106 réponses à ce sujet

[enormousmoonboots]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

enormousmoonboots wrote...

So I don't know what people are talking about with regards to his combat utility, unless you consider 'corpse' a skill.

I don't know what you're talking about. On me, Zaeed is quite an asset gameplay-wise.

I guess the AI roulette just came up roses in your case, then. I don't think I've ever had him stay standing for an entire mission, not even on Normal.

[Zulu_DFA]

Lemonwizard wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

So this is basically a Zaeed hate thread now? Zaeed isn't for everyone but don't call him a bad character. What you don't like about him others find are precisely why hes such a great character. And Zaeed has much more to say than Garrus and lots of great lines too.

I fail to see how "set up to be awesome but never does anything remotely as cool as his backstory claims he is capable of" is a reason people will find him a great character.

Blowing up that refinary entrance was pretty cool. It even made *my* Shepard uneasy, and asking Zaeed "WTF're you doin', man?"

Later on, *my* Shepard repeated the trick with some talkative krogans on Tuchanka.

For the rest of the mission Zaeed was pretty much doing what he was told to by *my Shepard*. Mostly setting people on fire with his Inferno grenades.

[Lemonwizard]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Lemonwizard wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

So this is basically a Zaeed hate thread now? Zaeed isn't for everyone but don't call him a bad character. What you don't like about him others find are precisely why hes such a great character. And Zaeed has much more to say than Garrus and lots of great lines too.

I fail to see how "set up to be awesome but never does anything remotely as cool as his backstory claims he is capable of" is a reason people will find him a great character.

Blowing up that refinary entrance was pretty cool. It even made *my* Shepard uneasy, and asking Zaeed "WTF're you doin', man?"

Later on, *my* Shepard repeated the trick with some talkative krogans on Tuchanka.

For the rest of the mission Zaeed was pretty much doing what he was told to by *my Shepard*. Mostly setting people on fire with his Inferno grenades.

Oh sure, that sort of thing is exactly the kind of "Gate? Forget that garbage!" I'd expect from Zaeed with his backstory. That said, the sheer amount of badass stuff he's purportedly done in his past sets him up as though he's going to be curb stomping fools and blowing up battle ships left and right when he's on your team. It's not his actual actions, it's the disappointment that ruins him for me.

[Skilled Seeker]

Lemonwizard wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

So this is basically a Zaeed hate thread now? Zaeed isn't for everyone but don't call him a bad character. What you don't like about him others find are precisely why hes such a great character. And Zaeed has much more to say than Garrus and lots of great lines too.

I fail to see how "set up to be awesome but never does anything remotely as cool as his backstory claims he is capable of" is a reason people will find him a great character.

At what stage in his introduction and loyalty mission does Zaeed not use up an opportunity to be 'cool'? In fact I thought the devs almost overdid it to the point of being cheesy especially with the 'cool men don't look at explosions'.

The whole premise of this thread is ridiculous anyway. Obvious troll is obvious.

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 03 mai 2010 - 09:07 .

[Lemonwizard]

MrVincent wrote...

Lemonwizard wrote...




 Zaeed is a less useful Garrus with a flashy grenade.

Your avatar is Garrus, your opinion is not valid.

That's not even talking about who I think is cooler. I'd take overload over inferno grenade any day of the week.

[Apollo Rising]

Lemonwizard wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

You dislike Zaeed because he is a renegade.

No, I dislike Zaeed because he's a blatantly copy/pasted gruff mercenary archetype, and unlike the other characters in this game who are blatantly copy/pasted archetypes, he doesn't ever do anything particularly cool to make him stand out.

Dude are you talking about "cut scene cool" because if you are thats just silly. Kasumi jumping around a gunship like Spiderman on crack was so out of place in the Mass Effect universe I just shook my head...I still love her though but the cutscene was a little over the top.Zaeed's cutscene though was bad ass to the extreme.
Zaeed is a powerhouse in my squad,equip him with the mantis and watch the bodys hit the floor. I love Garrus as much as anyone else but the only reason I use him is for his one liners...he was squishy in the first game and he's just as squishy in this one. It seems like G goes out of his way to die. And yes I play on Insanity and yes I have played my fair share of shooters so dont even come at me with the "you're doing something wrong if your teamates are dieing".

[janeym27]

I always have to wonder if sometimes the game just randomly decides to
make some squaddies work better and some squaddies fail for different
people. Zaeed as a party member for me ALWAYS dies. Lots. Yet for other
people he is apparently a tank. Yet Thane seems to never fall in my PTs,
but I've heard other players complain he is too killable to take as a
regular party member (for example).

I get why people like Zaeed, but I've never been able to get excited by him. Possibly because I still
hold a grudge agiant him for dying on my first O-4 run. lol

The man is a badass (maybe was a badass). There are no two ways about it (based on what he says).
However, he's also a colossal jerk and arrogant mofo, and totally
reckless. (I've seen endless debates about the 'morality' of his LM,
remember it was him deciding to shoot the pipes in the first place that
made it a 'save innocents/take revenge choice in the 1st place.) Add to
that, he seems to spend most of his time living in his memories of his
past glory days. (I wish we could just have a conversation!)

I guess to each their own. It's interesting though, because he's one of
the few characters I hardly ever see a lot of dislike for, and yet he's
pretty much the only one I can happily do a PT without recruiting.
Subjectivity. Go fig.


Edit: Ah 'AI roulette as moonboots puts it. Gotcha.@Apollo Rising, Garrus in my PTs is significantly less 'squishy' than Zaeed. Even with the refusal to get behind cover. 

Edit edit: My formatting is messed tonight.
Also, I've heard the 'blowing the door was the only way in' line, and have yet to see the evidence. Guess that is the benefit of personal headcannon. And subjectivity. FTW.

Modifié par janeym27, 03 mai 2010 - 09:36 .

[Skilled Seeker]

For the last time Zaeed blew the pipes because it was the only way into the refinery if they were going to catch up with Vido in time. It was an ingenious move that should be praised.

[Apollo Rising]

Lemonwizard wrote...

MrVincent wrote...

Lemonwizard wrote...




 Zaeed is a less useful Garrus with a flashy grenade.

Your avatar is Garrus, your opinion is not valid.

That's not even talking about who I think is cooler. I'd take overload over inferno grenade any day of the week.

Inferno grenade burns through armor and health while overload takes out shields and incapcitates your enemys weapon for a few micro seconds. I see a couple krogans and vorcha coming my way Inferno grenade drops them dead in their  tracks....overload,not so much. Very useful in my opinion.

[Lemonwizard]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

For the last time Zaeed blew the pipes because it was the only way into the refinery if they were going to catch up with Vido in time. It was an ingenious move that should be praised.

You know what's fun about physics is apparently it only applies in fiction when it's convenient. I heard rational people in real life expect that hitting a valve until it breaks will make a door 30 feet away explode.

[Lemonwizard]

Apollo Rising wrote...

Lemonwizard wrote...

MrVincent wrote...

Lemonwizard wrote...




 Zaeed is a less useful Garrus with a flashy grenade.

Your avatar is Garrus, your opinion is not valid.

That's not even talking about who I think is cooler. I'd take overload over inferno grenade any day of the week.

Inferno grenade burns through armor and health while overload takes out shields and incapcitates your enemys weapon for a few micro seconds. I see a couple krogans and vorcha coming my way Inferno grenade drops them dead in their  tracks....overload,not so much. Very useful in my opinion.

Overload is a stun on synthetics, and a damn useful one if you get area overload. Compared to inferno grenade which just does damage, and doesn't even do that much more than normal incinerate. And, while this is more a function of me playing a soldier who uses snipers 80% of the time and has armor piercing ammo up than a general game thing, armor is the easiest defense to breach for me by far.



That said, naturally inferno grenade is better than overload on armored enemies where overload is better on shielded ones. But armor piercing ammo is much better than disruptor ammo so Garrus works well in both situations.

[enormousmoonboots]

janeym27 wrote...

I always have to wonder if sometimes the
game just randomly decides to make some squaddies work better and
some squaddies fail for different people. Zaeed as a party member
for me ALWAYS dies. Lots. Yet for other
people he is apparently a
tank. Yet Thane seems to never fall in my PTs, but I've heard other
players complain he is too killable to take as a regular party
member (for example).

We must have gotten the same copy of the game, because Thane is a BEAST for me. He died like, twice on my Insanity run (direct hits from a Scion and Praetorian).

Skilled Seeker wrote...

For the last time Zaeed blew the pipes because it was the only way into the refinery if they were going to catch up with Vido in time. It was an ingenious move that should be praised.

I believe that at that point, Shepard's goal is still to rescue the workers. It's a goddamn stupid move in that case. You don't get the whole of the Vido revenge spiel until...well, pretty much about that point. Zaeed talks about it by the waterfalls, but you don't realize that everything he said to you before that was a lie to get you to help him kill Vido. The impression is that rescuing the workers is still a secondary goal until he starts lighting things on fire.

[KOKitten]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

I guess the AI roulette just came up roses in your case, then. I don't think I've ever had him stay standing for an entire mission, not even on Normal.

I guess I win on AI roulette consistently with him then because he's always a tank in my games. 

On my Zaeed + Garrus playthrough their theme song should have been Drowning Pool's "Bodies."  A lot of times I'd find myself sitting back, directing them and watching the carnage.

Zaeed + Grunt playthrough was pure adrenaline.  Zaeed + Kasumi playthrough made me forgot about most of the rest of my squad.  Flashbang Grenade + Inferno Grenade = DLC win.  Knock them down, Burn them up. 

Garrus isn't an angel in any of my games.  I guess didn't play Paragon with him in ME1 because I agreed with his views on catching Dr. Heart and tracking down Saren.  So I guess in ME2 I never got any of his dialogue which tells me that he feels killing criminals is still murder.  He tells me that he learned from the best and that he knows I'd understand what he did and what he needs to do. 

That's why I like my ME2 crew.  Each one of them has nobility and each has a side which isn't quite so noble.  Even my Shepards.  Especially my Shepards.

[enormousmoonboots]

I really want to like Grunt but he keeps dying for me! I just don't understand it, even with the Claymore, vitality upgrades and 55 health regenerating per second he dropped as much as Garrus did, maybe more. On Normal! Conversely, Legion and Thane are untouchable. The AI just hates me...

[Sailears]

KOKitten wrote...
I actually like both Zaeed and Kasumi better than some of the squadmates with dialogue wheels as I’ve listened to everything they have to say.

Same here. Initially I ignored Zaeed and only took him on missions because I liked evenly rotating the squad for each one to have roughly equal game time. Now these two DLC characters are my preferred choice in a lot of occasions, not only for combat skills, but for their characters as well.

Apollo Rising wrote...

Lemonwizard wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
You dislike Zaeed because he is a renegade.

No,
I dislike Zaeed because he's a blatantly copy/pasted gruff mercenary
archetype, and unlike the other characters in this game who are
blatantly copy/pasted archetypes, he doesn't ever do anything
particularly cool to make him stand out.

Dude are you
talking about "cut scene cool" because if you are thats just silly.
Kasumi jumping around a gunship like Spiderman on crack was so out of
place in the Mass Effect universe I just shook my head...I still love
her though but the cutscene was a little over the top.

Hah, yeah that cutscene made me cringe. Definitely way over the top.

[Zulu_DFA]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

I believe that at that point, Shepard's goal is still to rescue the workers.

Shepard's goal on Zorya is to do as Zaeed asks. Just like on the Migrant Fleet his goal is to do as Tali asks. I deliberately presented the Admirals with the evidence, but I'd never say that it was some universal moral law that commanded *my* Shepard to disregard Tali's wish, like "save the workers" proponents tend to.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 03 mai 2010 - 11:42 .

[Lemonwizard]

Just because right and wrong don't exist in actuality doesn't mean they don't exist conceptually.

[TwevOWNED]

If Zaeed was more "Leroy Jenkins" style I would like him.
He's average in my book right now.

Also, if Garrus has upgraded to Turian Survivor, he is much more likely to live.

[janeym27]

KDogg in AK wrote...

If Zaeed was more "Leroy Jenkins" style I would like him.
He's average in my book right now.

Also, if Garrus has upgraded to Turian Survivor, he is much more likely to live.

This FTW.

[Zulu_DFA]

Lemonwizard wrote...

Just because right and wrong don't exist in actuality doesn't mean they don't exist conceptually.

Just because right and wrong don't exist in actuality does mean that there are opposite and mutually exclusive concepts of them.

[Lemonwizard]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Lemonwizard wrote...

Just because right and wrong don't exist in actuality doesn't mean they don't exist conceptually.

Just because right and wrong don't exist in actuality does mean that there are opposite and mutually exclusive concepts of them.

I can't tell if you're restating my point in a way that makes a correct assertion with faulty logic or if you're making fun of me in a way too subtle for me to understand.



Thus I declare that you win this round. But I'll get you next time, Gadget, next time.....

[Tlazolteotl]

Well, irl absolutism vs relativism is a silly argument, 'cos either way morality is the act of assuming something something is right or wrong before giving all factors due consideration.

That is, it's a crutch for the stupid.

In mass effect, however ... the only wrong actions are the ones that result in "critical mission failure." 'cos that means the galaxy is borked. So getting shot up in combat = wrong, while blowing up refinery workers = right.

[Lemonwizard]

Tlazolteotl wrote...

Well, irl absolutism vs relativism is a silly argument, 'cos either way morality is the act of assuming something something is right or wrong before giving all factors due consideration.
That is, it's a crutch for the stupid.
In mass effect, however ... the only wrong actions are the ones that result in "critical mission failure." 'cos that means the galaxy is borked. So getting shot up in combat = wrong, while blowing up refinery workers = right.

Morality is a construct of pragmatism. Such structure needs to exist in order for a society to function, and as such we give up our freedom to kill or steal so that we in turn will not be killed or stolen from. Things that are detrimental to society are declared "wrong" and things that are contributory to society are declared "right". These values are ingrained in children by their parents and go on from generation to generation.


It doesn't actually exist, but has proven itself to be useful to the preservation and advancement of civilization over the years, so I don't consider it a crutch for the stupid to go along with it.

[Tlazolteotl]

No, it's illegal to kill or steal. Pragmatism is when people choose not to kill or steal because the law will pwn them for it.

Morality is assuming killing is wrong, period. Sometimes people need killing.

[Lemonwizard]

The creation of morality as a social construct is the result of the entire society being pragmatic is what I meant.