155 réponses à ce sujet

[Loerwyn]

Noir201 wrote...

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

Except they are. They're athletes in another way. They have excellent hand-eye co-ordination, incredible reflexes and tactical skill (depending on the game/genre).
Just because they don't have your 3 years of Ninja Training on the Cloud Base of Hepsibeth the 7th Queen of Prussia & The Outlying Lands, it doesn't mean they're not atheletes.

You made my day with that

I aim to please.

[Busomjack]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

No, because reading isn't an interactive activity.
How is a chess player, as Ivandra mentions, less of an athlete than someone who can throw a javelin at an Olympic standard? The top chess players have an incredible agility, but of the mind and not of the body. They have the mental endurance to play games for hours, and the intellectual strength to beat their opponent.
e-Sports, aside from FPS gaming, is along the same lines of chess. FPS based e-Sports are all about agility and reflexes, and outwitting your opponent. You could say racing isn't a sport because they're sat on their backside for the whole race, but that's not true. The drivers have excellent endurance and reflexes, and if they didn't then they wouldn't be racing at that level.

Reading itself is an interaction as it requires the reader to actually take action to get information from the reading material as opposed to watching television where the information is fed to you.  Under your criteria, speed reading could be considered an athletic event.
Chess players are not athletes since the so called "sport" does not require any kind of speed, strength, or agility which is what defines an athlete.  I don't question their skill but they are still not athletes.

Reflexes are not the same as agility.  An athlete is someone who doesn't just have skill but has skill which is dedicated towards a physical activity of some sort.  Gaming is not a physical activity, it is a sedentary one.

First Definition from dictionary.com:

1. an athletic activity requiring skill and physical prowess or often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
Car racing is a very physical sport. Not only do you need to take the impact of crashes, but you need to withstand g-forces and fight a 3,000 pound car around a track.

Don't compare it to these so called "cyber-athletes" who think PwNing Arthas makes them athletes.

Modifié par Busomjack, 27 avril 2010 - 12:34 .

[Loerwyn]

WoW barely has any true position in cyberathletics, so please stop referencing it. You want to be looking at CSS, Unreal Tournament, Quake, Starcraft etc. WoW's fights, for the most part, are scripted, predictable and the only skill really involved is the mastery of one's class and one's tasks in the raid. Yes, the top guilds are insanely skilled, but they're skilled with their class and at adapting to the few "randomised" (although fairly scripted) events.



To use your definition to prove you wrong: "1. an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature" Keyword: OR. Cyberathletics require skill and the nature of the sport? Oh yeah, competition.

[Dethateer]

Wait, wait, wait, are you saying that the rapid registering of information is a sport, but the meticulous calculation and processing of information isn't? Also, what does agility have to do with driving a car? You need reflexes for that, not agility.

[ModerateOsprey]

So snooker, darts (some big beer drinking blokes play that!) are not sports? Chess? (already been mentioned). What about motor racing? I mean those F1 drivers just sit on their bums, and let's face it, their steering wheels look more like a gaming controller than a steering wheel.

[Busomjack]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

WoW barely has any true position in cyberathletics, so please stop referencing it. You want to be looking at CSS, Unreal Tournament, Quake, Starcraft etc. WoW's fights, for the most part, are scripted, predictable and the only skill really involved is the mastery of one's class and one's tasks in the raid. Yes, the top guilds are insanely skilled, but they're skilled with their class and at adapting to the few "randomised" (although fairly scripted) events.

To use your definition to prove you wrong: "1. an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature" Keyword: OR. Cyberathletics require skill and the nature of the sport? Oh yeah, competition.

Wow has some professional gaming divisions like SK gaming and a few others, can't remember them all off the top of my head.  
You're missing the point.  We're talking about athletics here, in order for someone to be considered an athlete their skill must be related to a physical attribute such as agility, and stregnth.  Gaming requires none of that, it is a completely sedentary activity.  The competitors in so called "cyber-sports" are not athletes and thus an "e-sport" cannot be considered a true sport.

[Busomjack]

ModerateOsprey wrote...

So snooker, darts (some big beer drinking blokes play that!) are not sports? Chess? (already been mentioned). What about motor racing? I mean those F1 drivers just sit on their bums, and let's face it, their steering wheels look more like a gaming controller than a steering wheel.

Darts is not really a sport, it's just a competitive event.  Same goes for chess.  I've already addressed motor car racing and why I believe it is a sport.

Never heard of snooker.

Modifié par Busomjack, 27 avril 2010 - 12:42 .

[Loerwyn]

You're an athlete at trolling, Busomjack.

I think you should just give up and try to keep the shreds of dignity you have. Whether you like it or not, eSports is a recognised activity and there is a hell of a lot of money in it. Their skill is in mastery of tactics, reflexes and of the mind in just the way the skill of a bodybuilder is mastery of the body. Argue it as much as you like, but cyberathletics and eSports are not going away.

[Busomjack]

For those who are confused. Here is how you tell whether or not a competitive event can be considered a sport...



If it's competitors fall under this definition...



http://www.thefreedi...ary.com/athlete



"A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts."



then yes it can be considered a sport.

[Busomjack]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

You're an athlete at trolling, Busomjack.
I think you should just give up and try to keep the shreds of dignity you have. Whether you like it or not, eSports is a recognised activity and there is a hell of a lot of money in it. Their skill is in mastery of tactics, reflexes and of the mind in just the way the skill of a bodybuilder is mastery of the body. Argue it as much as you like, but cyberathletics and eSports are not going away.

As a master of the human body myself I can respect competitive gaming as a fun event and can appreciate the entertainment value of it.
It is not a sport however and it's competitors are not athletes.   Money or no, the event is no more a legitimate sport than air hockey.

[Dethateer]

Busomjack wrote...

For those who are confused. Here is
how you tell whether or not a competitive event can be considered a
sport...

If it's competitors fall under this definition...

http://www.thefreedi...ary.com/athlete

"A
person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength,
agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or
sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts."

then
yes it can be considered a sport.

Darts requires hand-eye
coordonation. Lots of it. That qualifies as
one of those traits. Yet, according to you...

Busomjack wrote...

Darts is not really a sport, it's just a competitive event.

[Loerwyn]

Ivandra Ceruden wrote...

@Onlyshallow: stop feeding him, comrade. It just makes matters worse.
He's not gonna give up until the mighty Woo closes his topic down. Again.

Aye. No idea why I keep posting

[Noir201]

Indeed Ivandra, we need Karaoke King Woo to the rescue!!

[Busomjack]

I don't think the definition I posted said anything about hand and eye coordination.  An athlete may benefit from hand and eye coordination but there has to be a physical aspect to it as well.

If you browse the Thesarus you will not see anything about darts and certainly nothing about gaming.

[Busomjack]

If Stanley Woo does lock it down it will be because of you guys spamming it with off topic garbage.

I won't face any reprucussions because I haven't violated any rules.

[Relix28]

It's not actual "physical sport", but more of a brain sport or mental exercise, if you wish. It also depends on the player who plays it. Fot someone who aproaches the games in a very casual way just to kill some time, then it's more of a hobby or just something to kill some time. But for players who pour their heart, blood and tears into a game, it's much more than a simple hobby. Take pro-gamers for instance like the guys from MLG, or professional fighting games players like Daigo Umehara or Justin Wong, or any pro-gamer for that matter. For them it's a job. For someone it's a waste of time. For someone else it's a simple hobby. And for someone it's a lifestyle. It does not matter, if it's considered a sport or not. I think it's more of a perception thing. Like what's your defenition of playing a game.
And as for the term sport itself. Well, it's hard to associate gaming with it for obvious reasons. So I think a term like E-Sport is a more appropriate one. It gives everyone the impression that it has something competitive to do with computers/consoles and not race tracks and stadiums.

Modifié par Relix28, 27 avril 2010 - 12:59 .

[Busomjack]

Relix28 wrote...

It's not actual "physical sport", but more of a brain sport or mental exercise ,if you wish. It also depends on the player who plays it. Fot someone who aproaches the games in a very casual way just to kill some time, then it's more of a hobby or just something to kill some time. But for players who pour their heart, blood and tears into a game, it's much more than a simple hobby. Take pro-gamers for instance like the guys from MLG, or professional fighting games players like Daigo Umehara or Justin Wong, or any pro-gamer for that matter. For them it's a job. For someone it's a waste of time. For someone else it's a simple hobby. And for someone it's a lifestyle. It does not matter, if it's considered a sport or not. I think it's more of a perception tihng. Like what's your defenition of playing a game.
And as for the term sport itself. Well, it's hard to associate gaming with it for obvious reasons. So I think a term like E-Sport is a more appropriate one. It gives everyone the impression that it has something competitive to do with computers/consoles and not race tracks and stadiums.

You can call it a lifestyle, a passion, a job, or a way of life.  None of that is necessarily false.  It should not be called a sport though and it's participants should not be considered athletes, that is fallacious.

It may not matter to most people but for me being a true athlete I find it offensive. I train my body to withstand pain most would die from.  I don't have a problem with the concept of competitive gaming but what they do should not be compared to what I or any true athlete does.
An e-sport is as much of a sport as air hockey is hockey.

[Busomjack]

Ivandra Ceruden wrote...

Seriously, I keep on wondering why you're not banned yet, Busom...

Btw, is it that much fun to keep on creating topics like that? *sigh*

You're not contributing anything to this discussion.  If you have nothing on topic to add, I respectfully ask you to leave.

[ModerateOsprey]

Busomjack wrote...

ModerateOsprey wrote...

So snooker, darts (some big beer drinking blokes play that!) are not sports? Chess? (already been mentioned). What about motor racing? I mean those F1 drivers just sit on their bums, and let's face it, their steering wheels look more like a gaming controller than a steering wheel.

Darts is not really a sport, it's just a competitive event.  Same goes for chess.  I've already addressed motor car racing and why I believe it is a sport.

Never heard of snooker.

Not sure the pro darts players would agree with you! And I wouldn't like to tell 'em!

Snooker is basically fancy pool on a much larger table. Taken very seriously here in the UK.

I agree that your question can only really boil down to semantics and will rely pretty much on what term those involved in any event decide to adopt. This has implications for funding. If an event an be recognised as a sport then it is more likely to get state support.

I actually, sort of agree with you. It doesn't sit right with me thinking of chess as a sport and I think it has been adopted as a convenient label. I think we are pretty much stuck with it unless another concept can be conceived that is globally recognised. I think this would be a good idea as I think something like competitive gaming certainly should be recognised as distinct from those activities that are traditionally physical. Athletics up to Olympic level and a Call of Duty competition cannot really be compared.

As for equality and 'cheapening'. Not sure I agree with that. That is like saying one is more worthy than the other. Personally, I almost universally hate all sport. Hated PE at school with a passion. I follow F1 racing and sort of watch the tennis at Wimbledon, but my interest stops there.

I think it would be great to watch some competitive gaming on the telly. I'd watch it.

[Busomjack]

ModerateOsprey wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

ModerateOsprey wrote...

So snooker, darts (some big beer drinking blokes play that!) are not sports? Chess? (already been mentioned). What about motor racing? I mean those F1 drivers just sit on their bums, and let's face it, their steering wheels look more like a gaming controller than a steering wheel.

Darts is not really a sport, it's just a competitive event.  Same goes for chess.  I've already addressed motor car racing and why I believe it is a sport.

Never heard of snooker.

Not sure the pro darts players would agree with you! And I wouldn't like to tell 'em!

Snooker is basically fancy pool on a much larger table. Taken very seriously here in the UK.

I agree that your question can only really boil down to semantics and will rely pretty much on what term those involved in any event decide to adopt. This has implications for funding. If an event an be recognised as a sport then it is more likely to get state support.

I actually, sort of agree with you. It doesn't sit right with me thinking of chess as a sport and I think it has been adopted as a convenient label. I think we are pretty much stuck with it unless another concept can be conceived that is globally recognised. I think this would be a good idea as I think something like competitive gaming certainly should be recognised as distinct from those activities that are traditionally physical. Athletics up to Olympic level and a Call of Duty competition cannot really be compared.

As for equality and 'cheapening'. Not sure I agree with that. That is like saying one is more worthy than the other. Personally, I almost universally hate all sport. Hated PE at school with a passion. I follow F1 racing and sort of watch the tennis at Wimbledon, but my interest stops there.

I think it would be great to watch some competitive gaming on the telly. I'd watch it.

There really aren't that many semantics behind it.  The definition of athletics traces it's origins all the way back to ancient Greece and is not as vague as some make it out to be.
I don't play darts but I do have skill with throwing knives and shurikens and making effective use of them does require some strength and agility so I would categorize dart throwing as a sport before gaming.  Still, I think the jury is still out on that one.
I'm not saying one is more worthy than another.  I'm saying that they shouldn't be compared at all as in they're in an entirely seperate category.

Modifié par Busomjack, 27 avril 2010 - 01:11 .

[Relix28]

Busomjack wrote...

Relix28 wrote...

It's not actual "physical sport", but more of a brain sport or mental exercise ,if you wish. It also depends on the player who plays it. Fot someone who aproaches the games in a very casual way just to kill some time, then it's more of a hobby or just something to kill some time. But for players who pour their heart, blood and tears into a game, it's much more than a simple hobby. Take pro-gamers for instance like the guys from MLG, or professional fighting games players like Daigo Umehara or Justin Wong, or any pro-gamer for that matter. For them it's a job. For someone it's a waste of time. For someone else it's a simple hobby. And for someone it's a lifestyle. It does not matter, if it's considered a sport or not. I think it's more of a perception tihng. Like what's your defenition of playing a game.
And as for the term sport itself. Well, it's hard to associate gaming with it for obvious reasons. So I think a term like E-Sport is a more appropriate one. It gives everyone the impression that it has something competitive to do with computers/consoles and not race tracks and stadiums.

You can call it a lifestyle, a passion, a job, or a way of life.  None of that is necessarily false.  It should not be called a sport though and it's participants should not be considered athletes, that is fallacious.

It may not matter to most people but for me being a true athlete I find it offensive. I train my body to withstand pain most would die from.  I don't have a problem with the concept of competitive gaming but what they do should not be compared to what I or any true athlete does.
An e-sport is as much of a sport as air hockey is hockey.

You can compare pro-gamers with pro-athlets to some degree. They both use their skills and training to compete for whatever they compete. Some use their physical strenght and others their dexterity and mind for a means to an end. So that's why I think traditional sports should be called sports and gaming an E-sport to avoid confusion and to set some kind of standard to what is what.
Also I don't think you should be offended. I think everyone here can distinct an athlet from a gamer. It's basicly just a matter of terms from what I understand.