69 réponses à ce sujet

[iharal5]

Warning, mild spoilers ahead.

I bought Mass Effect 2 a few weeks ago, without ever having played any of the Mass Effect games, or read any books. Therefore,  Mass Effect 2 was my real introduction to the series, and to be honest; I loved it. Mass Effect 2 was one of the best games I had ever played. And afterwards I fell in love with the whole universe, I started posting on Mass Effect forums, watching vids on youtube, and exploring the ME universe via the ME wikia. And of course, I felt like I had to buy Me1, because all you guys said that "OMG Mass Effect 2 sucks Me1 is waaay better".

So, of course, I went happily down to the store and bought, waiting for an experience that would overcome Me2. The first think I noticed when starting up the game was that it was lagging. Or, well, not exactly lagging, but that it had a far lower FPS than Me2. Okay, fair enough, not that big a deal. But the real problems start once I start playing the game itself;

 - Kaidan has no personality. Seriously, I'm getting the feeling that he is just blood and flesh, and then the arch-stereotypical brain of the common man. And yet, people are loving him, making threads for his return in Me3 and bla bla bla. Honestly, a blind volus unable to speak who could not hold a gun would be a more entertaining squadmate. After having tried all possible conversations with him (as Femshep) I still can't figure if there's more to him than just a soldier with a nice haircut.

- Horrific fighting. Or, well, not horrific. But really bad compared to ME2. The crosshair scale makes it hard to see if you're actually hitting anything. Your teammates are more like puppets to control rather than individuals that helps you. 

- Auto-save. When I started my save I enabled auto-save, so that I wouldn't have to stop the game and save every 10 minutes. Well, turned out, even with auto-save enabled, you still have to do that, since the auto-save doesn't save more than like 2-3 times on each mission. This especially bothered me on Noveria, where I died against Benezia, and had to start like 25 minutes back, just because I thought the autosave would handle these kind off things.

- The terrible Mako controls. I have the feeling that this have been complained about a lot, so I won't go much further with it.

- The Noveria boss fight. My god, I was so freaking annoyed when I for the third time got my arm stuck in the crate, and the Asari Commando finished me off, and I had to replay the Benezia dialouge for the third time. This part of the game was directly destructive for my experience of the game.

- The lack of debt in characters. Out of all the characters, Ashley, Liara and Wrex was the only ones that I really got to know. Garrus was for me just being a regular Turian (which changed in ME2, where I completely felt he was my brother from another mother). Tali neither didn't give me to much to cheer for. She was mosly annoying when answering questions about the geth to the other squadmembers (such as Wrex).

Now, as I've so far been ****ing this game over with whining, I think it is fair to say that I also think it exceeds Mass Effect 2 in some ways. For instance the story. Mass Effect 2 had just about no progress at all, and no clear archenemy to defeat. While in ME1, I pissed my pants out of respect for Saren and Sovereign. Also, a lot of the dialogue is way better in ME1, and of course the Citadel w/ Presidium is friggin awesome.

All I want is people to stop whining about ME2. I'm pretty sure that if you had tried Mass Effect 2 first, and then Mass Effect 1 afterwards, you'd be feeling the same way as I. ME2 improved almost every aspect of the game, maybe with exception of the story. But the characters, the graphics, the fighting, the animations, the places, it all has way more depth than in ME1. And I still haven't seen any reasonable argument contradicting that.
 
So in the end, what I'm trying to do; I whine about the whiners who whine about Mass Effect 2.

Sorry if some of the english wasn't too good here. I'm from Norway and still have three years left until I'm finished with English =)

[The Governator]

I would agree that some aspects of ME2 are superior to ME1. But for me this is primarily a Role Playing Game. I do not like shooters. If ME were shooters without the insanely good RP and story I would not even touch them, much less play them.



I could go into a list of why I prefer ME1 over ME2, but I will not. I still love ME2, I do...but I love ME1 even more.

[Snaxme]

Mass Effect was supposed to be a shooter. And RPG shooter, but a shooter nonetheless. And, quite frankly, it wasn't a very good one (gameplay-wise). It was the rest of the game that made people love it. Sure, it's buggy as all hell, the Mako is atrocious, and some of the squadies are pretty boring, but it had a carefully wrought story and universe that simply put every other game of the same genre that was out by then to shame.



That said, I still prefer ME2, because even though the story is worse, the overall experience is sweeter.

[Slayer299]

I agree with some of your points but not all by any means.

- Kaidan has no personality. Seriously, I'm getting the feeling that he is just blood and flesh, and then the arch-stereotypical brain of the common man. And yet, people are loving him, making threads for his return in Me3 and bla bla bla. Honestly, a blind volus unable to speak who could not hold a gun would be a more entertaining squadmate. After having tried all possible conversations with him (as Femshep) I still can't figure if there's more to him than just a soldier with a nice haircut.

I didn't think Kaidan was quite *that* bad, never liked him, but I think he is just a *little* better than a blind volus, but that tends to be in the realm of opinion.

- Horrific fighting. Or, well, not horrific. But really bad compared to ME2. The crosshair scale makes it hard to see if you're actually hitting anything. Your teammates are more like puppets to control rather than individuals that helps you. 

- Auto-save. When I started my save I enabled auto-save, so that I wouldn't have to stop the game and save every 10 minutes. Well, turned out, even with auto-save enabled, you still have to do that, since the auto-save doesn't save more than like 2-3 times on each mission. This especially bothered me on Noveria, where I died against Benezia, and had to start like 25 minutes back, just because I thought the autosave would handle these kind off things.

Why would you rely on autosave alone? That's just asking for trouble, especially when you think about the fact that since your new to this game you don't know how often it makes autosaves. I save about twice per mission generally and leave the rest to autosaves myself.

- The Noveria boss fight. My god, I was so freaking annoyed when I for the third time got my arm stuck in the crate, and the Asari Commando finished me off, and I had to replay the Benezia dialouge for the third time. This part of the game was directly destructive for my experience of the game.

Was it the fight that was difficult and how did you get your arm stuck in a crate? I know I ran into a glitch recently where Benezia hit my char with a push that shoved me so I was floating in the air and stuck there till I died and that happened twice.

- The lack of debt in characters. Out of all the characters, Ashley, Liara and Wrex was the only ones that I really got to know. Garrus was for me just being a regular Turian (which changed in ME2, where I completely felt he was my brother from another mother). Tali neither didn't give me to much to cheer for. She was mosly annoying when answering questions about the geth to the other squadmembers (such as Wrex).

I'm guessing you meant depth and not debt, unless you were beating them at poker on the Normandy

Now, as I've so far been ****ing this game over with whining, I think it is fair to say that I also think it exceeds Mass Effect 2 in some ways. For instance the story. Mass Effect 2 had just about no progress at all, and no clear archenemy to defeat. While in ME1, I pissed my pants out of respect for Saren and Sovereign. Also, a lot of the dialogue is way better in ME1, and of course the Citadel w/ Presidium is friggin awesome.

All I want is people to stop whining about ME2. I'm pretty sure that if you had tried Mass Effect 2 first, and then Mass Effect 1 afterwards, you'd be feeling the same way as I. ME2 improved almost every aspect of the game, maybe with exception of the story. But the characters, the graphics, the fighting, the animations, the places, it all has way more depth than in ME1. And I still haven't seen any reasonable argument contradicting that.

I agree that playing ME1 after ME2 can be jarring since ME2 did make good improvements, but there were a lot of things that weren't improved or degraded. One was the characters, its not that they sucked compared to Wrex, Tali and co., but the focus of ME1 wasn't on recruiting your team, it was about stopping Saren and Sovereign. So ME2 had the time to give you to get to know your char's more in depth than in ME1. However you still could learn quite a bit about Wrex, Tali, Ash and Co, not to mention giving you information on this universe and the people in it, enough at least to give you a feel for tthis universe.

And well, I can't figure out why you'd even compare the graphics and animations between the two, I mean come on, seriously? The same goes for combat, it's smoother and cleaner in ME2, but that was after they could fix the problems from the first game.

The places - as I mentioned before ME1 and ME2 are quite different in scope; ME 1 was a grander, with more epic feel to it. You were visiting planets and systems while trying to stop Saren and the Geth from destroying the universe! Inbetween missions where the Geth would actually try and kill you in an ambush on two or three planets. To me it made it feel more personal, that they knew who I was and wanted to stop my Shepard.
ME2 was geared to be smaller and (supposedly) darker game view. You went around recruiting team members from all over and then later on doing loyalty missions inbetween the interminable planetary scanning. The Collectors were *a* threat and to humans, but not so much to the rest of the galaxy and not in an immediate way either.

[Tirigon]

[quote]iharal5 wrote...


 - Kaidan has no personality. Seriously, I'm getting the feeling that he is just blood and flesh, and then the arch-stereotypical brain of the common man. And yet, people are loving him, making threads for his return in Me3 and bla bla bla. Honestly, a blind volus unable to speak who could not hold a gun would be a more entertaining squadmate. After having tried all possible conversations with him (as Femshep) I still can't figure if there's more to him than just a soldier with a nice haircut.[/quote[
True.

[quote]- Horrific fighting. Or, well, not horrific. But really bad compared to ME2. The crosshair scale makes it hard to see if you're actually hitting anything. Your teammates are more like puppets to control rather than individuals that helps you. [/quote]
True

[quote]- Auto-save. When I started my save I enabled auto-save, so that I wouldn't have to stop the game and save every 10 minutes. Well, turned out, even with auto-save enabled, you still have to do that, since the auto-save doesn't save more than like 2-3 times on each mission. This especially bothered me on Noveria, where I died against Benezia, and had to start like 25 minutes back, just because I thought the autosave would handle these kind off things.[/quote]
It´s the same in ME2

[quote]- The terrible Mako controls. I have the feeling that this have been complained about a lot, so I won't go much further with it.[/quote]
The controls are terrible? How so? I think the Mako itself is, but not the controls.

[quote]- The Noveria boss fight. My god, I was so freaking annoyed when I for the third time got my arm stuck in the crate, and the Asari Commando finished me off, and I had to replay the Benezia dialouge for the third time. This part of the game was directly destructive for my experience of the game.[/quote]
The autosave should be after the dialogue, but except for that this is one of the best fights in the game imo.

[quote]- The lack of debt in characters. Out of all the characters, Ashley, Liara and Wrex was the only ones that I really got to know. Garrus was for me just being a regular Turian (which changed in ME2, where I completely felt he was my brother from another mother). Tali neither didn't give me to much to cheer for. She was mosly annoying when answering questions about the geth to the other squadmembers (such as Wrex).[/quote]
This is a problem that is true, but in ME2 it´s the same.

[quote]Now, as I've so far been ****ing this game over with whining, I think it is fair to say that I also think it exceeds Mass Effect 2 in some ways. For instance the story. Mass Effect 2 had just about no progress at all, and no clear archenemy to defeat. While in ME1, I pissed my pants out of respect for Saren and Sovereign. Also, a lot of the dialogue is way better in ME1, and of course the Citadel w/ Presidium is friggin awesome.[/quote]
True.

[quote]I'm pretty sure that if you had tried Mass Effect 2 first, and then Mass Effect 1 afterwards, you'd be feeling the same way as I. ME2 improved almost every aspect of the game, maybe with exception of the story. But the characters, the graphics, the fighting, the animations, the places, it all has way more depth than in ME1. And I still haven't seen any reasonable argument contradicting that.[/quote]

Yea. I had ME2 before 1, too, and I couldn´t agree more.

 

Modifié par Tirigon, 26 avril 2010 - 05:41 .

[Jsmith0730]

iharal5 wrote...

- The Noveria boss fight. My god, I was so freaking annoyed when I for the third time got my arm stuck in the crate, and the Asari Commando finished me off, and I had to replay the Benezia dialouge for the third time. This part of the game was directly destructive for my experience of the game.

One thing I'd really wish they would implement, not just in the ME games, but in all games (especially DAO, because this is where it really bugged me) is accessing the menu from dialog. Maybe it's just me but I like to check out every dialog option in a conversation before I choose, sometimes I pick one that sounds different than I read it and so I have to ctrl+alt+del out of the game and start the entire conversation over. :|

We also need to be able to skip cutscenes. I'll definitely watch it the first time but the second and third I just want to get on with combat.

Maybe this was changed in ME2. IDK I haven't played it yet.

Modifié par Jsmith0730, 26 avril 2010 - 07:45 .

[Bluebruiser]

all in all i agree with you. Characters in ME2 are better, fighting is better, gameplay is smoother, graphics are better and are less resource intensive and on and on. ME1 story arc is better but ME2 is really about the characters as is the case in any trilogy.



I played ME1 first and absolutely fell in love with the game from the character creation screen on. ME2 didn't have the same initial effect because I was expecting it but when I think about which game I enjoy more, ME2 comes out WAY on top.

[Masticetobbacco]

ME1 had superior storyline, theme, character. They had the Mako, which was damn fun despite the controls, and much more RPG customization



ME2 was a shooter with good mechanics and graphics. RPG mechanics toned down, no mako, and a crappy 5 mission substitute for it. Story was pretty much: "get squad, make them loyal, GTFO to collector base"

[bas273]

Don't forget that Mass Effect 1 is more than two years old. You call it under-rated but you first played the sequel and you're two years late. Imagine that ME2 doesn't even exist and compare this game to the RPG's from 2006-2007. It's definitely not over-rated imo, I'd call it under-rated because it's one of the best games ever.

[TJSolo]

Yet when ME3 comes out with whatever improvements. More new people will start with it and some(very few) will say ME1 and/or ME2 is overrated based upon the improvements that made them finally want to get into the ME-verse in ME3.

Completely ignoring the progress that those improvements would never be if not for the prior game(s).

[Sailears]

bas273 wrote...

Don't forget that Mass Effect 1 is more
than two years old. You call it under-rated but you first played the
sequel and you're two years late. Imagine that ME2 doesn't even exist
and compare this game to the RPG's from 2006-2007. It's definitely not
over-rated imo, I'd call it under-rated because it's one of the best
games ever.

Sums it up nicely.
I would imagine that the majority who start with ME2 will find ME1 not so good, but that is the nature of progress over time. The same could be said of Half Life - playing it now, many years on probably wouldn't have the same appeal as playing it when it was released (ok bad comparison I suppose, the time difference is significant ).

[sonsonthebia07]

Mass Effect was a great game from when it came out. I don't think I have the right to judge it, because I got it about one month before the release of ME2. I think that if I had gotten it at its release that my opinions of the game would differ substantially, so I'll just leave it at that.

[Elvis_Mazur]

The Governator wrote...

I would agree that some aspects of ME2 are superior to ME1. But for me this is primarily a Role Playing Game. I do not like shooters. If ME were shooters without the insanely good RP and story I would not even touch them, much less play them.

I could go into a list of why I prefer ME1 over ME2, but I will not. I still love ME2, I do...but I love ME1 even more.

If you don't like shooters, so you are playing the wrong game.

[Masticetobbacco]

bas273 wrote...

Don't forget that Mass Effect 1 is more than two years old. You call it under-rated but you first played the sequel and you're two years late. Imagine that ME2 doesn't even exist and compare this game to the RPG's from 2006-2007. It's definitely not over-rated imo, I'd call it under-rated because it's one of the best games ever.

yea mass effect 1 was released 2 years ago. At that time, it was regarded as one of the most innovative, and awesome games ever created. You can't really call it overated if you compare it to mass effect 2 which is "supposed" to be an improvement

its like comparing duke nukem and duke nukem 4ever.

oh wait...

[darknoon5]

bas273 wrote...

Don't forget that Mass Effect 1 is more than two years old. You call it under-rated but you first played the sequel and you're two years late. Imagine that ME2 doesn't even exist and compare this game to the RPG's from 2006-2007. It's definitely not over-rated imo, I'd call it under-rated because it's one of the best games ever.

This.
I'd say ME2 is better, but ME1 is still amazing and considering how much older it is, I'd say that makes up for it. Also, the plotline is better. No arguements there.
Combat is worse, but ME1 was the first shooter Bioware had made for a while. And they were also balancing the RPG element as well. Squad AI is a big improvement in ME2-I finally don't have to babysit an 1000year old Krogan and Turian infriltrator every damn firefight haha.
The boss fight on Noveria is bugged, but every Bioware game has bugs-infact, just about every game ever made has bugs.
The only really relevant point you have is character development-yes ME2 does it better:)

Modifié par darknoon5, 27 avril 2010 - 08:39 .

[otreblA_SNAKE_ITA]

You say it's overrated but I can say you're wrong: before playing ME1 I thought PC gaming was slowly going to die...after I played ME1 I thought PC gaming wasn't dead...just there are less good software houses.

Mass Effect and above all Bioware, gave me (again) faith in PC gaming. Sure, ME isn't perfect but for suer that's one of the best games I've played in the last years

Modifié par otreblA_SNAKE_ITA, 27 avril 2010 - 09:07 .

[tonnactus]

[quote]iharal5 wrot
 - Kaidan has no personality.
[/Quote]
More personality then a tank krogan.More personality then a former rich girl that had daddy issues.I dont even compare him with jacob...
Kaidan had a interesting story with a turian and his biotic training.Did you ever got so far in dialogs with him???


[Quote]
 The crosshair scale makes it hard to see if you're actually hitting anything. [/Quote]
What?? If you hit targets,their shields and lifepoints decrease like in the second part.


[quote]
- Auto-save.
[/quote]
Why autosave in a game that gives you more freedom with that then a lot of other console games??

[Quote]
- The terrible Mako controls. I have the feeling that this have been complained about a lot, so I won't go much further with it.[/Quote]
Not,explain it.I still dont know what problems people had with the mako.Maybee they never found put that they could zoom with it, i dont know...

[Quote]
- The Noveria boss fight. My god, I was so freaking annoyed when I for the third time got my arm stuck in the crate, and the Asari Commando finished me off, and I had to replay the Benezia dialouge for the third time. [/Quote]

At least biotics in this game use more then warp. A pluspoint.When playing a vanguard a Mass Effect 2 vanguard charge is bugged as hell."Cannot reach the target" that is just 2 meters in front of me.Charged enemies stood at boxes when i charged them.I could count the number of times i had problems like this in Mass Effect.I cant do this for the second part.

[quote]
- The lack of debt in characters. Out of all the characters, Ashley, Liara and Wrex was the only ones that I really got to know.
[/quote]
You obviously fail with kaidan that had as much debt as subject zero.I also want to notice that if a character dont have problems(loaylity quests) or dont show them in the game doesnt mean they have less debt.

[quote9
Garrus was for me just being a regular Turian
[/quote]

You are wrong again.Like garrus said in 2,a regular turian nether question orders.Or dissapointed his father when leaving c-sec.

Modifié par tonnactus, 27 avril 2010 - 09:32 .

[tonnactus]

darknoon5 wrote...
Squad AI is a big improvement in ME2-I finally don't have to babysit an 1000year old Krogan and Turian infriltrator every damn firefight haha.

The only thing they improved is that they dont shoot you in the back anymore.But instead ran in my line of fire and complain about getting hit.The saves also nether remember what weapon you advised your squadmates to use and they could override your ammo type with theirs less effective ones. Sometimes charge right in the front of enemies or standing at boxes...

[SLooPPy JOE]

Is it weird that I agree with the OP 100%?

Maybe it's just because I've been playing more shooters lately than RPG's but I found ME2 to be amazingly challenging and fun as far as combat goes... but for ME1 I got so frustrated with the "saving" and after playing on normal up to the Benezia fight I just turned it on casual and enjoyed the story.
Keeping in mind that ME1 was made a few years ago here's my rating:
ME1
story 10/10
game play 5/10
visuals 7/10
ME2
story 7.5/10
game play 9/10
visuals 10/10

Oh and yes I got ME2 first and since then I've bought ME1, one of the books... and now I'm sitting here on the forums
Only thing I haven't understood about the ME community is why you guys like Tali so much... but I guess that's a whole different topic.

[Slayer299]

SLooPPy JOE wrote...

Is it weird that I agree with the OP 100%?

Maybe it's just because I've been playing more shooters lately than RPG's but I found ME2 to be amazingly challenging and fun as far as combat goes... but for ME1 I got so frustrated with the "saving" and after playing on normal up to the Benezia fight I just turned it on casual and enjoyed the story.
Keeping in mind that ME1 was made a few years ago here's my rating:
ME1
story 10/10
game play 5/10
visuals 7/10
ME2
story 7.5/10
game play 9/10
visuals 10/10

Oh and yes I got ME2 first and since then I've bought ME1, one of the books... and now I'm sitting here on the forums
Only thing I haven't understood about the ME community is why you guys like Tali so much... but I guess that's a whole different topic.

How could we not like Tali? 

[bas273]

This is like watching The Two Towers and then calling The Fellowship of the Ring over-rated because there are no cool battles.

You just can't rate ME1 when you're two years late and started with the second game of a trilogy.
Sure, you are allowed to have your own opinion and if you think that ME1 sucks, good for you. But don't call the first game over-rated.

For example:
'I think that The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion is over-rated. The graphics aren't that good, the facial animations in Dragon Age Origins look much better!'

Technology is constantly improving. I think the graphics of Mass Effect 1, back in 2008, were brilliant (I was amazed by the first screenshots of Shepard and your squad members), so I would give it a 9,5/10 and not a 7/10 for the visuals.

It's also a bit hard to compare these games. ME1 has a great storyline and allows you to explore a fascinating universe full of lore. ME2 is a bit 'dark' and offers fast&fun combat. The story isn't as epic as in ME1.

Modifié par bas273, 28 avril 2010 - 10:04 .

[grouchy951]

I also started with ME2 first, played it through three times and then received my copy of ME1 and played that one through.



At first some of the details of ME1 annoyed me compared to ME2. Graphics, driving the mako, and teammates not following movement orders are some that stand out.



But after playing it all the way through, then a second time and discovering more missions and content, I was disappointed with ME2.



ME2 has better graphics, but not as much depth. The character animations for males and females appear to just be different skins on the same graphic models. The global cooldown for tech and biotic powers, less side missions.



My take, it is episode two of a three episode set. One they had some time to establish and develop. Two they knocked out to hold peoples attention until three wrapped everything up.

[RollaWarden]

ME:2, I thought was very *Empire Strikes Back*-ish. Loved it, but it really just set up the final showdown. All in all, I thought it was very skillful in that regard. My maleShep deepened bonds with old friends (Garrus, my BFF!, Tali (broke my heart when I turned her down), and forged new bonds (Miranda, Jacob, and Samara were favorites). Enjoyed it as much as ME1, but for different reasons. Took it on its own merits, I guess.

Hey, OP--I think I get what you're saying.  Overrated ME1?  Nah, not so much.  But I DO readily agree that ME:2 was a decided improvement.  Loved 'em both, really, for different reasons.  And I also agree that I disagree strongly with those who don't like ME:2.  DA:O will have to go a long way in its sequel to supplant ME as my favorite all-time series.  'Been gaming for over 30 years, and I can tell you, this old codger believes sincerely that the ME series are the best RPG's of all time.  ME1 AND ME2.
Goodness, folks.  Let's take that last comment about "all-time best" with a salt grain.  If you disagree, chalk it up to this old gamer's senility...

Modifié par RollaWarden, 02 mai 2010 - 01:02 .