35 réponses à ce sujet

[Schwinni]

I just want to inform you that I have added a new package to my Runes Fixes (see signature) which changes the Rune Recipes so that you can craft Tier 3-7 Runes directly from Novice Runes.

It also fixes the crafting costs for Journeyman Dweomer Runes, which require an
additional etching agent, what all other runes don't.

[CybAnt1]

Schwinni, all I can say is ... YOU DA MAN.



You'll make Runecrafting into something usable before Bio ever does.

[Schwinni]

The only disadvantage is that you can ONLY use Novice Runes for crafting.
That is something which could only be changed by making a recipe for every upgrade path. That would be 6+5+4+3+2+1 = 21 tracings for one rune type. LOL

Modifié par Schwinni, 05 mai 2010 - 03:47 .

[Schwinni]

After all the complaints about Runecrafting I thought more people would be interested in that.

Well, CybAnt1, at least we 2 use it.

[CybAnt1]

Oh I would love it if Runecrafting appears in future sequels, and they turn it into something usable.



It's just that it needs some bug deborking (I hope that will happen automatically - in sequels if not in patches for existing), and possibly some design reworking, too.



Your mods begin that step.



The new runes are really cool. Problem is, we really need a much longer game, with better balancing (ahem), to really get a good chance to try them out. That's why I think your fixes are great for Awakening ... but ... so short a chance to really test & try these out.



P.S. one other change I'd like to see is shields taking armor runes rather than weapon runes. No idea if that was a (bad) design decision or just another glitch. But there seems to be no benefit to putting weapon runes in shields (they don't affect shield bash), and it makes much more logical sense then to put an armor rune slot there.



Also, staves should take runes! In particular, the elemental damage bonus runes to affect the elemental projectiles they fire. I also don't see why mage robes can't take runes, either, and why they can only go on leather or metal armors. A mage might quite obviously want to equip magic resistance runes.

[Schwinni]

CybAnt1 wrote...

P.S. one other change I'd like to see is shields taking armor runes rather than weapon runes. No idea if that was a (bad) design decision or just another glitch. But there seems to be no benefit to putting weapon runes in shields (they don't affect shield bash), and it makes much more logical sense then to put an armor rune slot there.

LOL, true. Well in the original BTIM_base, they had set the bitmask 18 (= 16 + 2 = CHEST + MELEE_OFFHAND) for armor runes and the bitmask 2 ( = 1 + 2 = MELEE_MAIN + MELEE_OFFHAND) for weapon runes.
In Awakening they have overwritten the bitmask for the armor runes with 16 again.
I'm gonna change that right now and will have a look if that breaks anything in Awakening.
If it works, regard it as fixed.

Also, staves should take runes! In particular, the elemental damage bonus runes to affect the elemental projectiles they fire.

I can set that also, but we have to observe if the damage is triggered.

I also don't see why mage robes can't take runes, either, and why they can only go on leather or metal armors. A mage might quite obviously want to equip magic resistance runes.

I can fix that.

Away for some testing now...

[Schwinni]

CybAnt1, is it possible that you still have the BTIM_base.gda from the "Runes for everything" mod in your override folder?

I ask, because Awakening doesn't enable runes for shields...

[Yrkoon]

  Awesome.

CybAnt1 wrote...

 

You'll make Runecrafting into something usable before Bio ever does.

You mean  he/she will make runecrafting into something usable  so that Bio doesn't have to.

I have mixed feelings whenever I see something like this from the community.   Part of me wants to  stand up and cheer  them on   for fixing bugs and design flaws. 

The other part of me thinks that   Community fixes are the reason why we won't see another patch from Bioware/EA.  From their point of view, why waste company time and resources on something like a patch  ( which you can't sell) when the community is more than willing to pump out these patches for you?

That all said, I've just downloaded this runecrafting fix

Modifié par Yrkoon, 08 mai 2010 - 04:19 .

[Schwinni]

A patch is still NEEDED.
The community can only fix things in Awakening what can be done by editing some resource files.

But fixing quest bugs or the bug that the main character cannot detect traps is IMPOSSIBLE, because there is no access to the script sources as long as the toolset isn't updated.

[Schwinni]

He he, I know why they have disabled it again.
Well, I did a test and enabled runes for shields. For that I also had to set the bitmask 18 for armor runes, because shields are in the same category as offhand weapons.
That also enables armor runes for all weapons which can be used offhand (1hand swords and daggers).

If you can live with that I can create a package doing that.

But before I need to know what you want:
- How many slots shall shields have (based on tier and compared to armor)?
- Shall gloves and boots also have rune slots? How many (based on tier and compared to armor)?
- Shall staffs have rune slots? How many?
- Shall bows and crossbows have rune slots? How many?

[CybAnt1]

Schwinni wrote...

CybAnt1, is it possible that you still have the BTIM_base.gda from the "Runes for everything" mod in your override folder?
I ask, because Awakening doesn't enable runes for shields...

OK ... this is why I wish everybody would package their mods as DAzips (even if they only change one line in one file) so I know for sure they're uninstalled. 

Yeah, I used the runesforeverything mod way back when ... and then I could swear I uninstalled it back when I was "cleaning out" mods because I couldn't figure out which one was causing a problem.... but of course maybe somehow I left a file in one or the other override folder (btw until recently I didn't realize there were two and some mods might put their files in different places). 

I can't check right now without rebooting my machine and right now I'm working on something else, but yeah, maybe that file is still there. 

Strangely, I don't remember runesforeverything giving runeslots for shields in DA:O and I'd be surprised that it would start doing that in DA:A. 

Also, someone once asked me how I had runeslots in bows in DA:A. Now I'm not sure if it was "normal" for some bows to have runeslots, or if this was also "carryover" from using runesforeverything. 

[CybAnt1]

The other part of me thinks that   Community fixes are the reason why we won't see another patch from Bioware/EA.  From their point of view, why waste company time and resources on something like a patch  ( which you can't sell) when the community is more than willing to pump out these patches for you?

#1, because console players can't use modfixes.
#2, because up until recently neither could Mac users (until a very kind Mac programmer wrote a homebrewed install tool for them) (fortunately as I've said I'm using bootcamp)
#3, because as Schwinni just said, some things modders can't fix... some will have to wait for a Toolset update to include DA:A source ... and others can't be done ever because there are "core" things modders can't touch .... 
#4, because it's the right thing to do, and there are some PC players who just don't use mods ... for whatever reasons. (Fear of messing with their game, etc.) 

[Schwinni]

That's why I got used to putting all override mods into subfolders with meaningful names and also provide my mods with such a folder inside the zip file already.

And no, bows had never rune slots with a mod.

[CybAnt1]

That also enables armor runes for all weapons which can be used offhand (1hand swords and daggers).

I'm not sure I understand that, per se. A shield only goes in your offhand. But a 1H dagger or sword or whatever could be used in your main hand, or your offhand. 

There are no weapons that are restricted to your offhand only. 

How does the file in runesforeverything do it? So that's the reason why it enables weapon, not armor, runes for shields? If we made shields take armor runes, every 1H weapon would have to also take armor runes? Nah, not in favor of that. 

- How many slots shall shields have (based on tier and compared to armor)?

Seems to me 1-4, as typical. 1 for ordinary small magic shields, 3-4 for exceptional unique large ones, or something between. 

- Shall gloves and boots also have rune slots? How many (based on tier and compared to armor)?

I forget how runesforeverything did it - and incidentally the reason I could swear it was uninstalled was my gloves and boots in Awakening didn't have them anymore - but the formula seemed right to me. 

- Shall staffs have rune slots? How many?
- Shall bows and crossbows have rune slots? How many?

Again, I would say 1 min, 4 max, just like everything else, increasing based on tier and uniqueness and size. 

BTW, I would definitely make those changes optional, as opposed to the fixes, which are necessary. (I know you've done this already in other cases.) 

[Schwinni]

CybAnt1 wrote...

That also enables armor runes for all weapons which can be used offhand (1hand swords and daggers).

I'm not sure I understand that, per se. A shield only goes in your offhand. But a 1H dagger or sword or whatever could be used in your main hand, or your offhand. 

There are no weapons that are restricted to your offhand only. 

How does the file in runesforeverything do it? So that's the reason why it enables weapon, not armor, runes for shields? If we made shields take armor runes, every 1H weapon would have to also take armor runes? Nah, not in favor of that. 

Yes, when shields can have armor runes all 1hand weapons can have them too.

In BITM_base there are two item types for the runes: "Rune - Weapon" and "Rune - Armor".
Each entry has a bitmask which defines where the runes can inserted.

An excerpt of the valid values is
MELEE_MAIN: 1
MELEE_OFFHAND: 2
RANGED_AMMUNITION: 4
CHEST: 16
HEAD: 32
BOOTS: 64
GLOVES: 128

Rune - Weapon has set "3", which is 1+2, which is MELEE_MAIN and MELEE_OFFHAND.
Rune - Armor has set "16", which is CHEST.

The problem now is that shields have no own value. They belong to MELEE_OFFHAND.
To enable armor runes for shields I have to set the bitmask to 16+2 = 18.
But that makes armor runes insertable into all weapons which can be used offhand, which are all 1hand weapons.
Unfortunately the values for the bitmask are hardcoded. So there is no chance to separate shields and 1hand weapons.

[CybAnt1]

Given the problems the solution would make, then, I would say, in that case, don't solve it.



Runeslots for bows - work, afaict, although I'm not sure in all cases. I did see elemental damage addition when I put such runes in my bow. At least I think so, I saw the little colored numbers pop up, a combat log would make me surer.



I don't know whether runeslots for robes or staves would work; guess there's only one way to find out.



I certainly can't see why chest armor should be the only armor to take runes, although, I can see making the system maybe that only chest armor can take 4 runes max, only helms can take 3 max, and the other pieces (gloves/boots) max out at 2 slots (but usually have only 1).

[Schwinni]

CybAnt1 wrote...

BTW, I would definitely make those changes optional, as opposed to the fixes, which are necessary. (I know you've done this already in other cases.) 

Let me think about that.
I have to consider which option needs a change to the bitmask setting and if I can provide incremantal files, which, when combined, do all changes.

Providing a package for every combination would result in too many packages.
At least we have the options "runes for shields", "runes for staffs", "runes for (cross)bows", "runes for boots" and "runes for gloves"...

[CybAnt1]

I wouldn't *bother* doing runes for shields. Since there's no way to make them take armor runes, and no effect from having them take weapon runes, that part I wouldn't bother doing.

As far as separability, all I'm suggesting is you make the fixes for bugs and what I would call "intrinsic" design flaws (like 99 runes = 99 inventory slots), separate from the additions (like runes for staves, bows, and robes).

Modifié par CybAnt1, 08 mai 2010 - 06:56 .

[Schwinni]

CybAnt1 wrote...

(like 99 runes = 99 inventory slots)

Ha! Now that you mention it. That's something I really wanna find out.
That must be a setting coming from the Origin sources where runes weren't supposed to be ingriedents.
I start with that and then I will take care of a additions for the rune slots.

[Schwinni]

Man, this is complete bulls**t!
The runes don't even have a stack size of 1. They have set 0.
And I know why now.
When setting the stack size to 99, you can buy 99 runes and they use only 1 inventory slot.
You can also craft runes using them.
But then, in the enchantment window, the stacked runes are shown as 1 rune.
Oh my god!
I really don't know how to make a quick fix for that, but I will dig deeper...

[Schwinni]

Finished.

I made 4 packages:
- Rune Slots for all Armor parts
- Rune Slots for Bows
- Rune Slots for Robes
- Rune Slots for Staffs

[CybAnt1]

Good, I like the modularity of that, as opposed to runesforeverything, which when I downloaded & installed it, made rune slots appear everywhere like a chaotic mess without really explaining how or why.



BTW, are you going to playtest whether putting runes in robes and staves works? I could test this myself, too, but I may not get to it for a while.

[Wizbane]

Go Schwinni!



Wizbane approves +10.

[soteria]

I wouldn't *bother* doing runes for shields. Since there's no way to make them take armor runes, and no effect from having them take weapon runes, that part I wouldn't bother doing.

Er, wouldn't the defensive weapon runes like spell resist work fine in a shield? That seems pretty useful to me.

Man, this is complete bulls**t!

The runes don't even have a stack size of 1. They have set 0.

And I know why now.

When setting the stack size to 99, you can buy 99 runes and they use only 1 inventory slot.

You can also craft runes using them.

But then, in the enchantment window, the stacked runes are shown as 1 rune.

Ahhh. I was wondering why they needed to take up so much inventory space. That explains it.



I'm not (currently) using this mod, though I appreciate the effort. While I was playing, my thought was the most useful thing would be some sort of tooltip to show me exactly what materials I need to make an expert or master rune or whatever. That alone would have been a great improvement. This fix works too, though it has its own problems.

[Schwinni]

CybAnt1 wrote...

BTW, are you going to playtest whether putting runes in robes and staves works? I could test this myself, too, but I may not get to it for a while.

I have tested if the runes slots show up.
The armor runes apply all effects correctly when inserted into robes.
I haven't tested if the weapon runes affect the ammunition of the staffs though. But IIRC from Origins (with Runes for everything mod) it worked.

What does NOT work is that elemental damge is transfered from the bows and crossbows to the ammunition.
But the Intensifying Runes should work, and +15% ranged crit chance isn't really bad.

soteria wrote...

I wouldn't *bother* doing runes for shields. Since there's no way to make them take armor runes, and no effect from having them take weapon runes, that part I wouldn't bother doing.

Er, wouldn't the defensive weapon runes like spell resist work fine in a shield?  That seems pretty useful to me.

Yes, you're right. They would work. Just in order to make armor runes work in shields you would have to allow armor runes for 1hand weapons also.
And even if you use the part of my mod to convert Dweomer and Hale runes into armor runes, Menacing Runes and Momentum Runes would still be helpful in shields...

I'm not (currently) using this mod, though I appreciate the effort.  While I was playing, my thought was the most useful thing would be some sort of tooltip to show me exactly what materials I need to make an expert or master rune or whatever.  That alone would have been a great improvement.  This fix works too, though it has its own problems.

What problems do you mean? That you can only use Novice Runes for crafting when using the Direct Rune Crafting package?
Well, it just works like Herbalism and Poison-Making work. You have to build every poition/poison with the base ingredients also.
Unfortunately there is no combination of the 2 ways (build every Tier from Tier 1 or build Tier N from Tier N-1).
I, personally, would have implemented the crafting system recursivly. That way the player could use any combination of lower Tier runes to build a Tier Y rune...