66 réponses à ce sujet

[Tirigon]

Aisynia wrote...

phaonica wrote...

Putting everyone you come across in Awakening through the Joining was quite jarring for me, at first. It's like "hey, stranger, you are an effective murderer, how about directing some of that potential at the darkspawn." Exactly how am I as a player supposed to take the duties of the Grey Wardens seriously when nearly none of my party members do?

According to Riordan, that's pretty common recruiting strategy, so it wasn't jarring to me at all.

This.


To quote from a dialogue about Sten: "Does it not worry you that he killed 2 families with bare hands?" "Just means he´s good at what he´s doing".

[RecklezzRogue]

Staying out of the fray here, I would just say that playing on nightmare the combat did have some tough moments...

ps - I will never look at Anders the same again ;-)

Modifié par RecklezzRogue, 28 avril 2010 - 11:50 .

[phaonica]

Tirigon wrote...

Aisynia wrote...

phaonica wrote...

Putting everyone you come across in Awakening through the Joining was quite jarring for me, at first. It's like "hey, stranger, you are an effective murderer, how about directing some of that potential at the darkspawn." Exactly how am I as a player supposed to take the duties of the Grey Wardens seriously when nearly none of my party members do?

According to Riordan, that's pretty common recruiting strategy, so it wasn't jarring to me at all.

This.


To quote from a dialogue about Sten: "Does it not worry you that he killed 2 families with bare hands?" "Just means he´s good at what he´s doing".

I'll concede that I probably should not have been jarred by it. Perhaps I had hoped the Wardens would be *more* than that once we Commanders got to them. oh well

On a slightly different note, I also don't understand why this is perfectly acceptable behavior for one person (oh, so he killed 2 families with his bare hands, big deal, i'm sure there is a perfectly logical explanation), but completely unacceptable for another (he killed the Warden Commander and allowed some people to be tortured, no logical explanation will suffice, must execute!).

[Aisynia]

phaonica wrote...

Have you ever read The Song of Ice and Fire books?

No I haven't read them, but you are right that organization sounds very similar.

it's the same with the Wardens; after the 4th blight, humanity was convinced that the darkspawn were forever defeated. Therefore, the Wardens were considered somewhat obsolete, and as a result, recruitment fell. Now that it's clear that the Darkspawn are still around, the number of recruits should increase

Or if the next Blight doesn't come around for another however-many-centuries, we'll start calling this the last Blight and be right back where we started.
What do the Wardens actually do when there is no Blight, anyway? Kill straggler darkspawn on the surface? Hang out and fight darkspawn in the Deep Roads. 
I say we take this fight to the Black City. That would be epic.

Assuming you kill the Architect, it's strongly implied in the Orlesian ending that a 6th blight is beginning. The 5th blight was abnormal anyways, as it was started accidentally.

[Tirigon]

phaonica wrote...


On a slightly different note, I also don't understand why this is perfectly acceptable behavior for one person (oh, so he killed 2 families with his bare hands, big deal, i'm sure there is a perfectly logical explanation), but completely unacceptable for another (he killed the Warden Commander and allowed some people to be tortured, no logical explanation will suffice, must execute!).

I assume you are referring to Loghain or Howe here, right?

Difference:
1.) Torture is worse than murder, and can never be excused. Killing people is sometimes the right thing; torture is never.
2.) As a warden I care a lot more for other wardens than for useless peasants who would have been killed by the darkspawn a month later anyways.
3.) Sten is a good and honorous warrior who never tried to harm you and accepted his punishment; Loghain is a treacherous ass who tries to kill you all the time and plans to have you executed in the Landsmeet, about 10 minutes before you can decide whether or not to recruit him.

[Xandurpein]

Aisynia wrote...

phaonica wrote...

Putting everyone you come across in Awakening through the Joining was quite jarring for me, at first. It's like "hey, stranger, you are an effective murderer, how about directing some of that potential at the darkspawn." Exactly how am I as a player supposed to take the duties of the Grey Wardens seriously when nearly none of my party members do?

According to Riordan, that's pretty common recruiting strategy, so it wasn't jarring to me at all.

Also note that you are not forced to make anyone a Grey Warden, except Mhairi. If you find any of the potential companions unworthy, for whatever reason you feel is important, you can just refuse them.

[Aisynia]

You can end up with no companions, right?



I mean, I haven't tried.. but the decision ultimately rests with the player.

[ell46]

Have to agree with everything Rhys Cordelle said and I vowed I wouldn't play it again, but I have and second time around was more depressing than the first, so it's back to DAO for me.



Didn't even get a chance to conscript the last two members as what's his name was banging on about going to war and I still had side quests I wanted to finish.

[Bl1nder]

Tirigon wrote...

phaonica wrote...


On a slightly different note, I also don't understand why this is perfectly acceptable behavior for one person (oh, so he killed 2 families with his bare hands, big deal, i'm sure there is a perfectly logical explanation), but completely unacceptable for another (he killed the Warden Commander and allowed some people to be tortured, no logical explanation will suffice, must execute!).

I assume you are referring to Loghain or Howe here, right?

Difference:
1.) Torture is worse than murder, and can never be excused. Killing people is sometimes the right thing; torture is never.
2.) As a warden I care a lot more for other wardens than for useless peasants who would have been killed by the darkspawn a month later anyways.
3.) Sten is a good and honorous warrior who never tried to harm you and accepted his punishment; Loghain is a treacherous ass who tries to kill you all the time and plans to have you executed in the Landsmeet, about 10 minutes before you can decide whether or not to recruit him.

I can't agree. Oh sure I didnt like Loghain as such but I couldnt help but respect the man, he went against everything and everyone to do what he believed was right.
As  for Awakening, I cant help but regard it as the budget version of Dragon Age. Mind you the game still has more content than 90% of full priced games out there, but Bioware set very high standarts with Origins and its natural for people to expect them to stick if not surpass them.
And on a final note, I really liked Anders, I see him as Alistair's little brother, not as funny but still funny!

[Tirigon]

Bl1nder wrote...


I can't agree. Oh sure I didnt like Loghain as such but I couldnt help but respect the man, he went against everything and everyone to do what he believed was right.
As  for Awakening, I cant help but regard it as the budget version of Dragon Age. Mind you the game still has more content than 90% of full priced games out there, but Bioware set very high standarts with Origins and its natural for people to expect them to stick if not surpass them.
And on a final note, I really liked Anders, I see him as Alistair's little brother, not as funny but still funny!

It is certainly honorable to fight for your beliefs. But if these beliefs are the opposite of mine I´ll still not ally with the other one.

[Bl1nder]

Tirigon wrote...

Bl1nder wrote...


I can't agree. Oh sure I didnt like Loghain as such but I couldnt help but respect the man, he went against everything and everyone to do what he believed was right.
As  for Awakening, I cant help but regard it as the budget version of Dragon Age. Mind you the game still has more content than 90% of full priced games out there, but Bioware set very high standarts with Origins and its natural for people to expect them to stick if not surpass them.
And on a final note, I really liked Anders, I see him as Alistair's little brother, not as funny but still funny!

It is certainly honorable to fight for your beliefs. But if these beliefs are the opposite of mine I´ll still not ally with the other one.

It comes down to personal opinion I believe, although on reflection Alistair's obstinate insistence on executing him might have played a part in it. I get a good figher and a meat shield for the Archdemon yet the bastard kept insisting on killing him, I ended up turing Alistair in to a drunk, ah well

[Beerfish]

Some of the points were very valid others not at all and some were pretty surprising. I agree about the companions. I got the impression that BioWare was taking the hard choices bit a little too far. Of the companions I like Mharri who as pointed out was a goner very soon and Justice/Kristoff. I like Ohgren in principle but he was a bit over the top in his behaviour. I just didn't like mage at all, I didn't like Howe and I especially didn't like the elf mage.



Now I did really like the level design of this game, nicely done environs, pretty good quests overall and the companions were fairly well written (I just disliked them.)



Overall it was worth getting but for the next game I hope BioWare makes the majority of the companions at least likeable (they can still have their quirks or have habits you don't like but make it more believable that I would want them in the 1st place.)

[Aisynia]

Beerfish wrote...

Some of the points were very valid others not at all and some were pretty surprising. I agree about the companions. I got the impression that BioWare was taking the hard choices bit a little too far. Of the companions I like Mharri who as pointed out was a goner very soon and Justice/Kristoff. I like Ohgren in principle but he was a bit over the top in his behaviour. I just didn't like mage at all, I didn't like Howe and I especially didn't like the elf mage.

Now I did really like the level design of this game, nicely done environs, pretty good quests overall and the companions were fairly well written (I just disliked them.)

Overall it was worth getting but for the next game I hope BioWare makes the majority of the companions at least likeable (they can still have their quirks or have habits you don't like but make it more believable that I would want them in the 1st place.)

Nathaniel and Anders are AWESOME. Anders is adorable and Nathaniel is such a gentleman <3<3<3

Also, I like Velanna (though I hated her at first).

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

I got a kick out of fighting in my loin cloth with my fists and owning a oger first part. I didn't mind the beginning but the opening to the beginning was weak. The DLC not importing dispointed me a ton. Then the joining at first oghrens thing was funny but then i found it stepped away from the originial lore of the ritual being sinister and serious. I wasn't suprised that Mihri died.I think anders was the best new charater there i enjoyed his humor. Nathanel hes ok a bit of a dick but no matter how evil my father was if the order that killed him was in my home ill get revenge to.



The Over all story was good i liked the general idea of talking darkspawn. Also the new gear was nice but its not nessary silver and dragonbone works just as good. Although being a Demi god gets old after 2 runs. The ending was somthing to be desired. But i did like the whole governing thing where i decide the fate of my subjects. That was a neat to have. The vigilance sword and armor was really good and looked sexy to bad its glitched on ps3 so scrap that it looked like wardens keep items... Im not disspointed about the whole expansion but because of EA and there money hungry bs this was rushed and thus didn't live up to the hipe and i think all concel owners deserve a patch for DLC..... I play origins more but Awakening isn't that horrible. The biggest thing for me is no alistar, Zevran or leliana i would love to see leliana become a grey warden with me. That would of made me forgive all the flaws but owell not the worst thing i've spent 40bucks on and plus i just got alot of extra money all the time.

[Aisynia]

I don't think the DLC stuff not importing is intentional, but if you are on the PC, there are fixes for it.

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

Aisynia wrote...

I don't think the DLC stuff not importing is intentional, but if you are on the PC, there are fixes for it.

Ya i know my ostagar stuff transfered im prolly gona get a pc anyway concels like the ps3 get the shaft when it comes to RPGS and thats all i wana play now days.

[Beerfish]

Aisynia wrote...

Nathaniel and Anders are AWESOME. Anders is adorable and Nathaniel is such a gentleman <3<3<3

Also, I like Velanna (though I hated her at first).

Perhaps if you have them for a time they work into that but I simply would not gleefully take a guy in my group who had come to kill me and was the son of the rat that killed my family.  Especially when he starts making excuses for his father.  Anders perhaps is more palatable to the female crowd but he was just not very likeable to me at all.  He had zero concience or feelings to the templars who were killed when you 1st meet him and you have no idea if he indeed helped them along.

Velanna was dumb as a bag of rocks.

[SurelyForth]

Beerfish wrote...
Anders perhaps is more palatable to the female crowd but he was just not very likeable to me at all.  He had zero concience or feelings to the templars who were killed when you 1st meet him and you have no idea if he indeed helped them along.

I can understand why he didn't feel much for their deaths, they'd probably given him hell from the moment he was captured.

And, if he had any hand in killing them, I honestly doubt he'd offer to stick around, much less come back to help fight if you choose to let him go (which is exactly what happens).

[Aisynia]

Beerfish wrote...

Aisynia wrote...

Nathaniel and Anders are AWESOME. Anders is adorable and Nathaniel is such a gentleman <3<3<3

Also, I like Velanna (though I hated her at first).

Perhaps if you have them for a time they work into that but I simply would not gleefully take a guy in my group who had come to kill me and was the son of the rat that killed my family.  Especially when he starts making excuses for his father.  Anders perhaps is more palatable to the female crowd but he was just not very likeable to me at all.  He had zero concience or feelings to the templars who were killed when you 1st meet him and you have no idea if he indeed helped them along.

Velanna was dumb as a bag of rocks.

You can set him straight about his father very, very quickly. You can reunite him with his sister within minutes.

That said, he can say something like "Do you often recruit people who are trying to kill you?" or something like that, and you can reply, "Some of my best friends have wanted me dead" LOL

[Aisynia]

SurelyForth wrote...

Beerfish wrote...
Anders perhaps is more palatable to the female crowd but he was just not very likeable to me at all.  He had zero concience or feelings to the templars who were killed when you 1st meet him and you have no idea if he indeed helped them along.

I can understand why he didn't feel much for their deaths, they'd probably given him hell from the moment he was captured.

And, if he had any hand in killing them, I honestly doubt he'd offer to stick around, much less come back to help fight if you choose to let him go (which is exactly what happens).

My mages don't exactly shed tears over the prospect of dead templars, that's for sure.

They are an army specifically designed to hunt you down just for being born a certain way! 

[Tirigon]

SurelyForth wrote...


I can understand why he didn't feel much for their deaths, they'd probably given him hell from the moment he was captured.

And, if he had any hand in killing them, I honestly doubt he'd offer to stick around, much less come back to help fight if you choose to let him go (which is exactly what happens).

I hope he killed the templars, because that is what I had done in his case, and what, in fact, I DO whenever the game gives me the chance. Killing templars is fun.

[Beerfish]

Yeah, well that is the reason I usually killed Zevran in most of my playthroughs of Origins. If I play characters who can relate to some of these companions I will indeed take them but most of the time I just can't force myself to bend my characters values or his/her smarts to take on potential big liabilities to the mission.

[Tirigon]

Beerfish wrote...

Yeah, well that is the reason I usually killed Zevran in most of my playthroughs of Origins. If I play characters who can relate to some of these companions I will indeed take them but most of the time I just can't force myself to bend my characters values or his/her smarts to take on potential big liabilities to the mission.

Yea I know that. Only exception was Zevran in my first playthrough: I planned to interrogate him and then to kill him, but the way he talked made me accept him and my PC ended up in love with him:wub:

[phaonica]

I fall into the horrible trap of recruiting party members against my better judgement because it's a video game and I *want to see what happens*. I don't normally play through a game six or seven times. I have two mains, though, so when I next play through Awakening, I'll certainly send some of my potential-recruits packing.

[Foolsfolly]

phaonica wrote...

Putting everyone you come across in Awakening through the Joining was quite jarring for me, at first. It's like "hey, stranger, you are an effective murderer, how about directing some of that potential at the darkspawn." Exactly how am I as a player supposed to take the duties of the Grey Wardens seriously when nearly none of my party members do?

We had a companion who respected and revered the Wardens! 

....the plot made sure to get rid of that idealist and give us people who don't care or actively hate the Wardens and us.

Beerfish wrote...

Some of the points were very valid
others not at all and some were pretty surprising. I agree about the
companions. I got the impression that BioWare was taking the hard
choices bit a little too far. Of the companions I like Mharri who as
pointed out was a goner very soon and Justice/Kristoff. I like Ohgren
in principle but he was a bit over the top in his behaviour. I just
didn't like mage at all, I didn't like Howe and I especially didn't like
the elf mage.

Now I did really like the level design of this
game, nicely done environs, pretty good quests overall and the
companions were fairly well written (I just disliked them.)

Overall
it was worth getting but for the next game I hope BioWare makes the
majority of the companions at least likeable (they can still have their
quirks or have habits you don't like but make it more believable that I
would want them in the 1st place.)

This must be said. Awakenings had VASTLY superior level design. There were moments and maps that blew me away because Origins had such barebones enviroments (the Korcari Wilds were by far the best and most varied map in Origins).

However, everything else was a step backwards. The story had potential but lacked a strong villain. The Mother is a symptom and BioWare tried too hard to make the Architect a morally ambigious character instead of a villain you really want to punch in the head. The characters were either annoying, copies of Origins characters, or Justice.

The thing is also bugged like crazy. Getting Sigrun's loyalty means you must completely avoid two quests until afterward (which means no one got her loyalty until they went online after beating and thought 'WTH guys?') and getting the elf mage's loyalty is all up to chance.

However, being the Arl was fun. Getting to make decisions for the country and being the one responsible for them while trying to fight and investigate the Darkspawn? That was great. I wish they had us judge more things and affect more instead of adding so many run and fetch quests.