390 réponses à ce sujet

[RobertM5252]

Neither Kaidan nor Ashley got much involvement in ME2, and their appearances in ME2 were virtually identical at that. It’s not very surprising when you consider that Bioware couldn’t be certain which one you would actually have alive in ME2. Why write a bunch of unique storylines and dialog for Kaidan if there’s a 50/50 chance they got him killed in ME1? The same applies to Ashley.

Now, consider that, in the ending of ME2, you can get any and all of the companion characters killed (well not all, because if they’re all dead then you’re dead, too). It’s the Kaidan/Ashley problem all over again but almost worse because they’re even less interchangeable. At least both Kaidan and Ashley were members of the Alliance military. The same cannot be said for the ME2 characters. You can’t simply write a generic part for Garrus that can be easily filled by Samara if you got Garrus but not Samara dead.

Bioware seems to have painted themselves into a corner. By having such a variable aspect of the game, they create a multitude of possible ME2 endings that they cannot rely on when writing ME3. There are, what, hundreds of possible combinations of ME2 companion survivors? And I simply don’t believe that Bioware has the dedication to create highly well-developed parts for characters that may not even be in a game at all. Not Ashley, not Kaidan, and not Wrex, really.

In fact, I would go so far as to say that the only characters we can trust to return in ME3 are ones that had small parts in ME2 and thus had no potential death option. Joker, Liara, EDI, Anderson, Udina, and the Illusive Man. That’s basically it (unless I’m forgetting someone, which is highly possible).

Thoughts?

Modifié par RobertM5252, 25 avril 2010 - 10:36 .

[Arquibus]

See Baldur's Gate II. 16 NPCs. Only five in your party at any given time. And you could, in fact, go through the game with none. So...I am unafraid. It would take more work to create new characters and voice them than to bring the old ones back. They may introduce a few new ones. But chances are, if they lived, they'll still be around.

[kraidy1117]

You need two people alive to import your Shepard.



Liara and Ash/Kaidan and two people from ME2, Theres your squad and you get a bigger one if you have more people alive.

[Brako Shepard]

I should imagine Tali would also make an appearence. But I think they will do similar for the characters you saved, the same way they did for either Kaiden or Ashley.



There is huge attacking coming from a number of Reaper ships. You can bet they are not all going to gun for Shepard, and so they will split up and try to tear up different sections of the galaxy.



Any of those members on your team who survived the final battle on Mass Effect 2, whilst not having a major part in Mass Effect 3. Could actually be ablive and battling the Reapers in a different section of the galaxy. This is a super long shot though as I have no idea how BioWare plan to do things. All I hope is that it makes sense and we don't have to wait another 2 years to find out. I aint getting any younger.

[DarthCaine]

BioWare is infamous for making little to no consequences for your actions so it wouldn't really suprise me.

Every squad mate that survived ME1 and ME2 will appear in ME3 (except maybe Thane) at least as (and most likely as) a cameo

BioWare has 3 paths in terms of squad mates:

• They take the ME2/DAO:A road and make a whole new crew (for which a lot of people would be angry) and once again proving that your choices don't matter and BioWare is lazy
• They make some of the characters, that aren't LIs, recruitable (that's Wrex, Grunt, Mordin, Legion, Samara, Morinth, Zaeed and Kasumi)
• They make ALL the LIs recruitable (for the others non LIs it's up to them), except maybe Thane (since he might be dead in ME3's timeline)

Modifié par DarthCaine, 25 avril 2010 - 11:05 .

[Privateerkev]

I'm confident they will all return. A.) They can make the default situation for people who haven't imported a save as all party members surviving the suicide mission. B.) With just one minute on the interwebz, it is very very easy to make a save for ME3 where all your party members survive.



So, I really don't understand the whole "they could die in game 2 therefore they will have no place in game 3" fear.

[kraidy1117]

DarthCaine wrote...

BioWare is infamous for making little to no consequences for your actions so it wouldn't really suprise me.

BioWare has 3 paths:

1.They take the ME2/DAO:A road and make a whole new crew (for which a lot of people would be angry) and once again proving that your choices don't matter and BioWare is lazy

I won't buy ME3 if that happens, Bioware pulling that is Bioware telling me that 50 hours of my life I spent on ME2 was a waste of time.

Modifié par kraidy1117, 25 avril 2010 - 10:59 .

[DarthCaine]

Privateerkev wrote...

I'm confident they will all return

Riiiight, and BioWare would have to make only 17+ squad mates all with full dialogues and romances (and they'd have to make new squad mates to replace the dead ones and for the default Shepard most will be dead) and that would cost them tons of money and work. It's not very realistic thinking is it ?

For BG it was easy 'cos it was 99% text

Modifié par DarthCaine, 25 avril 2010 - 11:04 .

[RobertM5252]

Brako Shepard wrote...

I should imagine Tali would also make an appearence. But I think they will do similar for the characters you saved, the same way they did for either Kaiden or Ashley.

...

Any of those members on your team who survived the final battle on Mass Effect 2, whilst not having a major part in Mass Effect 3. Could actually be ablive and battling the Reapers in a different section of the galaxy.

Right. I suppose I should say that, at best, we can likely expect the ME2 recruitable characters to be relegated to merely cameo roles in ME3, just like Ashley/Kaidan and Wrex. If X character isn't there, either the interaction doesn't happen to they're replaced by someone else (like Wrex is largely interchangable with the generic Urdnot chief).

This could, in fact, be why Liara was given such a minor roll in ME2: so they would know for sure that she was alive in ME3. If that is the case, then I'm annoyed they made Tali and Garrus both recruitable in ME2 and forced themselves to write both of them out of ME3. If I'm right, then they've eliminated almost all the ME1 companion characters (Ashley, Kaidan, and Wrex could all be dead at the end of ME1, Garrus and Tali could be dead at the end of ME2).

OTOH, they could pull a "lulz, u rezed ur ded team!" and bring back everyone from ME2. Which would be irritating but not altogether surprising. (After all, if you killed yourself at the end of DA:O you can ignore that and still use your character in the expansion. Though this isn't quite the same thing.)

[RobertM5252]

Privateerkev wrote...

I'm confident they will all return. A.) They can make the default situation for people who haven't imported a save as all party members surviving the suicide mission. B.) With just one minute on the interwebz, it is very very easy to make a save for ME3 where all your party members survive.

So, I really don't understand the whole "they could die in game 2 therefore they will have no place in game 3" fear.

The default ME2 game has the council and Wrex dead . Why would the default ME3 option be that you're better off than a person who actually played ME2 and just didn't do so perfectly?

No, I'm rather sure that the only way all the ME2 squadmates can return in ME3 is with cameos like Kaidan/Ashley/Wrex, reduced roles like Zaeed/Kasumi (i.e., no real talking outside their own specific mission), or by retconning their (potential) deaths at the end of ME2. None of which is very satisfying.

[Shazzammer2]

meh ... they'll return. One way or the other, they'll return.

[Privateerkev]

DarthCaine wrote...

Privateerkev wrote...

I'm confident they will all return

Riiiight, and BioWare would have to make only 17+ squad mates all with full dialogues and romances (and they'd have to make new squad mates to replace the dead ones and for the default Shepard most will be dead) and that would cost them tons of money and work. It's not very realistic thinking is it ?

For BG it was easy 'cos it was 99% text

Ok, I am confident that BW realizes they can make enough profit to justify paying the VA's for the 3rd game...

RobertM5252 wrote...

The default ME2 game has the council and
Wrex dead . Why would the default ME3 option be that you're better off
than a person who actually played ME2
and just didn't do so perfectly?

perfectly? Do you have any idea how easy it is to save everyone? I would be shocked if anyone who has spent even a minute on the wiki site even has trouble with it anymore. The way it is these days, people only die in your suicide mission if you want them to...

[warlorejon]

what's wrong with killing off some of your squad. it's a damn sucide misison, i don't want everyone to live, that just cheapens the experience.

[RobertM5252]

Privateerkev wrote...

perfectly? Do you have any idea how easy it is to save everyone? I would be shocked if anyone who has spent even a minute on the wiki site even has trouble with it anymore. The way it is these days, people only die in your suicide mission if you want them to...

Exactly how much of the ME2 playerbase do you think is actually checking the wiki? (Or posting on these forums, for that matter. ) Hell, I use the wiki but my first time through I got Jacob and Mordin killed because I was avoiding spoilers like crazy.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

I'm sure that your team will in fact be back. Most of them seriously have no where else to go at this point, except samara and zaeed. Samara is probably going to run off and kill more bad guys, zaeed will be like "screw this i'm going home" after he gets his paycheck. Thane could still be around assuming that he somehow survives his disease. So yeah...

[xI extremist Ix]

I am not going to lie, I killed off Jack, Jacob, and Miranda.

[ArcanistLibram]

All LIs are guaranteed to come back and Mordin and Legion are pretty much guaranteed to come back.

Unless Bioware wants to kick the epic fail up to 11, they'll at least get roles as big as Joker's.

[RobertM5252]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

I'm sure that your team will in fact be back. Most of them seriously have no where else to go at this point, except samara and zaeed.

...unless they're dead.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wondering.png[/smilie] Which is, after all, my point.

[DirtyVagrant]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

The question I have, is what was the purpose of making the ME2 squadmates killable? The challenge? Well maybe a little at first, but all of my squad survived my first playthrough with no meta-gaming done on my part. So why make them killable? To give Bioware an out in case they don't have the budget that they anticipated for ME3?

To give the Suicide Mission weight? It was a high risk mission, may as well make there be serious consequences for poor command/choices.

[Sky Shadowing]

This topic has been debated hundreds of times before. In the end, if you look at it, Bioware actually wrote legitimate reasons to return into most of the characters. Tali is "vas Normandy" and possibly exiled. Garrus's only friend is you. Miranda resigns from Cerberus if she's with you at the end. Jacob... nobody cares about.



They have plenty of reasons to include the characters and not many to not include them.

[Peppard]

I agree with Darth about some of that, but I think BW has more than those  3 options for what to do with these potentially dead characters.

Characters aren't either "weak  cameo's" or "full fledged squad mates". There can be a huge range of interaction and combat.  For example, BW could do some of these things:

•   Optional Squad  --  If you think about it, Zaeed, Kasumi, Morinth, Grunt and Legion are created in such a way that you could skip them entirely.    From a programming/writing  stand point there isn't a difference between making potentially dead characters work in the same way in the next game.  From a gaming perspective, however, that would force players to have a choice from a previous game carry over to a new game to limit the content they can experience in the next game.   Some players crave that kind of carry-over, some don't.

• NPC  Squad--  They don't have to create a full-fledged "replacement" character  with back-story and interactive dialog for every character that might be dead.  They could make a generic crewman with very little interactivity, that basically clones the combat skills of any dead character in an imported file. So if Tali died for you, you get Engineer Jones who doesn't have an especially unique character model, to take her place to balance combat.  If  Tali's alive, Jones is still an NPC character stationed in engineering, just like all the other npc crew that are there, that we ignore.   He just won't have a lot of  the unique dialog that Tali would have had, perhaps doesn't have a dialog wheel.

• Chatty NPC crew-- like Joker,   updates dialog based on what you do, and is not a static NPC cameo like Liara/Ash/Kaidan, and has quite a few cut scenes and dialog.  They probably spent more  time and money on Joker's dialog than they did on Legion, so don't think BW would be "lazy" if they gave ME2 squad roles like that.   This just saves having to balance combat around characters that might be missing.

Other people have also suggested things like segmenting the main story line, so that it forces you to use certain   characters for the main story. That reduces the amount of in-mission dialog that has to be recorded for every possible team combination.   

Whether BW will feel motivated to try anything besides  "blink and you miss it cameo and email, enjoy the new squad" or "hah, cannon start, these 6 lived and these died, no matter what happened in YOUR game", I don't know.  

 I hope they get creative.  Afterall, isn't creativity and innovation part of why we're fans of BW ?   Though... as they are now part of .EA, home of countless churned out "in franchise" games, perhaps things will change.

[Privateerkev]

RobertM5252 wrote...

Privateerkev wrote...

perfectly? Do you have any idea how easy it is to save everyone? I would be shocked if anyone who has spent even a minute on the wiki site even has trouble with it anymore. The way it is these days, people only die in your suicide mission if you want them to...

Exactly how much of the ME2 playerbase do you think is actually checking the wiki? (Or posting on these forums, for that matter. ) Hell, I use the wiki but my first time through I got Jacob and Mordin killed because I was avoiding spoilers like crazy.

I'm sure plenty are. I found it easy enough. My earlier point still stands. It is very very easy to make a save file where everyone lives. So, pretty much everyone who wants to import a save, where everyone lives, into ME3 can do so. Which means I do not agree with the logic of some on this forum who think that all because a person is killable, it means there is zero chance of them showing up in the next game.

Just a hunch but I think it's fans of ME1 characters hoping their characters don't get sidelined again. (And to be clear, I didn't like that the ME1 people were sidelined.) Ideally, I'd like to see all the ME1 and ME2 characters get their due and have big parts in the next game. But thats me.