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[MaaZeus]

Adriano87 wrote...

MaaZeus wrote...

Amongst Jedi, in terms of raw force power Anakin Skywalker WAS the strongest. He was sort of force in flesh, (if prequel garbage is to be believed) only his own doubts and fears and lack of proper training held him back. After his mutilation he lost almost all of it and is below Palpatine in terms of power. Luke, I believe, is close second being son of Anakin and all.

About other Jedi, I have no idea. Yoda is incredibly wise but also stuck in the old and too dogmatic ways, seriously limiting the potential of Jedi, banning marriage and therefore making force-potential bloodlines go thinner etc... just because they fear dark side too much, and this was pretty much their downfall too as I see it. Luke found more balanced way, more "grey".


Amongst Jedi, you could say Nihilus was the strongest in terms of raw power but he is an abomination and also weak because he is limited by his hunger. So my vote goes to Palpatine. He is incredibly strong in force, very devious and intelligent manipulator and alone with help of couple of expendable "apprentices" he destroyed the old order of the Jedi. Plus after all this years (ever since I saw RotJ as a kid) his personality and voice still gives me shivers.

yea Anakin is some kind of overdosed Jedi ... so unnatural and the order let him to love (the biggest mistake ever)

Not sure what you are meaning, but to clarify, Order didnt let him love and  that is one of the problems Anakin (and some other Jedi in the past) faced in the stoic version of old order. According to novel (quite good compared to movie BTW) Obiwan knew about Anakins little affair, (though Anaking himself never knew that he knew) but letted it be, probaply because he tought it was harmless and probaply good for him as he sensed Anakin is quite different. A clear mistake for his part I think, as Anakin had to lead a doublelife, which is a strong emotional stress on its own as you have to work in keeping it all in their correct places and secret at a same time, and count in all the crap he got thrown on as extra, Palpatines manipulation and all, this whole ordeal confused him and eated him alive, and therefore he fell. Love itself wasnt the problem, it was the sum of all crap he faced.

So yeah, I prefer the side of Grey like Jolee Bindo and Luke Skywalker. Clearly on side of light, but still grey: True balance of force and life. IIRC this was how Jedi order originally was too in old order, banning all lifes little pleasures and emotions because of their potential danger (if they lose their correct places in life) came later after few mishaps and turns to darkside. Correct if I am wrong.

Modifié par MaaZeus, 03 mai 2010 - 02:49 .

[svenus97]

SPOILERS FROM KOTOR 2



The Exile and Kreia/Darth Treya are obviously the most powerful ones, The abillity to kill the force and the abillity to manipulate the one that can kill the force are beyond anything Palpatine or Luke could ever dream about.



And Kreia is just bat**** awesome.

[MaaZeus]

svenus97 wrote...

SPOILERS FROM KOTOR 2

The Exile and Kreia/Darth Treya are obviously the most powerful ones, The abillity to kill the force and the abillity to manipulate the one that can kill the force are beyond anything Palpatine or Luke could ever dream about.

And Kreia is just bat**** awesome.

I think Kreia is just on par with Palpatine. She is master manipulator, a female Palpatine. But I count Exile in same class as Nihilus, s/he is also an abomination, their powers are not natural. If I understood correctly, one sucks life and one sucks force. Though exile doesnt hunger for it like Nihilus does. S/he doesnt do it intentionally, s/he just is and lives as any other Jedi, only some masters see him/her as a void devoid of force, and Kreia must make him/her activate his power if she wants to damage and kill the force.

Modifié par MaaZeus, 03 mai 2010 - 03:52 .

[svenus97]

MaaZeus wrote...

svenus97 wrote...

SPOILERS FROM KOTOR 2

The Exile and Kreia/Darth Treya are obviously the most powerful ones, The abillity to kill the force and the abillity to manipulate the one that can kill the force are beyond anything Palpatine or Luke could ever dream about.

And Kreia is just bat**** awesome.

I think Kreia is just on par with Palpatine. She is master manipulator, a female Palpatine. But I count Exile in same class as Nihilus, s/he is also an abomination, their powers are not natural. If I understood correctly, one sucks life and one sucks force. Though exile doesnt hunger for it like Nihilus does. S/he doesnt do it intentionally, s/he just is and lives as any other Jedi, only some masters see him/her as a void devoid of force, and Kreia must make him/her activate his power if she wants to damage and kill the force.

The Exile and Nihilus are actually pretty similar, when Malachor V got destroyed by the Mass Shadow Generator they both felt and did something to the force. The Exile was exiled and all bonds s/he maked ceased and was actually no longer such a threat, while Nihilius was found by Kreia and she taught him how to controll his hunger, but both feed on Force, and since the Force is basically life, you are right indeed.

But Nihilius knows how to do it, and unlike the Exile, he does it on purpose.

But I still feel Kreia is the most powerful Sith Lord EVAR!. Wielding 3 lightsabers without any hands, reading your mind, a master manipulator, turned half of the jedi into "Sith".

[url=http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/7/7a/FromTheMomentYouAwoke.ogg Kreia Pwns[/url]

Modifié par svenus97, 03 mai 2010 - 07:35 .

[atheelogos]

Adriano87 wrote...

@svenus97
your explaining on Exile and Nihilus nad their transformation on Malacor V is great.

between the manipulators, Kreia is much stronger than Palpatine. though one of the strongest weapons of all dark lords of the sith is Tempting and Manipulation

"between the manipulators, Kreia is much stronger than Palpatine." I wouldn't go that far. She was a great manipulator, granted, but she was no Palpatine.

[Seagloom]

I think that depends on how you look at it. Palpatine was manipulating to gain secular power in the galaxy. Kreia started off being interested in attaining knowledge of the Force and ultimately conspired to undermine and destroy it. She did not only manipulate Sion, Nihilus, and the Exile, but also the entire Jedi council of that era, as well as Revan; who had incredible Force ability.

Kreia was in many ways responsible for the events of KotOR, which laid down the groundwork for her scheme in KotOR2. It seems like her accomplishments were not as grand as Palatine's because her goals were metaphysical in nature. I'm hesitant to definitely state Kreia is a better manipulator but she is at least in the same league as Palpatine.

Modifié par Seagloom, 04 mai 2010 - 05:44 .

[svenus97]

Seagloom wrote...

I think that depends on how you look at it. Palpatine was manipulating to gain secular power in the galaxy. Kreia started off being interested in attaining knowledge of the Force and ultimately conspired to undermine and destroy it. She did not only manipulate Sion, Nihilus, and the Exile, but also the entire Jedi council of that era, as well as Revan; who had incredible Force ability.

Kreia was in many ways responsible for the events of KotOR, which laid down the groundwork for her scheme in KotOR2. It seems like her accomplishments were not as grand as Palatine's because her goals were metaphysical in nature. I'm hesitant to definitely state Kreia is a better manipulator but she is at least in the same league as Palpatine.

You are indeed right!

Palpatine did things to gain more power, and to just have it, while Kreia wanted to destroy the force.

I still belive Kreia is the better sith, but lets not forget that Palpatine was actually Chancellor, and controlling the Senat, which is almost the same as controlling the republic itself. His work was on a much higher scale, but what Kreia managed to do is controll the JEDI COUNCIL itself!!! And we all know how that worked out for Palpatine.
Meaning she not only controlled Revan, Sion, Nihilus, The Exile, Vrook, Kavar, Zez Kai-Ell, but even Atris, and she has to be the most stubborn jedi I have ever seen.

But I do not belive she would talk about her self as a Sith, she just joined the force that could do what the Jedi could not, and as she said herself, and I qoute : ":...I use the Force as I would use a poision, using it in hope of learning how to destroy it..."

wow...that has to be the nerdiest post I have ever wrote

[Daerog]

From what I can gather from Wookiepedia, it seems like Sidious was just the most successful Sith, but most influencial would probably be Darth Bane, who is closest to being the Sith'ari, if not actually being the Sith'ari.

As for Jedi? I would guess Luke Skywalker, as he is the only one I know of who was able to rebuild the Jedi Order after it was destroyed, and I don't think the Jedi Order was ever as destroyed as it was during the reign of Palpatine.

[mattp420]

Does Galen Marek not count? He took Luke's old surname when he was known as "Starkiller". Seriously though, does he not count?

Maybe he'll be considered after October 26?

Modifié par mattp420, 04 mai 2010 - 09:54 .

[svenus97]

mattp420 wrote...

Does Galen Marek not count? He took Luke's old surname when he was known as "Starkiller". Seriously though, does he not count?

Maybe he'll be considered after October 26?

Pffh, controlling a giant star destroyed doesn't count

[atheelogos]

mattp420 wrote...

Does Galen Marek not count? He took Luke's old surname when he was known as "Starkiller". Seriously though, does he not count?

Maybe he'll be considered after October 26?

No he doesn't he was strong, but not influential

[facialstrokage]

This is most INFLUENTIAL, not most powerful. Power is boring, it's canonically set that Palpatine and Luke are the most powerful Sith/Jedi, respectively. Most influential though: Darth Bane, hands down.

Jedi: Qui Gon. He discovered the secret of immortality and passed it to Yoda, who then passed it to Obiwan and hence was able to guide luke after he died.

Source: starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Qui_gon

[pdspazzz]

Darth Asmodeus

[VampireCommando]

Mace windu. Nuff said.

[Druss99]

Isnt it canon in the novels that Luke is the most powerful Jedi that ever lived?



As far as Sith influence on the galaxy goes Darth Bane started the rule of 2 that eventually lead to their revenge on the jedi but Sidious ruled the galaxy that has to easily make him number 1.

[VampireCommando]

Adriano87 wrote...

Druss99 wrote...

Isnt it canon in the novels that Luke is the most powerful Jedi that ever lived?

some of the friends has convinced me [in the last posts] that master Yoda and master Kenobi were greater than Luke

If i'm honest i never concidered luke to even be a propper Jedi, i mean come on he learn how to wield a saber a lil bit and use the force a litle, he did not train all his life like the other Jedi did, therefore i think he is infirior.

[Druss99]

Sorry didnt have time to read all the posts was in a bit of a hurry.



It was my understanding that Luke was the most powerful Jedi ever to live. He was even more powerful than Anakin. Not sure how Leia fits into that though. Yoda and Kenobi did have a great influence on the galaxy training Luke in such a short space of time. But that just goes to show how powerful Luke was, barely any training and he still comes out ontop against one of the most powerful Sith Lords in history and Vader.



I think Captain Obvious's above post sums it up pretty well, some of the points are debatable like Luke being the greatest sword fighter of all time but in general its pretty accurate. One thing I will add is that in Legacy of the Force series they had to find a way to write him out from fighting Caedus because it would have been a one sided fight with no real drama. Although that was a terrible book series, damn you Karen Traviss.

[flem1]

Kreia? Pfft. She was powerful, but had a really stupid goal that obviously had to fail.



Palpatine? Hah. He had an attainable and somewhat legendary goal and got there, but his reign sure didn't last long.