107 réponses à ce sujet

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...
They also said that if you killed your squadmates, you get less content.

Naturally. Less Cameos. looks good enough for me. I've never experienced Conrad's cameo, Shiala's cameo, Rana Tanoptis's cameo, Helena Blake's cameo, Wrex's cameo, "Ah, yes... Reapers" airquotes. And I am fine with that.

But I'll feel ripped off grossly, if I lose half a ME3, just because I made my "suicide mission" feel a little like a bloody business and not a girl scout picnic. And have another half trashed with remaining characters' daddy issues.

and again as someone asked, why should you be rewarded for purposely getting your team killed? I know the sucide mission was an ridicilous cakewalk  when it came to choosing people for jobs, but still, why should you get rewarded for getting your people killed? Also your solved them all in ME2, I honestly see little reason to why we even need recuitment missions in ME3. We got our dirty dozen, let's just roll with an bunch of non-Linear missions story progression type deal line in ME1 with bunch of side things.

Though to be honest, I honestly could care less if Liara or Kaiden/Ashley joined, I didn't like them, and had they been in the sucide mission, i would purposely have killed them just to show my hate. but anyways. But i would still have an save for them to surivive just because I like to play all the Arc's. But either way,  I just think it's plain silly not to have them.

Though I always liked my idea of pool of possible squadmates (let's say 16 since Samara/Monith is the same choice) and then you choose 6. Boom problem solved.

[Nozybidaj]

enormousmoonboots wrote...
Don't have the points in Persuade/Intimidate? You don't get extra dialog, you don't get extra reward. Killed someone in the first game? No side quest for them in the second game.

Sure, you miss small and optional content.  Like I said, judging by ME1 and ME2 we can safely assume the same format will be followed.  If they died in your ME2 game you'll miss out on the extra dialog or side mission.  I'm fine with that.  

BW isn't just going to leave folks without 3/4's of a squad though.  Assuming they would is just being silly.

[janeym27]

/signed.

[Khayness]

Would love to.

But we'll just get cameos anyway.

[jlb524]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Snide comments aside, in-universe, killing all/most of the squad means one of two things: Commander Shepard is a vindictive idiot (derp you're not Liara so I'll kill you), or incompetent (loyalty? Is that like a new gun or something?). Neither is in character for Commander Shepard--you can manipulate a lot of Shepard's character, but not that s/he is so butthurt about their waifu not being on the ship they're willing to risk the whole mission.

No, people died because my Shepard was 'distracted' for the mission since she didn't get to put her past business behind her like everyone else.  Wasn't this the whole point of the loyalty missions?  To make sure people weren't 'distracted' so they didn't mess up.  Well, Shepard was distracted and she messed up...made some poor leadership decisions.

[I99I Dragoon]

Khayness wrote...

Would love to.
But we'll just get cameos anyway.

Well, hopefully it won't be the case. I mean, since Bioware "pushed the envelope" with ME2 by messing with the RPG archetype, and they love story, ya never know.

Just being optimistic....lol

[Nozybidaj]

Depending on your Shep's background (Ruthless/Sole Survivor) it can be very in character to have a recurring theme of watching your whole team die all around you.

[I99I Dragoon]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Depending on your Shep's background (Ruthless/Sole Survivor) it can be very in character to have a recurring theme of watching your whole team die all around you.

Maybe for those who haventplayed ME2 and boot up 3, maybe your background determines your default members from 2.....but merely speculation...

[syllogi]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

I99I Dragoon wrote...

Like I said, how much sense could it make if you had a whole new squad, since your ME2 squad is the best of the best...

A lot since all but two of them are dead.

So why should you be rewarded for being bad at video games?

It's extremely easy to make sure no one dies in the suicide mission, at this point I'd wager that more people are letting teammates die to make their game more dramatic, or to kill off party members they don't like, and don't want to see again.  Why should these people be penalized for utilizing a game mechanic?

[Collider]

TeenZombie wrote...
It's extremely easy to make sure no one dies in the suicide mission, at this point I'd wager that more people are letting teammates die to make their game more dramatic, or to kill off party members they don't like, and don't want to see again.  Why should these people be penalized for utilizing a game mechanic?

For the fact that it's so easy and they're intentionally getting people killed. If you are intentionally getting people killed, one should not complain about the consequences involved. Making new squad mates just for x squad mate dying is a waste of resources.

[Zulu_DFA]

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...
They also said that if you killed your squadmates, you get less content.

Naturally. Less Cameos. looks good enough for me. I've never experienced Conrad's cameo, Shiala's cameo, Rana Tanoptis's cameo, Helena Blake's cameo, Wrex's cameo, "Ah, yes... Reapers" airquotes. And I am fine with that.

But I'll feel ripped off grossly, if I lose half a ME3, just because I made my "suicide mission" feel a little like a bloody business and not a girl scout picnic. And have another half trashed with remaining characters' daddy issues.

and again as someone asked, why should you be rewarded for purposely getting your team killed?

Because it's real f*cking hard!..

Wait a minute... I didn't say anyone should be rewarded for that... I just say the "less content" thing shouldn't be a penalty.

Anyway, not having Tali in ME3 is quite a handsome reward!  

It's more about ME3 needs all available resources (time, disk space and money) to be committed to the main plot resolution. Former squadmates are a must too, but they are secondary. And they already have little to give to the main plot, so new squadmates will fit in better. Therefore, ME2 SMs = cameos, ME3 SMs = Liara, Virmire Survivor and 4-5 new.

[Zulu_DFA]

jlb524 wrote...

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Snide comments aside, in-universe, killing all/most of the squad means one of two things: Commander Shepard is a vindictive idiot (derp you're not Liara so I'll kill you), or incompetent (loyalty? Is that like a new gun or something?). Neither is in character for Commander Shepard--you can manipulate a lot of Shepard's character, but not that s/he is so butthurt about their waifu not being on the ship they're willing to risk the whole mission.

No, people died because my Shepard was 'distracted' for the mission since she didn't get to put her past business behind her like everyone else.  Wasn't this the whole point of the loyalty missions?  To make sure people weren't 'distracted' so they didn't mess up.  Well, Shepard was distracted and she messed up...made some poor leadership decisions.

I like this argument. Why does it smell... blue? I wonder...

Collider wrote...

 If you are intentionally getting people killed, one should not complain about the consequences involved.

For "consequences" there are the really BIG CHOICES. And some Jackie girl or Thanie boy dying makes no consequence for the Galaxy.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 27 avril 2010 - 09:03 .

[jlb524]

There will be 'less content', whatever that means ,but they're not going to make the game so hard if person X or person Y dies that you must go back and replay ME2 just to make sure those people don't die. They won't do that. They have to realistically accommodate a player with every end ME2 scenario...a full squad, half of a squad, only 2 remaining, etc.

[I99I Dragoon]

I see what you're saying, Zulu, but it could be formatted so that this "less content" thing could merely be dialog, so it's not like if you have half you're team die, you won't have lost real "meat" content, like missions, but merely having your team survive means more variety and choice when you boot up ME3.

[jlb524]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Snide comments aside, in-universe, killing all/most of the squad means one of two things: Commander Shepard is a vindictive idiot (derp you're not Liara so I'll kill you), or incompetent (loyalty? Is that like a new gun or something?). Neither is in character for Commander Shepard--you can manipulate a lot of Shepard's character, but not that s/he is so butthurt about their waifu not being on the ship they're willing to risk the whole mission.

No, people died because my Shepard was 'distracted' for the mission since she didn't get to put her past business behind her like everyone else.  Wasn't this the whole point of the loyalty missions?  To make sure people weren't 'distracted' so they didn't mess up.  Well, Shepard was distracted and she messed up...made some poor leadership decisions.

I like this argument. Why does it smell... blue? I wonder...

Well, my Shepard was 'distracted' with worry that her dear 'blue' girlfriend would get herself killed threatening the SB and that she'd never see her again.  It's a natural thing to worry about, given the circumstances.

[Sky Shadowing]

This topic has been debated to death, and as has been pointed out, it makes no sense to write out every character.



To be particular, Tali could be exiled and in love with your character (if that's true, where the hell else would she rather be?), Garrus has no family, friends, and is possibly in love with your character. There is no excuse to write these two, at least out, and there are similar reasons for other characters not getting written out (Miranda openly resigns from Cerberus, Jacob indicates that he's not going anywhere, etc) Now, these chars are "love interests", so naturally, if THEY come back, EVERY love interest, by default, has to come back just to make the game "fair" to the LI junkies. That's Ashley/Kaidan, Liara, Garrus, Tali, Jack, Miranda, Jacob, and Thane. That's 9 squadmates, a good number.



Now, for those above who are dead, sub them out for new squadmates. For non-import saves (not calling them canon as everybody has a different "canon") have it be Tali, Garrus, Miranda, Jacob, A/K, Liara, and 3 "new" squadmates. Now, if the "confrontation" between ME1 and ME2 LIs takes place, subtract the one you don't choose.



Basically, if Bioware makes one LI recruitable, by default, they all have to be recruitable.

[Zulu_DFA]

jlb524 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Snide comments aside, in-universe, killing all/most of the squad means one of two things: Commander Shepard is a vindictive idiot (derp you're not Liara so I'll kill you), or incompetent (loyalty? Is that like a new gun or something?). Neither is in character for Commander Shepard--you can manipulate a lot of Shepard's character, but not that s/he is so butthurt about their waifu not being on the ship they're willing to risk the whole mission.

No, people died because my Shepard was 'distracted' for the mission since she didn't get to put her past business behind her like everyone else.  Wasn't this the whole point of the loyalty missions?  To make sure people weren't 'distracted' so they didn't mess up.  Well, Shepard was distracted and she messed up...made some poor leadership decisions.

I like this argument. Why does it smell... blue? I wonder...

Well, my Shepard was 'distracted' with worry that her dear 'blue' girlfriend would get herself killed threatening the SB and that she'd never see her again.  It's a natural thing to worry about, given the circumstances.

 indeed... Unloyal Shepard? Sounds intruiguing...

[syllogi]

Collider wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...
It's extremely easy to make sure no one dies in the suicide mission, at this point I'd wager that more people are letting teammates die to make their game more dramatic, or to kill off party members they don't like, and don't want to see again.  Why should these people be penalized for utilizing a game mechanic?

For the fact that it's so easy and they're intentionally getting people killed. If you are intentionally getting people killed, one should not complain about the consequences involved. Making new squad mates just for x squad mate dying is a waste of resources.

Believe me, I will nerdrage if they come up with a whole new cast of characters, but I'm looking at it from the devs point of view.  They introduced a mostly new cast of characters in the second game, and people embraced the new, for the most part.  What's to stop them from "rebooting" the series again, if there were no consequences in terms of game sales for doing it once?  They apparently hold making each game a "standalone" product as a major concern.  One easy way for them to do this is to create another brand new squad.

[jlb524]

Sky Shadowing wrote...

Basically, if Bioware makes one LI recruitable, by default, they all have to be recruitable.

Why?  They can die like all the rest.  Some are even easier to kill than non-LIs like Samara or Mordin.

[Nozybidaj]

Sky Shadowing wrote...

To be particular, Tali could be exiled and in love with your character (if that's true, where the hell else would she rather be?),

Or she could have remained a member of the fleet, totally hate Shepard's guts, and then take a rocket to the face.  Now resolve that in a way that both you and I can play ME3.

[jlb524]

Zulu_DFA wrote...


 indeed... Unloyal Shepard? Sounds intruiguing...

Unloyal Shepard!  Ha!  I never thought of it that way.

Shepard is not loyal to her/his own mission.  Does not have little red-ring around feet.

[Sky Shadowing]

jlb524 wrote...

Sky Shadowing wrote...

Basically, if Bioware makes one LI recruitable, by default, they all have to be recruitable.

Why?  They can die like all the rest.  Some are even easier to kill than non-LIs like Samara or Mordin.

Fairness. Let me put it this way, if Tali were recruitable as a full-fledged companion with multiple dialouge arcts depending on LI status, and Liara were not, would you be happy about it? Bioware knows that their hardcore fans would not be very happy if their "romance" got shafted while somebody else did not.

If you got your LI KILLED, that's your fault and nothing that Bioware can do to fix it- as it should be.

[I99I Dragoon]

Sky Shadowing wrote...

This topic has been debated to death, and as has been pointed out, it makes no sense to write out every character.

To be particular, Tali could be exiled and in love with your character (if that's true, where the hell else would she rather be?), Garrus has no family, friends, and is possibly in love with your character. There is no excuse to write these two, at least out, and there are similar reasons for other characters not getting written out (Miranda openly resigns from Cerberus, Jacob indicates that he's not going anywhere, etc) Now, these chars are "love interests", so naturally, if THEY come back, EVERY love interest, by default, has to come back just to make the game "fair" to the LI junkies. That's Ashley/Kaidan, Liara, Garrus, Tali, Jack, Miranda, Jacob, and Thane. That's 9 squadmates, a good number.

Now, for those above who are dead, sub them out for new squadmates. For non-import saves (not calling them canon as everybody has a different "canon") have it be Tali, Garrus, Miranda, Jacob, A/K, Liara, and 3 "new" squadmates. Now, if the "confrontation" between ME1 and ME2 LIs takes place, subtract the one you don't choose.

Basically, if Bioware makes one LI recruitable, by default, they all have to be recruitable.

That'll work, but if thats taken care of, wouldn't it be easier to write out the other squaddies as well? Putting them in or having them out if they died doesn't seem to be difficult.....keyword *seem*

[Sky Shadowing]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Sky Shadowing wrote...

To be particular, Tali could be exiled and in love with your character (if that's true, where the hell else would she rather be?),

Or she could have remained a member of the fleet, totally hate Shepard's guts, and then take a rocket to the face.  Now resolve that in a way that both you and I can play ME3.

I can't, which is as it should be. You got Tali killed, it's your playthrough, your decision.

Don't blame me when the Quarians absolutely hate your guts for destroying their culture and killing the most famous of all Quarians.

[Nozybidaj]

Sky Shadowing wrote...
Fairness. Let me put it this way, if Tali were recruitable as a full-fledged companion with multiple dialouge arcts depending on LI status, and Liara were not, would you be happy about it?

No but they did it in once already anyway.  Fairness isn't going to play any part in this.  It's going to come down to "what is the easiest way to handle all this".