241 réponses à ce sujet

[spike83kodiak]

the whole blind faith thing really gets to me. She does looks great in the sacred ashes trailer minus the prayer before shooting the arrow bit

[devilsgrin]

leliana only tells you what she does once it becomes a "threat" to the Warden, and is about to lose her good standing in the Warden's eyes. Morrigan's ultimate goal wasn't even an option until after you get the grimoire, and anyone who has a grasp of people... and all of the wardens (whatever origin, though perhaps a Dalish might be a little slower on the deceptive up-take) are capable of seeing that there is an ulterior motive to Flemeth sendig Morrigan with you ...any whilst she says she's a matser of deception, we know that she is not.

Don't forget, she lies about being an Assassin. she is, and she hides it from you right up until Marjolaine drags it into the open.



I don't think leliana is particularly immature, as i mentioned, i think that is all a front to get you on-side. but she is mentally screwed up, and we don't get anywhere near enough chance to explore that.

[metalcraze33]

I can't stand her

[sylvanaerie]

devilsgrin wrote...

leliana only tells you what she does once it becomes a "threat" to the Warden, and is about to lose her good standing in the Warden's eyes. Morrigan's ultimate goal wasn't even an option until after you get the grimoire, and anyone who has a grasp of people... and all of the wardens (whatever origin, though perhaps a Dalish might be a little slower on the deceptive up-take) are capable of seeing that there is an ulterior motive to Flemeth sendig Morrigan with you ...any whilst she says she's a matser of deception, we know that she is not.
Don't forget, she lies about being an Assassin. she is, and she hides it from you right up until Marjolaine drags it into the open.

I don't think leliana is particularly immature, as i mentioned, i think that is all a front to get you on-side. but she is mentally screwed up, and we don't get anywhere near enough chance to explore that.

Morrigan's only reason (initially) for going with the PC was the DR.  She never says anything till the night before the battle when she comes to you for it (either to get your male PC to do it with her or to get Alistair to do it).  She is lying to you the ENTIRE time she is with you.  This is not to say I hate Morrigan. She is my 3rd favorite companion.  But if you pay attention to the conversation with her and Flemeth before you set out initially after the Ostagar debacle, you will see they are discussing the ritual right in front of your PC (though you don't know that at the time).

Morri: But I'm not ready
Flemeth: You have to be ready.  Alone these two must defeat the Blight or all will perish, even I.

Thats not about "oh one mage added to the ranks is gonna tip the scales" thats them discussing the ritual.  The reason Flemeth saves the PC and Alistair is because of the ritual not out the goodness of her heart.  Morrigan didn't learn the ritual from Flemeth's book. Flemeth herself taught it to her and sent her with them to do just that.

I love Morri but just like all the other companions until you get to a certain point (in game or in approval) none of them are going to be forthcoming.  Would anyone spill their beans to some stranger they ONLY just met, even if traveling together.  Thats why certain conversations have approval level triggers.  My issue with Morrigan is she calls my PC sister and STILL doesn't say anything till that final night for fear my PC will drive her out of the group and she will miss her freak baby chance.

[OldMan91]

Would anyone spill their beans to some stranger they ONLY just met, even if traveling together. Thats why certain conversations have approval level triggers.

Yeah exactly. What, do people expect Leliana to blurt out everything the moment you meet her?

Warden: Thank you for your help sister.

Leliana: I am Leliana, and i'm going with you. I know how to fight and I can really help! By the way, I used to be a bard in Orlais, meaning that i've lied, deceived, had plenty of sex with and killed people. Also we may encounter my former bardmaster Marjolaine who will try to kill us, most likely by hiring mercenaries. I am so confused! Please love me! LOVE ME! Okay, let's go.

Warden: ...

Modifié par OldMan91, 29 avril 2010 - 10:13 .

[Xandurpein]

Considering the life Leliana has led, it's not that strange that she is a bit screwed up in her head. I tend to think her girlish side to be her way of coping with all the horrible things that has happened to her. A way to hide from things to horrible to face. She probably needs the warden's freindship to really face some things herself, let alone tell anybody else. The truly amazing thing with Leliana is really that she has so much selfless love to offer despite all the trauma's she has suffered.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 29 avril 2010 - 10:15 .

[Tirigon]

homedog 100000 wrote...

I don't get it. . She has the emotinal maturaty of a five year old. She's also annoying as hell. I simply don't get it. 

• her accent
• she´s hot
• she´s one of the most useful partymembers
• she has the best dialogue
• she´s the only female LI for female PCs, and the only female LI who doesn´t disapprove of everything you do for everyone
• she has a fascinating background story

Only "bad" thing about her is her irrational faith in a lie (the Maker), but compared to Morrigan´s, Alistair´s and even Zevran´s faults that´s nothing.

[ell46]

I hated her from the first moment I heard her voice, accent and the way she spoke, telling me what to do. I don't even let her join the group anymore, that way I don't have to see her standing around camp in the most hideous helmet I can find.



It seems to me from all I've read here that EA or BW not sure who is responsible have achieved their goal, for every person who hates X someone else loves them, it would be a bit of a failure if we all liked and disliked the same characters.

[Tirigon]

ell46 wrote...

It seems to me from all I've read here that EA or BW not sure who is responsible have achieved their goal, for every person who hates X someone else loves them, it would be a bit of a failure if we all liked and disliked the same characters.

Why? Pleasing EVERYONE is the greatest achievement a publisher can, in theory, achieve.

[Aisynia]

Tirigon wrote...

Only "bad" thing about her is her irrational faith in a lie (the Maker), but compared to Morrigan´s, Alistair´s and even Zevran´s faults that´s nothing

You don't know it's a lie, no one does, either in the game, or the real world. There's no way to prove it either way, so pronouncing that you are right no matter what is sort of arrogant. Leliana at least admits "maybe I am wrong".

That's where faith is separated from gullibility, as Shale put it. It cannot be explained or understood by those without it I suppose, but it's sort of backwards to pretend you are right no matter what and that you have all the answers when you are pointing the finger at faith for what you see as the same trespasses.

Modifié par Aisynia, 29 avril 2010 - 10:39 .

[HoonDing]

homedog 100000 wrote...

I don't get it. . She has the emotinal maturaty of a five year old. She's also annoying as hell. I simply don't get it. 

Imoen.

[Tirigon]

Aisynia wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Only "bad" thing about her is her irrational faith in a lie (the Maker), but compared to Morrigan´s, Alistair´s and even Zevran´s faults that´s nothing

You don't know it's a lie, no one does, either in the game, or the real world. There's no way to prove it either way, so pronouncing that you are right no matter what is sort of arrogant. Leliana at least admits "maybe I am wrong".

That's where faith is separated from gullibility, as Shale put it. It cannot be explained or understood by those without it I suppose, but it's sort of backwards to pretend you are right no matter what and that you have all the answers when you are pointing the finger at faith for what you see as the same trespasses.

If the Maker exists, he is an ass, or why did he abandon humanity, let his wife Andraste get burned etc...?

And remember, the Black City is conquered by the tevinter mages. A god who lets his home be conquered by humans can´t have much power. And he doesn´t even have his own heaven, only a part of the fade like every higher demon.

[Master Shiori]

Axekix wrote...

Her voice is so velvety and her accent is too cute. 

Plus she's absolutely adorable, and strives to actively be a good person.  What's not to like? 

This.

The only thing I didn't like is her vanilla look, which is why i always use the sacred ashes Leliana mod.

[ejoslin]

Bl1nder wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Guileless? She lies to you about first being a bard and then why she left Orlais. That sounds like some serious guile to me.

You hardly go and tell a person you've met a few hours ago about how you were betrayed, tortured and had to run for you life . Think of Morrigan in comparison, despite everything being said and done "i get the child and I walk, and you do not follow. Ever" has a pretty omnious sound to me

She still is NOT guileless.  Come on, do you believe everything Wynne says?  She's a former bard.  By definition of the word "guileless" she is NOT.

[Aisynia]

Tirigon wrote...

Aisynia wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Only "bad" thing about her is her irrational faith in a lie (the Maker), but compared to Morrigan´s, Alistair´s and even Zevran´s faults that´s nothing

You don't know it's a lie, no one does, either in the game, or the real world. There's no way to prove it either way, so pronouncing that you are right no matter what is sort of arrogant. Leliana at least admits "maybe I am wrong".

That's where faith is separated from gullibility, as Shale put it. It cannot be explained or understood by those without it I suppose, but it's sort of backwards to pretend you are right no matter what and that you have all the answers when you are pointing the finger at faith for what you see as the same trespasses.

If the Maker exists, he is an ass, or why did he abandon humanity, let his wife Andraste get burned etc...?

And remember, the Black City is conquered by the tevinter mages. A god who lets his home be conquered by humans can´t have much power. And he doesn´t even have his own heaven, only a part of the fade like every higher demon.

I think I see what you mean. Even Leli doesn't believe the maker abandoned the world, though she does believe he exists.

The Tevinter didn't conquer the black city, they trespassed where they didn't belong. According to Chantry teachings (emphasis on that), the city wasn't conquered, but abandoned, and the trespassers were cast out, quite easily, and cursed. What really happened there is up for debate, but to conquer a place, you need to stay there as an occupying precense. Whatever happened, whyever they were cast out and by whom, they certainly conquered nothing.

Their hubris led them to their own demise.

The Chantry says that the Maker essentially left in exasperation. If mortals were that intent on making their own fate that they would trespass in heaven, then they obviously didn't need him.

Pretty harsh, yeah I agree, and Leli doesn't seem to believe that an all knowing all powerful all loving deity would be that careless. So no, she doesn't really "believe the lie" in the way you are saying.

It's funny, because Leliana has a more simple and beautiful faith in the Maker, while Wynne is a cold skeptic.. and yet Wynne turns out to be more pious towards the Chantry. That's why a hardened Leliana can be talked out of her attack at the ashes, while Wynne will go crazy and attack no matter what. As much as I like her, Wynne is ultimately the bigger hypocrite.

Anyways, I'm tired, I only got half a night's sleep due to nightmares, so I', not even sure how much sense I am making. I'm gonna get off this subject for now.

I will just leave with this closing comment: Even though she won't "shut up about it" as some people like to say, Leliana never, ever tries to force others to believe the same way she does. She's willing to accept other points of view. I appreciate that quality.

[Aisynia]

ejoslin wrote...

Bl1nder wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Guileless? She lies to you about first being a bard and then why she left Orlais. That sounds like some serious guile to me.

You hardly go and tell a person you've met a few hours ago about how you were betrayed, tortured and had to run for you life . Think of Morrigan in comparison, despite everything being said and done "i get the child and I walk, and you do not follow. Ever" has a pretty omnious sound to me

She still is NOT guileless.  Come on, do you believe everything Wynne says?  She's a former bard.  By definition of the word "guileless" she is NOT.

I think she means in a more general sense, in that Leliana is overall kind-hearted and wants to believe in the goodness of others and shows a lot of compassion throughout the game. Whatever her past, whatever she's done, her life in Ferelden has been defined by a drive to do the right thing and help others.

[Xandurpein]

Aisynia wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Bl1nder wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Guileless? She lies to you about first being a bard and then why she left Orlais. That sounds like some serious guile to me.

You hardly go and tell a person you've met a few hours ago about how you were betrayed, tortured and had to run for you life . Think of Morrigan in comparison, despite everything being said and done "i get the child and I walk, and you do not follow. Ever" has a pretty omnious sound to me

She still is NOT guileless.  Come on, do you believe everything Wynne says?  She's a former bard.  By definition of the word "guileless" she is NOT.

I think she means in a more general sense, in that Leliana is overall kind-hearted and wants to believe in the goodness of others and shows a lot of compassion throughout the game. Whatever her past, whatever she's done, her life in Ferelden has been defined by a drive to do the right thing and help others.

She may not be guileless, but she is in many ways very selfless I think.

[Bl1nder]

Aisynia wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Bl1nder wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Guileless? She lies to you about first being a bard and then why she left Orlais. That sounds like some serious guile to me.

You hardly go and tell a person you've met a few hours ago about how you were betrayed, tortured and had to run for you life . Think of Morrigan in comparison, despite everything being said and done "i get the child and I walk, and you do not follow. Ever" has a pretty omnious sound to me

She still is NOT guileless.  Come on, do you believe everything Wynne says?  She's a former bard.  By definition of the word "guileless" she is NOT.

I think she means in a more general sense, in that Leliana is overall kind-hearted and wants to believe in the goodness of others and shows a lot of compassion throughout the game. Whatever her past, whatever she's done, her life in Ferelden has been defined by a drive to do the right thing and help others.

Pretty much this. Let me put it in another light, after Morrigan left with her child, should you find yourself on opposites sides of a war she would obliderate you without a moment's pause. I just cant see leliana doing the same, maybe it's just me though

[Demx]

Morrigan is a tsundere type of romance

Leliana is more of a fairytale romance

[Demx]

sorry double post

Modifié par Siradix, 29 avril 2010 - 01:34 .

[Sarah1281]

Bl1nder wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Guileless? She lies to you about first being a bard and then why she left Orlais. That sounds like some serious guile to me.

You hardly go and tell a person you've met a few hours ago about how you were betrayed, tortured and had to run for you life . Think of Morrigan in comparison, despite everything being said and done "i get the child and I walk, and you do not follow. Ever" has a pretty omnious sound to me

I'm not saying I blame her for that, far from it. But guile means 'the quality of being good at deceiving people in a clever way' not 'lying to people for no good reason.' I don't see how motivation really comes into play in the 'is she guileless' discussion.

[eucatastrophe]

I don't know about everyone but I on a superficial level I love her playfulness, her physical beauty and her apparent grace. I find it funny and sweet how girly she is, but not annoyingly so.

On a more emotional note, I find her endearing. She is conflicted about a lot of things despite her upfront faith. In fact, I think Leliana goes through personal conflicts every day and she resolves them too and that is what is so amazing about her.

I love that it is she who shows herself the path, but then she convinces herself that it was you, the PC, Marjolaine, or the Chantry.

I love her unwavering faith; as a man of doubt (IRL) and the character I am currently playing, it is refreshing and sometimes, it does help us go on.

I love how she veers between Leliana the Bard and Sister Leliana.

I enjoy her sense of humour, her unconditional appreciation for your PC, and her non-judgemental, forgiving views. I happen to also appreciate the human element she brings to the Chantry and the Maker.

As for Leliana in the game... I like that you can mold her into 2 very different characters yet in she feels equally true in both forms. And that in either form, you can see the other hiding behind. Perhaps, were Leliana a real person, she would be hard and unhard in perfect quantities.

And because I haven't gushed enough about her:

[Sarah1281]

I find it strange everyone talks about how attractive she is only after a lot of them have modded her.

[Herr Uhl]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I find it strange everyone talks about how attractive she is only after a lot of them have modded her.

It's what I like to call the "sacred ashes effect".

Why do people like her? Because she is adorable.

[Aisynia]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

I find it strange everyone talks about how attractive she is only after a lot of them have modded her.

It's what I like to call the "sacred ashes effect".

Why do people like her? Because she is adorable.

I think her default appearance is indeed very pretty, but the sacred ashes version is absolutely alluring. Unfortunately, no one has really CAPTURED the SA look very well. The above picture for instance, doesn't capture the youth and softness of the SA version. The CLOSEST I have found is this one, but it's still not exact.

I wish I had the MRH file, I think I could tighten it down a bit more, but the creator is hardly obliged to release it. It's their vision, after all.