I agree that there should be some risk for having teammates die on the mission. Whether it be storyline repercussions or party member repercussions. Players who say that they shouldn't be punished for killing off characters they don't like undermine that mission, and players who say they killed them off for storyline purposes should be affected in some way in ME 3.
Can we really be sure ANY ME2 characters will return?
Débuté par
RobertM5252
, avril 25 2010 10:35
Retour en haut
#202
Posté 30 avril 2010 - 05:42
kraidy1117
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jlb524 wrote...
I just think that if they try to be 'fair' to all the fans of the characters, the game and story will suffer and become too generic.
For example, I think it would make sense for Miranda to stay with Shepard and continue acting as the ship's XO. She would then be an available squad member.
Tali, on the other hand, would benefit Shepard (and the story) by returning to the flotilla to deal with quarian politics and rally them to the cause of stopping the Reapers. She wouldn't be an available squad member.
Should they remove Tali's potential major contribution to the plot out of 'fairness' b/c Miranda or Liara or whomever is a squad mate?
The Tali fans would, Tali has a huge fanbase, the biggest one for ME. If she is not made a squadmate, and gets a cameo there will be ALOT of angry fans. If anything, you should be given the option to send her to the fleet or havew her in your party. People seem to forget that ME3 is the final act, people want closure.
#203
Guest_aynxalot_*
Posté 30 avril 2010 - 05:47
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Nozybidaj wrote...
aynxalot wrote...
. And, I don't know about anyone else, but having become emotionally attached to myME2squad and then suddenly having to save the galaxy with a whole different squad is not only a disappointment, it's a deal-breaker.
Gee, that sounds eerily familiar.
I don't disagree with anyone that the state of the ME1 LIs getting sidelined was crappy. However, the devs have stated their reasoning. They want, no, need those characters back for the 3rd installment. If anything, there's more of an argument for Virmire Survivor and Liara to have seriously major roles in ME3, thus cementing their return as squadmates. I accept BW's reasoning that ME2 was a sacrifice to ensure their survival. (Do I think the cameos were handled well? Not so much. I expect much grovelling and making up for it in ME3).
As I said before, however, ME2 is the middle. ME3 is the end. I agree with another POV I read that the ME1 LIs had their game, the ME2s have now had their game. Hopefully (and, IMO, likely), both sets will get to have ME3 to get closure on their romances.
To reiterate some key points:
-ME3 is the last game, which not only means resolutions, but a lack of the importing limitations from the first two games. It will be far more open for branching and difinitive consequences for decisions.
-There were 2 major focuses in ME2- introducing the mid-arc 'hopelessness' plot, and character development. I can see being introduced 2-3 optional squaddies in ME3 (to at least up survivability for the proverbial 'bloodbathers',) but we must have already met them or it will feel shallow in comparison. However, I think the ME1 squad and the remains of the ME2 squad will be the main focus.
-We have been told there will be consequences involving our LI decisions in ME3. That tells me that, at the very least, the ME2 LIs have a good chance of returning. What point is there for a confrontation if your ME2 LI is dead or has left the ship?
-Garrus and Tali became LIs out of sheer will of the fanbases. BW listens. They don't do every single little thing we ask, but they definitely take into account our major hopes and wishes. They also have a setting in the options that, when enabled, allows them to datamine our PTs. Why do that if they didn't intend to use the info to tweak ME3?
#204
Posté 30 avril 2010 - 05:49
jlb524
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Tali has a lot of fans...on this forum...which is a small portion of the ME playerbase. I doubt most ME gamers who are casual fans would care if Tali was cameoed.
The poor forum mods would have to deal with the angry Tali fans here, but BW will still rake in the cash for ME3 regardless.
And as I've said, people can get 'closure' from their favorite character even if they are not in your squad. Let's pretend a squad mate Tali in ME3 will get 3 conversations with Shepard, 5 if romanced. What if non-squad mate Tali gets the same amount of dialog? The only difference is that you have to go to the flotilla to speak with her instead of going down to engineering. Another difference is that you can't take her with you in combat. Another difference is that, on the flotilla, Tali can have a huge role in the story, while on the Normandy, she cannot. Her plot potential is wasted if she's hanging out in engineering all day.
The poor forum mods would have to deal with the angry Tali fans here, but BW will still rake in the cash for ME3 regardless.
And as I've said, people can get 'closure' from their favorite character even if they are not in your squad. Let's pretend a squad mate Tali in ME3 will get 3 conversations with Shepard, 5 if romanced. What if non-squad mate Tali gets the same amount of dialog? The only difference is that you have to go to the flotilla to speak with her instead of going down to engineering. Another difference is that you can't take her with you in combat. Another difference is that, on the flotilla, Tali can have a huge role in the story, while on the Normandy, she cannot. Her plot potential is wasted if she's hanging out in engineering all day.
#205
Posté 30 avril 2010 - 05:50
VampireCommando
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They better bloody return, I hope Miranda does anyway lol, nah they will find some way of doing I mean come on, it's Bioware
#206
Posté 30 avril 2010 - 05:51
kraidy1117
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jlb524 wrote...
Tali has a lot of fans...on this forum...which is a small portion of the ME playerbase. I doubt most ME gamers who are casual fans would care if Tali was cameoed.
The poor forum mods would have to deal with the angry Tali fans here, but BW will still rake in the cash for ME3 regardless.
And as I've said, people can get 'closure' from their favorite character even if they are not in your squad. Let's pretend a squad mate Tali in ME3 will get 3 conversations with Shepard, 5 if romanced. What if non-squad mate Tali gets the same amount of dialog? The only difference is that you have to go to the flotilla to speak with her instead of going down to engineering. Another difference is that you can't take her with you in combat. Another difference is that, on the flotilla, Tali can have a huge role in the story, while on the Normandy, she cannot. Her plot potential is wasted if she's hanging out in engineering all day.
No there should be an option, thats it. If she is given a cameo, then no LI should be a squad, including Liara. Some people want Tali at therte side, osme people want Miri at there side, some want Garrus on there side ect.
#207
Posté 30 avril 2010 - 05:51
jlb524
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aynxalot wrote...
I don't disagree with anyone that the state of the ME1 LIs getting sidelined was crappy. However, the devs have stated their reasoning.
Oh trust me, they'll cook up a good reason for sidelining the ME2 squad as well. Casey is the PR spin master.
#208
Posté 30 avril 2010 - 05:51
MaxQuartiroli
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kraidy1117 wrote...
jlb524 wrote...
MaxQuartiroli wrote...
THIS is the point... ME3 should be the final act, it should be the moment of the final battle against the reapers.. Unless they are not giving us a 100 hours game there is really no time to build up a new crew.. and players should now get on with the remains of their crew from the 2 previous game.
ME2 was unique in that the entire story just focues on building up a crew and gaining their loyalty so they will fight good for you. Of course ME3 won't do that (ME1 didn't either).
In ME1, you had your entire crew, sans Liara, by the time you left the Citadel for the first time. They just kind of joined up with you, and you didn't have to do any of the recruitment mission/loyalty mission nonsense.
ME3 could follow a similar pattern that ME1 did, where a few new people just join up with you and they are 100% committed to the mission from the get-go.
Thats Bioware telling me ME2 was a waste of time. They won't get my money if they pull that sh*t.
I agree... Mass Effect is a trilogy, and a trilogy usually follows some rules:
The 1st Chapter set the world, the main characters, the history and the main opponents...
The 3rd Chapter is the ending one, where everything comes to an end... it must be the more epic the unforgettable one...because it represents the final confrontation but it "just" complete the story built by the first two, without introducing too many things or characters...
Between these two chapters there is the 2nd chapter who has the duty to join them, giving a continuity to the story, and introducing all the things and setting the bases for the final chapter, who draws on everything were built by it... (and also by the first)
In Mass Effect Saga we can say that the 1st and the 2nd game (chapters) performed their duties in a wonderful way.. If the 3rd chapter will break these rules and won't fullfil its duties..well then the whole trilogy will be wasted, not only the single game itself....
#209
Posté 30 avril 2010 - 05:51
Nozybidaj
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aynxalot wrote...
I don't disagree with anyone that the state of the ME1 LIs getting sidelined was crappy. However, the devs have stated their reasoning. They want, no, need those characters back for the 3rd installment. If anything, there's more of an argument for Virmire Survivor and Liara to have seriously major roles in ME3, thus cementing their return as squadmates. I accept BW's reasoning that ME2 was a sacrifice to ensure their survival.
OK, lets assume that is correct.
So, if this is case and the characters from ME2 do come back, what was the purpose of keeping the ME1 LI's sidelined? I mean if everyone from ME2 is coming back anyway, what was the point of keeping the ME1 LI's out of ME2? Seems to me that if this is the case whether a character could die in ME2 or not had absolutely no impact on them in ME3.
#210
Posté 30 avril 2010 - 05:53
kraidy1117
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jlb524 wrote...
Tali has a lot of fans...on this forum...which is a small portion of the ME playerbase. I doubt most ME gamers who are casual fans would care if Tali was cameoed.
The poor forum mods would have to deal with the angry Tali fans here, but BW will still rake in the cash for ME3 regardless.
And as I've said, people can get 'closure' from their favorite character even if they are not in your squad. Let's pretend a squad mate Tali in ME3 will get 3 conversations with Shepard, 5 if romanced. What if non-squad mate Tali gets the same amount of dialog? The only difference is that you have to go to the flotilla to speak with her instead of going down to engineering. Another difference is that you can't take her with you in combat. Another difference is that, on the flotilla, Tali can have a huge role in the story, while on the Normandy, she cannot. Her plot potential is wasted if she's hanging out in engineering all day.
also you seem to forget that ME3 will most likely get leaked, what if it leaks that none of the ME2 squadmates return or even get closure, alot of people won't buy it. I sure as hell won't, I know alot of people who won't. Bioware will lose money. People seem to forget tbut making new characters and getting new VA will be more expensive then using the characters from ME and ME2 and the VAs they already have.
#211
Posté 30 avril 2010 - 05:53
Nozybidaj
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MaxQuartiroli wrote...
I agree... Mass Effect is a trilogy, and a trilogy usually follows some rules:
The 1st Chapter set the world, the main characters, the history and the main opponents...
The 3rd Chapter is the ending one, where everything comes to an end... it must be the more epic the unforgettable one...because it represents the final confrontation but it "just" complete the story built by the first two, without introducing too many things or characters...
Between these two chapters there is the 2nd chapter who has the duty to join them, giving a continuity to the story, and introducing all the things and setting the bases for the final chapter, who draws on everything were built by it... (and also by the first)
In Mass Effect Saga we can say that the 1st and the 2nd game (chapters) performed their duties in a wonderful way.. If the 3rd chapter will break these rules and won't fullfil its duties..well then the whole trilogy will be wasted, not only the single game itself....
YOU could say that if you feel so inclined. WE do not agree. If your criteria for chapter 2 is continuing the story from chapter 1 it failed miserably.
#212
Posté 30 avril 2010 - 05:53
jlb524
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kraidy1117 wrote...
No there should be an option, thats it. If she is given a cameo, then no LI should be a squad, including Liara. Some people want Tali at therte side, osme people want Miri at there side, some want Garrus on there side ect.
I just fear if they try to be fair to all fans, the story (including the individual characters stories and the main plot) will suffer and become too generic. If you don't mind that just so you can have Tali or Garrus by your side, then that's your prerogative.
Plus, they didn't care about fan 'fairness' when they made ME2.
#213
Posté 30 avril 2010 - 05:54
Onyx Jaguar
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To spend more resources making new characters as the primary writer was shifted in a different direction, thusly making it difficult to write for two characters who have a 50/50 chance of being in ME 2, another character who they had no input on, and a third character who would not be in the majority of people's games.
#214
Posté 30 avril 2010 - 05:54
Nozybidaj
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jlb524 wrote...
Plus, they didn't care about fan 'fairness' when they made ME2.
I seriously doubt they will in ME3 either.
#215
Posté 30 avril 2010 - 05:55
kraidy1117
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Nozybidaj wrote...
aynxalot wrote...
I don't disagree with anyone that the state of the ME1 LIs getting sidelined was crappy. However, the devs have stated their reasoning. They want, no, need those characters back for the 3rd installment. If anything, there's more of an argument for Virmire Survivor and Liara to have seriously major roles in ME3, thus cementing their return as squadmates. I accept BW's reasoning that ME2 was a sacrifice to ensure their survival.
OK, lets assume that is correct.
So, if this is case and the characters from ME2 do come back, what was the purpose of keeping the ME1 LI's sidelined? I mean if everyone from ME2 is coming back anyway, what was the point of keeping the ME1 LI's out of ME2? Seems to me that if this is the case whether a character could die in ME2 or not had absolutely no impact on them in ME3.
whos to say some have to be part of the main story? If they are and you killed them on purpose you should be punshed. ME3 is the final act, the ME LI getting sidelined in ME2 was logical if they are coming back in ME3 as squadmates amnd get closure.
#216
Posté 30 avril 2010 - 05:56
kraidy1117
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Nozybidaj wrote...
jlb524 wrote...
Plus, they didn't care about fan 'fairness' when they made ME2.
I seriously doubt they will in ME3 either.
realy? So why did Tali and Garrus ocme back? Why did they become LI? Ya that argument has alot of faults. Nice try.
#217
Posté 30 avril 2010 - 05:58
Nozybidaj
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Onyx Jaguar wrote...
I agree that there should be some risk for having teammates die on the mission. Whether it be storyline repercussions or party member repercussions. Players who say that they shouldn't be punished for killing off characters they don't like undermine that mission, and players who say they killed them off for storyline purposes should be affected in some way in ME 3.
Agreed, I am perfectly prepared for the fact that I will miss out on their cameos in ME3.
#218
Posté 30 avril 2010 - 05:59
kraidy1117
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Nozybidaj wrote...
Onyx Jaguar wrote...
I agree that there should be some risk for having teammates die on the mission. Whether it be storyline repercussions or party member repercussions. Players who say that they shouldn't be punished for killing off characters they don't like undermine that mission, and players who say they killed them off for storyline purposes should be affected in some way in ME 3.
Agreed, I am perfectly prepared for the fact that I will miss out on their cameos in ME3.
It's people like you nozy that give the impresion to Bioware that should do cameos.
#219
Posté 30 avril 2010 - 06:00
Onyx Jaguar
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Nozybidaj wrote...
Onyx Jaguar wrote...
I agree that there should be some risk for having teammates die on the mission. Whether it be storyline repercussions or party member repercussions. Players who say that they shouldn't be punished for killing off characters they don't like undermine that mission, and players who say they killed them off for storyline purposes should be affected in some way in ME 3.
Agreed, I am perfectly prepared for the fact that I will miss out on their cameos in ME3.
Word
#220
Posté 30 avril 2010 - 06:00
jlb524
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kraidy1117 wrote...
also you seem to forget that ME3 will most likely get leaked, what if it leaks that none of the ME2 squadmates return or even get closure, alot of people won't buy it. I sure as hell won't, I know alot of people who won't. Bioware will lose money. People seem to forget tbut making new characters and getting new VA will be more expensive then using the characters from ME and ME2 and the VAs they already have.
You honestly think the average ME fan (who constitutes the majority of ME fans) is going to care who's in the squad in ME3? No. They'll see the new game coming out and will be charmed by all the cool new features....they won't care if ME3 has absolutely no old squad mates.
A lot of people on these forums complained when the ME1 squad wasn't coming back....did that hurt sales of ME2? No. Why? B/c most ME gamers don't care about characters as much as we do here on the BSN. They'll buy it if it's ME.
And, VA's would cost the same no matter if they were used before or not. Or, they could reuse ones they've used before for new characters. I just don't think creating new characters costs so much more than reusing old ones like most people seem to believe. I think it would be easier to make new characters as the developers of the game would then have less variables to worry about as they go along and code the game. More variables to worry about = more complicated programming = more developer man/woman hours = more $$$$.
Modifié par jlb524, 30 avril 2010 - 06:01 .
#221
Posté 30 avril 2010 - 06:01
Nozybidaj
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kraidy1117 wrote...
Nozybidaj wrote...
Agreed, I am perfectly prepared for the fact that I will miss out on their cameos in ME3.
It's people like you nozy that give the impresion to Bioware that should do cameos.
Honestly kraidy, I very much doubt BW gives a damn what either one of us think about who should and should not get cameos. I would wager its already been decided, one way or the other.
#222
Posté 30 avril 2010 - 06:02
Onyx Jaguar
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I agree with Jlb
Also I have been on the record on saying that I wouldn't care if we got an all new squad in ME 3. It wouldn't be ideal, but I really wouldn't care.
/backs out of thread
EDIT: Also damn your name, you know who you are
Also I have been on the record on saying that I wouldn't care if we got an all new squad in ME 3. It wouldn't be ideal, but I really wouldn't care.
/backs out of thread
EDIT: Also damn your name, you know who you are
Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 30 avril 2010 - 06:03 .
#223
Posté 30 avril 2010 - 06:03
MaxQuartiroli
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Nozybidaj wrote...
YOU could say that if you feel so inclined. WE do not agree. If your criteria for chapter 2 is continuing the story from chapter 1 it failed miserably.
I am a Liara romancer too... And I was really disappointed when I saw....well.... what they did to her
But even if I didn't like it I am not able to see that there is no continuity from the first game.. If you want to see no-continuity you should see what they did with DA:O and the xpac.. By the way this is ME forum and let's continue talk about of ME...
And I also said that the 2nd chapter has not ONLY the duty to continue the story but also to set the bases from the final one.... And if the loyalty mission, the recruitments was intended by BW with this purpose, they made a great job imho...
#224
Posté 30 avril 2010 - 06:03
kraidy1117
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jlb524 wrote...
kraidy1117 wrote...
also you seem to forget that ME3 will most likely get leaked, what if it leaks that none of the ME2 squadmates return or even get closure, alot of people won't buy it. I sure as hell won't, I know alot of people who won't. Bioware will lose money. People seem to forget tbut making new characters and getting new VA will be more expensive then using the characters from ME and ME2 and the VAs they already have.
You honestly think the average ME fan (who constitutes the majority of ME fans) is going to care who's in the squad in ME3? No. They'll see the new game coming out and will be charmed by all the cool new features....they won't care if ME3 has absolutely no old squad mates.
A lot of people on these forums complained when the ME1 squad wasn't coming back....did that hurt sales of ME2? No. Why? B/c most ME gamers don't care about characters as much as we do here on the BSN. They'll buy it if it's ME.
And, VA's would cost the same no matter if they were used before or not. Or, they could reuse ones they've used before for new characters. I just don't think creating new characters costs so much more than reusing old ones like most people seem to believe. I think it would be easier to make new characters as the developers of the game would then have less variables to worry about as they go along and code the game. More variables to worry about = more complicated programming = more developer man/woman hours = more $$$$.
*facepalm* Tali and Garrus came back, two very popular characters. Creating new characters takes time and money. You can't argue that with me, because I work in the buisness industry and Bioware and EA would be stupid to make new characters, get more VAs ect whioch cost more money.
#225
Guest_aynxalot_*
Posté 30 avril 2010 - 06:03
Guest_aynxalot_*
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Nozybidaj wrote...
aynxalot wrote...
I don't disagree with anyone that the state of the ME1 LIs getting sidelined was crappy. However, the devs have stated their reasoning. They want, no, need those characters back for the 3rd installment. If anything, there's more of an argument for Virmire Survivor and Liara to have seriously major roles in ME3, thus cementing their return as squadmates. I accept BW's reasoning that ME2 was a sacrifice to ensure their survival.
OK, lets assume that is correct.
So, if this is case and the characters from ME2 do come back, what was the purpose of keeping the ME1 LI's sidelined? I mean if everyone from ME2 is coming back anyway, what was the point of keeping the ME1 LI's out of ME2? Seems to me that if this is the case whether a character could die in ME2 or not had absolutely no impact on them in ME3.
OK, I will retiterate. Liara's role (and Ash/Kaidan's) in ME3 is almost certainly going to be plot centric. Meaning what they plan to happen in ME3 cannot be done without them. The squaddies from ME2, while being able to have largish roles, cannot be plot centric. To me, while the sidelining in ME2 was frustrating, it indicates a big payoff. Liara and Ash/Kaidan were specifically spared, which is more than the ME2 LIs get.
I don't see Tali going back to the Flotilla. She's not an admiral, probably has no interest in being one (if for no other reason than if your MShep romanced her, she wouldn't leave him to go politicking). Garrus has nowhere else to go (if he had any desire to go back home or to stay in C-Sec, he would have done it after Shepard died). Miranda quits Cerberus to stay with you, maybe Jacob too. Now, what I can see happening is if you are to rally allies to your side, the game will put you there personally, not off-screen it. They'll make you work for it through combat, dialogue, Paragon/Renegading. If the squaddie who is relevant to each ally is alive, then it's a content bonus. If not, then you miss out and have to work harder.
However, I agree with all those who don't see everyone coming back. The default ME3 game will almost certainly not be "everyone lived", but it also can't be "everyone died." They have to have at least 2 living defaults. In ME2, the default Virmire Survivor is the one opposite your gender (though I don't know if it assumes you two had a relationship, as I've not played a default game). I can see the same thing for ME3- the LIs for your particular gender will likely be alive, plus 1-2 key others. But, like the default ME2 Urdnot leader is Wreave rather than Wrex, people who import will be "rewarded" (or punished) by continuing with what squadmates they preserved.
