361 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Urdnot_Write wrote...

You're seeing what you want to see.

Jacob is in the game to ALLOW FemSheps to be more sexually aggressive in their relationships. If it weren't there I can guarantee there would be a post similar to your lamenting the fact that women have to be the passive partner in their relationships. You're also forgetting that Jacob is a romance OPTION. Garrus and Thane are available as well.

Also, Kelly is a romance for both genders.

Not to completely dismiss your point, they are obviously going to cater more to their largest audience. That's just good business. They could tone it down a little, sure. Several people have already supported combat suits and fewer gratuitous ass-shots, and I'm with you there. Seriously, though, there's pointing out the excesses and then scouring a game looking for female oppression. You're definitely doing the latter.

Kelly is not a romance.

Actually if she is its the most distrubing one I've found. She gets captured, nearly turned to goo and the first thing she wants to do is some badly animated dance wearing an asari dancer outfit? 


Also Kelly being a romance for both genders only inforces the OP point. After all F/F is "hawt" and M/M is icky!!!!

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 avril 2010 - 11:33 .

[Collider]

cruc1al wrote...

Collider wrote...

cruc1al wrote...

Collider wrote...

Or you could just not do them, scyphoza.

How are you supposed to know not to do them before you've tried them and seen they're corny?

The internet and word of mouth. And precedence.

That's hardly reasonable.. You don't want to spoil the romances for yourself if they turn out to be worth doing after all.

"So, Bob, what did you think of the romances in *insert Bioware title here*?"
"They were corny as hell."
"Hmm, not surprised."
Nothing spoiled here.

Plus if someone is the of the opinion that video game romances always corny and lame, then there is little reason to believe that the next Bioware iteration is going to be different.

[cruc1al]

Collider wrote...

cruc1al wrote...

Collider wrote...

cruc1al wrote...

Collider wrote...

Or you could just not do them, scyphoza.

How are you supposed to know not to do them before you've tried them and seen they're corny?

The internet and word of mouth. And precedence.

That's hardly reasonable.. You don't want to spoil the romances for yourself if they turn out to be worth doing after all.

"So, Bob, what did you think of the romances in *insert Bioware title here*?"
"They were corny as hell."
"Hmm, not surprised."
Nothing spoiled here.

Plus if someone is the of the opinion that video game romances always corny and lame, then there is little reason to believe that the next Bioware iteration is going to be different.

Yes and is there a particular reason you should believe it when bob says they're corny that you'd think they're corny too? In order to be sure, you want details, which involves either spoiling it or doing it yourself.

[TheBestClass]

I hate that most purses only try to appeal to women. Total nonsense.

[Ryzaki]

TheBestclass wrote...

I hate that most purses only try to appeal to women. Total nonsense.

Get a manbag. At least purses don't have nearly naked men stiched on them. <_<

[Collider]

cruc1al wrote...
Yes and is there a particular reason you should believe it when bob says they're corny that you'd think they're corny too? In order to be sure, you want details, which involves either spoiling it or doing it yourself.

Maybe Bob typically shares your opinion about romances in games. Maybe Bob and most other people who have played the game think it's corny.

Or maybe you could read a review from a gaming website you generally agree with. It's very possible to critique the story and romances of games without spoiling them. That's basically what video game reviews for the most part try to do - critique the game without spoiling it. You can say things like "the romances in this game move too fast," or "the two people in the relationship never felt like they actually had a connection," or "the relationship came out of nowhere," or "there were some pretty cheesy, badly written lines." None of those things spoil anything.

[Ecael]

Title: Respect women and you'll get more sex

Please change the provocative thread title. You're making it sound like women barter or sell their sexuality in exchange for attention and that men are the knuckle-dragging consumers who only serve to take advantage of it.

I think the whole premise of the thread is offensive to both genders.

[Arawn-Loki]

Kryyptehk wrote...

The thing that makes me angry is that they could make a custom body for Tali, Miranda, Jack and most important female character, but FemShep looks like a dude with boobs and a girl's head. I'm not saying I want to wear Miranda's latex armor or Jack's belt, but that armor does not look realistic. Those shoulder pads alone are ridiculous. Shepard is a soldier, not a knight. The only people I see wearing that heavy of armor is bomb squad.

And I agree that Bioware is disrespectful. It kind of seems like they don't really want women playing their game. They want you to play Sheploo, not be gay, not be a woman and be renegade. To be honest, I don't really know why they gave the option to be a woman if they were going to make her FemJohn Shepard.

ME1 was better about treating FemShep like a real gender, instead of a female version of John. And I actually prefer the second game, except for this one issue.

Dragon Age is better about that stuff. But its development was also more complicated.

With Mass Effect, we all have to take things we don't like. I imagined my Shepard as a literate and relatively informed person. Paragon Shep doesn't always live up to that ideal.

Modifié par Arawn-Loki, 27 avril 2010 - 11:43 .

[BatarianBob]

Respect women and you'll get more sex

Women always say this, but reality seems to disagree.

Respect women and you'll get stuck in "just friends" territory.  At least a little ****-ish behavior is a must.

Anyway, Miranda needs the catsuit and gratuitous butt shots.  Otherwise players would have to judge her by her personality.  That wouldn't work out too well.

Modifié par Taranatar9, 27 avril 2010 - 11:46 .

[Collider]

[Ziggy]

Urdnot_Write wrote...

You're seeing what you want to see.

Jacob is in the game to ALLOW FemSheps to be more sexually aggressive in their relationships. If it weren't there I can guarantee there would be a post similar to your lamenting the fact that women have to be the passive partner in their relationships. You're also forgetting that Jacob is a romance OPTION. Garrus and Thane are available as well.

I obviously know Jacob's romance was an option (and one i didn't take). My point was that the terrible dialogue which they thought women would like is a good illustration of their attitude. Read my post.

Urdnot_Write wrote...

Not to completely dismiss your point, they are obviously going to cater more to their largest audience. That's just good business. They could tone it down a little, sure. Several people have already supported combat suits and fewer gratuitous ass-shots, and I'm with you there. Seriously, though, there's pointing out the excesses and then scouring a game looking for female oppression. You're definitely doing the latter.

It's as in your face as Miranda's ass. I just put down the obvious. I'm sure I could find plenty more examples if I tried. 

[Whailor]

Well... *shrug* *yawn*



Like Mordin said, this "chest pounding" is boring. You don't like it, don't buy and play it, that's the most clear signal you could give as a paying customer. I see no reason to allow same gender romance options everywhere. I don't like that myself. I don't oppose gays or lesbians but it doesn't mean that this should be stuck into everything and everywhere either. And I don't support the screams "Waah there's the male char portrayed as the publicity char, we demand female char too!" Why on earth do some people deliberately nitpick every picture, every word just to find a reason to complain, I don't get it. Maybe most like that there's the male Shep pic and not female, who's to say they shouldn't get it and you should get yours? I am OK with male Shep pic there, who's to say you're more "right" then I am, for example?



As for char movement and such then that seems to be simply a lazy work from Bioware. It seems that they decided that it's easier to "copy" the animations rather then make new ones. Male char animations are also quite bad and from weird to buggy (but of course you did not notice any of it while pounding your chest, you just saw your side of the things). Miranda's outfit - in some situations it's cute, but in many situations it's lacking. I don't understand personally this - seemingly again - lazy way of sneaking past modeling the armors for most of other team mates. But of course, some again only see issues with female chars but not with male chars. Selective views, it seems. In one case demand justice but in other case ignore it. Dialogue is sloppy in many places (not the VA no, but the text itself) but of course, let's just nitpick on those which differ from your point of view.



Point is, if you scream for justice then scream it for every issue needing it, not just the ones you favor. And for stereotyping the community like you and some others here did, well, funny thing with that - can't stereotype your side but can stereotype the other side? That's why I don't care or support these points of view or arguments (at least not as long as they're done from one soapbox only), they're always aimed for own benefit while trying to insult any other view.

[TheBestClass]

Ryzaki wrote...

TheBestclass wrote...

I hate that most purses only try to appeal to women. Total nonsense.

Get a manbag. At least purses don't have nearly naked men stiched on them. <_<

I got your manbag right here. No but seriously, the OP makes some valid points but you do have to remember that most people who play games (or at least these kinds of games) are younger men. They are generalizing their audience but it's no different than the way Hollywood does it. Also, it's not like the original ME was so open-minded. Remember the first time you see Matriarch Benezia? They certainly didn't pan the camera up from her great personality. 

[Collider]

They failed with Jacob, but look at the Thane romance. He's very respectable to FemShep.

[Arawn-Loki]

Em23 wrote...

Urdnot_Write wrote...

You're seeing what you want to see.

Jacob is in the game to ALLOW FemSheps to be more sexually aggressive in their relationships. If it weren't there I can guarantee there would be a post similar to your lamenting the fact that women have to be the passive partner in their relationships. You're also forgetting that Jacob is a romance OPTION. Garrus and Thane are available as well.

I obviously know Jacob's romance was an option (and one i didn't take). My point was that the terrible dialogue which they thought women would like is a good illustration of their attitude. Read my post.

Urdnot_Write wrote...

Not to completely dismiss your point, they are obviously going to cater more to their largest audience. That's just good business. They could tone it down a little, sure. Several people have already supported combat suits and fewer gratuitous ass-shots, and I'm with you there. Seriously, though, there's pointing out the excesses and then scouring a game looking for female oppression. You're definitely doing the latter.

It's as in your face as Miranda's ass. I just put down the obvious. I'm sure I could find plenty more examples if I tried. 

The men wear tight clothes too, which some women players might get a kick out of. Its kind of going for the classical Greek sculpting theory that you want your warriors and persons of interest to show off their sexiness as well as their prowess.

Modifié par Arawn-Loki, 27 avril 2010 - 11:46 .

[Xenon]

Taranatar9 wrote...

Respect women and you'll get more sex

Women always say this, but reality seems to disagree.

Respect women and you'll get stuck in "just friends" territory.  At least a little ****hole-ish behavior is a must.

Quoted for truth. The three most appealing traits for women in men are narcissism, recklessness and deceitfulness. Source.

[Urdnot_Write]

Em23 wrote...
I obviously know Jacob's romance was an option (and one i didn't take). My point was that the terrible dialogue which they thought women would like is a good illustration of their attitude. Read my post.

You're trying to get yourself angry. Think about it this way: Some women like Jacob's romance. Now, before you come back spouting venom about how it demeans women, think about that statement. You don't like it but some women do. Who are you to deny them that romance? You have two perfectly non-objectifying romances in Garrus and Thane. Enjoy the OPTIONAL content you enjoy and leave the OPTIONAL content you don't. Seems simply enough, yes?

Now, if Jacob was the ONLY romance you might have a point. He's not.

Essentially, you're complaining that they gave FemShep options.

Modifié par Urdnot_Write, 27 avril 2010 - 11:49 .

[Ryzaki]

TheBestclass wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

TheBestclass wrote...

I hate that most purses only try to appeal to women. Total nonsense.

Get a manbag. At least purses don't have nearly naked men stiched on them. <_<

I got your manbag right here. No but seriously, the OP makes some valid points but you do have to remember that most people who play games (or at least these kinds of games) are younger men. They are generalizing their audience but it's no different than the way Hollywood does it. Also, it's not like the original ME was so open-minded. Remember the first time you see Matriarch Benezia? They certainly didn't pan the camera up from her great personality. 

Hey I'm all for explotation of both genders. Just Me2 leaned far to heavily on the pubsecent adolescent boy side. <_<

[Ziggy]

Taranatar9 wrote...

Respect women and you'll get more sex

Women always say this, but reality seems to disagree.

My point there is that Bioware will never get away with including nudity or naked sex in a game when it's done like this. It can only be tasteless and they will get flamed. You want more sex and nudity, you have to grow up first.

[Active_Download]

Yeah, I couldn't help but to notice how Cerberus really lets Miranda wh*re around like that as said by the Eclipse Merc Leader on her mission. Jack's outfit = no, although I liked the unlockable one after her loyalty mission. Samara as a Justicar wouldn't she have wore some heavier armor or something, so she isn't so exposed.

[Icinix]

Em23 wrote...

Taranatar9 wrote...

Respect women and you'll get more sex

Women always say this, but reality seems to disagree.

My point there is that Bioware will never get away with including nudity or naked sex in a game when it's done like this. It can only be tasteless and they will get flamed. You want more sex and nudity, you have to grow up first.

Like in the first Mass Effect when the sex scenes and romance were really tastefully done, then they had to defend themselves on FOX?

I do agree with you actually.  I think the whole thing reeks of rampant male nerd drooling material.

Modifié par Icinix, 28 avril 2010 - 12:00 .

[Ryzaki]

scyphozoa wrote...

Collider wrote...
Plus if someone is the of the opinion that video game romances always corny and lame, then there is little reason to believe that the next Bioware iteration is going to be different.

That is exactly my point, every Bioware game I've played, I have willingly engaged in all romances (replaying numerous times to view all content). My personal belief is that the context of a video game, at least at the pace and scale of all current and prior Bioware games, are not sufficient to create a believable romantic dynamic.

let me give you an example, Dragon Age feels like one of the longest "in-game" time passages of any BW game. Meaning, to me, the entire experience of DAO feels like it occurs over the span of 1-3 months. This is entirely subjective and just my personal feeling. 

Alternatively, both ME1 and ME2 feel like they unfold over the span of only a couple of weeks. 

In both games, I feel like the pacing of character development and the passage of time is insufficient to warrant the romantic build up that ultimately climaxes with genuine fairytale love by the end of the game. I am not trying to be technical about lore, i am not one for RPing, but when characters I just met 10 hours ago start flirting over aggressively, or start revealing personal secrets, it feels like it is too early in that character's development for that narrative to be believeable.

to add insult to injury, not only does the pacing seem too rushed to develop real relationships, the dialogue of most (all) love interests in all BW games feels very watered down, unrealistic and forced. IMO, video games in general fail to capture the dynamic of flirting and romance.  

i'm not trying to be a wet blanket either, i know a lot of people love the romances, but i would love to see 1 modern BW game where there are no romances. take all the resources that go into crafting romances and put them into world fidelity, main story arcs, npcs and dialogue.

Doesn't DA last a period of 2 years? 

[Arawn-Loki]

Ryzaki wrote...

scyphozoa wrote...

Collider wrote...
Plus if someone is the of the opinion that video game romances always corny and lame, then there is little reason to believe that the next Bioware iteration is going to be different.

That is exactly my point, every Bioware game I've played, I have willingly engaged in all romances (replaying numerous times to view all content). My personal belief is that the context of a video game, at least at the pace and scale of all current and prior Bioware games, are not sufficient to create a believable romantic dynamic.

let me give you an example, Dragon Age feels like one of the longest "in-game" time passages of any BW game. Meaning, to me, the entire experience of DAO feels like it occurs over the span of 1-3 months. This is entirely subjective and just my personal feeling. 

Alternatively, both ME1 and ME2 feel like they unfold over the span of only a couple of weeks. 

In both games, I feel like the pacing of character development and the passage of time is insufficient to warrant the romantic build up that ultimately climaxes with genuine fairytale love by the end of the game. I am not trying to be technical about lore, i am not one for RPing, but when characters I just met 10 hours ago start flirting over aggressively, or start revealing personal secrets, it feels like it is too early in that character's development for that narrative to be believeable.

to add insult to injury, not only does the pacing seem too rushed to develop real relationships, the dialogue of most (all) love interests in all BW games feels very watered down, unrealistic and forced. IMO, video games in general fail to capture the dynamic of flirting and romance.  

i'm not trying to be a wet blanket either, i know a lot of people love the romances, but i would love to see 1 modern BW game where there are no romances. take all the resources that go into crafting romances and put them into world fidelity, main story arcs, npcs and dialogue.

Doesn't DA last a period of 2 years? 

At least a year, because Wynn remarks on it.

My experience is that Mass Effect feels like it occurs over a long period of time if you do all the side missions.

Modifié par Arawn-Loki, 28 avril 2010 - 12:00 .

[Siansonea]

I don't mind Samara's outfit. The asari seem to have less prudish ideas about what to cover up and what to leave exposed. I can see how even the warrior monks dress provocatively. It's a cultural thing. Those asari are xenophiles, they want to interact with other species, and it makes sense that playing up their attractiveness would facilitate that to some extent. And Miranda's outfit doesn't show that much skin. I'd wear something like it if I could just lose that last 5 pounds.

It's just a shame that the boy players get all the eye candy. Jacob had potential, and if he never spoke or looked at anybody, he'd be perfect. But once he starts talking, the facial animations just go haywire and it spoils the effect. He is also very 'pose-y' when he's standing around. He never really looks relaxed. Just like Miranda, he always seems to be showing off his body in some way. I don't find that very alluring, to be honest.

Let it be known that even though the OPs thread title is supposed to be somewhat sarcastic, it is actually true. If you guys want sex, you have to give us women something we want just as much you want sex: respect. Cultivate a respectful attitude toward women (and men, for that matter) and you will be amazed at how much your life improves in all areas. Focusing only on yourself and your own desires and needs will pretty much guarantee that you'll have plenty of time alone. Of course, just because you are respectful doesn't automatically mean we'll sleep with you, but it does improve your chances.