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The Epic Mass Effect 2 vs Mass Effect 1 Debate


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#151
RyuGuitarFreak

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Terror_K wrote...

What made ME1's story superior was that it was a bit of a mystery that unfolded as you went and gradually altered the focus and significance as you went along, unwrapping things gradually and revealing what's really going on. By the time you get to the end the focus and intent is very different to what it was at the beginning, and on top of that each major place provides a different experience and situation to deal with, each with their own mysteries and aspects to uncover.

ME2 is basically just basically getting people for a suicide mission and going on it; there's very little mystery as to what's to come, no unfolding plot and little difference from one objective to the next. It basically consists of "try to recruit person, no mission to get person, get person, do loyalty mission for person, gain loyalty and take them on suicide mission" rinsed and repeated 10 times. Thankfully the quality of the writing and the difference in situations you come across stop it being overly repetitive and boring, but its essentially the same thing over and over and there's nothing really overarching narrative-wise related to it that unfolds and has you doing anything really different. Sure, there are the what I'd called "Illusive Man" missions that get more to the point of the plot, but they aren't as well done as ME1's were and the focus remains the same throughout. Sure, there's a couple of twists in ME2, but none that really change the purpose and focus of your mission or give it a truly new perspective.

Both games are extremely well-written, and Mass Effect 2 definitely has fantastic stories within the missions themselves, but the overall story is extremely straightforward and simple compared to ME1's; it basically comes down to "recruiting people for suicide mission" while ME1's shifts as it goes.

To me story of ME1 is simple too if you remove the big twist. As you said, ME2 has its bits of mistery, and I didn't find the bits on ME1 that great to make that part of ME2 so disappointing. The core of the side missions are different, and more focused on the characters, but the missions focused on the world and other characters are still there, they just focused more on your squad. It's just a different focus on how the game goes IMO, it's hard to compare it. For me it's just a matter of taste.
ME2 shifts as it goes too through the "Ilusive Man missions". It's hard to describe or make a comparison without giving spoilers. The big plot twist is at the end of the game which doesn't really give a new perspective or the focus on your mission, but it didn't make the story less engaging IMO.

Modifié par RyuGuitarFreak, 30 avril 2010 - 12:00 .


#152
DarthCaine

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Wait, there was a plot twist in ME1 ?

#153
Brako Shepard

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To Terror K,



I guess this will have to definitely disagree on. I do undertand what you mean by Mass Effect 2 having a much shorter story, but again I will go back to it being because it does not have the same aim to be as big as Mass Effect. ME2 is more or less setting up the final part of the trilogy.



The one thing I really do love about the story of Mass Effect 2. Is getting to know your team members and why they want to help you with your mission. The main story to me isn't short, its just a basic mission. ME had Shepard having to go around the galaxy to figure out what the hell was going on. In Mass Effect 2 he knows exactly who he is after this time, and its more about getting the right team so he stands a chance of completing his mission.

#154
Onyx Jaguar

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As for gameplay v story, I will always side with Gameplay.

However storyline can ruin good gameplay, but storyline will not save bad gameplay. Take that for what you will.

EDIT:  Also I do not understand the shorter story arguement against ME 2.  ME 1's story was much shorter and I consider that a positive.  I can plow through ME 1 in five hours, I can't do that in ME 2.  Thusly I have played ME 1 more so because of that.

Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 30 avril 2010 - 03:37 .


#155
Ryzaki

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Onyx Jaguar wrote...

As for gameplay v story, I will always side with Gameplay.

However storyline can ruin good gameplay, but storyline will not save bad gameplay. Take that for what you will.


Huh? I've never had a bad storyline ruin good gameplay. :blink:

Yeah a good storyline won't save bad gameplay (usually I'll use god mode cheats just so I can ignore the combat) but the reverse isn't true.

#156
uberdowzen

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DarthCaine wrote...

Wait, there was a plot twist in ME1 ?


The revelation about Saren perhaps not being the true evil :devil:. Sorry for being so vague but the forum is spoiler free and I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. On virmire...

Oh and what the conduit actually is.

Modifié par uberdowzen, 30 avril 2010 - 03:40 .


#157
Onyx Jaguar

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Ryzaki wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

As for gameplay v story, I will always side with Gameplay.

However storyline can ruin good gameplay, but storyline will not save bad gameplay. Take that for what you will.


Huh? I've never had a bad storyline ruin good gameplay. :blink:

Yeah a good storyline won't save bad gameplay (usually I'll use god mode cheats just so I can ignore the combat) but the reverse isn't true.


I am a big Metal Gear fan.  I hated Metal Gear Solid 4, with a passion.  NOt because of its gameplay which I thought was good, it was its storyline.  (rofl PLOT TWISTS).  I am also a big Unreal Tournament fan, the introduction of a storyline in Unreal Tournament 3 was really damn stupid and the game was more barebones compared to the previous games.  I would also say that the main storyline in Fallout 3 was a detriment to the game.

EDIT:  Basically what I am saying with that comment is, is that a game's gameplay can be good, but not if the storyline makes it a chore.

Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 30 avril 2010 - 03:48 .


#158
Brako Shepard

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Onyx Jaguar wrote...

As for gameplay v story, I will always side with Gameplay.

However storyline can ruin good gameplay, but storyline will not save bad gameplay. Take that for what you will.


This I really agree with.

As much as I am fan of BioWares stories. If the gameplay was utter turd I would not even bother. I wouldn't sit through a crap movie, just as I wouldn't plough through a game that had bad controls and utter crap AI etc...I don't care how good the story was. We are playing a video game at the end of the day, and to me this is what will eventually see the game industry overtake the movie industry.

Games give you the chance to be the star of an amazing tale. But if the gameplay is utter ****e, its just not going to happen.

This is where Bioware as a developer are at there strongest. Excellent stories, with amazing gameplay.

#159
DarthCaine

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uberdowzen wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

Wait, there was a plot twist in ME1 ?


The revelation about Saren perhaps not being the true evil :devil:. Sorry for being so vague but the forum is spoiler free and I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. On virmire...

Everyone posts ME1 spoilers here.

I figured he wasn't the true threat since we knew about the reapers since the Citadel, and that Sovereign wasn't really just a ship wasn't really suprising. It was more suprising the thing about the Citadel (but nowhere near KOTOR's epic twist)

Modifié par DarthCaine, 30 avril 2010 - 03:43 .


#160
Onyx Jaguar

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Almost all Plot Twists pale in comparison to how well executed KOTOR's plot twist. Even if you didn't like the storyline overall in that game it was more than worth it to see that reveal.

#161
DarthCaine

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Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Almost all Plot Twists pale in comparison to how well executed KOTOR's plot twist.

I thought MGS3's ending plot twist was better (I actually cried a bit at the ending)

Modifié par DarthCaine, 30 avril 2010 - 03:49 .


#162
Onyx Jaguar

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DarthCaine wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Almost all Plot Twists pale in comparison to how well executed KOTOR's plot twist.

I thought MGS3's ending plot twist was better (I actually cried a bit at the ending)


That the #$## was undercover the whole time or that Adam was really the agent you were suppose to meet?

EDIT:  Ah I see, the revelation of the 3432s role was pretty damn sad at the end.  MGS3 had a number of excellent plot twists.

Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 30 avril 2010 - 03:52 .


#163
Ryzaki

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Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

As for gameplay v story, I will always side with Gameplay.

However storyline can ruin good gameplay, but storyline will not save bad gameplay. Take that for what you will.


Huh? I've never had a bad storyline ruin good gameplay. :blink:

Yeah a good storyline won't save bad gameplay (usually I'll use god mode cheats just so I can ignore the combat) but the reverse isn't true.


I am a big Metal Gear fan.  I hated Metal Gear Solid 4, with a passion.  NOt because of its gameplay which I thought was good, it was its storyline.  (rofl PLOT TWISTS).  I am also a big Unreal Tournament fan, the introduction of a storyline in Unreal Tournament 3 was really damn stupid and the game was more barebones compared to the previous games.  I would also say that the main storyline in Fallout 3 was a detriment to the game.

EDIT:  Basically what I am saying with that comment is, is that a game's gameplay can be good, but not if the storyline makes it a chore.


Oh okay. I thought you were saying a bad story would ruin the gameplay. That's why I was a little confused.

#164
DarthCaine

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Onyx Jaguar wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Almost all Plot Twists pale in comparison to how well executed KOTOR's plot twist.

I thought MGS3's ending plot twist was better (I actually cried a bit at the ending)


That the #$## was undercover the whole time or that Adam was really the agent you were suppose to meet?

That #$## was undercover

#165
Onyx Jaguar

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Yeah that twist was very shocking, I honestly did not expect that at all. It made sense when going back through the game again, but the whole circumstances of that situation...

#166
Brako Shepard

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Aside from Mass Effect series. What 5 games would you say the story and gameplay are both worthy of 5 out of 5?



Here's mine...



BioShock.

Rise of the Argonauts.

Viking : Battle for Asgard.

HITMAN : Blood Money.

Final Fantasy VII.

#167
Onyx Jaguar

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I personally have a hard time with that. I think the one advantage video games have is in the ability for 1st person narrative, however storyline has been problematic in this regard. Morrowind is one of my favorite games, but for that it is more the setting and not the story. The Half-Life games have been progresivly been getting better, but the storyline isn't up to snuff yet (Episode 2 was a big leap forward in that). And as much as I like GTA 4's story and gameplay the actual missions held the game back quite a bit.



I would have to vote Portal and Starcraft, those are the only ones I can think of where I was engrossed in both ways, however Portal is pretty light on plot compared to other games but as a first person narrative I feel it succeeds quite a bit. Metal Gear Solid 3 also was fantastic in both regards. I would feel the same about Uncharted 2 but I'd have to play it again, however that game seemed too much on rails for me to consider the gameplay that highly.

#168
Brako Shepard

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I felt the same way about Oblivion. Don't get me wrong there were some great story sections. The dark brotherhood or what ever they were called was agreat section. But I wouldn't say it was the story that grabbed me, the gameplay was great but it wasn't even that. It was the whole setting and the era it was set in.



I get the same feeling but more when I play Mass Effect. I get the great gameplay, the amazing stories, and all the while I am amazed at each new location I go to. I am not going to live long enough for us to discover other galaxy's and other life forms. So I am grateful to BioWare who allow me to experience this in a video game.

#169
uberdowzen

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Brako Shepard wrote...

Aside from Mass Effect series. What 5 games would you say the story and gameplay are both worthy of 5 out of 5?

Here's mine...

BioShock.
Rise of the Argonauts.
Viking : Battle for Asgard.
HITMAN : Blood Money.
Final Fantasy VII.


Half-Life 2
KOTOR
Dragon Age
Mass Effect 1 & 2
Crimson Skies (awesome awesome game)

#170
TwevOWNED

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Ok, they are two relatively different games.

Gameplay Wise:

ME1 is a "True" RPG, and I'll list the Pros and Cons of a "True" RPG.

+ A more invoveled leveling system.
- Can confuse newer people looking for a shooter.

+ A more "In-depth" invantory  system.
-Many items are "Copies" of each other with two different shapes, other stats, and varying colors.

+ A "Hands-On" leveling system so you can upgrade mid-level.
+Much more exploration and collectables.
-Many of these involve "Grinding" or "Roving" such as with the Mako.

+ A straight-forward "Good Guy/ Bad Guy" system, not as opauqe as ME2.
- Not as much depth as other games.

+/- Infidente ammo which leads to rather bland combat, but powers are more useful.

ME2 is a TPS/ RPG hybrid, 3/4 focusing on combat, 1/4 focusing on powers.

Pros and Cons:

+ Much more combat oriented than ME1.
- Much less power specialization.

+ Simpler leveling, invantory, and specialization.
- All of the above lead to a less RPG-like game, which defines ME in general.

+ More realistic desicion making comapred to ME1, much more options.
- Opaucity may confuse new players.

Personal preference: Scanning replaces Mako, which is your own decision to decide which is better.


So if you like "Traditional Futeristic RPG's" ME1 is better.

If you like "Third Person Shooters combined with Infamous Powers with Big Decision Making"  ME2 is for you.

Or if your like me you will except both are exeptional games made by BioWare that have thier own flaws, and have fun playing the games.Image IPB

#171
FluxDeluxe

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uberdowzen wrote...

Hi and welcome to...

The Epic Mass Effect 2 vs Mass Effect 1 Debate

I've noticed that there are a lot of threads throughout the ME forums about whether the sequel or the original game is better and the one thing I've noticed about all of them is that eventually devolve into people throwing insults at one another. I'd like to address that.

My idea is to have a proper debate, not just open a thread and let everyone spout their ideas about what they thought was better. I don't want to get the argument going quite yet though (let's do this properly), I'd like some input on how this could be organised.

I was thinking that maybe each side could have a leader elected who anyone could PM their viewpoint to and then the leader could choose the best argument (or make up an amalgamation of the best). I think that this would avoid the problems all the other argument threads have where people with lots of different viewpoints just put their thoughts out there and it just becomes a confusing mess.

Any other ideas would be great (a slightly less convuluted way of holding the debate would be fantastic). It'd be cool (but unlikely) if we could get some of the Bioware guys involved too.

Also please take a look at this link:

http://www.wikihow.c...a-Good-Argument

Finally, it'd be awesome if someone arty made a banner for the first post of the thread and for signatures. Just sayin'...


Your probably bettor off starting a group if you want to moderate an argument of this kind.

#172
STG

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Brako Shepard wrote...
Aside from Mass Effect series. What 5 games would you say the story and gameplay are both worthy of 5 out of 5?


Not sure about gameplay but Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines had amazing story.

Modifié par STG, 30 avril 2010 - 12:34 .


#173
FluxDeluxe

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uberdowzen wrote...

Brako Shepard wrote...

Aside from Mass Effect series. What 5 games would you say the story and gameplay are both worthy of 5 out of 5?

Here's mine...

BioShock.
Rise of the Argonauts.
Viking : Battle for Asgard.
HITMAN : Blood Money.
Final Fantasy VII.


Half-Life 2
KOTOR
Dragon Age
Mass Effect 1 & 2
Crimson Skies (awesome awesome game)


Planescape Torment
Baldurs Gate Series
KOTOR
System Shock 2
Deus Ex
By far and away the best story telling in computer gaming

#174
MrNose

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I found that the RPG elements which did exist in ME2 were done much better than those in ME1. ME1 had more rpg elements, but ME2's rpg elements were more polished, and I'll take polished over "more" any day of the week.

#175
Code_R

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Mass Effect 1 has a great space exploration feel to it thats missing from ME2 - landing and driving the Mako may have been dull in places but it gave the galaxy a certain feel to it: it was huge and I could explore it. ME2 is far too mission based for an RPG - I wanted to at least fly the shuttle about, the firewalker stuff is NOT what I wanted from a vehicle element. ME1 had its flaws but it felt like a better game overall and has a much stronger plot. Why all the cutscenes to show me travelling to somewhere in the same city? I want to walk there! And scanning is horrible, the Normandy is not a mining vessel, if the mission is so important why am I personally collecting minerals?

In ME2 it felt like I was always waiting for the real story to begin, the collector stuff just wasnt threatening or substantial enough - and why is paragon Shepherd working for Cerberus - surely he/she would go back to the Alliance or take them on as a Spectre and give the finger to the smoking man. The characters are not as strong either, while they were the part I most enjoyed what they did to Liara is just stupid. The music isnt as good either! Dont get me wrong they are both really good, but I would happily keep the problems the first had instead of the new ones they put in there. I need ME3 to be an epic space opera without so much arcade shooter stuff.

ME gets A+, ME2 gets A-

Modifié par Code_R, 30 avril 2010 - 01:34 .