52 réponses à ce sujet

[Chalkstix]

So I bought the DLC where you can come back to Ostagard and the DLC with the Grey Warden Keep and I was disappointed. Had it been a content patch I could play because I already purchased the game, I would have thought it was a few cool extra quests but paying money for it was a waste of bucks.

An expansion pack is a whole other book so to say - a new part of the series. Whereas the DLC is just a footnote or perhaps a small chapter. I'd just like to warn anyone who consider buying the DLC not to do it. Beat the game first and if you don't know what to spend your money on and like the game, buy the expansion.

[searanox]

The DLC packs aren't full expansions and aren't advertised as such. While value is relative, the $7 price might be a bit steep for what comes out to about an hour or so of gameplay and some cool items. The core Dragon Age experience is good enough without the DLC, but at the same I find the DLC gives me a few more hours per replay and serves as a nice diversion from the main quest line. It's really all about how much you care about value for your money, and I won't begrudge anyone for not picking the DLC up.

Awakening is a full-sized expansion pack, and pretty good for that matter, but the $40 asking price is a bit high as well. Grab it for $30 or less and I'd say you're good to go... just wait for a patch before playing it, because it's currently so riddled with bugs that I'd consider it unplayable.

That said, yes, the goal of producing DLC is to make money.  It capitalises on a devoted install base, it allows developers to reuse art and technology, it costs nothing to distribute, and most importantly, it's cheap and quick to create (relative to a full-sized game), so there's far less risk and quite a bit of reward - even if DLC sells around 10-15% the rate of the full game, a decent profit can be made.  Games are getting more expensive to produce, with only a few ever making much more than they cost to produce.  While I'd prefer proper patches and full-sized experiences to DLC, I do find that DLCs can be both fun on their own and in the context of the game as a whole.

For the record, I've bought much of BioWare's Dragon Age DLC.  I'm currently refusing to buy any of EA's products, BioWare-made or otherwise, including both DLC and retail games, because I'm annoyed at the sorry state at which BioWare's recent products have been released in, as well as their abysmal community relations over the last six months or so.  If you want to send a message, it's easy: don't buy, or, ideally, spend your money on a competitor's product instead.

Modifié par searanox, 03 mai 2010 - 07:11 .

[Zy-El]

Buy beware! That applies to anything you buy these days. If you had investigated the DLC before purchasing, perhaps you would not have been as disappointed. Do some research on the forums. It's your own fault if you buy anything sight unseen and are disappointed.

[Aulis Vaara]

I bought the Download Content really only as a "this is part of the game, and the game is definitely worth the 65 euros total I payed for it."

In that light, I think it's totally worth it, but as you said, if you look at them individually, they don't seem that great. However, only an hour of playtime is a plain lie. Let's not forget that you should play through it multiple times with multiple characters to get all the content (much like in Dragon Age itself). The Stone Prisoner definitely has a huge content bonus. The Wardens' Keep was very awesome and definitely worth it. In fact, only Return To Ostagar was somewhat less interesting, and had better been part of the game itself.

The only thing I truly find irritating about the DLC is that when loading a game, it frequently nags about the save game having download content and I have to be logged in to play it... while I'm already logged in. Honestly Bioware (and every other game company out there) stop annoying your genuine customers in this way. People who pirate games don't have to insert a dvd into their dvd-drive, nor do they have to be online to play, so why do we have to?

Modifié par Aulis Vaara, 03 mai 2010 - 07:23 .

[searanox]

Aulis Vaara wrote...

The only thing I truly find irritating about the DLC is that when loading a game, it frequently nags about the save game having download content and I have to be logged in to play it... while I'm already logged in. Honestly Bioware (and every other game company out there) stop annoying your genuine customers in this way. People who pirate games don't have to insert a dvd into their dvd-drive, nor do they have to be online to play, so why do we have to?

If you're running under Vista or Windows 7, make sure you're playing as an admin, otherwise the game can't start the DAUpdater service to verify your DLC.  Also, wait a second after starting before you load your save file, because it takes a moment for the game to connect.

In any case, you can play while offline.  Just log out and it'll work fine.  You won't be able to upload your achievements/characters/etc. that way, though.

[wanderon]

Different strokes - I bought all the DLC as well as the expansion and have not been disappointed at all - I certainly don't begrudge the company making a profit for their work on DLC nor expect them to provide the resources required to produce it for free - especially in this current world economy where almost every enterprise out there is expected to do more with less.



I agree that people should vote with their wallet and I'll continue to vote with my wallet for more DLC by purchasing any that comes out. I think it's a great way to add additional interesting official content to my game in between larger expansions and I think it's also a great way to help fund the ongoing support needed for games like this.

[AlanC9]

Sure, DLC's a money machine. So's the whole game; Bio is a business, after all. The question is whether you find the DLC worth it. I haven't so far, though I expect I'll break down and pick them up someday.

[Zy-El]

I've bought all the DLC (except the Pranks tho am reconsidering) and have enjoyed them. Just the thought of Leliana clogging about in those ugly Ferelden boots makes my Dalish PC snicker!

[Aulis Vaara]

searanox wrote...

In any case, you can play while offline.  Just log out and it'll work fine.  You won't be able to upload your achievements/characters/etc. that way, though.

In the previous paragraph you just said how I had to be patient for my game to connect online to 'verify' the download content. So no, I can't play if I'm not online... Should my internet ever be out for a day, I can't play unless I start a new game.

[BigBad]

I've had the same problem, where I fire up the game and try to resume from my last save (with DLC enabled) and it tells me I have to be logged in. I usually give it about 5 seconds and it works fine, so I don't mind if the daupdater isn't quite as fast as me. On the other hand, when my internet went down for a weekend, I had absolutely no problems loading or playing any of my savegames despite having authorization-required DLC enabled on all of them.

[Merci357]

Aulis Vaara wrote...

searanox wrote...

In any case, you can play while offline.  Just log out and it'll work fine.  You won't be able to upload your achievements/characters/etc. that way, though.

In the previous paragraph you just said how I had to be patient for my game to connect online to 'verify' the download content. So no, I can't play if I'm not online... Should my internet ever be out for a day, I can't play unless I start a new game.

Uhm, no. The DLC just needs to be authorised once. After that, you can play offline just fine. This additional check only happens if you have an active internet connection at the time you start the game. If you don't, or don't log in with your account, you can still play.

[Frogman1975]

IDK. There are a few possible reactions to PC pirates and second-hand console game sales. Either institute crazy DRM that limits installs, requires constant internet connections, and otherwise makes your game a hassle to play/potentially unplayable. Or charge for DLC to make up for revenue lost to pirates/second hand sales and institute things like ME2's Cerberus network to encourage new game sales.

While I really wish more of the add-on DLC for Dragon Age was free for people who purchased the game new, like the Cerberus network stuff for ME2; I still much prefer them doing this as a way to make a few extra bucks off second hand console game sales rather than instituting some sort of draconian DRM (as some folks are considering doing with console games and already do with PC games).

I mean, at least with this system, you have the option of getting a little extra game play IF YOU WANT (or you can choose to just keep playing the base game).

Modifié par Frogman1975, 04 mai 2010 - 05:48 .

[Frogman1975]

Aulis Vaara wrote...

searanox wrote...

In any case, you can play while offline.  Just log out and it'll work fine.  You won't be able to upload your achievements/characters/etc. that way, though.

In the previous paragraph you just said how I had to be patient for my game to connect online to 'verify' the download content. So no, I can't play if I'm not online... Should my internet ever be out for a day, I can't play unless I start a new game.

Once you've downloaded content and have it in game, you don't have to be online. I play on a PC, so I'm almost always online anyway. But I know that I've not been connected before, and I've still had access to all of my content.

This isn't Ubisoft.

Bio doesn't require a constant connection.

[nikki191]

new weapons and items released as dlc dont increase replayability and longevity of an rpg.. it does however work for games like ship simulator 2008 which they release dlc for once a week. for something like mass effect and dragon age they would be better off focusing on quest and mission dlc. the kassumi dlc is a good example of the route to go and so is the stone prisoner or return to ostagar.



if you want to talk about money grabbing dlc you have to look no further than what EA have done with the sims 3. yes you too can buy a chair or a hairstyle

[CybAnt1]

I don't think DlC are intrinsically a ripoff. The problem is, if you love the game and want to replay it, then DlC can add to its replayability. It gives you one more place to visit, a couple more things "to do", on your next replay.



I look at it this way. Sequels are new improved dining experiences. Expansions are new meals. And DlC are snacks along the way while you're waiting for the other two. The first two can take many months to a few years to work on. The snacks can be whipped out faster and tide you over while you wait.



Personally, I view DlC that don't add content (and by content I mean, actual areas, new quests, new things to do, not just new items like horsie armor or new "pranks" to play on companions) as ripoffs, though.

[chaos789]

I like the DLC's and expansion, the Add On's add a little side story, plus some new items and sometimes abilities. before I even bought it I was expecting about an hour of gameplay, I got what I was expecting. plus they add an extra hour to the game, so 3 Add On's is an extra 3 hours, and if you keep buying them and the expansion, soon the game becomes very long.

[Chalkstix]

AlanC9 wrote...

Sure, DLC's a money machine. So's the whole game; Bio is a business, after all. The question is whether you find the DLC worth it. I haven't so far, though I expect I'll break down and pick them up someday.

Call me sentimental, but I was hoping some game developers were making games because they like to and because they want to make gamers happy. Especially Dragon Age, which in my opinion is a much better sequel to the good old Baldur's Gate RPG's than Neverwinter Nights ever was.
Dragon Age: Origin presents us with a whole new world with codex entries (yes, someone has been writing all that stuff whether you read it or not!), history, characters, geography, etc etc. and I feel the core game is a well-made RPG and I especially love the character dialogues when they talk to each other on the road.

My conclusion is that not all games are made purely for the love of bucks and I'd hope people care for more than just your bucks.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

I love MMO kids who think their content patches are free. So adorable. :-) You always pay for what you get... one way or another. TANSTAAFL.

[13Dannyboy13]

Chalkstix wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Sure, DLC's a money machine. So's the whole game; Bio is a business, after all. The question is whether you find the DLC worth it. I haven't so far, though I expect I'll break down and pick them up someday.

Call me sentimental, but I was hoping some game developers were making games because they like to and because they want to make gamers happy. Especially Dragon Age, which in my opinion is a much better sequel to the good old Baldur's Gate RPG's than Neverwinter Nights ever was.
Dragon Age: Origin presents us with a whole new world with codex entries (yes, someone has been writing all that stuff whether you read it or not!), history, characters, geography, etc etc. and I feel the core game is a well-made RPG and I especially love the character dialogues when they talk to each other on the road.

My conclusion is that not all games are made purely for the love of bucks and I'd hope people care for more than just your bucks.

EA is in it for the money, end of story, they care nothing about games, only the money they can make from them. Everything is rushed out the door as fast as possible, then it's on to the next game.
Awakenings is a perfect example of that, there are so many bugs in it, many carried over from origins, I mean they didn't even take the time to include simple fixes that have been out for months. I agree that some DLC are simply moneygrabs like the feastday thing, but some are ok, it's really relative to the person buying it. The prices are a bit high, but since so many people buy them, I doubt they'll get any cheaper. The thing that bothers me is that they spend all their time trying to make money off of us and none actually supporting the game, which is the main reason I didn't buy the expansion.

[wanderon]

Chalkstix wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Sure, DLC's a money machine. So's the whole game; Bio is a business, after all. The question is whether you find the DLC worth it. I haven't so far, though I expect I'll break down and pick them up someday.

Call me sentimental, but I was hoping some game developers were making games because they like to and because they want to make gamers happy. Especially Dragon Age, which in my opinion is a much better sequel to the good old Baldur's Gate RPG's than Neverwinter Nights ever was.
Dragon Age: Origin presents us with a whole new world with codex entries (yes, someone has been writing all that stuff whether you read it or not!), history, characters, geography, etc etc. and I feel the core game is a well-made RPG and I especially love the character dialogues when they talk to each other on the road.

My conclusion is that not all games are made purely for the love of bucks and I'd hope people care for more than just your bucks.

Sentimental is probably not the right word - confused might be a better one...

1) As far as I know the only non-profit gaming companies out there are the individuals and groups of builders who typically make free mods for games that are produced by companies who make games for profit. It is more or less a hobby for them. Other possible non-profit game builders might be students or other IT trained folks trying to break into the game developing business by making their own game (and offering it free on the internet perhaps) in hopes someone will notice how skilled and clever they are and hire them to make games for profit (so they can get paid to do what they love).

2) "For profit" game developers ( Bioware, Obsidian, Bethesda, etc)  create games for profit but just becuase that is so does not preclude them from loving what they do and wanting to do a good job any more than a mechanic cannot love working on cars or a salesman can't care about his clients or a doctor can't care about his patients or a lawyer....well forget about the lawyers...

The main difference between the hobbyist and the "for profit" developer is the hobbyist can spend as much time/money/resources as he wants to use of his own personal wealth to make just the game he wants (if his wife/partner will allow him to) since he has no intention of making a direct profit on his project (but if it leads him to getting hired by a cool company like Bioware so he can get PAID to make kewl games it might pay him back eventually)

The "for profit" developer on the other hand has to plan his project in such a way that in the end he makes enough profit to cover all the little necessities like equipment cost, salaries, benefits, mortgage/rents,internet access, taxes, business lisences, general supplies (copy paper, CDs, flash drives, toilet paper), janitorial services, landscaping, donations to local charities, stamps, trips to game conventions, art supplies, promotional products, utilities, copies of the competitions games, funding for an online social network like this one, etc.etc.etc.

3) NWN was never intended to be a sequel to the BG series -  it was a totally different concept altogether and was supposed to be the next big step in bringing PnP style D&D gaming to the computer - more focused on MP play and allowing people to create their own adventures with the toolset that they and a few of their freinds could then play online together much like a group sitting around a table with a DM. 

In the end game companies like Bioware are no more motivated by profit only than any other for profit company altho it is certainly in vogue today to claim that all for profit companies want nothing more than to milk the consumer of every last dime even tho the reality is probably only a small percentage of companies today fit that extreme example and those that do so rarely last.

[13Dannyboy13]

wanderon wrote...
In the end game companies like Bioware are no more motivated by profit only than any other for profit company altho it is certainly in vogue today to claim that all for profit companies want nothing more than to milk the consumer of every last dime even tho the reality is probably only a small percentage of companies today fit that extreme example and those that do so rarely last.

Since EA took them over I really wonder about that. I mean in six months they've done nothing to address the staggering amount of bugs, instead focusing on DLC and marketing. There's no problems with making profits, but when the games coming out aren't even being supported you have to wonder if anything but profits mean something to them.
Sadly EA is known for being only about profits and not about support, which has now become Bioware's focus as well since they answer to EA, I'm sure lots of people at Bioware want to be able to fix this game, but EA has them doing other things like DA2,ME3,ToR, so there's no one left to actually fix this game. The only time we hear anything from the devs is usually around the same time that more DLC is coming, or they want our votes for a contest, not once in over six months has it been to announce that there's a fix for the game. Most of the work has even been done for them by the modding community, yet they release an expansion that has every bug that origins has, even the dex bug which is a very small tweak to fix. Now more DLC on the 18th and no word on any fixes, their actions really make me wonder if they care about anything but profits, I mean look at ME2, they just released a pack with pre-order armor in it on xbl, which is a slap in the face for those people who pre-ordered for the special armor.

[AlanC9]

Looks like wanderon did the heavy lifting on Chalkstix' post. The only thing I'll add is that there have been a lot of game companies that forgot this was a business. They're just not around any more.

@13Dannyboy13: what "staggering amount of bugs" are you talking about? Is this more console pain?

Modifié par AlanC9, 05 mai 2010 - 06:11 .

[traversc]

wanderon wrote...

Chalkstix wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Sure, DLC's a money machine. So's the whole game; Bio is a business, after all. The question is whether you find the DLC worth it. I haven't so far, though I expect I'll break down and pick them up someday.

Call me sentimental, but I was hoping some game developers were making games because they like to and because they want to make gamers happy. Especially Dragon Age, which in my opinion is a much better sequel to the good old Baldur's Gate RPG's than Neverwinter Nights ever was.
Dragon Age: Origin presents us with a whole new world with codex entries (yes, someone has been writing all that stuff whether you read it or not!), history, characters, geography, etc etc. and I feel the core game is a well-made RPG and I especially love the character dialogues when they talk to each other on the road.

My conclusion is that not all games are made purely for the love of bucks and I'd hope people care for more than just your bucks.

Sentimental is probably not the right word - confused might be a better one...

1) As far as I know the only non-profit gaming companies out there are the individuals and groups of builders who typically make free mods for games that are produced by companies who make games for profit. It is more or less a hobby for them. Other possible non-profit game builders might be students or other IT trained folks trying to break into the game developing business by making their own game (and offering it free on the internet perhaps) in hopes someone will notice how skilled and clever they are and hire them to make games for profit (so they can get paid to do what they love).

2) "For profit" game developers ( Bioware, Obsidian, Bethesda, etc)  create games for profit but just becuase that is so does not preclude them from loving what they do and wanting to do a good job any more than a mechanic cannot love working on cars or a salesman can't care about his clients or a doctor can't care about his patients or a lawyer....well forget about the lawyers...

^I agree with that.   I honestly don't think developers get into the gaming industry because they thing "ZOMG I"M GONNA MAKE IT BIG AND GET RICH QUICK."  Just because one works for profit does not mean one is completely driven
by profit. There are a few developers lurking and posting around to prove the point that it is not all JUST about money.  

But I disagree with your conclusion.  It's hard to imagine that game developers DON'T feel like complete sell-outs with some of the things being put out.  Examples: horse armor, Feastday Pranks.

[ObserverStatus]

Chalkstix wrote...

So I bought the DLC where you can come back to Ostagard and the DLC with the Grey Warden Keep and I was disappointed. Had it been a content patch I could play because I already purchased the game, I would have thought it was a few cool extra quests but paying money for it was a waste of bucks.

An expansion pack is a whole other book so to say - a new part of the series. Whereas the DLC is just a footnote or perhaps a small chapter. I'd just like to warn anyone who consider buying the DLC not to do it. Beat the game first and if you don't know what to spend your money on and like the game, buy the expansion.

You know what? DLC is nothing but a money machine, and an evil one for that matter.  It feeds on the money of gamers, and when it has grown strong enoguh it will feed on their blood as well.
This is DLC

Modifié par bobobo878, 05 mai 2010 - 07:06 .

[13Dannyboy13]

AlanC9 wrote...

Looks like wanderon did the heavy lifting on Chalkstix' post. The only thing I'll add is that there have been a lot of game companies that forgot this was a business. They're just not around any more.

@13Dannyboy13: what "staggering amount of bugs" are you talking about? Is this more console pain?

Save corruption, dex bug, endless loop in orzamaar (playing both sides), missing quests (Jowan) , missing quest rewards(shaperate),  buggy endings that also carry over to the expansion, and there are many other smaller bugs.