163 réponses à ce sujet

[Dr3xx]

Seifz wrote...

MR-9 wrote...

BioWare screwed themselves with BGII. They made a game so outstanding that from now on, they can only make games that are worse. 3D is highly overrated.

To be honest, BGII is highly overrated.  I certainly enjoyed it the first time, but I just can't go back and play it now.  The terrible interface, the terrble AD&D rules, the terrible graphics... Too painful for a story and characters that I already know.

In my experience, BGII fans have the same mentality as FFVII fans.  Both games were outstanding on release, and for a few years after that.  Since then, they've both been eclipsed by better games (FFX in the case of FFVII, and I'd say DA:O in the case of BGII).  But everyone remembers just how awesome those other games were, and nothing can shake that idea!  Unless they go and play them again...

I mostly agree with you, but I'm not sure what drugs you're on to think that FF10 was better than FF7 in any single way. FF10 is an abomination.

[fro7k]

MR-9 wrote...

MassFrost wrote...

Is it still possible to get BGII by download somewhere? I've never played it, but after DA:O and hearing all the hype about the Baldur's Gate series I feel inclined to try it out.

Check your inbox.

If it's legal there's no need for secrecy is there?

[MR-9]

Sweeping generalizations will never convince people that you have an informed opinion.

[fro7k]

MR-9 wrote...

Sweeping generalizations will never convince people that you have an informed opinion.

Like that one.

[MR-9]

fro7k wrote...

MR-9 wrote...

MassFrost wrote...

Is it still possible to get BGII by download somewhere? I've never played it, but after DA:O and hearing all the hype about the Baldur's Gate series I feel inclined to try it out.

Check your inbox.

If it's legal there's no need for secrecy is there?

Doesn't have anything to do with BGII. The guy's a friend of mine. Assuming makes you look dumb.

[fro7k]

Another thing DA:O lacks is that you can't enter random buildings, whereas in Baldur's Gate they let you enter every building, and if they didn't they made themselves provide an excuse for it by having the house collapsed or something!  Again true to the DA:O spirit of "not giving you places to explore".  The way to put it would be that BG gives you places to explore, DA:O gives you places to travel through.

Modifié par fro7k, 28 novembre 2009 - 11:25 .

[MR-9]

fro7k wrote...

MR-9 wrote...

Sweeping generalizations will never convince people that you have an informed opinion.

Like that one.

Oh crap you got the joke.

[demonitechef]

I remember trying out BG1 on a friend's recommendation...and I couldn't stand it! I got to about level 4 then put it away forever. I don't know why, but when BG2 came out I got it and was infinitely enticed. It became a game that I sunk weeks into...years after its release.



What was the hook for me? Jon Irenicus...that F***ing bastard! Boy oh boy did I want to find him and bury him! If I had to make a list of top villains, Irenicus would be in the top 2.



Another hook: Being immersed into the Forgotten Realms.

[fro7k]

What was the hook for me? Jon Irenicus...that F***ing bastard! Boy oh boy did I want to find him and bury him! If I had to make a list of top villains, Irenicus would be in the top 2.

I spotted Irenicus in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2: Secret of the Ooze a few months back.  The voice rang a bell and then I twigged who it was.

I prefered Sarevok as a villain (and all his dopplegangers), although Irenicus is flawless as well.  The thing is once he got what he wanted out of you his agenda became less interesting.

[Big Mabels Diet-Plan]

The thing that makes the baldurs gate trilogy so good is that you create a character in 1 who can barely take on a wolf and end up at the end of 3 being pretty much a god.

And BG1 has a much better story than 2. It has political intrigue and a believeable antagonist, 2 is good but it's pretty stock bad guy stuff.

[Big Mabels Diet-Plan]

The thing that makes the baldurs gate trilogy so good is that you create a character in 1 who can barely take on a wolf and end up at the end of 3 being pretty much a god.

And BG1 has a much better story than 2. It has political intrigue and a believeable antagonist, 2 is good but it's pretty stock bad guy stuff.

[fro7k]

Dr3xx wrote...

Seifz wrote...

MR-9 wrote...

BioWare screwed themselves with BGII. They made a game so outstanding that from now on, they can only make games that are worse. 3D is highly overrated.

To be honest, BGII is highly overrated.  I certainly enjoyed it the first time, but I just can't go back and play it now.  The terrible interface, the terrble AD&D rules, the terrible graphics... Too painful for a story and characters that I already know.

In my experience, BGII fans have the same mentality as FFVII fans.  Both games were outstanding on release, and for a few years after that.  Since then, they've both been eclipsed by better games (FFX in the case of FFVII, and I'd say DA:O in the case of BGII).  But everyone remembers just how awesome those other games were, and nothing can shake that idea!  Unless they go and play them again...

I mostly agree with you, but I'm not sure what drugs you're on to think that FF10 was better than FF7 in any single way. FF10 is an abomination.

Heard it.  I've never played FF7.  I may prefer it, but it won't convince me that FFX is an abomination.  I've played 8, 10 and 12.

[Skellimancer]

Here is Irenicus at his best.

[Big Mabels Diet-Plan]

The thing that makes the baldurs gate trilogy so good is that you create a character in 1 who can barely take on a wolf and end up at the end of 3 being pretty much a god.

And BG1 has a much better story than 2. It has political intrigue and a believeable antagonist, 2 is good but it's pretty stock bad guy stuff.

[Noin_dwarf]

I fear we won't see another like it until the current trend in development and marketing changes. I do love DA:O, however.

this, +

BG > DA



BG Combat > DA



D&D Rules > DA Rules







And I won't compare stories. The point is BG felt more mature in its combat and ruleset while DA feels a little juvenile in that respect. I am not madly in love with D&D rules and prefer other rulesets in my tabletop RPGs but DA needs to add a bit more depth to the classes, skills, etc. to give its combat as rich a feel as BG had.

This.

History of DDO are good, but ruleset, character creation and treasure hunting just much worst than in BG for this moment. I even prefer D&D 2nd edition to all newer editions. Current ruleset of DAO seems very like MMO's one to me.

I would love to see ruleset overhaul mod in DAO. I love dice system with all this misses, difficulty checks, uncertain damage and uncleanness of battle at all.

[Raxxman]

Treylinn wrote...


BG Combat > DA
D&D Rules > DA Rules

I'm disapointed that I agree with this point.

Bioware had a chance to step out of D&Ds shadow and develope a ruleset that was perfectly suited to the game style. Sadly they failed IMO, which is compounded with the fact that I think 4th ed is just screaming for a cRPG game and it's fairly well balanced, not perfect at higher levels, but I think D&D has always had issues at high levels.

[fro7k]

Now I think of it DA:O felt a bit more derivative (a bit from MMORPGs, a bit from Morrowind/Oblivion, and seasoning from their previous titles), whereas BG set the bar and trend for games to come (although it was derivative of D&D, but I'd never played that).

[purplesunset]

MR-9 wrote...

BioWare screwed themselves with BGII. They made a game so outstanding that from now on, they can only make games that are worse. 3D is highly overrated.

I agree, and I was even thinking about starting a thread about this issue.

I have always wondered: how do game developers view gaming immortality ?

Do they consider immortality a good thing or a bad thing?

Is Baldur's Gate  just a heavy weight around Bioware's neck that they want to shrug off ?

Do game developers think like  the people at Apple ? Apple would absolutely hate it if everyone kept gushing about how great the first-gen i-pods were. Apple wants you to keep buying what's new and what's fresh, and so to them, immortality is a bad thing.

Would a game developer therefore  be concerned about makiing a game that is too good, because it might achieve immortality ?

Would they deliberately hamper a game to prevent immortality from happening in order for them to make you keep buying what's new and what's fresh a la Apple ?

So many questions....so few answers

Modifié par purplesunset, 28 novembre 2009 - 11:47 .

[fro7k]

purplesunset wrote...

MR-9 wrote...

BioWare screwed themselves with BGII. They made a game so outstanding that from now on, they can only make games that are worse. 3D is highly overrated.

I agree, and I was even thinking about starting a thread about this issue.

I have always wondered: how do game developers view gaming immortality ?

Do they consider immortality a good thing or a bad thing?

Is Baldur's Gate  just a heavy weight around Bioware's neck that they want to shrug off ?

Do game developers think like  the people at Apple ? Apple would absolutely hate it if everyone kept gushing about how great the first-gen i-pods were. Apple wants you to keep buying what's new and what's fresh, and so to them, immortality is a bad thing.

Would a game developer therefore  be concerned about makiing a game that is too good, because it might achieve immortality ?

Would they deliberately hamper a game to prevent this from happening in order for them to make you keep buying what's new and what's fresh like Apple ?

So many questions....so little answers

If they can make the game that good once, they can do it again.

[Big Mabels Diet-Plan]

I remember reading how Baldurs Gate 2 was able to be the game it was due to a combination of factors including the fact that the infinity engine was developed to the point where more resources could be poured into characterisation, plot progression and fine tuning what had already worked in BG1.

It was like a perfect storm of established gameplay mechanics plus time to develop that is very very unlikely to be ever repeated.

Plus there was a touching dedication to a guy, I forget his name, in the manual who had died during the making of it who apparently conributed an awful lot to the artwork in the game.

All in all, thos of you waiting for another BG2: It's never going to happen and it some ways the game is an albatross for Bioware.

[Noin_dwarf]

If they can make the game that good once, they can do it again.

"Can" and "will" is a different things.

[purplesunset]

TripedWire wrote...
Plus there was a touching dedication to a guy, I forget his name, in the manual who had died during the making of it who apparently conributed an awful lot to the artwork in the game.
All in all, thos of you waiting for another BG2: It's never going to happen and it some ways the game is an albatross for Bioware.

Oh my. I was deeply touched when I read that dedication in the manual. Even thinking about it now makes me become pensive. Hmm...

[Xiphias]

MassFrost wrote...

Is it still possible to get BGII by download somewhere? I've never played it, but after DA:O and hearing all the hype about the Baldur's Gate series I feel inclined to try it out.

I don't know about download but the boxed 'Baldur's Gate Compilation' version is still available here in the UK so check your local shops.

fro7k wrote...

I spotted Irenicus in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2: Secret of the Ooze a few months back.  The voice rang a bell and then I twigged who it was.

Yeah, David Warner (who voiced Irenicus). He also voiced Huge Rune in the audio adaptation of The Brightonomicon, I hadn't appreciated how similar he was to Irenicus before...

[GoldenusG]

In my opinion, Biowares games rank something in this order (I've never played Shattered Steel, or MDK2, also I'm counting expansions as part of the core game):

Baldur's Gate 2
Knights of the Old Republic
Dragon Age: Origins
Neverwinter Nights
Baldur's Gate
Mass Effect
Jade Empire
Sonic Chronicles

The most disappointing of these, I think was Jade Empire, which was a superb half game. I was just getting into it, when it entered the end-game sequence and BOOM! Nothing I'd done really mattered.


I think, that for a sequel to DA:O, there is the potential to at least equal BG2 if they get it right. They've created the world, now they must fill it.

Modifié par GoldenusG, 29 novembre 2009 - 12:15 .

[Landozelig]

Does anyone know if the games run under Windows 7? Possibly using XP mode? I may have to dig out all my old CD's, DVD's and manuals.