390 réponses à ce sujet

[Alphyn]

Whoever goes and whoever stays, Garrus and Tali have to stay (if they survived [and if they didn't, you suck]).



Why? Because they've followed Shepard right to the end. They're more than under Shepard's command; they're his/her friends (or more). They have no excuse to leave Shepard behind, they trust him/her and they would follow him/her right to end.



At least, that's what I hope. Tali is popular (as you can see) and so is Garrus. It doesn't make any sense to leave them behind.

[MrNose]

Building off of some other posts, here are my theories regarding who is probably going to stay (if they're alive, in some cases) as squadmates:



Tali'Zorah vas Normandy & Garrus: As Alphyn said, these guys are Shepard's followers.



-Tali: Regardless of your relationship with Tali, she admires you greatly. Her ship name is your ship's name, and a Quarian's ship name is the name of their HOME.

-Garrus: Throughout ME2 Garrus indicates how important Shepard has been to him. They joke around, and Garrus explains that he makes decisions based on watching Shepard ("I learned from the best"). It's heavily implied that he formed his own squad based on this as well. That guy is sticking with you.

-Legion: Legion is a late game character who adds significantly to the mythology of the series and can be easily replaced by another geth prototype if he dies. He's clearly also important to the overall Quarian-Geth subplot.

-Miranda: Miranda is plot-protected up the wazoo. She can only die in the final battle. It seems to me like after all that, they'll design some story opportunities for her. If she does die they'll likely design some ramifications for that.

-Liara: Can't die in ME1, has her own graphic novel, has a pretty significant NPC presence in ME2 and might get DLC. She's coming along for the ride methinks.

-Ashley/Kaiden: Simply due to the whole "if you cheat on your LI there will be consequences" thing.



And so those six characters are my pick for the list of those who will be in ME3.

aynxalot wrote...

And I agree, that "fairness" is not a realistic quality for these games. It may not be "fair" that the other alien races hate my character because I let the Council die, but that was my choice. I also have a couple of PTs where characters have died. But I don't want to be spoon-fed new characters to fill the gaps I made for myself.

Yeah, I like the idea that war isn't fair, and that players who play ME2 with losses (as I plan to on this playthrough) get a bit of a disadvantage. After all the complaints about how ME1 stuff didn't matter enough in ME2, I think this is a pretty big way to show that your decisions matter eh. "Dire consequences" and all that right?

[MaxQuartiroli]

Alphyn wrote...

Whoever goes and whoever stays, Garrus and Tali have to stay (if they survived [and if they didn't, you suck]).

Why? Because they've followed Shepard right to the end. They're more than under Shepard's command; they're his/her friends (or more). They have no excuse to leave Shepard behind, they trust him/her and they would follow him/her right to end.

At least, that's what I hope. Tali is popular (as you can see) and so is Garrus. It doesn't make any sense to leave them behind.

I agree...

Garrus and Tali are with Shepard the "history" of this game
It would be really unfairy if they should leave them out right before the end, after 2 whole chapters and so many battles !!

[Guanxii]

Guys I think I've sussed it out... at least in my own mind. Veterans get to keep whoever survived the suicide mission but new players starting a fresh ME3 without importing a save you will probably be guaranteed 6 squad members in a new cannon, all of which being past potential love interests only differing according to the sex of your new character because they are almost guaranteed to have the most dialogue/integral plot lines, e.g.

Liara
Ashley/Kaiden
Miranda/Jacob
Garrus
Tali
Jack/Thane

Bloodbathers intentionally reap what they sew:
Liara
Ashley/Kaiden
Survivor 1
Survivor 2

Everybody else gets their Mass Effect 2 squad back with maybe the substitution of Liara for Samara/Morinth and Kaiden or Ashley in place of Zaeed or Kazumi. The whole point of ME2 is that you are building the deadliest best of the best  team in the entire galaxy so I really don't see why everybody seems to be assuming direct control that we will get almost an entirely new squad of also-rans and stand ins. Six fan favs is enough. No time for character development of new characters and recruitment and loyalty missions when the galaxy is under attack.

Modifié par Guanxii, 30 avril 2010 - 04:03 .

[jlb524]

Guanxii wrote...

The whole point of ME2 is that you are building the deadliest best of the best  team in the entire galaxy so I really don't see why everybody seems to be assuming direct control that we will get almost an entirely new squad of also-rans and stand ins..

Yes, the point was to recruit this team to go on a suicide mission to defeat the Collectors.  That's been done and I'm guessing most won't stick around since they did what Cerberus paid them to do.

[JeanLuc761]

jlb524 wrote...

Guanxii wrote...

The whole point of ME2 is that you are building the deadliest best of the best  team in the entire galaxy so I really don't see why everybody seems to be assuming direct control that we will get almost an entirely new squad of also-rans and stand ins..

Yes, the point was to recruit this team to go on a suicide mission to defeat the Collectors.  That's been done and I'm guessing most won't stick around since they did what Cerberus paid them to do.

I don't think that was his point.
We built a team of the best of the best.  How could you possibly go about topping that for ME3?

[Guanxii]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Guanxii wrote...

The whole point of ME2 is that you are building the deadliest best of the best  team in the entire galaxy so I really don't see why everybody seems to be assuming direct control that we will get almost an entirely new squad of also-rans and stand ins..

Yes, the point was to recruit this team to go on a suicide mission to defeat the Collectors.  That's been done and I'm guessing most won't stick around since they did what Cerberus paid them to do.

I don't think that was his point.
We built a team of the best of the best.  How could you possibly go about topping that for ME3?

Exactly. And we didn't spend 50+ hours for nothing making damn sure these summa ****es are loyal enough to give up their lives for you only to then decide to high tail it just before the **** really start to hit the fan - it doesn't make any kind of sense.

Modifié par Guanxii, 30 avril 2010 - 04:18 .

[JeanLuc761]

Guanxii wrote...
Exactly. And we didn't spend 50+ hours for nothing making damn sure these summa ****es are loyal enough to give up their very lives just to high tail it just before the **** really start to hit the fan.

Realistically, one could make that exact same argument about the ME1 squadmates that took a backseat in ME2, but your point is still valid.  The emphasis on character development, loyalty, and the new subplots introduced would all be more or less a waste if they didn't come back in a big way in ME3.

[Master Smurf]

Have to agree with jlb524 - remember we see the impending invasion, not the crew.

Shep, Miranda and Jacob know whats at stake; Garrus who has lost it all but found you once again is in it for the long haul and Tali will stick it out unless duty to her people calls her away.

Most of the others may not stick around - though the case can be made that most of them seek you out / return once signs of the invasion occur.

For the record: I hope we keep as much (ME ME2) crew as possible even though I believe Bioware spent too much time on Characters and dialogue instead of creating a larger universe.

[Master Smurf]

@ Guanxii - Summa b!tch - LOL - RIP Bernie.......and I'm out like a Muddafcukka

[JeanLuc761]

 After thinking about it and observing this forum for a while, I believe we can sum up most of these speculative disputes (such as this thread) as such:

No, we cannot be sure any ME2 characters will return, just as we cannot be sure any ME1 characters will return.  We can discuss.  We can debate.  We can instigate pointless attacks against one another over trivial matters.  We can argue over such subjective matters as to which character(s) is our favorite.  We can argue that fans of the ME2 characters should be stabbed in the back in order to be "fair" to the ME1 fans.

What we cannot do, apparently, is respect each others opinion and what should be an equal "right" to happiness and closure for everyone.  We often resist the concept of uniting all under one banner in favor of narcissism, pessimism, and the mentality that "only my opinion matters."  We would rather fight each other than work together as a collective for the best possible experience for every single established fan, no matter their preferences.

Because of this, we get trolls, flamewars, and all around jackassery over the most trivial and subjective matters.  Fanbases are divided based upon character favoritism, preferences in gender, or loyalty to either game.  Instead of accepting all these traits among the fans, we use them as ammunition to attack others because their ideas and preferences don't fit our own.

I want Mass Effect 3 to be the best game it possibly can be...for EVERYONE, not just myself.  Why can't we all put aside our differences and actually work together to achieve that goal?

Please note that I've been speaking in generalities throughout this entire speech, but I think I'd be hard pressed to find ANYONE on this forum who hasn't seen exactly what I'm talking about.  Been feeling the need to get that one off my chest for a while.  

Modifié par JeanLuc761, 30 avril 2010 - 04:52 .

[jlb524]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Guanxii wrote...

The whole point of ME2 is that you are building the deadliest best of the best  team in the entire galaxy so I really don't see why everybody seems to be assuming direct control that we will get almost an entirely new squad of also-rans and stand ins..

Yes, the point was to recruit this team to go on a suicide mission to defeat the Collectors.  That's been done and I'm guessing most won't stick around since they did what Cerberus paid them to do.

I don't think that was his point.
We built a team of the best of the best.  How could you possibly go about topping that for ME3?

And, if that entire team dies except 2 people do you have to recruit another team of the best of the best in ME3?

[JeanLuc761]

jlb524 wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Guanxii wrote...

The whole point of ME2 is that you are building the deadliest best of the best  team in the entire galaxy so I really don't see why everybody seems to be assuming direct control that we will get almost an entirely new squad of also-rans and stand ins..

Yes, the point was to recruit this team to go on a suicide mission to defeat the Collectors.  That's been done and I'm guessing most won't stick around since they did what Cerberus paid them to do.

I don't think that was his point.
We built a team of the best of the best.  How could you possibly go about topping that for ME3?

And, if that entire team dies except 2 people do you have to recruit another team of the best of the best in ME3?

Well, given that this forum has made such a big deal over "Mass Effect 2 doesn't make me feel like my choices matter!"...I would have to say no.  You had the best, you got them killed.  

Ideally, I feel that people who lost their squadmates simply shouldn't have access to them (or a replacement) and instead will have to make due with the two survivors, the un-killable Ashley/Kaiden and Liara, and maybe a few new recruits to replace the inevitable departure of 2-3 of our Mass Effect 2 squad.

Sure, you'd have less content on that playthrough but you'd still be able to finish the game.

[Jonesey2k]

To be honest I think that your squadies (if any survived) will split up to act as your lieutenants in order to rally people to your side and to try and raise the awarness of the upcoming war.

[jlb524]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

Ideally, I feel that people who lost their squadmates simply shouldn't have access to them (or a replacement) and instead will have to make due with the two survivors, the un-killable Ashley/Kaiden and Liara, and maybe a few new recruits to replace the inevitable departure of 2-3 of our Mass Effect 2 squad.

A small squad might be good enough for the ME3 plot, though.  In ME2, it felt like Shepard needed a larger crew b/c she had gone 'rogue' by joining up with Cerberus and thus didn't have the back-up from the major military/political powers of the galaxy.   Thus, a lot of merc bodies were needed to throw at the Collectors.  This threat was also a lot smaller than an large scale invasion by the Reapers (what will probably happen in ME3) so a team of 10 could handle it.  In ME3, Shepard will need a lot more than that to stop the Reapers....she'll need armies and fleets.

In ME3, I imagine Shepard's goal will be to unite the major military/political powers of the galaxy.  Shepard will probably have to do various tasks (involving lots of squad-based combat of course) to win the respect/gratitude of each faction and to ensure they will be present for the final show-down against the Reapers.  The size of Shepard's personal crew isn't going to have much affect on the final Reaper battle, as that battle will be won ultimately through Shepard's diplomatic skills and her ability to unite the major powers and gather their armies to her cause.

Keeping this in mind, it might be wiser for Shepard to send off some of her ME2 crew to facilitate these diplomatic relations.  For example, Tali might be more useful leaving Shepard's crew to return to the Flotilla and ensure quarian cooperation in the upcoming war against the Reapers than as being another squad member since Shepard already has enough squad members (in theory, she only needs two characters to fullfill the role as 'squad mate').

Modifié par jlb524, 30 avril 2010 - 05:22 .

[MaxQuartiroli]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

Guanxii wrote...
Exactly. And we didn't spend 50+ hours for nothing making damn sure these summa ****es are loyal enough to give up their very lives just to high tail it just before the **** really start to hit the fan.

Realistically, one could make that exact same argument about the ME1 squadmates that took a backseat in ME2, but your point is still valid.  The emphasis on character development, loyalty, and the new subplots introduced would all be more or less a waste if they didn't come back in a big way in ME3.

THIS is the point... ME3 should be the final act, it should be the moment of the final battle against the reapers.. Unless they are not giving us a 100 hours game there is really no time to build up a new crew.. and players should now get on with the remains of their crew from the 2 previous game.. If they were able to keep all of them alive and loyal they will have a most powerful squad than a player who wasn't able to keep all the squad members loyal, I believe that the time for finding allies and friends is over

And I don't believe you can compare ME1 with ME2... just remember the words of Garrus when you talk with him about the suicide mission and you tell him he should be already skilled after the fight with Saren... If you remember well he said you that it was different then... It was everything so rushed that there wasn't even the time to understand what you were doing that everything was already over.. This time things were different because everybody knew what you were going to do.. therefore the recruitement and the loyalty is much more important in ME2 than in ME1, there is a "stonger" relationship between you and your companions than in the past...and therefore it would be really a waste if they won't give a continuity to this in the final chapter...

[kraidy1117]

Not everyone was paid Jib, and some have no reason to leave and some even have romances with Shepard. If they bring Liara Ash or Kaidan as a squadmate, then Miri, Jacob, Jack, Garrus, Tali and Thane will also be made recruitable. Also it's safe to say Tali will be a squadmate, simply because the fanbase is massive.



Miri

Garrus

Tali

Grunt

Mordin

Legion

Thane



Have no reason to leave and have good reasons to stay with Shepard.

[jlb524]

MaxQuartiroli wrote...

THIS is the point... ME3 should be the final act, it should be the moment of the final battle against the reapers.. Unless they are not giving us a 100 hours game there is really no time to build up a new crew.. and players should now get on with the remains of their crew from the 2 previous game.

ME2 was unique in that the entire story just focues on building up a crew and gaining their loyalty so they will fight good for you.  Of course ME3 won't do that (ME1 didn't either).

In ME1, you had your entire crew, sans Liara, by the time you left the Citadel for the first time.  They just kind of joined up with you, and you didn't have to do any of the recruitment mission/loyalty mission nonsense.

ME3 could follow a similar pattern that ME1 did, where a few new people just join up with you and they are 100% committed to the mission from the get-go.

[kraidy1117]

jlb524 wrote...

MaxQuartiroli wrote...

THIS is the point... ME3 should be the final act, it should be the moment of the final battle against the reapers.. Unless they are not giving us a 100 hours game there is really no time to build up a new crew.. and players should now get on with the remains of their crew from the 2 previous game.

ME2 was unique in that the entire story just focues on building up a crew and gaining their loyalty so they will fight good for you.  Of course ME3 won't do that (ME1 didn't either).

In ME1, you had your entire crew, sans Liara, by the time you left the Citadel for the first time.  They just kind of joined up with you, and you didn't have to do any of the recruitment mission/loyalty mission nonsense.

ME3 could follow a similar pattern that ME1 did, where a few new people just join up with you and they are 100% committed to the mission from the get-go.

Thats Bioware telling me ME2 was a waste of time. They won't get my money if they pull that sh*t.

[jlb524]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Not everyone was paid Jib, and some have no reason to leave and some even have romances with Shepard. If they bring Liara Ash or Kaidan as a squadmate, then Miri, Jacob, Jack, Garrus, Tali and Thane will also be made recruitable. Also it's safe to say Tali will be a squadmate, simply because the fanbase is massive.

They could make up any reason for any character to leave...they did this with ME1 characters in ME2 and some of them were romance options.

Besides, the romances can continue with these characters even if they aren't in the squad.  Like I mentioned, if Tali goes back to the flotilla to rally the quarians, Shepard could go there and visit her anytime to see how things our going and how she is dealing with quarian politics.  If romance, Tali would have some extra dialog for that Shepard.

[kraidy1117]

jlb524 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Not everyone was paid Jib, and some have no reason to leave and some even have romances with Shepard. If they bring Liara Ash or Kaidan as a squadmate, then Miri, Jacob, Jack, Garrus, Tali and Thane will also be made recruitable. Also it's safe to say Tali will be a squadmate, simply because the fanbase is massive.

They could make up any reason for any character to leave...they did this with ME1 characters in ME2 and some of them were romance options.

Besides, the romances can continue with these characters even if they aren't in the squad.  Like I mentioned, if Tali goes back to the flotilla to rally the quarians, Shepard could go there and visit her anytime to see how things our going and how she is dealing with quarian politics.  If romance, Tali would have some extra dialog for that Shepard.

If Liara is a squadmate, hen all the li will be made recruitable. Simple as that, if none of the ME2 LI are going to be made recruitable, then none of ME LI shoulds be made recruitable.

[Nozybidaj]

Guanxii wrote...

Exactly. And we didn't spend 50+ hours for nothing making damn sure these summa ****es are loyal enough to give up their lives for you only to then decide to high tail it just before the **** really start to hit the fan - it doesn't make any kind of sense.

1)  If ME2 took you over 50+ hours what were you doing?  Letting the game run while you did your laundry?  Washing the car?  Going for groceries?
2)  Who says they are loyal at the end of the game?
3)  Who says they are alive at the end of the game?

[Nozybidaj]

jlb524 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Not everyone was paid Jib, and some have no reason to leave and some even have romances with Shepard. If they bring Liara Ash or Kaidan as a squadmate, then Miri, Jacob, Jack, Garrus, Tali and Thane will also be made recruitable. Also it's safe to say Tali will be a squadmate, simply because the fanbase is massive.

They could make up any reason for any character to leave...they did this with ME1 characters in ME2 and some of them were romance options.

Besides, the romances can continue with these characters even if they aren't in the squad.  Like I mentioned, if Tali goes back to the flotilla to rally the quarians, Shepard could go there and visit her anytime to see how things our going and how she is dealing with quarian politics.  If romance, Tali would have some extra dialog for that Shepard.

Agreed, though I doubt any of them are going to be squad mates.

[kraidy1117]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Guanxii wrote...

Exactly. And we didn't spend 50+ hours for nothing making damn sure these summa ****es are loyal enough to give up their lives for you only to then decide to high tail it just before the **** really start to hit the fan - it doesn't make any kind of sense.

1)  If ME2 took you over 50+ hours what were you doing?  Letting the game run while you did your laundry?  Washing the car?  Going for groceries?
2)  Who says they are loyal at the end of the game?
3)  Who says they are alive at the end of the game?

1) not everyone rushed there game, my first playthrough took 50 hours and counting with the new DLC
2) um there loyal at the end of my game
3) there alive at the end of my game

It's safe to sat that everyone is going to have at least one playtrhough where everyone is alive and if you killed people on purpose then you should be punshed. Simple as that.

[jlb524]

I just think that if they try to be 'fair' to all the fans of the characters, the game and story will suffer and become too generic.



For example, I think it would make sense for Miranda to stay with Shepard and continue acting as the ship's XO. She would then be an available squad member.



Tali, on the other hand, would benefit Shepard (and the story) by returning to the flotilla to deal with quarian politics and rally them to the cause of stopping the Reapers. She wouldn't be an available squad member.



Should they remove Tali's potential major contribution to the plot out of 'fairness' b/c Miranda or Liara or whomever is a squad mate?