112 réponses à ce sujet

[KnightofPhoenix]

So, who here actually sided with Justice against the baroness?

Naturally, my first reaction was an inclination to side with Justice, as what the baroness was doing is horrible and pointless, Orlesian scum that she is. However, our real priority is to leave the Fade, before our body decays and becomes unsuitable.
 
So here you have the spirit Justice that is telling you out right that it doesn't know how to cross the veil and that it will *try* and search. Keep in mind that the body decays pretty quickly without the spirit.

On the otherhand, you have the Baroness who brought these people and herself into the fade in the first place, thus has a higher chance of knowing how to cross the veil. Of course, my "canonical" Warden sided with her.

So I am curious. Who here let emotions / first impressions / sense of justice / whatever it is, cloud their better judgement and side with Justice?

Of course, at the end it doesnt' matter much, as regardless of choice we go back. But that's metagaming. In-game, we can't know that.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 01 mai 2010 - 05:49 .

[Nuclear]

I went with Justice, no way was my Cousland going to side with that power hungry betch. She is certainly some Orlesian scum.



I had a feeling that Justice would find a way for me to get back anyway or the Baroness might do something out of desperation. (Tho and behold, look what happened)

[shedevil3001]

my fhn sided with justice as she is a goody character who even if it meant dying herself would never side with someone who had commited such evil crimes, but thats just the type of character she is

[Daewan]

My Arcane Warrior sided with Justice because he wanted to loot her Fade corpse.

[KnightofPhoenix]

-ßeta- wrote...
I had a feeling that Justice would find a way for me to get back anyway or the Baroness might do something out of desperation. (Tho and behold, look what happened)

I hope you realise it was a huge risk.

shedevil3001 wrote...

my fhn sided with justice as she is a goody character who even if it meant dying herself would never side with someone who had commited such evil crimes, but thats just the type of character she is

And so she would prefer to let Amrathine burn, because she wouldn't side with the Baroness? Hmmm interesting.

[shedevil3001]

she still saved amaranthine but lost vigils keep, she knew she'd find a way to get back from the fade so it wasn't a case of letting amaranthine burn, so to speak, it was more a case of not selling out to evil and becoming the very things she was protecting fereldon from, if that makes any sense, i'm not very good at putting things in words

[LadyDamodred]

Guess. >.>

[Nuclear]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

-ßeta- wrote...
I had a feeling that Justice would find a way for me to get back anyway or the Baroness might do something out of desperation. (Tho and behold, look what happened)

I hope you realise it was a huge risk.

Oh yes definitely, most sensical option would be to side with the Baroness really. With her you know that she would be most likely one to know a way out, after all she let them in and has been in there for a very long time. Also due to her nature she would probably find ways out then make sure the villagers would not be able to escape using those methods. But I like to think of my PC as a thick goody-two-shoes who isn't fond of rational thinking and does whatever it takes to help and save everyone (saved Connor and Isolde by wasting time to hike back to the mages because she was too much of a pansy to kill Isolde, what a waste), so I would have went with Justice anyway. 

[KnightofPhoenix]

shedevil3001 wrote...

she still saved amaranthine but lost vigils keep, she knew she'd find a way to get back from the fade so it wasn't a case of letting amaranthine burn, so to speak, it was more a case of not selling out to evil and becoming the very things she was protecting fereldon from, if that makes any sense, i'm not very good at putting things in words

Justice told her that he doesn't know how to cross the veil and but he will try. If the body remains without a spirit, it decays. Your PC refused to side with the baroness, despite the fact that she has a better chance to return back to the real world if she did.

So in your PC's mind, logically, siding with the baroness is unacceptable, even if it means returning to save Amarathine. In other words, the lives of the people of Amaranthine are less important than being "good" and avoid siding with "evil".

She couldn't have known that she could return from the veil, not when Justice is teling her that he doesn't know. Unless she is an eternal (and irrational imo) optimist. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 01 mai 2010 - 06:02 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Guess. >.>

Side with Justice I presume?

Too much logic and reason at work when siding with the baroness?

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 01 mai 2010 - 06:03 .

[Sarah1281]

Do we know that the Baroness would agree to help? Justice, at least, is willing to try and since he couldn't risk attacking the Baroness directly until she came out (and why would she?) it wasn't a huge threat to her so conclusively rejecting Justice to try and get her help would backfire if she wouldn't do it. If the back-up plan is to try and force her to help, that could be done by siding with Justice.

[LadyDamodred]

lol



HNF sided with Justice, in part b/c the Baroness is friggin' evil and she's not exactly cool with that. My Orlesian might side with her. Dunno.



But, also, my character is fairly confident she can get out. She did it once before, and by herself. She figures with a whole group, they'll be able to find their way out, even if Justice doesn't know how. It could be false-confidence, but hey, there it is.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Do we know that the Baroness would agree to help? Justice, at least, is willing to try and since he couldn't risk attacking the Baroness directly until she came out (and why would she?) it wasn't a huge threat to her so conclusively rejecting Justice to try and get her help would backfire if she wouldn't do it. If the back-up plan is to try and force her to help, that could be done by siding with Justice.

We can negotiate with the baroness at least, before we decide who to side with.
When talking to her, we know that the baroness is able and willing to help.

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...
But, also, my character is fairly confident she can get out. She did it once before, and by herself. She figures with a whole group, they'll be able to find their way out, even if Justice doesn't know how. It could be false-confidence, but hey, there it is.

Because she killed the demon who put her there before. That's a different situation all together.

It is false confidence if you don't mind me saying.

[shedevil3001]

exactly my point sarah1281 even if we choose to side with the baroness, that doesn't mean she would actually help us after all those villagers trusted her and look what she did to them, i chose to side with someone who may not of been able to help but at least i trusted him more than someone who killed an entire village to feed her vanity, so yes i took the morale root but imho it was the right choice

[LadyDamodred]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
But, also, my character is fairly confident she can get out. She did it once before, and by herself. She figures with a whole group, they'll be able to find their way out, even if Justice doesn't know how. It could be false-confidence, but hey, there it is.

Because she killed the demon who put her there before. That's a different situation all together.

It is false confidence if you don't mind me saying.

Probably.  Doesn't change how she feels, though.  At this point, the PC is a BAMF, and I don't think any of them truly feel helpless in any situation.

My Orlesian, though, doesn't have this experience.  She is far more likely to be 'want go home now' and take the best way out she sees.

[Xetirox]

The Baroness is not someone to be trusted, her past actions have confirmed as much. Striking any sort of agreement with her based on what you know is nothing short of foolish. If you want someone like her to do something for you, she needs to be brought to heel first. I sided with Justice, but I told him (and Anders and Velanna when they protested) it was only to force the wench to send me back.

And besides, I didn't know you could speak to her before storming the gate and arrange such a deal until after I bbeat the game. Ah well.

Modifié par Xetirox, 01 mai 2010 - 06:40 .

[LadyDamodred]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
So I am curious. Who here let emotions / first impressions / sense of justice / whatever it is, cloud their better judgement and side with Justice?

Just a quick note, it's not clouding their better judgement.  A lot of people play characters whose beliefs and ideals exactly match up with Justice.  From your perspective, if your character did it, it would be clouding your better judgement, but it will be different for everyone.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Xetirox wrote...

The Baroness is not someone to be trusted, her past actions have confirmed as much. Striking any sort of agreement with her based on what you know is nothing short of foolish. If you want someone like her to do something for you, she needs to be brought to heel first. I sided with Justice, but I told him it was only to force the wench to send me back.

That, and I didn't know you could speak to her before storming the gate and arrange such a deal. Ah well.

So you didn't know about the alternative.

Siding with her is a risk, no doubt. But can you guarantee that you can force her to comply, when it would be better to negotiate? You assume that :
a- she won't die.
b- you can win (and she does seem pretty powerful and you are in her home turf)
c- she would comply when brought to heel (why would she? When Justice wants her dead anyways)
d- she wouldn't lie when she does comply

Trusting her completely would be foolish, yes. But she has no real reason to keep you in the fade, not when she knows that would just add more enemies to her rule. It's in her interest to just send us back to where we came.
From what we know, she is the only person capable of tearing the veil, so there is little choice in the matter.
So those siding with the baroness are assuming one thing only, that she isn't lying. Much less risk involved.

@ LD
Sure, might have used the wrong words. Still, seeing how everyone has a job to do, risking complete failure and death before achieving it is against everyone 's better judgement, unless people believe ideals are more important than the lives entrusted to them. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 01 mai 2010 - 06:43 .

[Tirigon]

I sided with Justice, but then I had to reload to get the Sentinel armor complete, so I decided to try the other way and allied with the baroness.



In the end I liked siding with the baroness better and kept it that way, because I was roleplaying an Orlaisian Blood Mage Grey Warden, so the baroness wasn´t that much different from me - except for the pointless torture part that had made me kill her the first time^^



However, if I ever get to importing my human noble, siding with the Baroness will be impossible - first, because she´s Orlaisian scum, second because my Princess-consort is a very pious woman and hates blood mages, demons and everything else the Chantry condemns to the death. She would rather be trapped in the fade then betray her faith by helping a bloodmage-turned-demon.

[LadyDamodred]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
@ LD
Sure, might have used the wrong words. Still, seeing how everyone has a job to do, risking complete failure and death before achieving it is against everyone 's better judgement, unless people believe ideals are more important than the lives entrusted to them. 

It's a risk either way.  I think your two options are fairly even.  And your character is pretty goddamn awesome, so I don't see either choice as risking complete failure and death.  So that allows people to follow what they feel is the best choice.

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
@ LD
Sure, might have used the wrong words. Still, seeing how everyone has a job to do, risking complete failure and death before achieving it is against everyone 's better judgement, unless people believe ideals are more important than the lives entrusted to them. 

It's a risk either way.  I think your two options are fairly even.  And your character is pretty goddamn awesome, so I don't see either choice as risking complete failure and death.  So that allows people to follow what they feel is the best choice.

Metagaming.

It's obviously more risky to count on a spirit that tells you that it doesn't know how to cross the veil, anger and fight the only person who can, and then expect her to comply. Compared to negotiating and making a deal with the only person who can cross the veil.

[shedevil3001]

i wasn't aware there was a right choice or a wrong choice, as either way you get out of the fade, i thought it was about playing the game the way you want to, and me personally i play as a good warden who wont make deals with evil people no matter what as things can come back to bite you in the rear later, it's better to try your best and do all you can without becoming the monster you are trying to stop, morally i would never side with anyone who killed innocent villagers for her own vanity

[Raiil]

I sided with Justice. Aside from being the sort of character who would have lopped off the Baroness's head regardless, my Amell's extremely rash and decided she trusted Justice right off the bat without really thinking about it too hard. She figured she got out there once, she can do it again. Plus, she's a mage, so she knows the Fade quite well and might have had a back-up plan. Not a good one, mind you, but still.

[Vespasian 91]

My evil blood mage sided with the baroness