390 réponses à ce sujet

[mopotter]

/quote]mopotter

Why?  Because ME3 is a continuation of ME1 and ME 2.  The decisions made should carry over otherwise why bother with letting us make decisions.  That idea is what I don't get.  Why would you want a game that dosen't carry over your choices.  Why bother playing ME1 or 2 if they don't matter.  Why bother playing a game that says decisions count if you don't want them to count? 

So you play every game exactly the same so tht all of your squad will survive?  That I also don't get.  I do have a couple of games where everyone survived, but I also have games where I didn't do one upgrade becuase in that game it is what the story demanded.  I picked up legion early or I didn't have enough points to convence Jack and Maranda or Tali and Legion to co-operate. 

All these choices are why I will be able to play the game for as long as it takes till ME3 comes out.  If the ones who survive go off to do different jobs, I'm ok with that
too.  If we can recruit them that will be great and I think BioWare could do it, but I want choices I made in the previous games to count in the 3rd one no matter what the cost.
[/quote]

[quote]Andrew

Actually no, I have 12 playthroughs, I have thane, mordin and an few others killed, while on playthoughs, I have all but two killed with an few fav combinations (legion and tali surivive, or Garrus and Tali, Kasumi and Tali, kasumi and Legion etc). I look forward to the decisions, if I get bummed because I got my members purposely killed, I see no reason to reward me for it by giving me replacements. If Liara returns, you got your biotics, + ashley/kaiden which is soldier or soldier with biotics plus your two survivors. There is enough to cover your basics for every situation.

I honestly don't see the need for them to leave you, they know the reapers are coming, they know they are going to wipe out the galaxy. I see little need to even recruit them again if I have gained their loyality and trust and got them thru the sucide mission. I could understand that if they unloyal and had surivived, they leave you in ME3... but eh. I see this scenario being an way to apease the fans in every aspect. No need to come up with characters, you save recruitment missions if they are already on board, which means you can add other missions... etc.

[/quote]

Then I misunderstood your post and I apologize.  

I would not be upset if there were no replacements for the ones who died as far as the squad goes, but I'm not sure any of them will be in our squad since any of them can die.  It would just be a lot easier (not better) to have them leave and I do think they all have a reason to leave if that is what happens.  

Since I don't know anything about programing I have a hard time figuring out how much work it would be to let us keep the ME2 squad that survived.  What I don't want - really don't want - is to carry over a game from ME2 where someone died and not have it matter.  i want all of my games to carry over and show my choices, good and bad.

I'm sort of hoping for a game that lets you keep the ones who survived plus Kaidan/Ash and Liara and makes you work with this.  If there are a couple of extra I don't mind, but I really would rather not having to recruit a bunch of new squad members.    

I got really upset when members of the crew died so I now always go immediately after their captured to save them.     But with the squad, while I teared up the one time Tali died and almost restarted, I didn't.  And I was actually surprised it bothered me when Jack died, but she was saving Miranda even though I had sided with Miranda and I decided she was a hero in her heart.

  

Modifié par mopotter, 29 avril 2010 - 02:31 .

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

Vegielamb wrote...

Honestly, I think the biggest impact will be the character that you romanced in M1. I don't think we'll end up with more than 3 M1 characters (Garrus included) in M3, and I suspect we'll only get 2 M1 characters (Garrus and romance, if alive). I do think who you save at the end of M2 will come into play as well.

IMO the BIG M2 choices on loading into M3:

Save or kill Human-Reaper = save or kill council
Party members to survive = Ashely/Kaiden choice
Awaken Leigon = Save Wrex (Krogan were a risk as well). Mind that the leigon platform only needed to be awakened to get the Geth on your side. The platform is NOT an individual, thus saving him end game is irrelavent.

pretty sure I double tapped that Human-Reaper but I get your general gist. 

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

Then I misunderstood your post and I apologize.  

I would not be upset if there were no replacements for the ones who died as far as the squad goes, but I'm not sure any of them will be in our squad since any of them can die.  It would just be a lot easier (not better) to have them leave and I do think they all have a reason to leave if that is what happens.  

Since I don't know anything about programing I have a hard time figuring out how much work it would be to let us keep the ME2 squad that survived.  What I don't want - really don't want - is to carry over a game from ME2 where someone died and not have it matter.  i want all of my games to carry over and show my choices, good and bad.

I'm sort of hoping for a game that lets you keep the ones who survived plus Kaidan/Ash and Liara and makes you work with this.  If there are a couple of extra I don't mind, but I really would rather not having to recruit a bunch of new squad members.    

I got really upset when members of the crew died so I now always go immediately after their captured to save them.     But with the squad, while I teared up the one time Tali died and almost restarted, I didn't.  And I was actually surprised it bothered me when Jack died, but she was saving Miranda even though I had sided with Miranda and I decided she was a hero in her heart.

  

What I am saying, everyone wants more story, less character recruitment/interaction.

Edit - Sorry, Meant more character interaction/less 12+ recuitment action.


The easiest way is to keep the existing 12 squad with you, and just have some extra diologue then spend 3 weeks creating the scenarios for each recuitment. The fans get to keep all their favorite characters, and there is an large enough squad pool left over if you got everyone killed to have 3-5 squad members, and throw in 2-3 recuitment missions. Easy peasy, everyone gets what they want. Only thing you need to is contract diologue for those 12 squad mates, boom, that's it. IT saves money, everyone in both camps is happy.... Me1's get their beloved Kaiden/Ashley/Liara back, ME2 fans get their squad back..... Only hard part is making an convicing openning as to explain what they been doing, but that is based on the openning which to me looks like it'll be jail time for sheppard, so easy enough - they been planning on how to get you out of the joint. Easy enough. =P

Otherwise, they waste some damn fine Teammates that almost everyone has an favorite pair and worked well enough in ME2. It will be such an shame not to use them properly.


Programming for the squadmates is simple "If Squadmate flag = alive" Then Value=1. "If Squadmate flag = dead" then value=0. If squadmate value=0 then Character is locked and blanked out.

Modifié par Andrew_Waltfeld, 29 avril 2010 - 02:47 .

[billywaffles]

I'm just sick of people saying "Morinth won't come back for ME3 NO MATTER WHAT". What if I just kill everybody in the suicide mission but Morinth and anyone else? Should I be severely punished for that?

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

billywaffles wrote...

I'm just sick of people saying "Morinth won't come back for ME3 NO MATTER WHAT". What if I just kill everybody in the suicide mission but Morinth and anyone else? Should I be severely punished for that?

Well you'll get less content cause you only have two squadmates left in the terms of, you probably only got 4-5 squadmates to play with rather then 14 or something. Punished servievely storyplot wise, I'm sure some wise-****** will throw something about how everyone almost died on your sucide mission, but that doesn't mean you should punished storyline wise, just means you don't have as many squadmates to help you.

[Peppard]

Why do people think there have to be recruitment missions? Kaidan (and Jenkins, your temp squad) was just on your ship in ME1, and for Kasumi and Zaeed, you basically just picked them up after some dialog, no fighting. Their big mission was for "loyalty", a game mechanic concept tied into the suicide mission, which they don't have to use in the next game.



They don't have to create individualized combat quests and levels that features and highlights "extra, optional" squadmates, as long as there's enough other levels where those characters could be used (but again, never are required to be there).



As for reasons to leave, again, regardless of the loyalty mechanic and conversations, the writers could make any character act as they need them to act. The next game doesn't have to track loyalty from the previous game. Any characters that lived through the certain death in the Collector Base, and seeing the Reaper's plans up close,might feel quite loyal to Shepard, who after all in this trilogy, is the "Chosen one" to defeat them. Unless the writers want to of course, write them out for other reasons.



Even if we're prepared to be disapointed, doesn't hurt to ask for other options besides lame cameos.

[Dean_the_Young]

One possibility that I haven't seen anyone throw around is the possibility of step-in related party members: people who are functionally the same and related to a 'lost' party member, but would have been related NPC's otherwise. More simply, NPC's to step in if the squad mate in question is dead, if certain conditions are met.

Legion is the best example, as was already mentioned earlier. Another Geth unit can be sent (if you completed Legion's loyalty mission and destroyed the virus) to continue Legion's mission, and the new dialogue for this step-in Legion ('Battalion' is what I'll call him) would somewhat address Legion and so on. However, if you do have Legion, then Battalion is more of an NPC, maybe a special lieutenant in the Geth fleet sent depending on how they do that.

For Thane, on the other hand, you could potentially have his son step in. To continue his father's good intentions if they reconciled and Thane died, or as a paid assassin if you failed the Loyalty mission. Same class, only slightly different character design, and then reword the script.

And so it goes: try and find step-in replacements personally connected to the missing party member. This could go back to ME1, where Ash could be replaced by her sister (the one who's a better hand-to-hand fighter) or Kaiden replaced by that biotic first-flame of his. Mordin could be replaced by the STG Commander (Captain Kirial?), Kal'Reeger steps in for Tali, etc. etc. Maybe Sidonis takes up where Garrus died, or maybe they call up that Turian girl who had 'flexibility.'


Of course, the first thing to point out is 'hey, some of those step-ins can die to! You just defeated the point!' True, and I make no claims that it would be absolute. It would be hard to make equal, if that's required*. But it would add in a safety-net layer of available step-ins, depending on past actions and whether you need it.

*I don't think it should be, not this late in the game: let people with different pasts start at different points. I'm just suggesting step ins as a way to minimize the plot/design flows of the story, which would allow old squad mates to have more important roles. Sure, they'd effectively be chug-and-plug roles in the plot, but they'd be there if you kept them.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 29 avril 2010 - 05:00 .

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

One possibility that I haven't seen anyone throw around is the possibility of step-in related party members: people who are functionally the same and related to a 'lost' party member, but would have been related NPC's otherwise. More simply, NPC's to step in if the squad mate in question is dead, if certain conditions are met.

Legion is the best example, as was already mentioned earlier. Another Geth unit can be sent (if you completed Legion's loyalty mission and destroyed the virus) to continue Legion's mission, and the new dialogue for this step-in Legion ('Battalion' is what I'll call him) would somewhat address Legion and so on. However, if you do have Legion, then Battalion is more of an NPC, maybe a special lieutenant in the Geth fleet sent depending on how they do that.

For Thane, on the other hand, you could potentially have his son step in. To continue his father's good intentions if they reconciled and Thane died, or as a paid assassin if you failed the Loyalty mission. Same class, only slightly different character design, and then reword the script.

And so it goes: try and find step-in replacements personally connected to the missing party member. This could go back to ME1, where Ash could be replaced by her sister (the one who's a better hand-to-hand fighter) or Kaiden replaced by that biotic first-flame of his. Mordin could be replaced by the STG Commander (Captain Kirial?), Kal'Reeger steps in for Tali, etc. etc. Maybe Sidonis takes up where Garrus died, or maybe they call up that Turian girl who had 'flexibility.'


Of course, the first thing to point out is 'hey, some of those step-ins can die to! You just defeated the point!' True, and I make no claims that it would be absolute. It would be hard to make equal, if that's required*. But it would add in a safety-net layer of available step-ins, depending on past actions and whether you need it.

*I don't think it should be, not this late in the game: let people with different pasts start at different points. I'm just suggesting step ins as a way to minimize the plot/design flows of the story, which would allow old squad mates to have more important roles. Sure, they'd effectively be chug-and-plug roles in the plot, but they'd be there if you kept them.

People have wondered about that, but i was initally dis-carded due to "too much cost" or whatever. Slightly lame exause if you ask me, I honestly don't mind. VA don't cost as much these days as paying an team of animators etc to do an scene costs much much much more in terms of time/effort/labor.

[Sef24]

ME2 squadmates will make an appearance in ME3 but will not become squadmates.
reason?
because bioware would not want to have a playable squadmate have recorded dialogue and EVERYTHING needed to have them in the game, when they can easily die off in me2.
its just too much work.

yes,  they did that with shepard but hes the main character, i wouldnt be suprised if they used the same voice acting for the main character if shepard died in me2.

anyways, this was just a thought, but yea i highly dont believe that they will have any me2 squadmates as playable toons in me3, since they could easily just be not used by the player because they died during their me2 playthough.

it wouldnt be fair if one player had access to 12/12 characters in their me3 play though, when another went a different route that they pefered and got only 10/12 characters that they could use.

[IoCaster]

I do hope that everyone else gets to keep whatever squad favorites they want. It doesn't matter to me since I've got my save game to import and I'm satisfied with that.

The problem is that we don't have any idea what Bioware have planned for ME3. We can assume a basic plot outline regarding the Reaper invasion and that's pretty much it. Personally, I'm more concerned with BioWare getting the overall story back on track then I am with whatever squad they put together for the game.

If they want to resurrect Jenkins and Wilson for ME3, I really wouldn't care at this point. Why not recruit Delan to be the head toilet scrubber for the Normandy? That would be fine with me too. Just give me a plot that makes some damn sense and I'll be happy.

The only request that I'd make is to be able to refuse to recruit any squad member that I choose. I don't want to be stuck with another Miranda or Jacob this time. If I need information from an NPC, let me toss them aside afterward if I want to. My latest save game has Kasumi, Zaeed, Garrus and Tali as the only surviving squad members. I'd be perfectly happy if they're available in ME3 and I wouldn't be much bothered if they aren't. If I can complete the game with only two squad mates, then let me just recruit those two and kick the rest to the curb. That's the type of meaningful choice that matters to me.

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

Sef24 wrote...

it wouldnt be fair if one player had access to 12/12 characters in their me3 play though, when another went a different route that they pefered and got only 10/12 characters that they could use.

It's not much work to be honest. and it's perfectly fair. you got 2 or 4 members killed, Why should the field be even in the first place? Not like the Sucide mission decisions were hard to make in the first place. No offense intended, but I had thane killed on my first play thru, so my orginal character that has no 20/20 hindsight will no longer have thane in the game. sucks to be me, but I live with the decision.

[Peppard]

 

[quote]Sef24 wrote...

it wouldnt be fair if one player had access to 12/12 characters in their me3 play though, when another went a different route that they pefered and got only 10/12 characters that they could use.[/quote]
 

[/quote]

What's the real difference between Squad and NPCs?  It's combat.  And the ability to walk around the game with the characters following you.

It isn't  interactive dialog.  Joker, TIm and EDI have  quite a bit of that. It isn't "love interests"--Kelly, Sha'ira, Shiala and Gianni  though not as fully  "fleshed out" as the official LI's interact with the player 's character in a flirtatious way (unless you're only interested in masculine characters, because those never seem to be random NPCs).


 You say it isn't fair to give one person access to 12 characters, but BW already gave some people access to three or four NPCs with varying amounts of dialog. Sure, none of those NPCS (Verner,Shiala,Rachni Queen rep, and others I don't remember) had MUCH to say, or could be used in combat, but they came up with models for them. They recorded dialog, and how to make them show up in some imports and not others.
 
So no matter what, you miss out on some story and dialog from your choices in the previous game.  Why is it unfair if the way you miss out on it is from having NPC replacements in your squad (so your combat is balanced with everyone), instead of a few more optional characters that have some "oh the good old ME2 day" dialog?  

I would not like the replacement NPCs to be elaborate, or tied into the people you lost.  They could just be "normandy crew", because I always wonder, what the heck ARE all those people doing on the ship? Besides of course, waiting to die in horrible ways or make some funny remarks.   Some have jobs, like Joker or the Engineers, but there are so many just there.   Presumably, some are just soldiers.   Would sort of make sense actually, that some are trained to fight.

[Nozybidaj]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

SnakeHelah wrote...

The turian councilor returns thats for sure

Ah yes, stand alone game.  We have confirmed that claim.

That's reassuring... Or is it?

Certainly depends on your point of view, doesn't it?

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 29 avril 2010 - 07:39 .

[Master Smurf]

And life isnt fair - whats this "fair" business - you want those characters alive - get ME2 and play it correctly to have a save with everyone alive - how about fully rewarding your core fans and not giving bonuses to GameStop or few extra credits / 2-3 level up at the start of the game.



I wouldnt mind seeing one or two new recruits but most or your crew should be the ones you "trust" who will help you to the end.

[Master Smurf]

We could get a new "Jenkins" and maybe an interesting ally who has been fighting the Collectors/Reaper initiative or Shadow Broker and has sought you out because they have some knowledge on what you are up against.
Would also like to see some more dialogue for Chawkwas and the Engineers (doesnt have to be as much as Joker)

Modifié par Master Smurf, 29 avril 2010 - 08:30 .

[Peppard]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

One possibility that I haven't seen anyone throw around is the possibility of step-in related party members: people who are functionally the same and related to a 'lost' party member, but would have been related NPC's otherwise. More simply, NPC's to step in if the squad mate in question is dead, if certain conditions are met.
 

That's the Wrex/Wreave swap idea.  Doing that for everyone becomes too "small world"  and contrived that they'd have a relative/friend competent to replace them in combat.  Sure there are some that might make sense, but I really hate seeing Kolyat for Thane.   Drell aren't born assasins, and Kolyat's really not that much different than the punk on Omega with the 50 credit pistol.   Even if Bailey took him under his wing, Kolyat isnt going to be worth having on Shepard's team for way too long.
 
    If they're going to need replacement  characters that only show up if ME2 characters are dead,  then I'd prefer they are generic crewmen that are  aboard the Normandy anyway and don't waste a lot of resources on them.  That way the VO can be people who are tapped to do "additional voices" anyway.    

Although, I am amused by the idea of meeting Mama Taylor (martin Lawrence for the voice?), and having her come on to Male Shep the way Fem Shep comes on to Jacob.   That might be worth having a new character to see for the LOLs.

[Nazomi]

A few new characters would be fine but i don't think it would be necessary to have a completely different crew.

[casedawgz]

I didn't mind having a new crew as much for ME2 because I knew it was a middle entry, but I think ME3 would probably lose a lot of emotional weight if it didn't focus on the culmination of the stories of existing characters. If I'm going to save the galaxy for the final time, I want to do it with characters I've already established my fondness for; that way, the plot can spend more time deepening these relationships and less time providing exposition for them.

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

aynxalot wrote...

ME1 focus = Introduction
ME2 focus = Problems/Conflict
ME3 focus = Resolutions

We can't decide what they will and won't do with ME3 by comparing what happened between the first two installments, because they are all different parts of an arc. ME3 is going to be too "busy" with other things to introduce a whole new squad of characters. And, I don't know about anyone else, but having become emotionally attached to my ME2 squad and then suddenly having to save the galaxy with a whole different squad is not only a disappointment, it's a deal-breaker. NPC roles would be better than nothing, but not nearly enough to satisfy.

If you lost certain "larger" characters, then you miss out on content. BW has already shown they have no problem doing that (Grunt and Legion in ME2, anyone?). It is not "too much work", because any time you put effort into enriching a game and making it better, demand for it goes up. Also, I'm OK with the idea of step-in roles for some characters, but not others. If you don't have X character and their role was more plot-centric, it can be filled by someone else. If the role was not plot-centric, then you just don't get that content. Maybe, just -maybe- they're going to try to make ME3 a pioneering effort in truly rewarding us for good decisions.

And I agree, that "fairness" is not a realistic quality for these games. It may not be "fair" that the other alien races hate my character because I let the Council die, but that was my choice. I also have a couple of PTs where characters have died. But I don't want to be spoon-fed new characters to fill the gaps I made for myself.

Agreed.

[Peppard]

Aynxalot,  good points.    

[Nozybidaj]

aynxalot wrote...
. And, I don't know about anyone else, but having become emotionally attached to my ME2 squad and then suddenly having to save the galaxy with a whole different squad is not only a disappointment, it's a deal-breaker.

Gee, that sounds eerily familiar.

[RobertM5252]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

One possibility that I haven't seen anyone throw around is the possibility of step-in related party members: people who are functionally the same and related to a 'lost' party member, but would have been related NPC's otherwise. More simply, NPC's to step in if the squad mate in question is dead, if certain conditions are met.

This argument is supported by the fact that this is exactly what they did with Wrex (and to some extent making Kaidan and Ashley interchangable).

Personally, I think it's asinine. If a character is that replacable, they're not much of a character, are they? But since it "works," it is, unfortunately, all too possible.

[RobertM5252]

Nozybidaj wrote...

aynxalot wrote...
. And, I don't know about anyone else, but having become emotionally attached to my ME2 squad and then suddenly having to save the galaxy with a whole different squad is not only a disappointment, it's a deal-breaker.

Gee, that sounds eerily familiar.

QFT.

They did it once. They could do it again. And they have even more reason to this time (or at the very least equally as much as they did with Ashley/Kaidan/Wrex).

[MaxQuartiroli]

Sef24 wrote...

ME2 squadmates will make an appearance in ME3 but will not become squadmates.
reason?
because bioware would not want to have a playable squadmate have recorded dialogue and EVERYTHING needed to have them in the game, when they can easily die off in me2.
its just too much work.

I really think that in order to estabilish if it is a waste of time/money  you don't have to take into consideration a single playtrough or a small number of them... but the grand total of the worldwide playtroughs...

I know more or less other ten people who played ME2 and, like me, all of them have more than 1 playtrough, and between them there is always at least 1 playtrough where they had all their companions surviving...
The more, if we compare the playtroughs we can see that  the companions who died are different.. What does this means? That I can consider that every 10 playtroughs every companion survived at least 7 times... 

Therefore if you consider that in the more pessimistic case you have however at least  70%  of possibility OVER MILLIONS of playtroughs that  every single squadmember survived the work to made all of them available for ME3 is worth it... The more if you consider that every player had more than a chance to have at least one of his
playtroughs with that companion available...

Maybe they just can discard the characters who had the higer probability to die, like Morinth and Samara because they have a 50/50 chanche to survive, like Ashley and Kaidan in the first game