544 réponses à ce sujet

[cruc1al]

I012345 wrote...

And can't you buy ME2 DLC directly through the XBOX Live interface even if you don't have the CN?

WTF are you talking about? The Cerberus network items are free to those who have access to Cerberus network. The only way you can have access to those items is to buy the CN access card, or buy the game new. Those who buy the CN access card, and those who buy the game new instead of second hand pay for the stuff in CN. Hence the stuff isn't free but paid for.

Modifié par cruc1al, 04 mai 2010 - 09:26 .

[javierabegazo]

I012345 wrote...

cruc1al wrote...


Dude, you don't get it.

If you don't buy the game new, you don't get the CN card. If you buy the game second hand, you have to pay extra for the CN card. The money they make from the second-hand buyers is what offsets the price of producing "free" DLC distributed through CN. Hence, CN isn't about free stuff, it's about stuff that those who buy the game second hand pay for. 

Oh! That's what's supposed to offset it? I didn't catch that because I didn't think that would be a huge market.  If I get the game second hand either I'm borrowing it from a friend because I'm not that interested in it or I'm too broke to buy the full game so I get it used right? So why would I in turn chuck up extra dough to get DLC? And can't you buy ME2 DLC directly through the XBOX Live interface even if you don't have the CN? So that would be yet another reason not to buy it if you got the game secondhand.  Or is that an uninformed way to look at it?

The USED Game market is absolutely massive, and non of the revenue generated from that goes to the developers and publishers of the game. The whole idea behind Pre order bonuses and as of late, the CN is to provide enough incentive to Purchasers to get the game brand new, thus funneling profits to the creators of the game instead of retail stores like Gamestop, with their ridiculous profit margins on trade-in and used game sales.  

BioWare isn't going to waste any sympathy on the people who are "too broke to buy the full game" and nor should they. They use resources to make a product, and hopefully reap enough of a profit to make that a career.

DLC isn't a requirement for any game. It is extraneous content that is used to enhance the existing game.

But either way in the end, I would gladly PAY money for DLC if the quality is like Kasumi and NOT like the Hammerhead or the silly Normandy Crash Pack

[javierabegazo]

cruc1al wrote...

I012345 wrote...

And can't you buy ME2 DLC directly through the XBOX Live interface even if you don't have the CN?

WTF are you talking about? The Cerberus network items are free to those who have access to Cerberus network. The only way you can have access to those items is to buy the CN access card, or buy the game new. Those who buy the CN access card, and those who buy the game new instead of second hand pay for the stuff in CN. Hence the stuff isn't free but paid for.

But why should a company make free DLC available for the customers who didn't bother to purchase the game new, THUS actually purchasing it FROM the Creator of the game in the first place ?

[GothamLord]

cruc1al wrote...

I012345 wrote...

And can't you buy ME2 DLC directly through the XBOX Live interface even if you don't have the CN?

WTF are you talking about? The Cerberus network items are free to those who have access to Cerberus network. The only way you can have access to those items is to buy the CN access card, or buy the game new. Those who buy the CN access card, and those who buy the game new instead of second hand pay for the stuff in CN. Hence the stuff isn't free but paid for.

You dont need the CN to purchase Kasumi and things like the alternative apperance pack.  This is what he's talking about. 

[cruc1al]

javierabegazo wrote...

cruc1al wrote...

I012345 wrote...

And can't you buy ME2 DLC directly through the XBOX Live interface even if you don't have the CN?

WTF are you talking about? The Cerberus network items are free to those who have access to Cerberus network. The only way you can have access to those items is to buy the CN access card, or buy the game new. Those who buy the CN access card, and those who buy the game new instead of second hand pay for the stuff in CN. Hence the stuff isn't free but paid for.

But why should a company make free DLC available for the customers who didn't bother to purchase the game new, THUS actually purchasing it FROM the Creator of the game in the first place ?

I'm not saying anything about should or shouldn't. I'm just saying that Cerberus network isn't free, and the quy I was quoting thought it's free.

[darknoon5]

MadLaughter wrote...

Zino,
The only way for people who own the inferno armor to get these new helms is to pay for something they already own. How do you justify that?

And the self-important idiot raving about how we're all whining over nothing can't respond to this.

[bjdbwea]

The Cerberus network is NOT free. Everyone paid for it, either as part of the new game, or by purchasing it separately. So far, it wasn't worth it.

[omnitremere]

The RPGenius wrote...

I012345 wrote...
But then doesn't that become an issue of trust? It seems like the theory a lot of people are presenting is that if we buy headset gear and amour the company will in turn decide not to release full quality expansion packs.  But to some degree that 's an issue of the integrity of the company right? So if you feel like Bioware has turned a leaf and doesn't give a damn about it's consumers than yeah you would expect them to flood the market with a couple of headsets once a month, rake in the cash, and not release any real quality DLC regarding this product.  I don't believe that's going to be the case.  They've promised to release large quality DLC for this game and I still believe they're going to deliver. 

Unless I'm wholly mistaken, THIS is the special DLC they were saying was coming soon last week.  So I trusted them on that issue, got excited, and found out that all it was was a hate, laser glasses, and armor I might already have.  Even putting aside that we've got evidence right here in the fact that certain customers are getting ripped off that implicit trust is not rewarded, I've ALREADY been shown that trusting them to deliver a quality add-on when they said they would is not necessarily well-placed.  And anyway, whether or not you trust the company to do the right thing, you're still encouraging them NOT to by purchasing a DLC without any concern about its merit or its integrity in regards to the customer.  Maybe you're trying to do one of those Bible things and expecting them to make the right decision while offering them the temptation and incentive not to, but if not, then you best hope your trust pays off, because you're giving them no reason not to betray it if they get paid either way.

I trust Bioware enough that I'm not going to be stupid and decide here and now over this one ME2 DLC mistake that I'm done with the company and boycotting their goods.  I don't trust them enough that I'm going to pretend that they aren't capable of bad decisions again when they've just made one.

And while I certainly agree with you that Bioware isn't financially strapped I also believe that if people don't buy DLC companies would stop making it.  And if you gave me a choice between alternate appearance packs/headgear and nothing then I'd rather just take what's being offered.  Especially when the price ranges from completely free to $2. 

The issue isn't not buying any DLC.  The issue is buying DLC that has substance, and DLC that doesn't actively screw over customers.  I've bought Kasumi's DLC.  I haven't bought this one, or the Alternate Appearances pack.  If Bioware were to base their entire marketing strategy on me, which would be awesome but unlikely, they wouldn't STOP making DLC.  They would just stop making the DLC that they can't sell--the pointless ones that don't significantly influence the game at all.  My not buying bad decisions does not mean that the good ones will never come about as a result; it actually encourages them.

But while they won't base everything on just me, they WILL be looking at the sales figures and reactions of the people at large.  Which is why people blindly buying, as you're advocating, is a bad idea regardless of how little it costs--because it tells them "Do this again!"  If a lot of people refuse to buy the stuff that's just not worth it and/or rips off customers, however, the message they get isn't "Don't do anything ever again."  It's "Bad idea; try a different one."

Which brings up my other point that it seems like people can't be satisfied.  How much free **** were you people expecting to get? I hear guys raving "The CN is completely useless" and "We didn't get anything for having the CN".  There's been 3 or 4 DLC packages released now that were completely free because of CN.  And we don't even know if that's the end of free stuff.  But people want to complain about TWO DOLLARS worth of DLC that's being charged.  And I agree with the poster who made the comment about small dollars being used to trick a consumer into thinking he's getting a good deal.  But I don't think that applies when several free items were being offered beforehand.  Like at what point can a company say "okay we've released five free things so we're going to charge for this."  I don't think that's unfair.  

This much I can agree with you on.  I was surprised, after Dragon Age's history of rip-off add-ons, that ME was offering such significant DLC for free.  People shouldn't be complaining about having to pay at this point for anything, and those that do are unreasonable.  But most people aren't--most are complaining about WHAT they're paying for, and once again, they're right to do so.

EDIT: Oh, didn't know that the game's price was increased to reflect the Cerberus Network.  Well...still, I'd say Zaeed and the Firewalker combined could reasonably have covered that extra.  Paying for more content's still fair to me, in theory.

While this is the "On the Horizon" DLC they spoke about it's not the huge expansion that they've hinted at.  One of the dev's has already made it clear they have a much larger DLC package in store that they will announce at a later date.  That being said I do agree alot with what you've said.  I'm definitely tired of headsets and armor.  I want full enjoyable DLC's like the Kasumi one even though it was too short.  And again it was only too short because I enjoyed it so much.  If discontinuing to purchase DLC's like the appearance pack would in turn spur more effort towards DLC like that then I would be all for it.  

But can we really be sure there's a correlation?  I mean technically they release DLC like that because it's cheaper/easier to do than come out with a new expansion every 3 months.  In this next generation age of video games is it really profitable/economical to have that sort of DLC timetable? I'd definitely say this isn't a subject I'm a guru on but from everything I've heard it's SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive to make video games than it was when Bioware made the awesome Baldur's Gate expansion that somebody mentioned earlier.  People have repeatedly brought up Fallout but to me that's a different beast because Fallout fans are satisfied with just combat.  Fans of ME2 expect roleplaying, voice acting, and a lot more detail.  You can't just plunk us in a new environment, tell us to start shooting, and then expect us to be satisfied with that.

[omnitremere]

GothamLord wrote...

cruc1al wrote...

I012345 wrote...

And can't you buy ME2 DLC directly through the XBOX Live interface even if you don't have the CN?

WTF are you talking about? The Cerberus network items are free to those who have access to Cerberus network. The only way you can have access to those items is to buy the CN access card, or buy the game new. Those who buy the CN access card, and those who buy the game new instead of second hand pay for the stuff in CN. Hence the stuff isn't free but paid for.

You dont need the CN to purchase Kasumi and things like the alternative apperance pack.  This is what he's talking about. 

That's exactly what I'm referring to.  Calm down dude.  lol

[Shallowain]

I012345 wrote...

I definitely agree with you in terms of the preorder items but I don't understand how that logic holds water with the items release after launch.  Like the Cerberus armor and shotgun, hammerhead, and to a lesser extent the Zaeed download. 

What actually remains to be considered paid by the CN if you essentially exclude everything associated with it?
ALL of this was paid through the CN.

only the  Hammerhead is debatable, since IIRC it was supposed to be in the game in the first place.

I012345 wrote...
Those are free items UNLESS you think they were already in the game and Bioware purposefully held them back to then release them later under the guise of "free".

I never said that, but you can extend this logic to anything that actually plugs in the game in a way that it seems it was always meant to be there.

on the other hand I am in the camp of those who think that the hammerhead should have been an integral part of the game from the beginning. but well, they screwed that.

It is not that they actually removed parts of the story like the 2 Missions before the last mission in Assassins Creed 2 on the Xbox to sell them separately. Additional characters hardly qualify as this.

[omnitremere]

javierabegazo wrote...

I012345 wrote...

cruc1al wrote...


Dude, you don't get it.

If you don't buy the game new, you don't get the CN card. If you buy the game second hand, you have to pay extra for the CN card. The money they make from the second-hand buyers is what offsets the price of producing "free" DLC distributed through CN. Hence, CN isn't about free stuff, it's about stuff that those who buy the game second hand pay for. 

Oh! That's what's supposed to offset it? I didn't catch that because I didn't think that would be a huge market.  If I get the game second hand either I'm borrowing it from a friend because I'm not that interested in it or I'm too broke to buy the full game so I get it used right? So why would I in turn chuck up extra dough to get DLC? And can't you buy ME2 DLC directly through the XBOX Live interface even if you don't have the CN? So that would be yet another reason not to buy it if you got the game secondhand.  Or is that an uninformed way to look at it?

The USED Game market is absolutely massive, and non of the revenue generated from that goes to the developers and publishers of the game. The whole idea behind Pre order bonuses and as of late, the CN is to provide enough incentive to Purchasers to get the game brand new, thus funneling profits to the creators of the game instead of retail stores like Gamestop, with their ridiculous profit margins on trade-in and used game sales.  

BioWare isn't going to waste any sympathy on the people who are "too broke to buy the full game" and nor should they. They use resources to make a product, and hopefully reap enough of a profit to make that a career.

DLC isn't a requirement for any game. It is extraneous content that is used to enhance the existing game.

But either way in the end, I would gladly PAY money for DLC if the quality is like Kasumi and NOT like the Hammerhead or the silly Normandy Crash Pack

I wasn't referring to the used game market.  That i know is definitely huge.  I was referring to the used game market that in turn buys DLC.  Because I'm thinking that if you borrowed the game or got it used because you didn't want to fork over the cash to begin with then why would you in turn plop down $40 bucks to get the expansion pack for that game.  That's what I was wondering.

[The RPGenius]

I012345 wrote...
But can we really be sure there's a correlation?  I mean technically they release DLC like that because it's cheaper/easier to do than come out with a new expansion every 3 months.  In this next generation age of video games is it really profitable/economical to have that sort of DLC timetable?

Well, here's the thing.  If there's no correlation, then we can't change things anyway, so the only thing to do is not buy the poor ideas and buy the add-ons with substance as much as we can because that's what we want anyway.  Buying it for the sake of  supporting the company blindly is pointless in that case, because if there's no correlation, they don't depend on the DLC's success to determine whether they make any more ever again, as you mentioned fearing.  So you might as well save your money if it's not an add-on you'd want.  But if there IS a correlation, THIS is likely the only way we can act to improve future endeavors--by saying what we want as clearly as we can by not purchasing this DLC, and stating that we won't be exploited here in this forum.  I'm sure they do have plenty of things planned out in advance, but it seems to me that the entire potential of ME2's add-ons can't possibly have been mapped out entirely yet.  Additions, subtractions, and changes CAN be made, I'm sure.

People have repeatedly brought up Fallout but to me that's a different beast because Fallout fans are satisfied with just combat.  Fans of ME2 expect roleplaying, voice acting, and a lot more detail.  You can't just plunk us in a new environment, tell us to start shooting, and then expect us to be satisfied with that.

Having been a Fallout fan for over a decade now, it's somewhat hard to not take offense to this.  I demand NO less from a Fallout game or add-on's storytelling elements than I do from any other RPG's, including Mass Effect.  I loved 2 of the Fallout 3 DLCs (Point Lookout and Broken Steel) for their story elements, liked 2 more (The Pitt and Operation Anchorage) for the same reason, and hated with a passion the last one (Mothership Zeta) because it was nothing but empty, pointless fighting in a different environment, with a "plot" far too silly and stupid to fit the tongue-in-cheek levity the Fallout series is known for.  I expect substance from my DLCs, and the reason people (myself included) cite Fallout 3's add-ons as better deals than several of Bioware's is that they ARE.

Modifié par The RPGenius, 04 mai 2010 - 09:48 .

[Shallowain]

I012345 wrote...

I wasn't referring to the used game market.  That i know is definitely huge.  I was referring to the used game market that in turn buys DLC.  Because I'm thinking that if you borrowed the game or got it used because you didn't want to fork over the cash to begin with then why would you in turn plop down $40 bucks to get the expansion pack for that game.  That's what I was wondering.

Well thats the reasoning behind selling things like CN separately and I myself wonder if there is aczually a significant number of people paying for DLC if they bought a game second hand. IMHO the whole idea is flawed at best.

[SkyJackal]

I don't really understand the people saying CN wasn't free when we brought the game new.

The game new on PC was £30, the standard PC game price in the UK. If Bioware/EA/Whoever hadn't have made CN guess how much it would've cost... yup, £30, the standard PC game price in the UK.

New buyers got the Cerberus Network, and subsequently all the DLC through it, for FREE.

As for whats worth distributing through CN and whats worth distributing through PDLC, well thats another story, but I just wanted to clear things up.

Modifié par SkyJackal, 04 mai 2010 - 09:53 .

[Darth Drago]

How is paying 67 cents for that armor really paying for it again? Bet you paid more for a 20 oz bottle of whatever you like to drink.

[GothamLord]

Darth Drago wrote...


How is paying 67 cents for that armor really paying for it again? Bet you paid more for a 20 oz bottle of whatever you like to drink.

Because people will always find something to **** about.    Modern age Human nature.

[cruc1al]

Darth Drago wrote...


How is paying 67 cents for that armor really paying for it again? Bet you paid more for a 20 oz bottle of whatever you like to drink.

Paying 67 cents for the armor is paying for it again. Sorry if you think 67 cents = 0 cents. it's not a matter of cost, it's a matter of principle.

Modifié par cruc1al, 04 mai 2010 - 10:04 .

[omnitremere]

The RPGenius wrote...

I012345 wrote...
But can we really be sure there's a correlation?  I mean technically they release DLC like that because it's cheaper/easier to do than come out with a new expansion every 3 months.  In this next generation age of video games is it really profitable/economical to have that sort of DLC timetable?

Well, here's the thing.  If there's no correlation, then we can't change things anyway, so the only thing to do is not buy the poor ideas and buy the add-ons with substance as much as we can because that's what we want anyway.  Buying it for the sake of  supporting the company blindly is pointless in that case, because if there's no correlation, they don't depend on the DLC's success to determine whether they make any more ever again, as you mentioned fearing.  So you might as well save your money if it's not an add-on you'd want.  But if there IS a correlation, THIS is likely the only way we can act to improve future endeavors--by saying what we want as clearly as we can by not purchasing this DLC, and stating that we won't be exploited here in this forum.  I'm sure they do have plenty of things planned out in advance, but it seems to me that the entire potential of ME2's add-ons can't possibly have been mapped out entirely yet.  Additions, subtractions, and changes CAN be made, I'm sure.

People have repeatedly brought up Fallout but to me that's a different beast because Fallout fans are satisfied with just combat.  Fans of ME2 expect roleplaying, voice acting, and a lot more detail.  You can't just plunk us in a new environment, tell us to start shooting, and then expect us to be satisfied with that.

Having been a Fallout fan for over a decade now, it's somewhat hard to not take offense to this.  I demand NO less from a Fallout game or add-on's storytelling elements than I do from any other RPG's, including Mass Effect.  I loved 2 of the Fallout 3 DLCs (Point Lookout and Broken Steel) for their story elements, liked 2 more (The Pitt and Operation Anchorage) for the same reason, and hated with a passion the last one (Mothership Zeta) because it was nothing but empty, pointless fighting in a different environment, with a "plot" far too silly and stupid to fit the tongue-in-cheek levity the Fallout series is known for.  I expect substance from my DLCs, and the reason people (myself included) cite Fallout 3's add-ons as better deals than several of Bioware's is that they ARE.

Honestly as soon as I hit submit I really sat back and thought about this and came the conclusion that the statement was incorrect.  I played all the Fallout 3 DLC except for the mothership.  And while I would still venture to say it doesn't have the amount of voice acting and depth of plot that would be required for a ME2 expansion that I would be satisfied with they definitely did a hell of a lot more than just sit you in environment and let you start shooting.  I take it back.  Bethesda is awesome....when they're not selling horse armor.  

[Zurcior]

I'm thinking that the people who didn't have the Inferno armor before this DLC(me included)have a hard time being completely against it. Maybe if Bioware released a DLC that bundled the Terminus armor(or whatever) with a bunch of stuff they want, they'd understand better.(?)

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

Most of this DLC coming out is about as impactful on the game as an old man farting in a nursing home on the other side of the planet. I wish they would release more stuff geared towards plotline or gameplay.

[Darth Drago]

cruc1al wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...


How is paying 67 cents for that armor really paying for it again? Bet you paid more for a 20 oz bottle of whatever you like to drink.

Paying 67 cents for the armor is paying for it again. Sorry if you think 67 cents = 0 cents. it's not a matter of cost, it's a matter of principle.

-Maybe, maybe not.
I have to wonder how many of these people that are complaining are doing so because they spent more than $5 to get the code online someplace. Or if these are the same people who counter reply to those that don’t like the low quality freebie items like the Hammerhead with “but its free!”

[Zinoviy]

darknoon5 wrote...

MadLaughter wrote...

Zino,
The only way for people who own the inferno armor to get these new helms is to pay for something they already own. How do you justify that?

And the self-important idiot raving about how we're all whining over nothing can't respond to this.

Too bad you can't stop name calling for one second to actually get a point across. It's funny that someone comes in here and stomps all over any pitiful argument you have, and all you can respond with is "shut up" and "self important idiot". You know that's irony, right? You're the one with the inflated sense of entitlement - HENCE THIS THREAD. LOL!


But for real, it's so simple, I don't see why nobody can understand this. If it's a bad value for you, don't buy it. It's really not difficult.

[Zinoviy]

GothamLord wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...


How is paying 67 cents for that armor really paying for it again? Bet you paid more for a 20 oz bottle of whatever you like to drink.

Because people will always find something to **** about.    Modern age Human nature.

Yup, and pretty much this.

If you guys are hung up so badly on this $2 DLC, you might want to try going outside or something.

[cruc1al]

Zinoviy wrote...

GothamLord wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...


How is paying 67 cents for that armor really paying for it again? Bet you paid more for a 20 oz bottle of whatever you like to drink.

Because people will always find something to **** about.    Modern age Human nature.

Yup, and pretty much this.

If you guys are hung up so badly on this $2 DLC, you might want to try going outside or something.

If you're hung up so badly on these people who complain about a $2 DLC, you might want to try going outside or something.

[Krigwin]

Zinoviy wrote...

GothamLord wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...

How is paying 67 cents for that armor really paying for it again? Bet you paid more for a 20 oz bottle of whatever you like to drink.

Because people will always find something to **** about.    Modern age Human nature.

Yup, and pretty much this.

If you guys are hung up so badly on this $2 DLC, you might want to try going outside or something.

Man, you guys are so cool. You must be rich and have your own cars and everything. Can you guys give me lessons on how to be as cool and successful as you?