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[lazuli]

Some Dude wrote...

Question: For combat, does anybody get rid of Barrier for JT on the Shadow Broker Base using the Advanced Training thing, or do you guys prefer to let him have the power for the increased defense?

It depends on my Shepard, but yes, I generally prefer to remove all points from Barrier.  In combat, I typically find Jacob's early access to pull useful.  Once he gets Barrier, his Pull becomes a lot less reliable because of AI problems.

If I need a shotgun tank, I'll bring Grunt.  Jacob's strengths are in other areas.

[Sand King]

Jacob should have charge at lest.

[Festi]

Barrier should be a normal power... they should give Jacob something more unique and awesome given his special ops past...

[Sand King]

Festi wrote...

Barrier should be a normal power... they should give Jacob something more unique and awesome given his special ops past...

..a jet pack.

[Alexine]

Charge could work for Jacob. I mean, he has pretty decent health (which I had only realised on my last playthrough)

[lazuli]

Alexine wrote...
Maybe they should have given Jacob a defense-stripping power (Warp/Overload) than his ammo power (Grunt takes care of that)

I don't think every squadmate needs a defense stripping power though.  Jacob is useful regardless, though obviously different classes will get different results.  Let's discuss his two greatest strengths.

1) Pull: Jacob has the earliest access to Pull out of anyone in the game.  Not even Adept Shepard can get Pull without a prerequisite.  Pull is great at starting Biotic combos for Shepard or other squadmates to finish.  It also kills undefended husks instantly.  Finally, when evolved to hit an area, it can be quite useful for briefly staggering groups of defended foes in an emergency on a higher difficulty level.  Even a moment of staggering can give Shepard the time he or she needs to get into cover.  Jacob might not be able to use Pull as often as a high level Samara/Morinth or Jack, but those squadmates have prerequisites for their Pull, often preventing them from mastering a desired set of skills.

2) Incendiary Ammo: Although Jacob's ammo power might seem less useful on combat classes with their own ammo powers, keep in mind that many combat class builds focus on developing their ammo powers after mastering their class skill and passive.  Most Vanguards want to master Charge and their passive skill before focusing on Incendiary Ammo.  Jacob's Incendiary Ammo can be a stepping stone to your own ammo powers if you choose the squad form.  Or, if your class doesn't have any ammo powers and you chose not to use a bonus power for that role, Jacob has you covered.  And it's not only useful against armored foes.  Aside from stopping regeneration, Incendiary Ammo can trigger panic in organic foes, effectively shutting them down and protecting the team.

[Festi]

Sand King wrote...

Festi wrote...

Barrier should be a normal power... they should give Jacob something more unique and awesome given his special ops past...

..a jet pack.

Jet packs for Jacob!!!!  I demand that Jacob get a Jet pack in ME 3!!!!!  You hear me Bioware!?:!?!?!?!?!!?  Jetpacks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sand King]

Alexine wrote...

Charge could work for Jacob. I mean, he has pretty decent health (which I had only realised on my last playthrough)

Jacob is one of the few squadmates that can really take a lot punishment.

[Festi]

Sand King wrote...

Alexine wrote...

Charge could work for Jacob. I mean, he has pretty decent health (which I had only realised on my last playthrough)

Jacob is one of the few squadmates that can really take a lot punishment.

You're telling me... Thane is awesome and all... but he dies so much... squishy Assassins were made to stay in the shadows... not fight wars >.>''

[Sand King]

Festi wrote...

Sand King wrote...

Alexine wrote...

Charge could work for Jacob. I mean, he has pretty decent health (which I had only realised on my last playthrough)

Jacob is one of the few squadmates that can really take a lot punishment.

You're telling me... Thane is awesome and all... but he dies so much... squishy Assassins were made to stay in the shadows... not fight wars >.>''

Jack, Miranda, and Legion oddly tend to fall the most in combat. But I am unstoppable with Jacob/Zaeed/Garrus/Kasumi.

[Festi]

Legion usually holds out pretty well for me... but I usually pair him with another strong squaddie who doesn't die easily lol. I like the pull on Jacob though as Lazuli mentioned.... awesome for making combos early on

[Sand King]

I think Legion doesn't last long because of the way I play and when it comes to pull, it is very useful to pull of combo moves. Pull/Slam is really fun.

[CC-Tron]

Jake's shield strength goes up to 575 with heavy barrier. The barrier recharges every ten seconds with cooldown upgrades. Those who say his survivability isn't incresed significantly with heavy barrier are not playing efficiently. Period.  It takes two shots from a heavy missle launcher or a ton of bullets to drop the barrier and see a health bar. By then he can erect another one putting his shield back up to 575. 

Pull is great but to me Heavy Barrier and a shot gun with inferno ammo (not squad ammo) is what puts Jake above many of the others. If I had to take points out of any skill it would be incendiary because it only requires one point to panic organics and be effective. Max pull field, max heavy barrier, and max his passive skill ceberus veteran for extra health.

I max all the skills of all the squad members with the x+a glitch any way. It seems silly that Bioware didn't allow all skills to be maxed out. The squad isn't overpowered when maxed out but are definitely underpowered when not.

[CC-Tron]

Festi wrote...

Legion usually holds out pretty well for me... but I usually pair him with another strong squaddie who doesn't die easily lol. I like the pull on Jacob though as Lazuli mentioned.... awesome for making combos early on

I always bring Jake on Grunt's loyalty mission. They make a very powerful team.  Jake with Geth shotgun and Grunt with the Eviscerator (both with inferno ammo). None of those Krogan can get close. Uvenk never knew what hit him before he burned to death.

[PD ORTA]

CC-Tron wrote...


Jake's shield strength goes up to 575 with heavy barrier. The barrier recharges every ten seconds with cooldown upgrades. Those who say his survivability isn't incresed significantly with heavy barrier are not playing efficiently. Period.  It takes two shots from a heavy missle launcher or a ton of bullets to drop the barrier and see a health bar. By then he can erect another one putting his shield back up to 575. 

Pull is great but to me Heavy Barrier and a shot gun with inferno ammo (not squad ammo) is what puts Jake above many of the others. If I had to take points out of any skill it would be incendiary because it only requires one point to panic organics and be effective. Max pull field, max heavy barrier, and max his passive skill ceberus veteran for extra health.

I max all the skills of all the squad members with the x+a glitch any way. It seems silly that Bioware didn't allow all skills to be maxed out. The squad isn't overpowered when maxed out but are definitely underpowered when not.

I agree.
I allways go with Heavy Barrier as I prefer Jacob to be a "Tank". And although Grunt has more survivability I go with, I prefer Jacob's pull over Grunt's concusive shot.
The combination of high survivability, high medium range stopping power (with the GPS) and good crowd control with pull make Jacob one of my main squadmates.  

[CC-Tron]

PD ORTA wrote...

CC-Tron wrote...


Jake's shield strength goes up to 575 with heavy barrier. The barrier recharges every ten seconds with cooldown upgrades. Those who say his survivability isn't incresed significantly with heavy barrier are not playing efficiently. Period.  It takes two shots from a heavy missle launcher or a ton of bullets to drop the barrier and see a health bar. By then he can erect another one putting his shield back up to 575. 

Pull is great but to me Heavy Barrier and a shot gun with inferno ammo (not squad ammo) is what puts Jake above many of the others. If I had to take points out of any skill it would be incendiary because it only requires one point to panic organics and be effective. Max pull field, max heavy barrier, and max his passive skill ceberus veteran for extra health.

I max all the skills of all the squad members with the x+a glitch any way. It seems silly that Bioware didn't allow all skills to be maxed out. The squad isn't overpowered when maxed out but are definitely underpowered when not.

I agree.
I allways go with Heavy Barrier as I prefer Jacob to be a "Tank". And although Grunt has more survivability I go with, I prefer Jacob's pull over Grunt's concusive shot.
The combination of high survivability, high medium range stopping power (with the GPS) and good crowd control with pull make Jacob one of my main squadmates.  

Yes for me tanks rule and especially in a game with horrible AI. Miranda, Thane, Kasumi and the other squishies hardly get any use from me. Take Kasumi's loyalty mission; The final battle with Donavan Hock would be much easier if I'd have Jacob or Grunt instead of Kasumi. It's great that they have useful powers but the offset is that they're soft as all get out. A strong wind will knock Kasumi or Miranda over.

[PD ORTA]

CC-Tron wrote...

I always bring Jake on Grunt's loyalty mission. They make a very powerful team.  Jake with Geth shotgun and Grunt with the Eviscerator (both with inferno ammo). None of those Krogan can get close. Uvenk never knew what hit him before he burned to death.

Jacob and Grunt on this mission are the perfect team.

[lazuli]

CC-Tron wrote...
Jake's shield strength goes up to 575 with heavy barrier. The barrier recharges every ten seconds with cooldown upgrades. Those who say his survivability isn't incresed significantly with heavy barrier are not playing efficiently. Period.  It takes two shots from a heavy missle launcher or a ton of bullets to drop the barrier and see a health bar. By then he can erect another one putting his shield back up to 575. 

Barrier doesn't make all that much of a difference on Insanity.  Heck, even Grunt is more or less made of papier-mâché on Insanity if you leave him to his own devices.  What difficulty level are we discussing here?

[CC-Tron]

lazuli wrote...

CC-Tron wrote...
Jake's shield strength goes up to 575 with heavy barrier. The barrier recharges every ten seconds with cooldown upgrades. Those who say his survivability isn't incresed significantly with heavy barrier are not playing efficiently. Period.  It takes two shots from a heavy missle launcher or a ton of bullets to drop the barrier and see a health bar. By then he can erect another one putting his shield back up to 575. 

Barrier doesn't make all that much of a difference on Insanity.  Heck, even Grunt is more or less made of papier-mâché on Insanity if you leave him to his own devices.  What difficulty level are we discussing here?

Like we discussed earlier, Insanity is not the baseline ME2 level. It's called insanity for a reason. It shouldn't used as a measure for the effectiveness of a heavy barrier (or the squad AI which is ****** poor). My opinion still stands though. Jake's survivability is still far higher with the heavy barrier than most of the squad for the reasons I said before. A 575 barrier is a huge increase considering the shield strength of your average squaddie isn't much more than 200.

Most of them go down before they can be much use for their powers. I usually play on veteran or hardcore.  Keeping Jake, Legion and Grunt alive through the entire game is easy with management but I can't say the same with the others. Miranda and much of the rest has to be hidden way behind Shepard and spam warp or some other power repeatedly or they die.

I already have the achievement for insanity so their no reason for me to keep playing it unless I like fighting battles by myself with little to no contribution from the other squad. The squad AI in the game struggles with casual (no joke) so it seems 'insane' to play it on insanity. IMO.

Modifié par CC-Tron, 14 septembre 2010 - 03:18 .

[lazuli]

CC-Tron wrote...
Like we discussed earlier, Insanity is not the baseline ME2 level. It's called insanity for a reason. It shouldn't used as a measure for the effectiveness of a heavy barrier (or the squad AI which is ****** poor). My opinion still stands though. Jake's survivability is still far higher with the heavy barrier than most of the squad for the reasons I said before. A 575 barrier is a huge increase considering the shield strength of your average squaddie isn't much more than 200.

Most of them go them go down before they can be much use for their powers. I usually play on veteran or hardcore.  Keeping Jake, Legion and Grunt alive through the entire game is easy with management but I can't say the same with the others. Miranda and much of the rest has to be hidden way behind Shepard and spam warp or some other power repeatedly or they die.

I already have the achievement for insanity so their no reason for me to keep playing it unless I like fighting battles by myself with little to no contribution from the other squad. The squad AI in the game struggles with casual (no joke) so it seems 'insane' to play it on insanity. IMO.

Thanks for clarifying.  I agree that Insanity is certainly not the baseline ME2 level.  However, it works better for heated gameplay debate.  On the lower difficulty levels, almost any strategy is viable, so discussion loses some of its meaning.  But I'm getting us off topic.  I apologize.

Back to Jacob.  What class of Shepard do you find him most effective with when you're using him as a Barrier tank?  And what do you do with his ammo power?

Modifié par lazuli, 14 septembre 2010 - 03:18 .

[CC-Tron]

lazuli wrote...

CC-Tron wrote...
Like we discussed earlier, Insanity is not the baseline ME2 level. It's called insanity for a reason. It shouldn't used as a measure for the effectiveness of a heavy barrier (or the squad AI which is ****** poor). My opinion still stands though. Jake's survivability is still far higher with the heavy barrier than most of the squad for the reasons I said before. A 575 barrier is a huge increase considering the shield strength of your average squaddie isn't much more than 200.

Most of them go them go down before they can be much use for their powers. I usually play on veteran or hardcore.  Keeping Jake, Legion and Grunt alive through the entire game is easy with management but I can't say the same with the others. Miranda and much of the rest has to be hidden way behind Shepard and spam warp or some other power repeatedly or they die.

I already have the achievement for insanity so their no reason for me to keep playing it unless I like fighting battles by myself with little to no contribution from the other squad. The squad AI in the game struggles with casual (no joke) so it seems 'insane' to play it on insanity. IMO.

Thanks for clarifying.  I agree that Insanity is certainly not the baseline ME2 level.  However, it works better for heated gameplay debate.  On the lower difficulty levels, almost any strategy is viable, so discussion loses some of its meaning.  But I'm getting us off topic.  I apologize.

Back to Jacob.  What class of Shepard do you find him most effective with when you're using him as a Barrier tank?  And what do you do with his ammo power?

I play infiltrator. When I cloak, the enemies instantly focus their fire on the other squad mates so it's very important for them to be able take high damage. Tanks are most useful for my play style. I max out Jake's ammo power and choose inferno instead of squad. Inferno ammo has a burst radus bonus of 3 meters so nearby enemies may also catch fire. The ammo I use for squishies is squad cryo. That seems to be the best  ammo power to keep squad mates like Miranda, Kasumi, and Tali alive.

[lazuli]

CC-Tron wrote...
I play infiltrator. When I cloak, the enemies instantly focus their fire on the other squad mates so it's very important for them to be able take high damage. Tanks are most useful for my play style. I max out Jake's ammo power and choose inferno instead of squad.

That makes sense.  I had originally pegged Jacob as a bad match for Infiltrators, but the way you level him seems to fit well.  I think he compliments Adepts and Sentinels best, but I level him differently.  Apart from 1 or 2 points at the start, I hold off on leveling up his passive skill until after I've gotten at least Pull Field out of him.

[PrinceLionheart]

lazuli wrote...

Back to Jacob.  What class of Shepard do you find him most effective with when you're using him as a Barrier tank?  And what do you do with his ammo power?

Engineer and Adept seems like prime choices since you can use the Attack Drone/Singularity to cover him if he gets swarmed by enemies.

Overall, Jacob is my wingman for the Sentinel class. 

[HK-90210]

You know, with his barrier power, I still think that Jacob could have worked as the biotic in the suicide mission. Yes, he is probably one of the least powerful biotics on the team(which is still very powerful!), but if his specialty is barriers, why couldn't he work as the biotic?

Bioware probably has it that way so they didn't open the floodgates and have Mirimancers and all other boitic fans saying that their favorite character could have handled it too. Still bothers me, though.

Modifié par CastonFolarus, 15 septembre 2010 - 02:25 .

[Some Dude]

CastonFolarus wrote...

You know, with his barrier power, I still think that Jacob could have worked as the biotic in the suicide mission. Yes, he is probably one of the least powerful biotics on the team(which is still very powerful!), but if his specialty is barriers, why couldn't he work as the biotic?

Bioware probably has it that way so they didn't open the floodgates and have Mirimancers and all other boitic fans saying that their favorite character could have handled it too. Still bothers men, though.

A fair point.
I see JT as a defensive biotic who can make strong barriers, while Miranda is more an offensive biotic because she can strip defenses and such. So I think it could work. Maybe. Then again, Sam has been refining her biotic powers for hundreds of years, and Jack is the most powerful human biotic ever (I think), so I don't think JT's biotic bubble can compare. After all, protecting yourself is one thing, but making a huge bubble of protection for other people is another.