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Female Characters in Games

Débuté par Ziggy , avril 27 2010 10:57

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#51
BatarianBob
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 12:08

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Em23 wrote...

Taranatar9 wrote...


Respect women and you'll get more sex


Women always say this, but reality seems to disagree.


My point there is that Bioware will never get away with including nudity or naked sex in a game when it's done like this. It can only be tasteless and they will get flamed. You want more sex and nudity, you have to grow up first.


Except as we saw in '07, they can't get away with it regardless.

#52
Guest_Guest12345_*
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 12:09

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Arawn-Loki wrote...
At least a year, because Wynn remarks on it.

My experience is that Mass Effect feels like it occurs over a long period of time if you do all the side missions.


thats interesting, i don't think i've ever heard that. it makes sense though as DAO unfolds in what feels like chapters (origin, ostagarr, worldmap, landsmeet)

#53
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 12:14

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Em23 wrote...

Mass effect 2 is all about sales. Bioware has pulled all the stops, ignored all the minority groups, and created a game that will appeal to the undeniable heart of the gaming community: men who don't want to grow up.

And to do that, they completely screwed over women and homosexual gamers.
Can you really blame them for that? I think you can.
There is already a thread arguing for the latter. This thread is about the former.

Not only has femshep been virtually ignored from day one

  • No publicity
  • No effort put into the default character
  • Shepard's movements are very masculine
but now with ME2, female gamers have as well.
ME2's representation of women is straight out of an immature boy's fantasy:
  • Female characters wear ridiculously formfitting and revealing outfits and high heels (even in combat)
  • Camera angles shamelessly feature Miranda's ass so prominently and frequently that it has it's own dedicated following
  • Strippers in bars, and Kelly who wants nothing more than to dress up and dance for you personally
And what do women get?
I think Jacob's romance dialogue is the most telling of all: Bioware not only thinks men want to see women as sexually available objects, they actually think women like it: "But the priiiiiiiiiiize".

How wrong they are.

To be clear, I am not trying to take sex or sexiness out of games. I like sex and nudity as much as the next person. But not like this. There is no nudity in ME2 because in this context it would practically be porn. Bioware needs to take a more respectful, real and mature approach to sex and romance and, if they do, I think you'll find you'll see more, not less.


 

I somewhat sympathize with you.
I think you have to make the first step op.

Seriously, get the market share and then we'll see.  The video gaming industry is a business.

Edit:  less abrasive

Modifié par JohnnyDollar, 28 avril 2010 - 12:48 .

#54
Ryzaki
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 12:19

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At least females are 75% of the casual gamers market (AKA the gateway drug *laughs evilly*) so soon more and more females will be in the non casual market. (Of course its crap like the camera focusing on Miranda's assets that drive a good deal away (and breast physics) so yeah...)



Oh well. At least I can count of Squareenix for my equal opportunity fanservice.

#55
cachx
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 12:19

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Respect women and you'll get more sex

Damn, I was totally misled into yet another whine thread... :pinched:

Female characters wear ridiculously formfitting and revealing outfits
and high heels (even in combat)


Well, that's the sci-fi's version of the chainmail bikinis of pretty much all fantasy, anywhere... on any medium, it's almost a staple of the genre by now.

I do agree in that the default femshep is not getting the respect she deserves...

#56
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 12:27

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Ryzaki wrote...
At least females are 75% of the casual gamers market 

Source citation please?:innocent:

#57
Joisan
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 12:29

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SP One Nineteen wrote...

Yeah, its all about the demographics. I fall into their targeted group and all i can say is i hope bioware can make a game that doesn't completely stereotype women and men (in the context that all we 17 year olds care about is Miranda's ass).

FemShep just might as well be a guy with that one chromosomal disorder that makes a guy develop boobs. Otherwise her attitude depicts that of a completely over-masculinified female soldier.

Btw, its Liara's ass we really care about kthxbai.


I'm actually writing a paper on this for my Gender and Women's Studies class right now.

And what chromosomal disorder are you talking about?  I've never heard of such a thing.

#58
Mars Nova
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 12:30

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You know who you sound like, OP? You sound like that woman who was on Fox News slamming ME1 for "objectifying women" without ever having played the game.

#59
Ryzaki
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 12:30

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JohnnyDollar wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
At least females are 75% of the casual gamers market 

Source citation please?:innocent:


http://www.redherring.com/Home/17935

I was off by around 5 percent but still. :P

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Casual_game

for the links in the reference table.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 28 avril 2010 - 12:31 .

#60
Ryzaki
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 12:31

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Mars Nova wrote...

You know who you sound like, OP? You sound like that woman who was on Fox News slamming ME1 for "objectifying women" without ever having played the game.


Except the OP does have the game. >_>

#61
Siansonea
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 12:36

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Joisan wrote...

SP One Nineteen wrote...

Yeah, its all about the demographics. I fall into their targeted group and all i can say is i hope bioware can make a game that doesn't completely stereotype women and men (in the context that all we 17 year olds care about is Miranda's ass).

FemShep just might as well be a guy with that one chromosomal disorder that makes a guy develop boobs. Otherwise her attitude depicts that of a completely over-masculinified female soldier.

Btw, its Liara's ass we really care about kthxbai.


I'm actually writing a paper on this for my Gender and Women's Studies class right now.

And what chromosomal disorder are you talking about?  I've never heard of such a thing.


I believe the disorder in question is androgen insensitivity syndrome.

http://en.wikipedia....tivity_syndrome

#62
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 12:37

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Ryzaki wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
At least females are 75% of the casual gamers market 

Source citation please?:innocent:

http://www.redherring.com/Home/17935

I was off by around 5 percent but still. :P

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Casual_game

for the links in the reference table.

With due respect, that article is 4 yrs old with dubious secondary sources.  I don't intend to argue female/male market share with you BTW, but this article can't be taken seriously IMO.

#63
Ariq007
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 12:40

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Accusing Bioware or any of their games for being sexist, racist, misogynistic, homophobic, or immature or whatever else is like biting the hand that feeds you. These guys are one of the more progressive and thoughtful game-makers out there. They are not your enemy.



You really are seeing what you want to see here. Anyone who thinks that Jacob's "...the prize" line is demeaning or objectifying really needs to get over themselves.



Also, stop saying that 'showing respect will get you laid.' It's a complete over-simplification of relationships in general, and predisposes that the bottom-line in any relationship for a man is sex. THAT is demeaning.

#64
Active_Download
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 12:40

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Ahhh, the wonders of the internet, it allows to you seem 100 times smarter than you actually are by outsourcing your mind to wikipedia and other educational websites.



Yeah, never thought of it like that, would make sense for asari warrior monks to be distracting.

#65
AngstOverlord
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 12:40

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For the love of...



I'm just happy there's an option to play a female character at all. While the basic male Shepard is publicized keep in mind that games are still on the whole developed by and for other men. At least ME isn't as blatantly shameless as that spy game (Alpha Protocol?) where the developers seemed really smug about allowing the player's male character able to bag all of the notable female characters. Even if there are ass shots and notable cleavage at least ME is slightly more progressive for allowing a character of either gender. It's notable that there are any romance options for the female player character at all- it could have been cut out entirely.



Female Shepard's walking animation is most likely due to a lack of time/effort in adding a secondary set for casual outfits. It works okay for wearing armor but she looks very awkward without it. Maybe she's got phantom armor syndrome.



The romance options are just fluff though it would be nice to have the spectrum broadened, as it were. Most likely same-sex relations were nixed partly for time reasons in the first game but the press fiasco is the reason for them not cropping up in ME2. It's likely responsible for them being toned down as well. DO YOU WANT YOUR DAUGHTER DATING SPACE LIZARDS?! Footage at 11!



Regardless, lighten up. Some of the costumes are less than ideal but there are worse out there. At least it's not like Culdcept- the PS2 version allowed players to select male or female characters though errors popped up from time to time. The 360 version had a singular waify boy. Also, pants for women seemed to be outlawed. Things can always be worse. We could still be in the era of Custer's Revenge.

#66
Ryzaki
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 12:41

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JohnnyDollar wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
At least females are 75% of the casual gamers market 

Source citation please?:innocent:

http://www.redherring.com/Home/17935

I was off by around 5 percent but still. :P

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Casual_game

for the links in the reference table.

With due respect, that article is 4 yrs old with dubious secondary sources.  I don't intend to argue female/male market share with you BTW, but this article can't be taken seriously IMO.


Try the wikipedia one.

And yes I heard that stastic long ago but you really think the amount of females would have plummetted? 

Edit: NM apparently wikipedia is 3 years old. :bandit:

Modifié par Ryzaki, 28 avril 2010 - 12:42 .

#67
Mars Nova
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 12:45

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Ryzaki wrote...
Except the OP does have the game. >_>


Could have fooled me. 

Modifié par Mars Nova, 28 avril 2010 - 12:50 .

#68
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 12:45

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The game isn't perfect by any means. I also understand somewhat (I'm a guy so, you know) girl gamers wanting more attention. If I was a girl gamer, I am sure that I would identify a lot more with the OP. It's good that there is a FemShep in the game you know? That is better than a male only protagonist. Still though, I don't fault some of the girl gamers for wanting more attention.



It is still a business after all, and it has to be in the realm of sales that is the driving force I assume.

#69
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Posté 28 avril 2010 - 12:46

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Hmmm. Well, Em23, your subject title here does you no favors. But it was meant to grab attention and like so many woman who wear form-fitting outfits and then **** about being viewed as sexual objects...but I digress, because I agree with you.



-Woman get aliens to shag, the men get curvaceous nymphs. Point taken.



-There is very little exploitation in this game when compared to others. The devs no doubt take pride in Miranda's ass. It probably took many man-hours to make it look right. They should be allowed to show it off a little.



-I too would like to see more minorities and homosexual characters in the game, but we are still a long way off from that as a culture. All we can do is keep pushing for it.



-I personally like the strippers. I am amazed at the excellent job they did animating them, as well as the fidelity of their anatomy.



-And remember, this game is packed with strong, archetypal woman. Realistic woman - not bimbo's with guns. Bioware deserves credit for that.

#70
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 12:47

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Ryzaki wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
At least females are 75% of the casual gamers market 

Source citation please?:innocent:

http://www.redherring.com/Home/17935

I was off by around 5 percent but still. :P

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Casual_game

for the links in the reference table.

With due respect, that article is 4 yrs old with dubious secondary sources.  I don't intend to argue female/male market share with you BTW, but this article can't be taken seriously IMO.


Try the wikipedia one.

And yes I heard that stastic long ago but you really think the amount of females would have plummetted? 

Edit: NM apparently wikipedia is 3 years old. :bandit:

It's ok, no big deal.  I know there are a lot girl gamers out there.  I would like to see some real numbers out of curiosity myself.  A very broad analysis with charts and such, but I don't know of any recent ones.

#71
Ryzaki
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 12:48

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JohnnyDollar wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
At least females are 75% of the casual gamers market 

Source citation please?:innocent:

http://www.redherring.com/Home/17935

I was off by around 5 percent but still. :P

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Casual_game

for the links in the reference table.

With due respect, that article is 4 yrs old with dubious secondary sources.  I don't intend to argue female/male market share with you BTW, but this article can't be taken seriously IMO.


Try the wikipedia one.

And yes I heard that stastic long ago but you really think the amount of females would have plummetted? 

Edit: NM apparently wikipedia is 3 years old. :bandit:

It's ok, no big deal.  I know there are a lot girl gamers out there.  I would like to see some real numbers out of curiosity myself.  A very broad analysis with charts and such, but I don't know of any recent ones.


Probably will have to wait until the next gen consoles come out.

Which is when exactly? *confused*

#72
Chaos-fusion
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 12:50

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Have to agree witht the OP. But, we do at least get 3 romance options, I'm sure it would be much easier for them to just drop that.

ME1 was alot better in this respect I think, but Bioware are still far ahead compared to other developers in terms of equality. (the default Shep may be a white guy, with short dark hair and a bad attitude, (Sound familiar?...) but at least with ME we don't have to play as him)

As for how many girls play games? I don't know any other than myself in person.. :?

Modifié par Chaos-fusion, 28 avril 2010 - 12:51 .

#73
Eskimo9000
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 12:53

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But the Priiiiiize

#74
Joisan
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 12:54

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Chaos-fusion wrote...
ME1 was alot better in this respect I think, but Bioware are still far ahead compared to other developers in terms of equality.
As for how many girls play games? I don't know any other than myself in person.. :?


I know one other girl gamer in person.

And you're right about Bioware being one of the most progressive developers out there.  This is another point I make in my paper I'm working on (god, I love it when I can manage to work my favorite games and developer into a paper)

#75
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 12:57

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slimgrin wrote...

Hmmm. Well, Em23, your subject title here does you no favors. But it was meant to grab attention and like so many woman who wear form-fitting outfits and then **** about being viewed as sexual objects...but I digress, because I agree with you.

-Woman get aliens to shag, the men get curvaceous nymphs. Point taken.

-There is very little exploitation in this game when compared to others. The devs no doubt take pride in Miranda's ass. It probably took many man-hours to make it look right. They should be allowed to show it off a little.

-I too would like to see more minorities and homosexual characters in the game, but we are still a long way off from that as a culture. All we can do is keep pushing for it.

-I personally like the strippers. I am amazed at the excellent job they did animating them, as well as the fidelity of their anatomy.

-And remember, this game is packed with strong, archetypal woman. Realistic woman - not bimbo's with guns. Bioware deserves credit for that.

For the record, I didn't care for Miranda's ass. :pinched: The only character that I find attractive, is not romancable. :OI do understand that the women need some more eye candy though.  I also sympathize with "ventrale star's" (hope I spelled that right) needing of male strippers.:bandit:

Modifié par JohnnyDollar, 28 avril 2010 - 12:58 .

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