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Spectre Hypocrisy

Débuté par Guest_Elithranduil_* , avril 28 2010 04:30

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#1
Guest_Elithranduil_*
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 04:30

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Spectres have one primary goal: preserve galactic stability by any means
necessary. They are above the law and will do whatever it takes to
complete their mission.


Spectres act in any way they see fit, either with careful diplomacy or
ruthless force, being officially above any law.


The Council were even more wary that Shepard was working with Cerberus,
considering it treason.


Why should it matter who Shepard works with as long as he gets the job done? What's the point of being above the law with unlimited jurisdiction if you can be taken down with a charge of treason? It's not like he went rogue like Saren. He came to the Council and saw fit to fill them in.

Why should he be intimidated by the threat of prosecution for treason?

ONE GOAL: PRESERVE GALACTIC STABILITY

BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY!

Cerberus is that means.

PS: I wish our unique role as a Spectre was expanded upon in this game. Having something as significant as that swept to the side was very disappointing. I was expecting for far more integration into the main game.

I imagine in ME3 it will also be a completely redundant achievement.

Modifié par Elithranduil, 01 août 2010 - 03:58 .

#2
Polka14
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 04:34

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The council needs to side with Shepard. It is possible the council is too corrupt to help shepard and it could become an enemy of the spectres.

#3
Darthnemesis2
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 04:37

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Um... Cerberus has basically declared war on the Council. So Shep, by aligning with them, is a traitor. It really is that simple

#4
Guest_Elithranduil_*
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 04:37

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Polka14 wrote...

The council needs to side with Shepard. It is possible the council is too corrupt to help shepard and it could become an enemy of the spectres.


AMEN SALARIAN!

#5
Guest_Elithranduil_*
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 04:39

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Darthnemesis2 wrote...

Um... Cerberus has basically declared war on the Council. So Shep, by aligning with them, is a traitor. It really is that simple


When did this happen?

Oh wait... IT DIDN'T!

The Council just doesn't see eye to eye with Cerberus. Shepard isn't obligated to kowtow to the Council if a certain organisation hurt their feelings. He was granted the full powers and privileges of a SPECTRE agent.

WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GET THE JOB DONE!

#6
Ashira Shepard
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 04:45

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I have to agree with you Elithranduil. It's just a shame that Shepard can't say s/he's a double-agent trying to destroy Cerberus from within or something instead of the game just leaving it at "OMG! SHEPARD SIDED WIT CERBERUS! FLAMEFLAME!"

Irritating.

Modifié par AshiraShepard, 28 avril 2010 - 04:46 .

#7
enormousmoonboots
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 04:47

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Uh, aligning with Cerberus doesn't help galactic stability. It actually harms it, since its intention is to give humans more power, which puts things out of balance.

#8
Onyx Jaguar
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 04:48

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Balance is boring. Galactic stability only helps those it favors.

#9
Guest_Elithranduil_*
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 04:48

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enormousmoonboots wrote...

Uh, aligning with Cerberus doesn't help galactic stability. It actually harms it, since its intention is to give humans more power, which puts things out of balance.


Aligning with Cerberus helps nip the Collector & Reaper threat in the bud before it becomes a major galaxy-wide invasion crisis.

I would say eliminating a Human Reaper promotes galactic stability.

#10
Darthnemesis2
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 04:49

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Elithranduil wrote...

Darthnemesis2 wrote...

Um... Cerberus has basically declared war on the Council. So Shep, by aligning with them, is a traitor. It really is that simple


When did this happen?

Oh wait... IT DIDN'T!

The Council just doesn't see eye to eye with Cerberus. Shepard isn't obligated to kowtow to the Council if a certain organisation hurt their feelings. He was granted the full powers and privileges of a SPECTRE agent.

WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GET THE JOB DONE!


Ok, Cerberus is Pro-Human (= Anti-Alien).  Council = Alien/working with Aliens. Cerberus are KNOWN TERRORISTS, who kill ALIENS (= Council). Therefore, Cerberus is at war with Council, and if Shep is working for Cerberus, clearly he's not working for the Council, so the Council can say "screw your Specre status" and take it away. Again... it really is that simple. 

#11
Ashira Shepard
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 04:50

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The Commander didn't "side" with anyone, s/he got pigeonholed into accepting Cerberus's aid.



From the point Shepard wakes up, they have no idea where they are, and they can only go with the two people who haven't fired a shot at him/her. Then the Commander knows the people are Cerberus, and doesn't know where to go in order to get away, or even if he/she can escape without getting killed again. So they play it cool until they have the Normandy, and get the hell to the Citadel to speak with the council.



#12
Darthnemesis2
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 04:51

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Elithranduil wrote...

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Uh, aligning with Cerberus doesn't help galactic stability. It actually harms it, since its intention is to give humans more power, which puts things out of balance.


Aligning with Cerberus helps nip the Collector & Reaper threat in the bud before it becomes a major galaxy-wide invasion crisis.

I would say eliminating a Human Reaper promotes galactic stability.


You seem to have forgotten "Ah, yes... 'Reapers'. We have dismissed that claim". Reapers don't exist, Saren made them up to scare Sheps... duh I thought everyone knew that... geez 

#13
Ashira Shepard
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 04:54

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Another reason for this thread I suppose.

You'd think even to Shepard, the one who saved them from the bloody reaper they would acknowledge it. They only kept it quiet so as not to scare the public, and yet to Shepard...they treat the Spectre who saved their asses like a mental patient you dangle something shiny in front of.

Modifié par AshiraShepard, 28 avril 2010 - 04:54 .

#14
Guest_Elithranduil_*
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 04:54

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Darthnemesis2 wrote...

Elithranduil wrote...

Darthnemesis2 wrote...

Um... Cerberus has basically declared war on the Council. So Shep, by aligning with them, is a traitor. It really is that simple


When did this happen?

Oh wait... IT DIDN'T!

The Council just doesn't see eye to eye with Cerberus. Shepard isn't obligated to kowtow to the Council if a certain organisation hurt their feelings. He was granted the full powers and privileges of a SPECTRE agent.

WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GET THE JOB DONE!


Ok, Cerberus is Pro-Human (= Anti-Alien).  Council = Alien/working with Aliens. Cerberus are KNOWN TERRORISTS, who kill ALIENS (= Council). Therefore, Cerberus is at war with Council, and if Shep is working for Cerberus, clearly he's not working for the Council, so the Council can say "screw your Specre status" and take it away. Again... it really is that simple. 


Pro-Human does not = Anti-Alien.

The Council have a Human Representative.

Cerberus support a greater role for Humanity in the Galactic Community. Their objective is not to 'kill aliens'.

Working for the Council and working with Cerberus are not mutually exclusive things. You can do both under Spectre authority. Whatever it takes.

Spectres are empowered to use their own judgement (work with Cerberus) in the grand scheme of things to carry out their objective to promote galactic stability.

I can't make this any clearer.

#15
Guest_Elithranduil_*
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 04:57

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Darthnemesis2 wrote...

Elithranduil wrote...

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Uh, aligning with Cerberus doesn't help galactic stability. It actually harms it, since its intention is to give humans more power, which puts things out of balance.


Aligning with Cerberus helps nip the Collector & Reaper threat in the bud before it becomes a major galaxy-wide invasion crisis.

I would say eliminating a Human Reaper promotes galactic stability.


You seem to have forgotten "Ah, yes... 'Reapers'. We have dismissed that claim". Reapers don't exist, Saren made them up to scare Sheps... duh I thought everyone knew that... geez 


If they dismiss the claims why should they threaten him with treason for working with Cerberus? They gave him the authority to make those kind of calls and deal with it accordingly. He's above the law. If he feels that's where he is needed then it's up to him.

#16
NICKjnp
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 04:57

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AshiraShepard wrote...

Another reason for this thread I suppose.

You'd think even to Shepard, the one who saved them from the bloody reaper they would acknowledge it. They only kept it quiet so as not to scare the public, and yet to Shepard...they treat the Spectre who saved their asses like a mental patient you dangle something shiny in front of.


I think the Salarian Councilor is on board with Shepard and Anderson but is trying to keep quiet about it until more evidence is presented.  Mordin and his Pupil both know about Reaper indoctrination.  That would mean the STG knows about it.  I would assume that the Salarian Councilor knows about it as well (being that he has such a high position in Government).

#17
Darthnemesis2
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 05:01

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You know... Saren went off and did whatever the F he wanted, too. And look how that turned out.

As for the rest of your points... Cerberus is anti-alien. 1. Saying they're anything else is like saying a white supremist is not racist. 2. I know there are humans on the Council, ergo the '/working with aliens' section. 3. Working with someone who's trying to kill who you work for will get you branded a traitor by the ones you work for, because lets face it, they don't wanna die. 4. Cerberus doesn't want Galactic stability, they want Human doninance. While that may, in fact, end up being stable, its not really the kind of stability that Council is looking for.

#18
Guest_Elithranduil_*
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 05:01

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NICKjnp wrote...

AshiraShepard wrote...

Another reason for this thread I suppose.

You'd think even to Shepard, the one who saved them from the bloody reaper they would acknowledge it. They only kept it quiet so as not to scare the public, and yet to Shepard...they treat the Spectre who saved their asses like a mental patient you dangle something shiny in front of.


I think the Salarian Councilor is on board with Shepard and Anderson but is trying to keep quiet about it until more evidence is presented.  Mordin and his Pupil both know about Reaper indoctrination.  That would mean the STG knows about it.  I would assume that the Salarian Councilor knows about it as well (being that he has such a high position in Government).


This is a very interesting point and something I didn't pick up on during Mordin's loyalty mission. If the Reapers are such a scam, why are there published studies on indoctrination?

Why then should the Council persist in reprimanding Shepard when the whole point of Shepard's Spectre status is DO WHATEVER IT TAKES and go outside normal legal channels to get the job done.

If the Council can't live with Shepard working with shady organisations like Cerberus in the course of his dealings - they should have thought of that when they decided to found the Special Tactics and Reconnaissance branch with no real command structure.

#19
knightnblu
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 05:02

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Shepard did not join Cerberus, he was pressed into service and funded by them. If you take the paragon path at the grand finale then you are definitely not working for TIM or his organization. Additionally, there is no reference to Cerberus stopping the Batarian attack on the Council to counter the treason claim. As for the support of the Council in ME3, I don't expect any help at all from those drones.



Regarding my Spectre status, I really wish that being a Spectre counted for something in the ME universe, but apparently it aint meant to be. It's like wetting yourself in a dark suit, it gives you a warm feeling, but nobody notices.

#20
Guest_XtremegamerHK47_*
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 05:02

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OP, no matter how you look at it he worked with a terroist organization, which is treason.

#21
Onyx Jaguar
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 05:03

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Unless Cerberus is part of the Alliance

#22
Guest_Elithranduil_*
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 05:04

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XtremegamerHK47 wrote...

OP, no matter how you look at it he worked with a terroist organization, which is treason.


Maybe so. But treason is a criminal offence in the Citadel system of laws. Shepard is above the law. It has no validity or basis when applied to him. He does what he must, because he can.

#23
enormousmoonboots
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 05:05

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Elithranduil wrote...

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Uh, aligning with Cerberus doesn't help galactic stability. It actually harms it, since its intention is to give humans more power, which puts things out of balance.


Aligning with Cerberus helps nip the Collector & Reaper threat in the bud before it becomes a major galaxy-wide invasion crisis.

I would say eliminating a Human Reaper promotes galactic stability.

If a CIA agent showed up at the Pentagon after going dark and you had information implying that he was working for Al-Queda, would you tell him all of your plans? No matter what your personal feelings on Cerberus are, the rest of the galaxy views them as terrorists. I'd say the Council's reaction is completely logical.

TIM made the Council hostile to you by spreading rumors that you were with Cerberus to make sure you had nobody to rely on but him. We have no idea if the Council is telling Shep the truth with the whole 'ah yes, Reapers' thing--in fact, there are a few news announcements about Council races rebuilding their fleets and suddenly practicing drills that imply they're taking the Reapers more seriously than it seems. Don't forget that the salarian STG is aware of the Reapers, apparently aware enough to write academic papers about them.

#24
Darthnemesis2
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 05:05

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Elithranduil wrote...

Darthnemesis2 wrote...

You seem to have forgotten "Ah, yes... 'Reapers'. We have dismissed that claim". Reapers don't exist, Saren made them up to scare Sheps... duh I thought everyone knew that... geez 


If they dismiss the claims why should they threaten him with treason for working with Cerberus? They gave him the authority to make those kind of calls and deal with it accordingly. He's above the law. If he feels that's where he is needed then it's up to him.


That was sarcasm... but since you didn't seem to notice, you win a picture
Image IPB

#25
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Posté 28 avril 2010 - 05:05

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enormousmoonboots wrote...
Uh, aligning with Cerberus doesn't help galactic stability. It actually harms it, since its intention is to give humans more power, which puts things out of balance.

Absence of balance between the species does not guarantee instability IMO.
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