficult, it might destroy the relationship but getting yourself or your BF killed over it is just selfish.

[Shadeling]

Jowan irritated the hell out of me. He just struck me as such an idiot. Unless I'm playing a supremely good character, he usually doesn't make it out of Redcliffe alive in my games.

[Selej]

What's this I hear about Jowan's intention quest?

[Sarah1281]

Selej wrote...

What's this I hear about Jowan's intention quest?

It's a bugged quest only PC users can get if they release Jowan and threaten him if they ever see him again. Apparently the Chantry thinks he might be in the area and he's 'suspected' of poisoning Eamon. When you find him he's acually doing something helpful for a change and defending people against an attack and you can kill him or let him leave.

[Aulis Vaara]

I have no idea if this matters at all, but I'll just add my voice to this thread to say that "Yes, I want a DLC to add Jowan to my party as well."



It would also have been awesome to actually help him fight his way out of the tower in the Origin story, rather than just standing there.

[Tirigon]

BHRamsay wrote...

*snicker*
I got Alistair and Zev ... and all the Zev-fangirls & boys have finally convinced me to try for something serious with him. Jowan has nothing on a smooth talking elf assassin.

True, but I still want to recruit Iowan and Lily.

If only to have a blood mage Companion.

[Tirigon]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Selej wrote...

What's this I hear about Jowan's intention quest?

It's a bugged quest only PC users can get if they release Jowan and threaten him if they ever see him again. Apparently the Chantry thinks he might be in the area and he's 'suspected' of poisoning Eamon. When you find him he's acually doing something helpful for a change and defending people against an attack and you can kill him or let him leave.

How exactly do you get it? I´m on PC and never had that.....

[Aisynia]

If you tell him, "Leave, I never want to see you again", he will actually leave and be gone instead of trying to help. The quest will appear in your journal automatically after curing Arl Eamon (it is supposed to be on the chanter's board in Denerim).



When you have the quest, use the console and type:



runscript zz_ran_debug



You will get a conversation menu with choices of random encounters to go to. Choose "1. Forest" and then "4. Jowan".

[sylvanaerie]

You have to let him go when you first enter the castle using Teagan's ring. Its the only time you get the option to release him. (Asking for his release later doesn't work I hear). I feel Jowan's intentions are true that he DOES want to make up for his part in this and he accepts whatever fate he has coming to him at this point. Just releasing him seems crueler to me because it enables his horrid choices and continued spiral. Yes I know the whole final scene with him is about him making his life turn around and helping people but its a life spent on the run always looking over his shoulder and my PC has seen what that can do to a mage. *cough* Hermitinthewoods *cough*

[Balgin Stondraeg]

I actualy would like to have an adventure that involves going to The Aeonar that might feature Lily briefly in one of the prison cells (or whatever holding method is used). It would be relatively incidental rather than absolutely required for the plot. Just a nice little cameo (no rescuing her or anything).

I don't think that rescuing Lily (with her wedge shaped face and inconsistent non Ferelden accent) should be part of such an adventure to ther Aeonar but rather, that she could serve as evidence to the way the mages are treated there (instead of some generic mage prisoner).

Modifié par Balgin Stondraeg, 02 mai 2010 - 01:59 .

[sylvanaerie]

Balgin Stondraeg wrote...

I actualy would like to have an adventure that involves going to The Aeonar that might feature Lily briefly in one of the prison cells (or whatever holding method is used). It would be relatively incidental rather than absolutely required for the plot. Just a nice little cameo (no rescuing her or anything).

I don't think that rescuing Lily (with her wedge shaped face and inconsistent non Ferelden accent) should be part of such an adventure to ther Aeonar but rather, that she could serve as evidence to the way the mages are treated there (instead of some generic mage prisoner).

Kind of like Leske in Jarvia's carta hideout.  It impacts more the DC origin but everyone gets to find him and release him (If you choose to do so).