106 réponses à ce sujet

[ramdog7]

Nightfish103 wrote...

Yea, personally I felt Zaeed could have been better. He lacks the John McLane moments. To me, he just came across as a psycho and a liability. To be honest, I have no idea why he should be recruited at all. He's almost as unstable as Jack. No sensible commander would include either one on a team that will have to depend on each other in order to survive. But yea, that's just one overall problem I have with the ME2 cast. Because we need the "badass" stereotype characters as well as the goody-goody ones we have these unstable people that make no sense if you think about them for a few moments. Would you honestly trust these people with your life?

Your comment is invalid shepard has to make a group of the best of the best. he cant go to the alliance because they dont trust cerberus. along the way he gains all of their loyalty making them loyal to shepard and his cause

[ramdog7]

[quote]Lemonwizard wrote...

[quote]ramdog7 wrote...

[quote]Lemonwizard wrote...

[quote]ramdog7 wrote...

[quote]Lemonwizard wrote...

If your party members are dying you are clearly not killing enemies fast enough.[/quote]
NO[/quote]




YES

[/quote]
ummm NO. Garrus AI doesn't understand the diffrence between taking cover and being in the open[/quote]


All squadmates use the same AI. And the game gives you buttons to tell people where to go, they're very useful for any squadmate who's out in the open when they shouldn't be.
[/quote
No they dont Garrus Ai makes him stay back in order to snipe while jacks and grunts AI tells them to get up close and personal. 

[Lemonwizard]

It's the same AI program used by all squadmates, but takes into account weapon equipped and what powers you are capable of using and adapts tactics for that accordingly.

[Rzepik2]

Cool Guys Don't Look At Explosions.

Zaeed is pretty cool guy.

[Lemonwizard]

Rzepik2 wrote...

Cool Guys Don't Look At Explosions.
Zaeed is pretty cool guy.

eh gets revenge and doesn't afraid of anything?

[KalosCast]

Zaaed is just your grumpy old grandfather if he was good with a rifle.

[Zulu_DFA]

Lemonwizard wrote...

an uncanny valley-esque phenomenon in which a character accrues a hatedom simply because they have such a vocal fanbase,

^ ^ ^



The funny thing is that Zaeed is everything Tali isn't, and he isn't anything Tali is.

And in the first place, he earned his place in ME2 solely by the virtue of his character (in-game background, combat skills and a deal with TIM), while Tali has all the in-game reasons not to be on the crew (space gipsy, useless in combat, and hates Cerberus) but makes her way there by sheer metagame force of the vocal fanbase demand.

For one, Zaeed is my favorite squadmate in both ME1&2, but I'll be perfectly OK if he doesn't join Shepard in ME3, but runs a separate operation (that is, gets an epic cameo).

That said, I hear some girls find Zaeed's aft quite attractive...

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 03 mai 2010 - 07:37 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

Yeah in the character discussion group I was having a hard reason to figure out why Tali would be included on a Dossier because of her hatred of Cerberus. Zaeed on the other hand is paid for, makes sense. Beefs up the squad.



I went more into depth into this and then inadvertently started a flamewar between a couple of Tali fans and a Zaeed fan. Almost like they are diametrically opposed for some reason.

[Skilled Seeker]

Yep Zaeed has a lot of fangirls. Everytime the old fanthread crops up girls swoon over him. There are also a disturbing number of Zaeed rule 34s but lets not go there...

[Zaisha_temp]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

That said, I hear some girls find Zaeed aft quite attractive...

Suddenly, Garrus's remark about facial scars and Krogan women comes to mind....

[Lemonwizard]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Lemonwizard wrote...

an uncanny valley-esque phenomenon in which a character accrues a hatedom simply because they have such a vocal fanbase,

^ ^ ^



The funny thing is that Zaeed is everything Tali isn't, and he isn't anything Tali is.

And in the first place, he earned his place in ME2 solely by the virtue of his character (in-game background, combat skills and a deal with TIM), while Tali has all the in-game reasons not to be on the crew (space gipsy, useless in combat, and hates Cerberus) but makes her way there by sheer metagame force of the vocal fanbase demand.

For one, Zaeed is my favorite squadmate in both ME1&2, but I'll be perfectly OK if he doesn't join Shepard in ME3, but runs a separate operation (that is, gets an epic cameo).

That said, I hear some girls find Zaeed aft quite attractive...

I'm not comparing Tali with Zaeed, I'm saying it's the same general principle of people hating on a character simply because they're more popular than they logically ought to be. I originally believed that I disliked Zaeed for this reason and felt silly about myself so I started thinking about it more.

[Lemonwizard]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Yep Zaeed has a lot of fangirls. Everytime the old fanthread crops up girls swoon over him. There are also a disturbing number of Zaeed rule 34s but lets not go there...

Every character has some pretty nasty rule 34s. I don't normally run safe search because it can hide some pretty funny pictures just because they use offensive humor (which I don't typically have a huge problem with), but one time I was looking up Garrus screenshots and saw a picture that could completely ruined my day just with the thumbnail.

[Skilled Seeker]

Yep Garrus has some nasty ones as well as some of the best artistic ones.

[Zulu_DFA]

Lemonwizard wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Lemonwizard wrote...

an uncanny valley-esque phenomenon in which a character accrues a hatedom simply because they have such a vocal fanbase,

^ ^ ^



The funny thing is that Zaeed is everything Tali isn't, and he isn't anything Tali is.

And in the first place, he earned his place in ME2 solely by the virtue of his character (in-game background, combat skills and a deal with TIM), while Tali has all the in-game reasons not to be on the crew (space gipsy, useless in combat, and hates Cerberus) but makes her way there by sheer metagame force of the vocal fanbase demand.

For one, Zaeed is my favorite squadmate in both ME1&2, but I'll be perfectly OK if he doesn't join Shepard in ME3, but runs a separate operation (that is, gets an epic cameo).

That said, I hear some girls find Zaeed's aft quite attractive...

I'm not comparing Tali with Zaeed, I'm saying it's the same general principle of people hating on a character simply because they're more popular than they logically ought to be. I originally believed that I disliked Zaeed for this reason and felt silly about myself so I started thinking about it more.

You dislike Zaeed because he is a renegade.

I dislike Tali, because she got her Normandy-2 ticket for "metagame" reasons. She is a plot hole! For me anyway, because it was Udina who forced me to take her aboard in One and I denied her the Geth data access. And in Two she didn't even acknowledge that. I don't like plot holes.

[Lemonwizard]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

You dislike Zaeed because he is a renegade.

No, I dislike Zaeed because he's a blatantly copy/pasted gruff mercenary archetype, and unlike the other characters in this game who are blatantly copy/pasted archetypes, he doesn't ever do anything particularly cool to make him stand out.

[KOKitten]

For whatever reason, Bioware decided to create Zaeed and Kasumi as characters and then decided NOT to give them dialogue wheels. Since they apparently did care enough about their DLC characters to give them more character than say, a block of cheese, they needed to give us some way to gain insight into said characters without the use of the dialogue wheel.

In Zaeed’s case they gave him stories of his past missions. I thought this was pretty fitting since, according to his dossier, he is a veteran mercenary and one of the galaxy’s most renowned bounty hunters.
In Kasumi’s case they gave her tidbits of gossip about Shepard’s LI, other squadmates, and other happenings onboard the Normandy. I thought this was fitting for her since, according to her dossier, she is an infiltration expert.

Since there is no dialogue wheel, Shepard doesn’t have the chance to ask Zaeed questions such as “What did you do before signing on this mission?” like he does with Jacob. Instead, all he/she can do is listen to his stories to gather a back story for Zaeed. Some may call it “talking the talk.” I call it character development and, to a lesser degree, a poor idea of DLC implementation.

Likewise, in Kasumi’s case, her gossip is not supposed to show her as the galaxy’s nosiest neighbor who probably goes through your personal items but as someone who is able to find out obscure information without being detected.

I actually like both Zaeed and Kasumi better than some of the squadmates with dialogue wheels as I’ve listened to everything they have to say. Unless you are romancing some of the other squaddies, they really don’t have many conversations until they’re telling you they don’t have time to talk. Zaeed and Kasumi both have lots of information.

I also like Zaeed and Kasumi because they are both complex characters. They’re both flawed individuals. In Zaeed’s case you pretty much see the worst of him in his loyalty mission. He’s basically blinded by rage in that mission. If you bother to listen to his stories and take him with you on missions, though, you see a different side. His stories are telling you about fights against mercenaries, slavers, kidnapping rings and pirates. You find out he once saved an 8-year old girl from slavers and the events of Horizon trigger this memory. He’s disgusted by what happened to the kids on Pragia. He’s disgusted by Jacob’s father for what he did to his men and by Pitne For for betraying his friend (Niftu Cal) for money. After the Collector Ship he acknowledges that this fight is more important than anything else.

Kasumi is cute and nice but she’s not some Little Miss Innocent. She’s a thief. Take her to Tuchanka and she’ll admire a table full of knives and say that she’s going to come back to steal some of them. She’s not Robin Hood. But her devotion to Keiji is endearing, she rescued a child from slavery and her goal in obtaining the graybox is not profit, but to regain Keiji’s memories.

Flawed characters like these are more interesting to me than ones which are 100% good or 100% evil.

Modifié par KOKitten, 03 mai 2010 - 08:15 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Lemonwizard wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

You dislike Zaeed because he is a renegade.

No, I dislike Zaeed because he's a blatantly copy/pasted gruff mercenary archetype, and unlike the other characters in this game who are blatantly copy/pasted archetypes, he doesn't ever do anything particularly cool to make him stand out.

And Garrus is a blatantly copy/pasted robin-hoodish vigilante archetype, and Tali is a blatantly copy/pasted tech-savvy girl archetype, and both, like all other characters don't do anything particularly cool to make them stand out.

That said, I like Garrus somewhat.

[Lemonwizard]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Lemonwizard wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

You dislike Zaeed because he is a renegade.

No, I dislike Zaeed because he's a blatantly copy/pasted gruff mercenary archetype, and unlike the other characters in this game who are blatantly copy/pasted archetypes, he doesn't ever do anything particularly cool to make him stand out.

And Garrus is a blatantly copy/pasted robin-hoodish vigilante archetype, and Tali is a blatantly copy/pasted tech-savvy girl archetype, and both, like all other characters don't do anything particularly cool to make them stand out.

That said, I like Garrus somewhat.

What I like about Garrus is that he actually brings up the moral dilemma that is inherent with being a vigilante. He recognizes that even if you're killing criminals, murder is still murder, and it bothers him. This is not frequently addressed in works that feature vigilante characters. Not to suggest that it's a new idea, but I thought it was well executed in Mass Effect. Plus, he has lots and lots of really great lines throughout the game that make him second only to Mordin for entertainment factor in bringing him along, in my mind.

Modifié par Lemonwizard, 03 mai 2010 - 08:23 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Lemonwizard wrote...

What I like about Garrus is that he actually brings up the moral dilemma that is inherent with being a vigilante. He recognizes that even if you're killing criminals, murder is still murder, and it bothers him. This is not frequently addressed in works that feature vigilante characters. Not to suggest that it's a new idea, but I thought it was well executed in Mass Effect. Plus, and he has lots and lots of really great lines throughout the game that make him second only to Mordin for entertainment factor in bringing him along, in my mind.

Re: in bold.

Because most works that feature vigilante characters portray them operating in some lawless area. And "lawless" means there is no [civil] law there. And in an area with no [civil] law, there is no murder. Just killing. Eye for an eye. ****** for tat justice.

That's why Aria is so defiant of Archangel. There aren't any criminals on Omega.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 03 mai 2010 - 08:29 .

[enormousmoonboots]

Lemonwizard wrote...

Though this may be part of it, I have concluded it is not the main part. I've realized that the reason I don't like Zaeed is because he's a huge poser. He has all these stories of badass stuff that he does, all these posters adapting chuck norris jokes for him, etc....and what do we ever actually see him do? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. It's disappointing. Zaeed could be completely awesome if he ever actually did badass stuff instead of just talking about badass stuff. That's why Kasumi is such a better DLC character, she's a space ninja and we actually see her be a space ninja on a regular basis. She turns invisible and kills people. Zaeed is a less useful Garrus with a flashy grenade. Kasumi epic backflips onto a gunship and pwns it. Zaeed lights some pool of gasoline on fire and a good 70% of the badass in that scene is attributable to the cameraman. If I have played my cards right, nobody will bother reading far enough to see this sentence and I have the potential to start a flame war about 3 different characters with fanbases capable of being majorly irrational *cackles*. Zaeed in general is just underwhelming and can't walk his talk.

dohoho I see what you did there.

Eh, I'm also meh'd by Zaeed. He's got kind of a LOOK AT ALL THE PEOPLE I MURDERED AM I COOL YET? aura about him. Grimdark badass et cetera. Bo-ring.

Whenever I take Zaeed along in my squad he eats dirt almost immediately. I thought the +50% damage was pretty sweet but I never got a chance to see it since he was a bullet sponge. Garrus and I ended up shouldering most of the work on his loyalty mission because Zaeed spent most of it being dead. So I don't know what people are talking about with regards to his combat utility, unless you consider 'corpse' a skill.

[Lemonwizard]

+1 enormousmoonboots. I was beginning to lose faith in the bioware community that nobody got the topic yet.

[Zulu_DFA]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

So I don't know what people are talking about with regards to his combat utility, unless you consider 'corpse' a skill.

I don't know what you're talking about. On me, Zaeed is quite an asset gameplay-wise.

[Skilled Seeker]

So this is basically a Zaeed hate thread now? Zaeed isn't for everyone but don't call him a bad character. What you don't like about him others find are precisely why hes such a great character. And Zaeed has much more to say than Garrus and lots of great lines too.

[Lemonwizard]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

So this is basically a Zaeed hate thread now? Zaeed isn't for everyone but don't call him a bad character. What you don't like about him others find are precisely why hes such a great character. And Zaeed has much more to say than Garrus and lots of great lines too.

I fail to see how "set up to be awesome but never does anything remotely as cool as his backstory claims he is capable of" is a reason people will find him a great character.

[MrVincent]

Lemonwizard wrote...




 Zaeed is a less useful Garrus with a flashy grenade.

Your avatar is Garrus, your opinion is not valid.

Modifié par MrVincent, 03 mai 2010 - 08:42 .