361 réponses à ce sujet

[Looper128]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Lopper128 wrote...



whats up with all the bashing on jacob.. I mean ok hes only after sex. But thanks to him we got one of the best ME jokes of all times! I mean is there anyone here that can watch his romance scene without at least giggle a little?

I can see this derailing the thread. Seriously, there are about 500 threads covering your question about Jacob on the boards.

It was ment as a statement not a question.

[smudboy]

Em23 wrote...
Mass effect 2 is all about sales. Bioware has pulled all the stops, ignored all the minority groups, and created a game that will appeal to the undeniable heart of the gaming community: men who don't want to grow up.

And to do that, they completely screwed over women and homosexual gamers.
Can you really blame them for that? I think you can.

Blame them for...making money?  Sure.  I blame BioWare for creating a product that appeals to the masses.  Huh?  Then why did it sell less than it's prequel?  Guess they didn't do a good enough job?

ME1
ME2

There is already a thread arguing for the latter. This thread is about the former.

Not only has femshep been virtually ignored from day one

• No publicity
• No effort put into the default character
• Shepard's movements are very masculine

but now with ME2, female gamers have as well.
ME2's representation of women is straight out of an immature boy's fantasy:

It's a marketing thing.  Iconic Shepard happens to be male.  So you don't like the marketing blitz?  Yet bought the game anyway.
-Exactly what kind of publicity would be more feminine for you?
-What kind of effort would be put into the default character?  There is no default character based on sex.
-Shepard's movements are "masculine" because they're marines.  Female marines jog just as masculine as male marines.  They also walk with a limp.  Do we want a...model runway strut when in casual clothes?  Do we want bra-less breasts jumping about?  Do you want FemShep to be some kind of diva?  What exactly do you want?

Hell I'm still pissed off the canon story of Kotor 2 made The Exile a female.  Which is interesting, because in that game, there was a much better story romance in being a male Exile than female.  But that wasn't the point of the story.  Romances in ME2 aren't even considered subplots.

• Female characters wear ridiculously formfitting and revealing outfits and high heels (even in combat)
• Camera angles shamelessly feature Miranda's ass so prominently and frequently that it has it's own dedicated following
• Strippers in bars, and Kelly who wants nothing more than to dress up and dance for you personally

-Praise Jesus.  Pretty funny when in combat situations, though.
-That was the point.
-Strippers in nightclubs?  Forsooth!  What's up with Gentleman's Clubs?  We should get some Lady Clubs, if they...actually existed somewhere.  if Kelly wants to dance for no apparent reason then to dance, well, hey, that's like the plot, so why not?  She's a bisexual people loving counselor.

And what do women get?
I think Jacob's romance dialogue is the most telling of all: Bioware not only thinks men want to see women as sexually available objects, they actually think women like it: "But the priiiiiiiiiiize".

Okay so the real argument is because Kelly dances for both a male or female Shepard, that is unappealing to the heterosexual female audience.  Alright.  I can buy that.  (So, don't romance Kelly?)

I think in an interview, the designers (who are predominately male) had to go ask women what they found attractive.  They settled on Thane.  Women tend to like mushy things over tall dark and handsome buff guys, I guess.  Oh wait that'd be Jacob.  (So, don't romance him?)

How wrong they are.

To be clear, I am not trying to take sex or sexiness out of games. I like sex and nudity as much as the next person. But not like this. There is no nudity in ME2 because in this context it would practically be porn. Bioware needs to take a more respectful, real and mature approach to sex and romance and, if they do, I think you'll find you'll see more, not less.
 

No, nudity would be nudity, which wasn't even in ME1, unless you consider that side boob.

Sorry, does your post even have a point?  What exactly do you want?

I'd argue, sure, the romance stories aren't very romantic, or at times very personal, and there are some huge problems with the FemShep ones.  Do I think they could be better?  Hell yes.  But I'd rather they make the actual main plot better than cater to a sex who doesn't even know what they actually want from the opposite sex.  Much like your post.

Modifié par smudboy, 28 avril 2010 - 02:38 .

[EvilIguana966]

On the subject of femShep's animations, I'm pretty sure both genders use the same skeleton and thus the same animations. I know this was the case in Dragon Age. As the male is the default choice, the animations are all designed for his model and thus will seem a bit off to the close observer when used by the female model. The alternative is to do completely separate animations for the female model, but that is a truly massive amount of extra work. This game has a truly staggering amount of custom animations for the main character, and Bioware obviously didn't feel that doubling the amount of work they did in that area was going to pay off.

[Gavinthelocust]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Lopper128 wrote...

whats up with all the bashing on jacob.. I mean ok hes only after sex. But thanks to him we got one of the best ME jokes of all times! I mean is there anyone here that can watch his romance scene without at least giggle a little?

I can see this derailing the thread.  Seriously, there are about 500 threads covering your question about Jacob on the boards.

And there is about 500 threads covering how ME is unfair to women while ignoring homosexuals alltogether. People whine about the female romances expect Jacob to come up. Lay off because if you don't like the post ignore it so it won't be noticed instead of striking out and bringing the attention of others to that post, derailing the thread

[Zulu_DFA]

gmartin40 wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
I smell homophobophobia.

What is that, fear of fearing homosexuals?

It's actually spelled homophobia.

It's actually spelled homophobophobia.

It's a sort of mental state when a person is phobiс of ardent heterosexuals.

gmartin40 wrote...

I smell hate crime.

Join the cops. You'll win a medal pretty quick.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 28 avril 2010 - 02:46 .

[enormousmoonboots]

Collider wrote...

cruc1al wrote...

Collider wrote...

Or you could just not do them, scyphoza.

How are you supposed to know not to do them before you've tried them and seen they're corny?

The internet and word of mouth. And precedence.

Actually, part of the problem is that the romaceable characters really don't have much else to them aside from their romance. Thane is really the only one, and that's partly because he's got to be the Drell Codex Infodump. You're a guy and want to bro out with Garrus? Too bad, you get one conversation. Try again when you have a vagina. More about that here.

Bioware may be one of the more progressive companies out there, but that's no reason to give them a pass when they get skeevy--you'll never get quality if you don't ask for it. ME2 is clearly biased to a male player more than ME1, and I don't just mean in the realm of ass shots (though those are certainly significant). For example, Shiala and Gianna both flirt with a male Shepard. For Femshep, Shiala still flirts, Gianna's flirt lines are just removed. Total copy-pasting, no unique interactions happen, the male gets the 'exclusive' interaction.

The only female-exclusive line I can think of is the one where the batarian calls her a stripper, which is...hardly something that appeals to most people. Sure, I'll buy the explanation that it's supposed to illustrate what big jerks those mean ol' batarians are (they're so mean they're sexist against women of other species! That makes sense, right?), but the fact that it's the only female-exclusive line has unpleasant implications (Femshep is just like Manshep, except more like a stripper coz she's a woman, lol amirite?).

The animations from Manshep are just copy-pasted--and yeah, I know they look awkward on him too, and it's not the 'masculine' walk I have a problem with, it's the sloppiness. Femshep hovers, she clips through things, she interacts with objects incorrectly...it's just laziness, and it's telling that more laziness is evident in the female path.

Modifié par enormousmoonboots, 28 avril 2010 - 02:45 .

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

Ecael wrote...

Title: Respect women and you'll get more sex

Please change the provocative thread title. You're making it sound like women barter or sell their sexuality in exchange for attention and that men are the knuckle-dragging consumers who only serve to take advantage of it.

I think the whole premise of the thread is offensive to both genders.

No, leave it like it is.  It's delightfully self-contradictory.

[Ziggy]

JohnnyDollar wrote...



@Hattie

Could you elaborate on your post? What would you suggest as being more respectful in order for nudity and sex to be accepted?

Just on this point. I've wondered why there are so many great books and movies that have sex and nudity but games get flamed for going anywhere near there. Now I think I know why and I actually agree with it.

People say "it's rated M for mature, so there should be". But it is not mature and nudity in this context would be more like porn than a love scene. That is what people object to. Not sex and nudity. People automatically associate games with juvenile stuff like in ME2 (and much worse games), as demonstrated by the outburst over ME1 by people who hadn't even played the game. They backed off once they saw it was tastefully done.

That's what i mean by the title.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Wow. Just wow. Bioware should leave the Mass Effect series as it is, and not turn it into some sort of feminist or homosexual sensitive bullcrap.



I want my aliens hot and scantily dressed! I want my Shepard to be able to smack reporters and drink himself under the table. I want Jacob to talk about the priiize and the ability to hi-five Garrus after his "reach and flexibility" comment. I don't want a damn "sensitivity" seminar on the Normandy, or crew-members placed to meet some sort of quota. I don't want Shepard to break down and start crying on Joker's shoulder.



Now I am going to punch that reporter in the face, imagine it is you people, and when I come back I expect this discussion to be over.

[Looper128]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Gavinthelocust wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Lopper128 wrote...



whats up with all the bashing on jacob.. I mean ok hes only after sex. But thanks to him we got one of the best ME jokes of all times! I mean is there anyone here that can watch his romance scene without at least giggle a little?

I can see this derailing the thread. Seriously, there are about 500 threads covering your question about Jacob on the boards.

And there is about 500 threads covering how ME is unfair to women while ignoring homosexuals alltogether. People whine about the female romances expect Jacob to come up. Lay off because if you don't like the post ignore it so it won't be noticed instead of striking out and bringing the attention of others to that post, derailing the thread

I was joking ok? Forgot to insert (/humor) under my post.

Oh I'm sorry I dident catch that.



Anyway my point is yes the female choices sucks especially with jacob but at least we got some good laughs out of it =)

[shnizzler93]

Em23 wrote...

Mass effect 2 is all about sales. Bioware has pulled all the stops, ignored all the minority groups, and created a game that will appeal to the undeniable heart of the gaming community: men who don't want to grow up.

And to do that, they completely screwed over women and homosexual gamers.
Can you really blame them for that? I think you can.
There is already a thread arguing for the latter. This thread is about the former.

Not only has femshep been virtually ignored from day one

• No publicity
• No effort put into the default character
• Shepard's movements are very masculine

but now with ME2, female gamers have as well.
ME2's representation of women is straight out of an immature boy's fantasy:

• Female characters wear ridiculously formfitting and revealing outfits and high heels (even in combat)
• Camera angles shamelessly feature Miranda's ass so prominently and frequently that it has it's own dedicated following
• Strippers in bars, and Kelly who wants nothing more than to dress up and dance for you personally

And what do women get?
I think Jacob's romance dialogue is the most telling of all: Bioware not only thinks men want to see women as sexually available objects, they actually think women like it: "But the priiiiiiiiiiize".

How wrong they are.

To be clear, I am not trying to take sex or sexiness out of games. I like sex and nudity as much as the next person. But not like this. There is no nudity in ME2 because in this context it would practically be porn. Bioware needs to take a more respectful, real and mature approach to sex and romance and, if they do, I think you'll find you'll see more, not less.


 

Hmm...i'll bite. to quote Nostradamoose, "Trolling in a troll thread is like wetting black pants. You still get a warm feeling, yet no one else notices."

I don't feel like trying to counter your arguments, because you or someone else will follow with a rebuttal that I also don't feel like countering, but..... 

Bioware did make a game that is more catered towards the stereotypical gamer demographic, and while it may have backfired (it isn't exactly lighting up the NPD charts anymore), it still is a great game to a lot, but obviously not all, people. They have improved many things for the game, but they also took a few steps backwards in other areas. Ultimately, no matter what ANY (videogame) company tries to do, there will be some people that will find fault with the product. Furthermore, as much as some may try to deny it, the main reason why any company currently exists is to make money. Pleasing the consumer, while may be a very close runner-up, it's just that, a secondary goal.

And i know someone on this thread will find something wrong with my post, but opinions are opinions, and this is the internet.

[thatguy212]

So is the topic name trying to say that the bioware staff will get laid more if they respect woman?

[Gavinthelocust]

ReconTeam wrote...

Wow. Just wow. Bioware should leave the Mass Effect series as it is, and not turn it into some sort of feminist or homosexual sensitive bullcrap.

I want my aliens hot and scantily dressed! I want my Shepard to be able to smack reporters and drink himself under the table. I want Jacob to talk about the priiize and the ability to hi-five Garrus after his "reach and flexibility" comment. I don't want a damn "sensitivity" seminar on the Normandy, or crew-members placed to meet some sort of quota. I don't want Shepard to break down and start crying on Joker's shoulder.

Now I am going to punch that reporter in the face, imagine it is you people, and when I come back I expect this discussion to be over.

God damn it I agree............mostly

EDIT: I hate you wall of code, why must you come in when I least expect it?















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Modifié par Gavinthelocust, 28 avril 2010 - 02:51 .

[Ecael]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

Ecael wrote...

Title: Respect women and you'll get more sex

Please change the provocative thread title. You're making it sound like women barter or sell their sexuality in exchange for attention and that men are the knuckle-dragging consumers who only serve to take advantage of it.

I think the whole premise of the thread is offensive to both genders.

No, leave it like it is. It's delightfully self-contradictory.

True. I withdraw my complaint.

EDIT: Gavin, how do you always manage to ruin the thread like that?

Modifié par Ecael, 28 avril 2010 - 02:50 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

slimgrin wrote...
I hear rumbling in the distance...

They come with flaming rants ready. But this is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die!
Bring me my flameshield and sword!

[enormousmoonboots]

ReconTeam wrote...

Wow. Just wow. Bioware should leave the Mass Effect series as it is, and not turn it into some sort of feminist or homosexual sensitive bullcrap.

I want my aliens hot and scantily dressed! I want my Shepard to be able to smack reporters and drink himself under the table. I want Jacob to talk about the priiize and the ability to hi-five Garrus after his "reach and flexibility" comment. I don't want a damn "sensitivity" seminar on the Normandy, or crew-members placed to meet some sort of quota. I don't want Shepard to break down and start crying on Joker's shoulder.

Now I am going to punch that reporter in the face, imagine it is you people, and when I come back I expect this discussion to be over.

Butthurt straight guy detected.

It's so hard to be the default and have 95% of games cater to you, isn't it?

[Inquisitor Recon]

Even the wall of text has joined me in my glorious fight to keep Mass Effect badass. Who would dare stand against us?!