1517 réponses à ce sujet

[13Dannyboy13]

purplesunset wrote...

If the patch team started being specific and telling people what they're
working on, it would go a long way to placate and reassure many of the more intelligent people posting here. Those angry fans who make incoherent and immature responses can be ignored (as they usually are, anyway).

That is the main issue for most people, myself included. Not once in six months have we gotten any solid info for any fixes being looked into, simply sending a dev to the forums every few months to say the exact same thing makes people uneasy. "We're looking into fixes" is all we've gotten in six months, but no fixes to be seen. Not only that, but the only time the only time we see them is when they are also plugging a new dlc, or contest, or want our votes for something.
How is it that modders in their spare time can do what the company making the game has not in six months, I have no problem with dlc, but it's obvious that actually fixing the game is at the bottom of the priority list while squeezing every cent from us they can is on top. A few posts updating us on what fixes they are actually working on would've gone a long way to ease people's anger, it's really not too much to ask for considering most of us have already spent over $100 on this game and dlc.

[Torrential]

LordJared88 wrote...

Please stop complaining, everyone. It's really embarassing.

I wasn't a commenter you were referring to directly, but how does it help anyone to not hear what the community wants and doesn't want to see in a DLC?

LordJared88 wrote...

Personally, this is exactly the kind of DLC that fascinates me. Stepping into a perspective I've never considered before.

By your own reasoning, why should you be allowed to praise a DLC if others are not allowed to complain about it?

This is a forum for discussion. As long as there are no rules to the forbid what is being posted, people post their feelings and thoughts on related subjects in such forums for discussion, that is what they are there for.

[Zy-El]

I think LordJared was referring to the complaining about bug fixes in this forum which is about the new Darkspawn DLC. In other words, complaining about bugs is off-topic here. If you want to whine about the lack of bug fixes, there are plenty of topics still open to do so.

DannyBoy:  modders don't have to worry about porting their code to consoles and getting past the gauntlet of Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo technical QA.  Most mods are still works in development and often lack proper regression testing (ie they cause other unforeseen bugs elsewhere in the game).  I'm a modder myself so I know about these things.

Modifié par Zy-El, 10 mai 2010 - 09:46 .

[13Dannyboy13]

Zy-El wrote...

I think LordJared was referring to the complaining about bug fixes in this forum which is about the new Darkspawn DLC. In other words, complaining about bugs is off-topic here. If you want to whine about the lack of bug fixes, there are plenty of topics still open to do so.

I think that some, (not all mind you) of the people refering to bugs and fixes is simply their reason why they will not be purchasing this dlc. This thread is for discussion about the dlc good or bad, some people will buy it some won't everyone has their reasons. It just happens that many of the ones not buying it have the same reason, it doesn't make their opinion any less valid.

[Frogman1975]

Zy-El wrote...

I think LordJared was referring to the complaining about bug fixes in this forum which is about the new Darkspawn DLC. In other words, complaining about bugs is off-topic here. If you want to whine about the lack of bug fixes, there are plenty of topics still open to do so.

And again, I will chime in to say, while discussing patches may not be the stated topic of this thread, patches do impact the ability of others to play this game and the DLC.

Complaints that confuse the roles of the two teams (DLC and Patch teams) are invalid.

Complaints/criticisms that;

• state folks will not support the company by purchasing any more DLC until things are fixed,
• ask if a patch is going to precede content so they'll be able to play,
• or ask if they'll be able to play this content without upgrading to 1.03,

These are all valid as far as I am concerned. Some people just don't know how to keep the ideas separate, or have adult conversations about the idea of boycotting content purchases until game breaking fixes are implemented. 

[Zy-El]

Given the argument from that view, I concede your point. I agree in that Bioware should have stated whether or not patch 1.03 is required to play this DLC. I suspect that is the case since the item BlightBlood can transfer to Awakening and they would have tested it to be sure.

[Branji]

The problem here is a combination of Bioware/EA not caring about the unhappy fans (bad job of patching and DLC and expansions being buggy) and the fanboys who do nothing to help. Fanboys keep getting the DLC which sends a message to EA saying "we don't care about the bugs, we'll keep buying things and supporting your shoddy practices and to hell with the unhappy fans who can't hardly play the game".



Help everyone by not accepting anymore material for the game until it and the expansion, and DLC are fixed.



If you keep accepting things, you clearly don't care about the fans, no matter what you say. Your actions will prove you are lying if you say you care about the situation.

[13Dannyboy13]

Just to clarify what I wrote before, I meant the time/effort aspect of fixes. For most modders it's a hobby to mod the game, for the employees it's their job, even with the red tape (which is as difficult as releasing a full game) to go through it's just hard to understand why they haven't done what the modders have.

[Zy-El]

13Dannyboy13 wrote...

Just to clarify what I wrote before, I meant the time/effort aspect of fixes. For most modders it's a hobby to mod the game, for the employees it's their job, even with the red tape (which is as difficult as releasing a full game) to go through it's just hard to understand why they haven't done what the modders have.

Oh, I'm sure they've done the coding and maybe even unit-tested it but that's such a small part of the process.  The DA testers have to go through an entire play-through to ensure no new bugs are introduced by the fixes.  And they have to do it by documenting every step they take and every effect they observe.  And they have to do this on each platform (ie PC, Xbox, PS3, Gamecube).  And then Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo have to go through their testing with their QA people. 

I'm not saying the process is overly efficient - clearly, it is not.  But this is big business and millions of $$$ are involved.

[LordJared88]

Torrential wrote...

By your own reasoning, why should you be allowed to praise a DLC if others are not allowed to complain about it?

For one, praising isn't ungrateful like complaning is, but you do still have a point. I suppose constructive criticism is always helpful.

[Frogman1975]

Zy-El wrote...

Given the argument from that view, I concede your point. I agree in that Bioware should have stated whether or not patch 1.03 is required to play this DLC. I suspect that is the case since the item BlightBlood can transfer to Awakening and they would have tested it to be sure.

I suspect as much too, but I hate to assume anything.

[leeboi2]

Branji wrote...

The problem here is a combination of Bioware/EA not caring about the unhappy fans (bad job of patching and DLC and expansions being buggy) and the fanboys who do nothing to help. Fanboys keep getting the DLC which sends a message to EA saying "we don't care about the bugs, we'll keep buying things and supporting your shoddy practices and to hell with the unhappy fans who can't hardly play the game".

Help everyone by not accepting anymore material for the game until it and the expansion, and DLC are fixed.

If you keep accepting things, you clearly don't care about the fans, no matter what you say. Your actions will prove you are lying if you say you care about the situation.

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard...I'm going to buy all of the DLC and Expansions, not because I'm a 'fanboy' but because I want my game expanded...The bugs aren't gamebreaking, just play the game and stop whining about it. I've managed to complete the main game 6 times and Awakening twice, and that's on the xbox, which recieves less patches than the PC does. So yeah, stop whining.

[Kwanzaabot]

Branji wrote...

The problem here is a combination of Bioware/EA not caring about the unhappy fans (bad job of patching and DLC and expansions being buggy) and the fanboys who do nothing to help. Fanboys keep getting the DLC which sends a message to EA saying "we don't care about the bugs, we'll keep buying things and supporting your shoddy practices and to hell with the unhappy fans who can't hardly play the game".

Help everyone by not accepting anymore material for the game until it and the expansion, and DLC are fixed.

If you keep accepting things, you clearly don't care about the fans, no matter what you say. Your actions will prove you are lying if you say you care about the situation.

You know, it could be we "fanboys" simply aren't experiencing any bugs, and the ones who are just so happen to be the vocal minority.

So, yeah. We buy DLC and expansions, because they aren't buggy for us, and we find them entertaining. I know, we're horrible people.

[flagondotcom]

On PC, the bugs *CAN BE* gamebreaking -- because it's not a closed (console) hardware platform, there are significant variations in how severe the issues are--even between two PCs both running XP SP3 (in my particular case--I've kept one at 1.02 plus the toolset so that I can actually play through Origins, with a second one at 1.03 to attempt to play Awakening).



Complaining is not whining. Whining is what people who don't want to listen to complaints call it.



Complaining about a lack of fixes for gamebreaking bugs...well, that's IMHO on topic for any portion of this forum, because I don't know a better way to get the word out on two points:

1. If you didn't buy Awakening and haven't installed 1.03, then you should expect that Darkspawn Chronicles will require 1.03 and you *will* be at risk of suffering great pain.

2. I bought all DLC up through Awakening...but I won't buy any more (including DC) until a significant portion of the leftover bugs from before 1.02 are fixed, as well as the significant new bugs in 1.03. Trap detection in Awakening, stealing, runes...seriously, did 1.03 go through *any* useful form of QA or regression testing? I deal with software testing and integration in my day job...and I give BW an F on that aspect of Awakening and 1.03. The story in Awakening is interesting, but the characters are minimally developed and the balance is flawed...so I Do Not Want another DLC until they fix the ones for which I already paid.

[Branji]

Damn straight you're horrible people. Like I said, you are telling EA that you don't care about the poor job of tech support. That means EA won't improve anything.

[Dubidox]

Branji wrote...

Damn straight you're horrible people. Like I said, you are telling EA that you don't care about the poor job of tech support. That means EA won't improve anything.

And how do I know some random dude on the internet just didn't break his game through no fault of bioware?

I guess I'm an exception to the rule because though 1.03 was rough on one playthrough shortly after it was pushed, I took a break and upon coming back to another playthrough have found that 1.03 seems to have fixed scripting and dialogue bugs I didn't even know were there.  So on the whole, for me, 1.03 was not a failed patch.

Are there still bugs and glitches? Yes. 
Do I find them to be at an acceptable level? Yes.
Does that mean I  should not buy a new DLC that I'm interested in out of solidarity with random people who are having issues? Sorry but no.

If there are enough people out there having "gamebreaking" issues it won't matter if those of us that don't buy DLCs, it will still cause DLC sales to plummet.  I'm no hyper-capitalist but in this case it would seem that the market works.

On the other hand, if your game is broken and you can't fix it, you'd be stupid to keep buying DLC...

[dr dANGER boy]

"Boycotting" DLC isn't going to solve anything. They lose a few customers but for the most part they retain many of the loyal fans who can see past a few technical errors to appreciate the story, atmosphere, and lore of the games.

There are fixes out there that people have to done fix minor quest- and dialogue-related bugs and work continues to fix what can be fixed. Yes, there are some big issues with the 1.03 patch but most of these have been addressed by modders. I have to agree with some to say that it feels like the 1.03 patch was pushed without proper testing because it was needed to enable Awakening. However, is it the end of the world? No. Enjoy the game for what is what meant to be.

I for one amd looking forward to Darkspawn Chronicles.  Looks like its gonna be pretty cool!

Modifié par dr dANGER boy, 11 mai 2010 - 01:39 .

[Wicked 702]

LordJared88 wrote...

Torrential wrote...

By your own reasoning, why should you be allowed to praise a DLC if others are not allowed to complain about it?

For one, praising isn't ungrateful like complaning is, but you do still have a point. I suppose constructive criticism is always helpful.

I'm a paying customer, not Bioware's friend. I don't owe them any amount of gratitiude. In fact since I helped pay their bills, they should be grateful to me. You've got your priorities mixed up.....

[Wicked 702]

dr dANGER boy wrote...

"Boycotting" DLC isn't going to solve anything. They lose a few customers but for the most part they retain many of the loyal fans who can see past a few technical errors to appreciate the story, atmosphere, and lore of the games.

There are fixes out there that people have to done fix minor quest- and dialogue-related bugs and work continues to fix what can be fixed. Yes, there are some big issues with the 1.03 patch but most of these have been addressed by modders. I have to agree with some to say that it feels like the 1.03 patch was pushed without proper testing because it was needed to enable Awakening. However, is it the end of the world? No. Enjoy the game for what is what meant to be.

I for one amd looking forward to Darkspawn Chronicles.  Looks like its gonna be pretty cool!

So what are console players expected to do about it then? While I may agree that this type of game is better played on a PC, it is most definitely not the responsibility of the community to "fix" Bioware's mistakes. In fact, the idea that modders have even had to do so shows the absolute lack of quality on Bioware's part.

When Bioware decided to bring this game to console's, they also accepted the responsibility of supporting those versions. To date (6 months from release) no bugs in the original release or the expansion (save for Xbox achievements and PS trophies) have been fixed. That sound like due diligence to you?

[MrCrabby]

Ferret A Baudoin wrote...

Just to clear up something. As soon as you complete Darkspawn Chronicles, anytime you create a new character in DAO or Awakening you'll get the DLC item. So all of your characters will get it. 

I understand why some folks won't pick it up (evil, not playing your PC, etc) - but for those who are game for something different it's a lot of fun. I never get tired of stomping around as an Ogre. After being grabbed and used as a punching bag umpteen million times it's delicious to grab someone and dish it out for once. 

I notice you left "appallingly bad technical support and general contempt for our customers" off that list.

Modifié par MrCrabby, 11 mai 2010 - 02:16 .

[Trefalen]

PC World article about the new DLC, all I can say is OUCH!
PC World article about the new DLC

No one knows what it is, or where it's coming from design-wise, or why it exists at all, but according to Microsoft's Xbox 360 press blog, it'll be available on May 18 for 400 MS Points, or $5. Before you get too excited, recall that Dragon Age Origins: Awakening--the last major expansion for the game--costs $40 in the store (equivalent to 3200 MS Points).
Do the math and Darkspawn Chronicles sounds like a costume update, or maybe a couple new weapons, not a "an extended account in prose or verse of historical events, sometimes including legendary material, presented in chronological order and without authorial interpretation or comment" of the game's notorious flesh-rending bad guys.

Modifié par Trefalen, 11 mai 2010 - 02:22 .

[grieferbastard]

I can appreciate that if your game doesn't work, it can be very frustraiting. It is the logic that if you want something you want the community to get together with you to give a sort of 'mass bargaining power' to influence a company into giving you what you want, or at least giving it sooner.

Here's the thing though. My game works great. I have no bugs, no issues. I'd say a pretty good sized chunk of the approximately 3.5 million people who have the game are not having issues either. If you are, absolutely that sucks. I can understand that you're frustraited.

My game works great though. No problems, at all, since I got Awakenings or before. Or with any of my DLC, or player made mods for that matter.

Ergo, some sort of additional patch is not a big deal to me. In fact I'd say it's probably not a big deal to everyone (as in the majority of the 3.5 million people with the game) who are not having technical issues.

As a side note, I challenge anyone to present some good examples of players throwing a fit on any forum having any impact, what so ever, on the speed of patch or product releases. Given that it happens several times a day every single day on the BioWare forums and at least that often on every other games forums, is there some example of this behavior being in any way useful? Perhaps I've just missed it.

You want a technical issue fixed? Escalate with tech support. This has nothing, at all, in any way, any form or substance, to do with the release of new content.

[Wicked 702]

grieferbastard wrote...

As a side note, I challenge anyone to present some good examples of players throwing a fit on any forum having any impact, what so ever, on the speed of patch or product releases. Given that it happens several times a day every single day on the BioWare forums and at least that often on every other games forums, is there some example of this behavior being in any way useful? Perhaps I've just missed it.

You want a technical issue fixed? Escalate with tech support. This has nothing, at all, in any way, any form or substance, to do with the release of new content.

#1: Tech support directs you back to this forum. Posts here are ignored by anyone but other community members. Don't even go there.

#2: This DOES have to do with the release of new content. Specifically, users that have avoided installing that crapfest of a patch known as 1.03 want to know when those issues will be resolved and whether they will need it to play this DLC. And for other reasons many such posts are valid.

#3: You want an example? I've seen many use Ghost____(whatever his name is), the dev from Blizzard, as an example. Whenever they bring a technical problem to their forums, it gets answered by a dev almost immediately. Granted, that's an MMO with ongoing pay support. But the point is that there are other ways of handling this. It can be done. But for those of us interested in SW:TOR, Bioware's current tech support approach is EXTREMELY disconcerting. In fact, it's a real turn off. If this is the way they plan to handle that game......oh man.

[grieferbastard]

Wicked 702 wrote...

#1: Tech support directs you back to this forum. Posts here are ignored by anyone but other community members. Don't even go there.

I admit I haven't seen this, other than being told that this is where new patches will be announced. When you talk to EA tech support, they refer you to this thread? Or just the BioWare forums? 

#2: This DOES have to do with the release of new content. Specifically, users that have avoided installing that crapfest of a patch known as 1.03 want to know when those issues will be resolved and whether they will need it to play this DLC. And for other reasons many such posts are valid.

1.03 works great for me - again though, what does your technical issue have to do with releasing new DLC for 3.5 million people to potentially use? Are you saying that I shouldn't get new content, made by a completely different group of people, because you're having some tech problems?

#3: You want an example? I've seen many use Ghost____(whatever his name is), the dev from Blizzard, as an example. Whenever they bring a technical problem to their forums, it gets answered by a dev almost immediately. Granted, that's an MMO with ongoing pay support. But the point is that there are other ways of handling this. It can be done. But for those of us interested in SW:TOR, Bioware's current tech support approach is EXTREMELY disconcerting. In fact, it's a real turn off. If this is the way they plan to handle that game......oh man.

Of course there are other ways of handling anything - however, they all involve two things: Time and money. In business, time is also money, so again you come back to money. Are you saying that if there was a better way to do it that BioWare/EA wouldn't do it just because? 

Cross platform software is always going to have this sort of issue. I know it sucks. If WoW had to be designed to run on WinXP/Vista/Win7 32/64 bit, Mac, PS3/xbox360 and the rest they'd have similar issues. Every patch and update not only has to be tested in-house on whatever QA boxes you've got with a set number of 'test stories' (specific events, like say casting a healing spell on a party member while you're taking damage or some other event tied to other event triggers) but you then have to send it off to the platform owner (Sony for example) to test and get the results on before you can release it.

Not that I disagree with you. It sucks. You're going to get a lot further though if you realize that nobody wants everything to work more than EA/BioWare. Product support is all red ink to a business if you're not selling warranty/support packages. I don't work for EA/BioWare, so I can't say how they do business, but generally nothing gets done unless there's money allocated by a business case or some sort of approved budget to tie it to. So money has to be taken from things that will generate new revenue in order to pay people to fix issues with products that are already rolled in the budget.

Given that DA:O has a business model that involves 24 months of DLC and all that is justified by continually selling new DLC, fixing tech issues has to be top of the list. What you and I are never going to see though is what's involved in that fix - is it something tied to just specific hardware and drivers? If it's not driven by something in the DA:O code (which is unlikely as the majority of consumers are not having the problem) then how do they fix it? If, for example, it's tied to an open ticket with Sony on some PS3-related issue and only a few key events, does BioWare get any compensation from their contract with Sony to fix what is in part a Sony issue? How about a break on the royalties they pay on every distribution to PS3 customers?

Which is all speculation. Maybe there really is a big group of people around some table in Canada, drinking beer, watching hockey, scratching their big bushy beards and saying 'Pfft. Screw PS3 users. Fixing that is going to be a hassle. Not that big a market anyway.' and just blowing it off.

Unlikely though. You find a better way to handle software support though, develop a system and create a certification process for it. Every IT business in the world will pay you fat bank for it.

[Wicked 702]

grieferbastard wrote...

Wicked 702 wrote...

#1: Tech support directs you back to this forum. Posts here are ignored by anyone but other community members. Don't even go there.

I admit I haven't seen this, other than being told that this is where new patches will be announced. When you talk to EA tech support, they refer you to this thread? Or just the BioWare forums?

They refer you to the various tech support (PC, Xbox, PS3) forums located here. But as someone who joined this site to help others with the specialization lock patch back in December and who frequents the Xbox/PS3 forums daily, I can tell you that there is ZERO support there. We (the community) help with EVERYTHING.

grieferbastard wrote...

Wicked 702 wrote...
#2: This DOES have to do with the release of new content. Specifically, users that have avoided installing that crapfest of a patch known as 1.03 want to know when those issues will be resolved and whether they will need it to play this DLC. And for other reasons many such posts are valid.

1.03 works great for me - again though, what does your technical issue have to do with releasing new DLC for 3.5 million people to potentially use? Are you saying that I shouldn't get new content, made by a completely different group of people, because you're having some tech problems?

I can 100% guarantee patch 1.03 does not "work great" for you. You simply do not employ the specific skills regularly to notice that they no longer function. For example, steal much? Stealing is now broken for all platforms. Only quest related items can be stolen. When you try to steal "normal" items from anyone, all you get is a "stealing success" message and no item. But WAIT! A PC user has already corrected this issue with a mod. Console users? Well, it's two months past the release of Awakenings (something I don't even have and yet I was forced to download patch 1.03) and we've got squat.

grieferbastard wrote...

Wicked 702 wrote...
#3: You want an example? I've seen many use Ghost____(whatever his name is), the dev from Blizzard, as an example. Whenever they bring a technical problem to their forums, it gets answered by a dev almost immediately. Granted, that's an MMO with ongoing pay support. But the point is that there are other ways of handling this. It can be done. But for those of us interested in SW:TOR, Bioware's current tech support approach is EXTREMELY disconcerting. In fact, it's a real turn off. If this is the way they plan to handle that game......oh man.

Of course there are other ways of handling anything - however, they all involve two things: Time and money. In business, time is also money, so again you come back to money. Are you saying that if there was a better way to do it that BioWare/EA wouldn't do it just because? 

Cross platform software is always going to have this sort of issue. I know it sucks. If WoW had to be designed to run on WinXP/Vista/Win7 32/64 bit, Mac, PS3/xbox360 and the rest they'd have similar issues. Every patch and update not only has to be tested in-house on whatever QA boxes you've got with a set number of 'test stories' (specific events, like say casting a healing spell on a party member while you're taking damage or some other event tied to other event triggers) but you then have to send it off to the platform owner (Sony for example) to test and get the results on before you can release it.

Not that I disagree with you. It sucks. You're going to get a lot further though if you realize that nobody wants everything to work more than EA/BioWare. Product support is all red ink to a business if you're not selling warranty/support packages. I don't work for EA/BioWare, so I can't say how they do business, but generally nothing gets done unless there's money allocated by a business case or some sort of approved budget to tie it to. So money has to be taken from things that will generate new revenue in order to pay people to fix issues with products that are already rolled in the budget.

Given that DA:O has a business model that involves 24 months of DLC and all that is justified by continually selling new DLC, fixing tech issues has to be top of the list. What you and I are never going to see though is what's involved in that fix - is it something tied to just specific hardware and drivers? If it's not driven by something in the DA:O code (which is unlikely as the majority of consumers are not having the problem) then how do they fix it? If, for example, it's tied to an open ticket with Sony on some PS3-related issue and only a few key events, does BioWare get any compensation from their contract with Sony to fix what is in part a Sony issue? How about a break on the royalties they pay on every distribution to PS3 customers?

Which is all speculation. Maybe there really is a big group of people around some table in Canada, drinking beer, watching hockey, scratching their big bushy beards and saying 'Pfft. Screw PS3 users. Fixing that is going to be a hassle. Not that big a market anyway.' and just blowing it off.

Unlikely though. You find a better way to handle software support though, develop a system and create a certification process for it. Every IT business in the world will pay you fat bank for it.

I would and have defended Bioware religiously. But everyone has their limits. When they went and released the "expansion" along with an update that added more bugs to a game I could barely play without spending hours of my free time on this forum learning how to tip-toe around them, I lost it. I shouldn't have to do that. That's my time Bioware has wasted and for no good reason. My time has value as well. Bioware, as of right now, is no longer the developer I have happily supported for so many years. As such I will continue to voice my discontent, whether it falls on deaf ears or no, until I develop carpal tunnel and my fingers fall off OR they actually do their job and give console users what they have been waiting for. 6 months is too long to go without ANY fixes for ANY product. PERIOD.

Modifié par Wicked 702, 11 mai 2010 - 04:19 .