98 réponses à ce sujet

[Vegielamb]

MotoSkunkX wrote...


The Asari think in the long term...

If that were true, they wouldn't be using slavery. Asari are classic narcissists, relying on sex and charm.

I wish you could call bluff on the whole "Asari Commando" thing. Few people have seen them because Asari are crappy fighters and would rather be having a facial and ordering their slaves around.

[Barquiel]

Vegielamb wrote...

If that were true, they wouldn't be using slavery. Asari are classic narcissists, relying on sex and charm.

Slavery is only legal on Illium (officially, not an asari world)

[Speakeasy13]

Vegielamb wrote...

Collider wrote...

I do call the Asari race Mary Sues.

The Asari have a darkside, it's just that we only hear about it in passing. They're spying, manipulating, biggoted, shallow narcissists. Illium hints at a lot of this.

Illium is hardly considered Asari terroritory. Yes they may have built it but they also share it with the likes of Volus and whatnot. Do we see that on human colonies? We tend to stick to ourselves, perhaps too much for our own good. If you have colonies to the exclusion of almost all aliens, of course you're going to be preceived as a bully.

[Nimander]

Count me as a contrary opinion. I'm tired of the modern conceit that humanity sucks and humans are bastards and so on. A good, old-fashioned homage to old-style space epics where humans are special? Works for me.

It's certainly true that 30 years is somewhat short an era for the sort of advancement we see, but it's not /too/ terribly short. When you couple complacency of the older races with other issues, it becomes easier. Also, in relation to the human ships, it talks about this. Humans use tons of tailored VIs and so on. Their ships need far fewer crews than other races. This is in the ME1 codex somewhere. So while a Turian ship might need a crew of 500, a human ship might need 100, and that extra crew can go to 5 ships. Just a comparison, not actual numbers.

Modifié par Nimander, 04 mai 2010 - 11:32 .

[KalosCast]

Humans really aren't that special. We just showed up to the galactic community by being blasted by Turians, and the only places we've been able to plop our (mostly failing) colonies are in areas outside Council space, or right on the edge of it. I don't know where things stand after the citadel battle, but Humanity didn't have the largest fleets (Turians did) and instead relied on highly mobile ships to get anywhere they need in a moment's notice (hence why they were the ones who got their fleets ready in time)

[Torrential]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

300 years? The United States isn't even 300 years old yet, and humanity went from using cannons to nuclear warheads, puppets and ragdolls to robots, discovering new islands to discovering new stars/asteroids/planets and actually being able to leave the planet, and more.
Technology advances faster and faster, things can happen fast. 300 years for Humanity to colonize several planets and set up a formidible (spelled wrong i bet) military fleet would be pretty poor compared to how far we have advanced in the last 300 years.
I would actually go for 100 years at most, but not 300. I'm also leaving the whole take over the council out of the equation because that was just a lucky fluke with the events of ME1.

Well if we are taking real world examples, considering how fast space based technologies have advanced in our life times or that of generations past, your statement is grossly inaccurate. Putting aside real world examples however:

The vast number of variables both known and unknown in space travel even short distances, let alone the colonisations of completely alien environments, is beyond massive. Note here I speak of the complexity of the variables involved, not specific challenges, as we can’t even fathom the half of the hurdles we'll face, working in a completely alien environment.

100 Years wouldn’t even get you a borderline understanding of what it would take to live or adjust to a completely alien environment, let alone developing colonization prospects or the logistics in such a mammoth undertaking (shipping people over there to re-settle, and building it up); we are not even at what we might consider a high level of understanding yet of this planets nuances, and we’ve been at that a considerable number of years.

If you want an educated guess, by someone who has a casual interest in astrobiology, from discovering a planet to colonising a fully functioning, self sustaining population, be thinking in terms of thousands rather than hundreds.

All that said, this is fiction not fact, fiction can cut a lot of corners. I'd of aimed for about 300 years myself too, but *shrugs* I hadn't even paid it much consideration till now.

Modifié par Torrential, 05 mai 2010 - 12:30 .

[Malanek]

I don't really have a problem with the 30 year timeline. I am a bit dubious about the humans doing so well in the first contact war though. At that stage they should have got an ass kicking. It made the Turians appear pretty incompetent when they are the most militarised species with a massive technology advantage.

[amillian]

the turians dropped their gaurd after they got what they thought was our home world. then we smashed them. this shows two important things
1. we had colanies before first contact so the timeline is much longer thanyou think.
2. the turians were to arrogant to even ask people "so this is your homeworld right" they just ASSUMED.
Oh and the massive tech boost from the protheans blows you "timeline" aurgument to peices.

Modifié par amillian, 05 mai 2010 - 12:38 .

[askanec]

Well, maybe humans built alot of ships the same way the United States is bailing itself: borrowing lots and lots of money. That'll explain why the humans kept getting bullied by the Council, they owe too much money to make noise.

[Skilled Seeker]

Speakeasy13 wrote...

Vegielamb wrote...

Collider wrote...

I do call the Asari race Mary Sues.

The Asari have a darkside, it's just that we only hear about it in passing. They're spying, manipulating, biggoted, shallow narcissists. Illium hints at a lot of this.

Illium is hardly considered Asari terroritory. Yes they may have built it but they also share it with the likes of Volus and whatnot. Do we see that on human colonies? We tend to stick to ourselves, perhaps too much for our own good. If you have colonies to the exclusion of almost all aliens, of course you're going to be preceived as a bully.

Noveria had aliens and its a human colony.

[Speakeasy13]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Speakeasy13 wrote...

Vegielamb wrote...

Collider wrote...

I do call the Asari race Mary Sues.

The Asari have a darkside, it's just that we only hear about it in passing. They're spying, manipulating, biggoted, shallow narcissists. Illium hints at a lot of this.

Illium is hardly considered Asari terroritory. Yes they may have built it but they also share it with the likes of Volus and whatnot. Do we see that on human colonies? We tend to stick to ourselves, perhaps too much for our own good. If you have colonies to the exclusion of almost all aliens, of course you're going to be preceived as a bully.

Noveria had aliens and its a human colony.

Nope. Noveria is not part of Citadel Space.

[Skilled Seeker]

Speakeasy13 wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Speakeasy13 wrote...

Vegielamb wrote...

Collider wrote...

I do call the Asari race Mary Sues.

The Asari have a darkside, it's just that we only hear about it in passing. They're spying, manipulating, biggoted, shallow narcissists. Illium hints at a lot of this.

Illium is hardly considered Asari terroritory. Yes they may have built it but they also share it with the likes of Volus and whatnot. Do we see that on human colonies? We tend to stick to ourselves, perhaps too much for our own good. If you have colonies to the exclusion of almost all aliens, of course you're going to be preceived as a bully.

Noveria had aliens and its a human colony.

Nope. Noveria is not part of Citadel Space.

I didn't say it was. Illium is not part of Citadel space either and you used it as an example of Asaria letting other aliens on their worlds.

[Speakeasy13]

askanec wrote...

Well, maybe humans built alot of ships the same way the United States is bailing itself: borrowing lots and lots of money. That'll explain why the humans kept getting bullied by the Council, they owe too much money to make noise.

The Council bullied us? How? They stopped the entire Solar System from being blown into pieces by the Turians, they bullied the Batarians to protect our interest, and gave us our own embassy when the Volus didn't get one.

[Speakeasy13]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

I didn't say it was. Illium is not part of Citadel space either and you used it as an example of Asaria letting other aliens on their worlds.

I said, Illium is NOT an Asari world. The same way Noveria is NOT a human world.

[Mangalores]

Vegielamb wrote...
...
If that were true, they wouldn't be using slavery. Asari are classic narcissists, relying on sex and charm.

I wish you could call bluff on the whole "Asari Commando" thing. Few people have seen them because Asari are crappy fighters and would rather be having a facial and ordering their slaves around.

That's actually another topic I'd find interesting. How "nice" are Asari, really? They play the fair empathic mediator in politics, but in ME1+ME2 we see them as crime bosses, slavers, mercs. assassins, religious zealots, psychopaths, executionors... not really that civilized actually.

the turians dropped their gaurd after they got what they thought was our
home world. then we smashed them. this shows two important things
1.
we had colanies before first contact so the timeline is much longer
thanyou think.
2. the turians were to arrogant to even ask people "so
this is your homeworld right" they just ASSUMED.
Oh and the massive
tech boost from the protheans blows you "timeline" aurgument to peices.

http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Timeline
Mankind found their mass relay in 2149
Demeter, Terra Nova and Eden Prime were settled only after 2150 .
The current ME time is about 2185

So the timeline is rather clear that colonization of the largest colonies happen only within a few decades and the overall expansion and exploration did not happen sooner. And I do not think it is that difficult to guess wether a species inhabits a homeworld or has a singular colony established there.

Modifié par Mangalores, 05 mai 2010 - 02:58 .

[Skilled Seeker]

Speakeasy13 wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

I didn't say it was. Illium is not part of Citadel space either and you used it as an example of Asaria letting other aliens on their worlds.

I said, Illium is NOT an Asari world. The same way Noveria is NOT a human world.

Well then you said official humans worlds were predominantly human. Can't that be said about all alien races?

[Speakeasy13]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Speakeasy13 wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

I didn't say it was. Illium is not part of Citadel space either and you used it as an example of Asaria letting other aliens on their worlds.

I said, Illium is NOT an Asari world. The same way Noveria is NOT a human world.

Well then you said official humans worlds were predominantly human. Can't that be said about all alien races?

We don't know that cause we haven't seen any of their homeworlds. But we know there were Volus on the Turian homworld and Dwells on Hanar homeworld.

[Skilled Seeker]

Speakeasy13 wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Speakeasy13 wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

I didn't say it was. Illium is not part of Citadel space either and you used it as an example of Asaria letting other aliens on their worlds.

I said, Illium is NOT an Asari world. The same way Noveria is NOT a human world.

Well then you said official humans worlds were predominantly human. Can't that be said about all alien races?

We don't know that cause we haven't seen any of their homeworlds. But we know there were Volus on the Turian homworld and Dwells on Hanar homeworld.

Then how do we know that humans don't allow aliens on their worlds? We haven't seen any of their major colonies up front either other than the one in Kasumi's stolen memories and there were a few aliens at that party. Also the turians have volus on their homeworld as they are a client species that deals with the finances. The drell use the hanar for manual labour.

[Speakeasy13]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Then how do we know that humans don't allow aliens on their worlds? We haven't seen any of their major colonies up front either other than the one in Kasumi's stolen memories and there were a few aliens at that party. Also the turians have volus on their homeworld as they are a client species that deals with the finances. The drell use the hanar for manual labour.

I think you switched Drell and Hanar with each other. That's not exactly how I would describe their relationship either. It's more simbiotic than that.

Well if nothing else, no one but human will want to be on Earth. We turned it into a sh*t hole remember?

[Skilled Seeker]

But how does that make us bullies?

[Speakeasy13]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

But how does that make us bullies?

Aggression and ethnocentric tendencies, which bullying and explotation both result from.

[Mangalores]

The overall problem of human expansion and development is not necessarily hard numbers but the relative development of humans compared to races who started centuries ago with the same tech base (Prothean tech) but were seemingly easily outpaced by human although humans were isolated while they could share their innovations with each other. The latter is one theory how Eurasia could outpace America, Africa and Australia in the rise of civilizations and technology. More people in the sanbox means more competition but also more collaboration and exchange.



If you then compare 30 years development to 2000 years of Salarian and Asari development. That's a bridge rather shaky to explain.