51 réponses à ce sujet

[DaVanguard]

^^as the tital says

Scimitar- good but it takes four shots to kill on normal which means six total kills

Katana- pointless because of the evisciator

Evisciator- good some times have onehit kills but ammo drops of 2/3 round makes it inefficent to me

Claymoor- good if you can pull of the reload trick good ammo efficentcy best in my opionon

[cruc1al]

Scimitar - way too slow at killing regular mobs because one shot doesn't damage enough. Don't like it.

Katana - excellent combination of fire-rate, damage and clip size; works a long way with the two early shotgun upgrades + shield piercing, especially if you use an ammo power. Also great for soldiers who like to sprint close, put up AR and blast in the face (kills any regular mob). My favorite.

Eviscerator - great shotgun, can be used from behind cover efficiently because of better accuracy. Becomes the #1 shotgun for a vanguard when 1 shot + 1 melee from Katana doesn't kill regular mobs anymore. However, damage per clip leaves something to desire.

Claymore - too slow unless you exploit the reload trick which I don't.

Modifié par cruc1al, 02 mai 2010 - 02:41 .

[Samurai_Wahoo]

Reguarding all shotguns, I dislike them. The effective range is way too short IMO. Plus, this seems to be a problem with any type of shooting games, but why is it buck shot all the time? Why is it a wide choke all the time? Why not slugs?



I just find it silly that in the future a shotguns effective range is only 2--3 meters. Shotguns in ME is just a melee weapon with bullets. Maybe I am exagerating, but it feels like the use of a shotgun could be replaced with a well placed bayonette to the throat of an enemy.

[cruc1al]

Samurai_Wahoo wrote...

Reguarding all shotguns, I dislike them. The effective range is way too short IMO. Plus, this seems to be a problem with any type of shooting games, but why is it buck shot all the time? Why is it a wide choke all the time? Why not slugs?

I just find it silly that in the future a shotguns effective range is only 2--3 meters. Shotguns in ME is just a melee weapon with bullets. Maybe I am exagerating, but it feels like the use of a shotgun could be replaced with a well placed bayonette to the throat of an enemy.

True... a bayonette would negate kinetic barriers too. But armor piercing might be a problem.

I guess the point about shotguns is that you can do lots of damage up close, but you don't need to get in the face to be effective with them; that avoids being vulnerable to enemy close-range attacks like those bayonettes you mentioned (which doesn't happen in-game but I'm just trying to think realistically).

[FFTARoxorz05]

Eviscerator is probably the best, but I haven't made a shotgun Infiltrator/Sentinel/Vanguard yet so I wouldn't really know. I'm probably taking shotguns when I get to the collector ship though on my Infiltrator, so we'll see.

[Samurai_Wahoo]

cruc1al wrote...

Samurai_Wahoo wrote...

Reguarding all shotguns, I dislike them. The effective range is way too short IMO. Plus, this seems to be a problem with any type of shooting games, but why is it buck shot all the time? Why is it a wide choke all the time? Why not slugs?

I just find it silly that in the future a shotguns effective range is only 2--3 meters. Shotguns in ME is just a melee weapon with bullets. Maybe I am exagerating, but it feels like the use of a shotgun could be replaced with a well placed bayonette to the throat of an enemy.

I guess the point about shotguns is that you can do lots of damage up close, but you don't need to get in the face to be effective with them; that avoids being vulnerable to enemy close-range attacks like those bayonettes you mentioned (which doesn't happen in-game but I'm just trying to think realistically).

I probably need to play around more with the shotguns (mainly the Evi), but it feels like I need to be right up on an enemy to do any damage that could compare to the other weapons that can do it from range or advancing to cover. 

[swk3000]

I've never done any significant damage to any enemy with a Shotgun, even at point-blank range. Even the Eviscerator's range is horrible. If you don't have the barrel resting against the enemy's chest, you basically can't hit.

[cruc1al]

Maybe you just need to try vanguard...

@ swk3000

That's just not true. With the claymore, for example, you can kill an unshielded blue suns merc from at least 5 meters away just by popping out of cover.

Modifié par cruc1al, 02 mai 2010 - 03:11 .

[swk3000]

First, Vanguard got me killed more times than I can count because of Adrenaline Rush.



Second, even with Charge, I've never done the sort of damage I've seen in videos. I've seen a video where they Charge into a Blue Suns Trooper that has full Health and Shields, and the Trooper looses all of his shields and most of his health. And that's before they shoot or melee. I can't even take out their shields.



Vanguard looks fun, but I can't match the damage output everyone else gets with it.

[Samurai_Wahoo]

cruc1al wrote...

Maybe you just need to try vanguard...

I'm not sure if this directed at me, but I have done the Vanguard and I am terrible at playing the popular way.

I guess, if I had to pick a favorite shottie it would have to be the Scimitar.  It is very situational for my VG.

I roll with Inferno ammo and area charge for my VG.  Scimitar can spit out rounds fast and the Inferno Ammo has that 3 meter burst.  It will strip the defense off a whole group of enemies and I charge in and send them flying.  Really the only time I find the Scimitar useful is Husks or the merc mechs.  They seemed to come boxed together.

[StefanBW]

I tried the Claymore with my soldier on Insanity. It was pretty frustrating, but really satisfying to blast enemies away when you are within a few inches from them.

[DaVanguard]

stefanbw wrote...

I tried the Claymore with my soldier on Insanity. It was pretty frustrating, but really satisfying to blast enemies away when you are within a few inches from them.

it is satisfing even if it becomes over kill

[mosor]

stefanbw wrote...

I tried the Claymore with my soldier on Insanity. It was pretty frustrating, but really satisfying to blast enemies away when you are within a few inches from them.

I prefer to do that with the Revenant as a soldier, even on insanity. Claymore blows compared to the Widow and Rev. Even most vaguard players would rather take sniper training than take the claymore because the Evi is a great shotgun.

[skcih-deraj]

swk3000 wrote...

First, Vanguard got me killed more times than I can count because of Adrenaline Rush.

Second, even with Charge, I've never done the sort of damage I've seen in videos. I've seen a video where they Charge into a Blue Suns Trooper that has full Health and Shields, and the Trooper looses all of his shields and most of his health. And that's before they shoot or melee. I can't even take out their shields.

Vanguard looks fun, but I can't match the damage output everyone else gets with it.

Maybe your doing it wrong I've never had a problem like that.

is charge maxed out?
do have all your shotgun up grades?
got your biotics at least at three?

Try an ammo power and aim for the head other than that I dont know I'd have to look at your build.

[swk3000]

I have no build. All I know about building a Vanguard is to max Charge first, then the passive, then whatever else I happen to want. That's all anyone is willing to say; other than that, they point me at a thread that has level 30 builds, but no tactics, and it's the tactics that are getting me killed.

[Hahren]

cruc1al wrote...

Scimitar - way too slow at killing regular mobs because one shot doesn't damage enough. Don't like it.

Katana - excellent combination of fire-rate, damage and clip size; works a long way with the two early shotgun upgrades + shield piercing, especially if you use an ammo power. Also great for soldiers who like to sprint close, put up AR and blast in the face (kills any regular mob). My favorite.

Eviscerator - great shotgun, can be used from behind cover efficiently because of better accuracy. Becomes the #1 shotgun for a vanguard when 1 shot + 1 melee from Katana doesn't kill regular mobs anymore. However, damage per clip leaves something to desire.

Claymore - too slow unless you exploit the reload trick which I don't.

Well said as always.

Though I do like the scimitar. I have found use for it with a run & gun play style. The high fire rate, and larger thermal capacity allow for some unorthodox strategy I think.

[cruc1al]

swk3000 wrote...

I have no build. All I know about building a Vanguard is to max Charge first, then the passive, then whatever else I happen to want. That's all anyone is willing to say; other than that, they point me at a thread that has level 30 builds, but no tactics, and it's the tactics that are getting me killed.

Aggressive vanguard tactics basically boil down to this:

1. find a target on the periphery of the enemy squad, so that after a kill it's easy to get to cover
2. charge, shotgun, melee (if it's a tougher opponent might have to repeat this)
3. repeat

As you get better at doing that, you can easily charge at two enemies and take them down with a series of shotgun blasts and melees. And you don't even need heavy charge for that, level 3 works a long way. I'd actually advocate getting both charge and passive to level 3 before specializing, because the cooldown time is so important.

Modifié par cruc1al, 02 mai 2010 - 04:31 .

[swk3000]

cruc1al wrote...

swk3000 wrote...

I have no build. All I know about building a Vanguard is to max Charge first, then the passive, then whatever else I happen to want. That's all anyone is willing to say; other than that, they point me at a thread that has level 30 builds, but no tactics, and it's the tactics that are getting me killed.

Aggressive vanguard tactics basically boil down to this:

1. find a target on the periphery of the enemy squad, so that after a kill it's easy to get to cover
2. charge, shotgun, melee (if it's a tougher opponent might have to repeat this)
3. repeat

As you get better at doing that, you can easily charge at two enemies and take them down with a series of shotgun blasts and melees. And you don't even need heavy charge for that, level 3 works a long way. I'd actually advocate getting both charge and passive to level 3 before specializing, because the cooldown time is so important.

Well, I've started another Vanguard to see if I can get any better at it. As I imported a level 59 ME1 character, I started at Level 3. I've got Charge at Level 2, and I'll put one of my remaining points into Assault Mastery. From there, I'll keep both of them evened out.

I'm thinking Heavy Charge and Champion for the evolutions. Any input?

[DaVanguard]

swk3000 wrote...

I have no build. All I know about building a Vanguard is to max Charge first, then the passive, then whatever else I happen to want. That's all anyone is willing to say; other than that, they point me at a thread that has level 30 builds, but no tactics, and it's the tactics that are getting me killed.

those are good

Modifié par DaVanguard, 02 mai 2010 - 04:42 .

[Hahren]

swk3000 wrote...

I have no build. All I know about building a Vanguard is to max Charge first, then the passive, then whatever else I happen to want. That's all anyone is willing to say; other than that, they point me at a thread that has level 30 builds, but no tactics, and it's the tactics that are getting me killed.

I know exactly what you mean!!! 

The first portion of the game before Horizon can be the toughest on the vanguard. You lack upgrades, and most enemies will tear you to peices right after a poorly executed charge. What you can do is just tough it out, and play like a weak adept. Use your pistol on targets at longer ranges, and against armor. Use the SMG for pretty much anything else.

Try not to charge 3+ enemies at once. In the low levels you can safely handle 2, ideally with one already in the red. Trust me after about 2 recruitment missions, and a couple upgrades it does get easier. Once you get the shield damage upgrade for shotguns Blue Sun mercs can go down very quickly. Until then you actually have to play with some patience, use your squad heavily, and lean on weapons other than the shotgun.

I happen to like either rank 1 slam, or rank 1 pull early for extra CC I can cast from cover. They also set up warp explosions which I find very useful trying to thin the herd.

[swk3000]

Any suggestion on a Bonus Power? I'm running through Lazarus Station with Energy Drain, which inflicts damage, but doesn't restore my barrier.

[Hahren]

swk3000 wrote...

cruc1al wrote...

swk3000 wrote...

I have no build. All I know about building a Vanguard is to max Charge first, then the passive, then whatever else I happen to want. That's all anyone is willing to say; other than that, they point me at a thread that has level 30 builds, but no tactics, and it's the tactics that are getting me killed.

Aggressive vanguard tactics basically boil down to this:

1. find a target on the periphery of the enemy squad, so that after a kill it's easy to get to cover
2. charge, shotgun, melee (if it's a tougher opponent might have to repeat this)
3. repeat

As you get better at doing that, you can easily charge at two enemies and take them down with a series of shotgun blasts and melees. And you don't even need heavy charge for that, level 3 works a long way. I'd actually advocate getting both charge and passive to level 3 before specializing, because the cooldown time is so important.

Well, I've started another Vanguard to see if I can get any better at it. As I imported a level 59 ME1 character, I started at Level 3. I've got Charge at Level 2, and I'll put one of my remaining points into Assault Mastery. From there, I'll keep both of them evened out.

I'm thinking Heavy Charge and Champion for the evolutions. Any input?

Heavy Charge is a must. I happen to like Destroyer early on, and change to Champion later. The cooldown boost that Champ gives is small, and charging isn't always safe early on anyway. With Destroyer you get a minor boost to weapon damage which I lean on heavily in the early game, and 15% power damage which works for incendiary ammo.

I do play conservatively with charge early, and get more aggressive as I get more upgrades. Champion works very well for aggressive vanguards, and later on I appreciate the power duration bonus (cryo ammo, pull's CC, even barrier) over power damage.

[DaVanguard]

try reave

[Hahren]

swk3000 wrote...

Any suggestion on a Bonus Power? I'm running through Lazarus Station with Energy Drain, which inflicts damage, but doesn't restore my barrier.

I happen to like barrier or slam. Slam lets me skip shockwave to unlock pull until later. I tend to use cover a lot before setting up charge so slam lets me feel like I contribute more than just shooting. Barrier isn't horrible either and benefits from all the biotic enhancements you'll be after.

You could also go for reave, but I don't recommend it. No matter what you choose don't worry about investing heavily into a bonus power. You can take them or leave them. Vanguards have a lot of good toys on thier own.

[swk3000]

I don't know. I've heard a lot about how it's actually overpowered, so I'm reluctant to take it.



I think I'll start a new thread on the Bonus Power subject, as I've derailed this one far enough.