22 réponses à ce sujet

[endgamecutter]

I'm used to the stereotypical party of dead weight (lockpicker) tank (guy with big shield) murderer (mage) and wuss (healer), but seeing as this ain't an MMO, I've been wondering about the neccesity of the roles in DAO. Usually I wouldn't think twice about this and just stick to that party makeup, but it just so happens that the characters that fall in to those roles are boring as hell, (mainly due to the lack of oghren, who makes everything better.)

It also has a huge influence on what I play, since I don't want to burn a slot in my party on something that won't contribute. Lockpicker is in either way, since I hate giving up chests (I die a little inside every time I start as something other than a rogue due to all the chests I miss...never play as a rogue anyway though...)

So yeah what do the experts decree on the topic of the stereotypical party? is it needed/incredibly helpful in DAO? or could you just as easily if not easier get by without those roles?

[Rhys Cordelle]

You could certainly get through the game without a rogue to open locks, but between lock picking and trap disarming, you'd be missing out on quite a bit of experience, not to mention money and items. Rogues are far from dead weight in DA anyway. Personally if I'm playing as a rogue I will still recruit Leliana or Zevran. Two rogues can really compliment eachother to make sure that someone is always getting in the backstabs, and having that second rogue means that you can invest your skills into persuasion and let the other rogue focus on pickpocketing and/or poison making.



Personally I prefer to have one mage in the party, because two makes the game too easy. So just take spirit healer as one of your specializations, and you'll get by just fine with Heal and Group Heal, with plenty of time in between to sling damage spells.

[Wicked 702]

I resent the labeling of a healer as a wuss (despite it's relative truthfulness especially in WoW) since I was probably the best damned priest my guild ever had.

But anyway.....No, Dragon Age doesn't necessarily require you to hold to the MMO "standards". You could theoretically play any party combo you want (within the confines of the game of course, ex. 4 mages are impossible since you only get 2 mages plus yourself if you're a mage).

For example instead of making one mage a healer, you could simply train yourself or another NPC (maybe a rogue since they get more skill points than anyone else) as an herbalist and just craft potions the whole way through. You could also have the warrior dual wield weapons instead of being a sword/shield tank. Or you could play an arcane warrior, a mage that wears heavy armor and fights with both spells and weapons. And many more....

It all really comes down to personal preference and learning how to build the right mix.

[The Grey Ranger]

Labeling a healer a "wuss" in DAO really undersells them in a big way. By end game you're looking at what level 20-23? There are only 8 healing line spells, even with full investment in spirit healer. You can spec out the other 12-15 talents into nuke'em till they glow spells, crowd control or party buff pretty easily. You'll probably use a lot of lyrium potions, but so what? Thats what they're for.

Especially if you want to use a two handed warrior anyway.  You could lose one mage fairly easily.

Modifié par The Grey Ranger, 30 avril 2010 - 05:06 .

[Rhys Cordelle]

I've never bothered to go past Heal. Are the rejuvenation spells worthwhile?

[sagefire1204]

I got through the game without a proper tank, this probably wasn't the best idea and made it slightly harder.



My character was a rogue (duelist/assassin), Leliana (Bard/Ranger, equipped with marjolene's Recurve), Morrigan (Shapeshifter/Blood Mage), Wyne (Spirit Healer). I had to keep a lot of health and lyrium potions on hand and used Leliana's ranger abilities to summon creatures. Apart from that the team seemed to work fairly well.



When I defeated the archdemon the only two members of my team that survived were Morrigan and Leliana. Wynne did have some elemental skills, but was mainly focussed on healing. I wouldn't have called her a 'wuss' by any means.

[Sammy0721]

I am going with a 3 DPS (from three classes) and healer party right now, and the death and fights go really, really fast even in nightmare. The rogue, is a dual-wielder assassin/bard, Sten, Morrigan and Wynne. I have my two mages launch paralyze glyphs so my rogue can backstab everyone from the front. Your rogue is really a dex tank especially with Revenants but is most likely the highest DPS at the same time. I really like the blitzkrieg approach and with all the CC (stun, paralyze, poisons, claw traps & bombs, crushing prison, glyphs, pommel strike, punisher knock downs) you really don't get hit. I use a neutralization glyph on enemy mages as my warrior and rogue melee the neutered mage. Ironically, sticking with buffs and avoiding damaging spells makes nightmare (almost like normal) because it mitigates the big rule changes (less time fighting means no 4-5 chain rams from alpha ogres .... no friendly fire from fireball ... no enemy resisting a spell ... less need on big health potions (which gets watered down on nightmare ... with a glyph of warding your defense is around 120 which makes it really hard to get hit in a quick fight)

Some alternatives to your standard party. (Tank, DPS, rogue, Mage)

3 DPS and healer

4 Warriors

2 mage (but focused on melee AW or Strength based Shapeshifter ), Tank and Rogue

2 Archers, Warrior, Healer

3 Rangers and a Mage (Pets as Meat Shields)

[DWSmiley]

Well, people solo on nightmare (not me!) so the standard party is definitely not needed. I prefer Morrigan's crowd control to Wynne's healing and I usually don't even have Morrigan take the Heal spell. It hasn't been a problem. And I've stopped using a tank. No tank or healer makes fights more intense - you kill the beasties quickly or you slip up and they kill you.



I haven't had the gumption to try a no-mages party yet. I think a fun one would be three Rangers plus Dog.

[Gecon]

Vanguard: Saga of Heroes killed other MMOs for me, because in Vanguard, my healers where kickass characters.



The Cleric was near unkillable, the Blood Mage had insane dps, the Shaman had so many spells and debuffs I usually never got around debuffing opponents completely before they're dead, and ... well OK I sadly never managed to play my Disciple much lol.



If WoW Healers are just wuss... well another reason I wont bother with WoW then. Though I heard Death Clerics in WoW are actually dps characters.

[endgamecutter]

Gecon wrote...

If WoW Healers are just wuss... well another reason I wont bother with WoW then. Though I heard Death Clerics in WoW are actually dps characters.

To clarify, I said WoW as an example for the stereotypical MMO, where priests or whatever the healer class is is generally seen as a wuss who's only job is keeping the group healthy. This stereotype is actually not true in the least from the few examples I know (or at least from what I hear), but the class is usually described as a healer.

I'm aware that people can solo the game, but that generally uses the arcane warrior, which is impossible to kill without a templar, or something. I was mainly wondering for the average really bad player of the game (one who doesn't spend half the battle arranging tactics or micromanaging every character), as I am one, and was wondering whether or not I'd need to bring Alistair/Wynne along all the time, since I don't really like Wynne, and I don't want to drag around Alistair every playthrough.

[Sylvius the Mad]

1. Tanks are unnecessary in DAO if you have multiple mages.
2. Lockpickers are unnecessary generally.*
3. Healers do make the game a lot easier.
4. Nukers in DAO are an easy button, but you don't need them.

So, the only one that really hurts you nott o have is a Healer, but you can give any mage a single healing spell and that solves most of that problem for you.

* As mentioned, lockpickers do generate a lot of XP. However, since you can return to most areas later and open all the chests and disarm all the traps (which you carefully avoided the first time), you actually get bonus XP from that as lockpicking XP doesn't scale like combat XP does. And while you can't return to random encounter regions, all that means is that you should travel with a Rogue, even if you don't generally adventure with one.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 04 mai 2010 - 10:21 .

[soteria]

If WoW Healers are just wuss... well another reason I wont bother with WoW then. Though I heard Death Clerics in WoW are actually dps characters.

In WoW, three or four classes can heal effectively if they specialize that way. You can set up two specializations, though, and switching is as easy as pushing a button, so you can pretty easily transition from pure healing to face melting any time you're out of combat.

I've never bothered to go past Heal. Are the rejuvenation spells worthwhile?

Regeneration is amazing; it blows Heal out of the water.

[Nooneyouknow13]

soteria wrote...

If WoW Healers are just wuss... well another reason I wont bother with WoW then. Though I heard Death Clerics in WoW are actually dps characters.

In WoW, three or four classes can heal effectively if they specialize that way. You can set up two specializations, though, and switching is as easy as pushing a button, so you can pretty easily transition from pure healing to face melting any time you're out of combat.

I've never bothered to go past Heal. Are the rejuvenation spells worthwhile?

Regeneration is amazing; it blows Heal out of the water.

Regeneration is pratically identical to Heal.  It's slightly more health per cast, for the same mana to health ratio.  Health and Mana regen ticks in combat are every 2 seconds, not every second.  By the same toekn, Mass Rejuvenation does not actually give the caster back mana, it' just an extremely cheap spell over time.

Modifié par Nooneyouknow13, 07 mai 2010 - 10:18 .

[Gecon]

Regernation is pratically identical to Heal. It's slightly more health per cast, for the same mana to health ratio.

Wrong and wrong.



Its a lot more health per cast and it has a lot better health per mana ratio.



I dont remember the exact numbers, but once I have Regeneration, I hardly use Heal at all any more; only for compensating those times when Regeneration is down.

[Carol L S]

I never use Wynne.  I give one healing spell to Morrigan and then there are plenty of potions.

[Nooneyouknow13]

Gecon wrote...

Regeneration is pratically identical to Heal. It's slightly more health per cast, for the same mana to health ratio.

Wrong and wrong.

Its a lot more health per cast and it has a lot better health per mana ratio.

I dont remember the exact numbers, but once I have Regeneration, I hardly use Heal at all any more; only for compensating those times when Regeneration is down.

No. The numbers showing that it has vastly better efficiency mistakenly calculate regeneration ticks in combat as 1 per second and not 2 per second.  The reason you're finding it to work so well in practice is the that the incomning damage simply isn't exceeding the increased regen. It's more action efficient certainly, but up to 100 spell power the Mana Per Health Ratios for Heal and Regeneration are identical.

Modifié par Nooneyouknow13, 07 mai 2010 - 10:19 .

[Wompoo]

Honestly the game difficulty isn't that great on any setting. Go with 3 rogues only with ranger summon and you'll get through the game easily. You can two man it, solo it (the mere fact you can go solo on nightmare in a team based game, should tell you how weak the AI and difficulty settings are). Even a sword board can be set up to do dps. Half the time if you are playing a mage and the mobs come gunning for you, run if you have no defensive spells ready... don't stand still unless you like dying (run big circles, gods the AI isn't to bright, they'll follow and get picked off). You can get by without a healer, but honestly until you have the gold in excess for stacks of elf root etc take a healer. As for heals, group heal and heal even on nightmare is more then enough, just supplement with a pot set up in the tactics window. This game isn't like playing DnD on normal or hardcore, not even close.

Modifié par Wompoo, 07 mai 2010 - 04:17 .

[Tokion]

The potion spamming in this game has eliminated the need for healers. Although I would like Wynne in my party, slots were too limited in a party of 4 to take her into account because I can take companions solely for RP reasons and hilarious banters.



It is a shame that there are no real needs to make a more tactical approach to the game. Like you can go through the whole game solo and spamming pots and live through most boss fights.

[Random70]

Please allow me to edit...

Tokion wrote...
Like you can go through the whole game solo without spamming pots and live through all boss fights.

Thats a little more accurate.

[traversc]

I think you'd be hard pressed to do that with a rogue or warrior, though.

[soteria]

Someone who is a lot more dedicated that I did it as a rogue without potions, actually.

[Tokion]

Random70 wrote...

Please allow me to edit...

Tokion wrote...
Like you can go through the whole game solo without spamming pots and live through all boss fights.

Thats a little more accurate.

Not the point I was trying to make. Potion itself should not be spamable every few seconds. This self-destructive mechanicism ruins gameplay since most gamers will use the most effective method to tackle a problem.

But if you are looking to handicap yourself, go ahead.