1517 réponses à ce sujet

[Branji]

Strangely, the DLC get cleared very quickly. And money: over 3.5 million copies sold, which means about $190 MILLION dollars. Needing money is no excuse. They have plenty of money. There are other companies that release bugfix patches faster than Bioware. If they can do it, so can Bioware. Period.

[purplesunset]

Wicked 702 wrote...

LordJared88 wrote...

Torrential wrote...

By your own reasoning, why should you be allowed to praise a DLC if others are not allowed to complain about it?

For one, praising isn't ungrateful like complaning is, but you do still have a point. I suppose constructive criticism is always helpful.

I'm a paying customer, not Bioware's friend. I don't owe them any amount of gratitiude. In fact since I helped pay their bills, they should be grateful to me. You've got your priorities mixed up.....

I sincerely wish more people understood this sooner rather than later. 

Yes, it seems blunt and cynical but this is much closer to reality than the other side of the coin (unabashed fanboyism).

A business can never be your friend, although, that's what they would love for you to believe. The reality though is that you mean nothing to Bioware/EA beyond being a wallet with a mouth.

A Bioware employee said point blank that patches are a privelege, not an obligation. They will never make a patch out of "gratitude to their loyal fans,"  so why should you delude yourselves and buy all their DLC "out of gratitude" to them?

You can choose to partake in that fantasy, and believe that a business can be your friend,  but at some point in the future, it will come back to bite you, and then you will become like me: An idealist who was burnt by reality.

Modifié par purplesunset, 11 mai 2010 - 04:57 .

[IzualTheMighty]

I can't believe some of the comments about the patches having nothing to do with this DLC. I've had game breaking, yes game breaking, bugs in DA:O and Awakenings the last time I made an attempt to play them. If I can't even finish my original game since 1.03 or finish the Awakenings DLC, why oh why would I even consider buying this one? I have every right to complain about this DLC being put out which is probably as bad off as Awakenings is when I can't even play though the last garbage they put out.

[Heather Cline]

I've never had any game play problems with DA:O or DA:A, then again I play on a 360 so I'm usually golden. I'm actually looking forward to playing as a darkspawn. I find it interesting and it will be fun.

[grieferbastard]

Wicked 702 wrote...
They refer you to the various tech support (PC, Xbox, PS3) forums located here. But as someone who joined this site to help others with the specialization lock patch back in December and who frequents the Xbox/PS3 forums daily, I can tell you that there is ZERO support there. We (the community) help with EVERYTHING.

So, aside from visiting the forums, have you used the actual tech support? E-mailed anyone? I admit I'm curious. I've used their tech support before (BioWare/EA) for two other games and had a good experience. Not great, mind you, but passable. Never needed it for DA.

Wicked 702 wrote...
I can 100% guarantee patch 1.03 does not "work great" for you. You simply do not employ the specific skills regularly to notice that they no longer function. For example, steal much? Stealing is now broken for all platforms. Only quest related items can be stolen. When you try to steal "normal" items from anyone, all you get is a "stealing success" message and no item. But WAIT! A PC user has already corrected this issue with a mod. Console users? Well, it's two months past the release of Awakenings (something I don't even have and yet I was forced to download patch 1.03) and we've got squat.

Just tested that. Money I get, but no objects that's true. As it was always pretty useless I admit, I quit bothering. Generally issues are rated 'Low, Medium, High, Critical, Showstopper' for priority. I'd call that one low to medium. I guess I'm looking for the game-breaking stuff. Patches will need to be done in bundles of defects; fixing a lot of serious stuff to a single patch. My point is that I have no bugs/flaws in my game that I would rank even as 'High' or better.

Wicked 702 wrote...
I would and have defended Bioware religiously. But everyone has their limits. When they went and released the "expansion" along with an update that added more bugs to a game I could barely play without spending hours of my free time on this forum learning how to tip-toe around them, I lost it. I shouldn't have to do that. That's my time Bioware has wasted and for no good reason. My time has value as well. Bioware, as of right now, is no longer the developer I have happily supported for so many years. As such I will continue to voice my discontent, whether it falls on deaf ears or no, until I develop carpal tunnel and my fingers fall off OR they actually do their job and give console users what they have been waiting for. 6 months is too long to go without ANY fixes for ANY product. PERIOD.

My point is not that voicing discontent is bad. I'd say it's critical - I encourage you to do so. It's worth mentioning however that doing it on this forum is in no way going to impact anything to do with fixing it. Consoles have a single, universal problem - they'll have the console developer (Microsoft/Sony) involved in anything to do with them. That's going to suck as both companies have a solid history of taking forever to deal with, well, anything.

Honestly? If the problem is the PS3 3.30 firmware update and not some fundamental flaw with DA (in which case everyone would have the same issue - like with stealing, for example) and Sony required an independent PS3 test run of their own before approval (can't speculate on BioWares agreements with Sony but I can say 100% that they have before with other companies - in fact they're generally the absolute freaking LAST to give approval on cross-platform projects) then why are you so pissed at BioWare?

Well, reasonably because that's who you gave your money to. Which is fair. Just, again, may want to look at where your effort is going to be product.

There is a difference though between the SOB who did you dirty and the SOB who actually has to deal with you directly as a customer. You've got a right to yell if your product doesn't work just don't forget the difference between who you're yelling at, who they talk to in order to get it fixed, and who actually screwed you. It's never the same people.

[Brako Shepard]

Ferret A Baudoin wrote...


I understand why some folks won't pick it up (evil, not playing your PC, etc) - but for those who are game for something different it's a lot of fun. I never get tired of stomping around as an Ogre. After being grabbed and used as a punching bag umpteen million times it's delicious to grab someone and dish it out for once.

Oooh I can't wait to give Alistair a pounding. Gonna sock it to him, gonna sock everyone!

Modifié par Brako Shepard, 11 mai 2010 - 08:00 .

[Kwanzaabot]

Branji wrote...

Strangely, the DLC get cleared very quickly. And money: over 3.5 million copies sold, which means about $190 MILLION dollars. Needing money is no excuse. They have plenty of money. There are other companies that release bugfix patches faster than Bioware. If they can do it, so can Bioware. Period.

Bioware CEO: "Oh, hey guys. We've made aboot $190 million off this Dragon Age whatsit. I dunno about you guys, but six Ferarris and two boats is enough for me. How about we call it quits, eh?"
Bioware Vice President: "Yeah, who needs more money? I'll lay everyone off after lunch, boss." *Vice President then farts, and laughs about it*.

Seems likely.

Modifié par Kwanzaabot, 11 mai 2010 - 08:48 .

[everstrongg]

i look forward to this dlc



it must be very bad for some people



i have seven x64 ult and had no problem at all on origins.. on awakening i had 2 bugs: couldn't take sighruns joining and lost my main items on the cave x/, but it was no gamebreaking and finished it twice

[edgarcabrerauk]

purplesunset wrote...

A Bioware employee said point blank that patches are a privelege, not an obligation. 

Is this true? did he dare to say that?

If this is true, this only shows the level of arrogance and lack of professionalism... they made a defective game and their responsibility (at least professionally) is to fix it, and they come with this insulting affirmation.

Really, you must have the bloody cheek to say that... they got our money and they treat us like this... really, I never heard of such an ungrateful and unprofessional attitude.... well. I'm happy I will never give my money again to support such arrogant scumbags...

[Kwanzaabot]

edgarcabrerauk wrote...

purplesunset wrote...

A Bioware employee said point blank that patches are a privelege, not an obligation. 

Is this true? did he dare to say that?

If this is true, this only shows the level of arrogance and lack of professionalism... they made a defective game and their responsibility (at least professionally) is to fix it, and they come with this insulting affirmation.

Really, you must have the bloody cheek to say that... they got our money and they treat us like this... really, I never heard of such an ungrateful and unprofessional attitude.... well. I'm happy I will never give my money again to support such arrogant scumbags...

I wouldn't mind a link, if it's true (sounds like unsubstantiated bunk to me). Seems to me that if someone at Bioware said that, there'd be a lot more (probably locked) threads about it.

[edgarcabrerauk]

Kwanzaabot wrote...

edgarcabrerauk wrote...

purplesunset wrote...

A Bioware employee said point blank that patches are a privelege, not an obligation. 

Is this true? did he dare to say that?

If this is true, this only shows the level of arrogance and lack of professionalism... they made a defective game and their responsibility (at least professionally) is to fix it, and they come with this insulting affirmation.

Really, you must have the bloody cheek to say that... they got our money and they treat us like this... really, I never heard of such an ungrateful and unprofessional attitude.... well. I'm happy I will never give my money again to support such arrogant scumbags...

I wouldn't mind a link, if it's true (sounds like unsubstantiated bunk to me). Seems to me that if someone at Bioware said that, there'd be a lot more (probably locked) threads about it.

Well, perhaps... but I doubt they'll lock that sort of threads, since it seems they do not care much of what we say here, this forum has become more like those outsourced call centres where you talk to someone who will never resolve your prob or like a posting board to EA/BW. 

[Foreman20]

ZY-EL wrote:

Oh, I'm sure they've done the coding and maybe even unit-tested it but that's such a small part of the process. The DA testers have to go through an entire play-through to ensure no new bugs are introduced by the fixes. And they have to do it by documenting every step they take and every effect they observe.



There is no way on this planet that BioWare played all the way through the Awakening and miss the "killing the Orge with a critical hit glitch." How do you miss your character jumping away from the orge while it goes through the correct animations? Does your "ghost" kill the orge. This is very easily seen and could not have been missed.

[Demx]

Not to mention the amount of bugs introduced with the latest patch to the game.

[Zy-El]

Foreman20 wrote...

ZY-EL wrote:
Oh, I'm sure they've done the coding and maybe even unit-tested it but that's such a small part of the process. The DA testers have to go through an entire play-through to ensure no new bugs are introduced by the fixes. And they have to do it by documenting every step they take and every effect they observe.

There is no way on this planet that BioWare played all the way through the Awakening and miss the "killing the Orge with a critical hit glitch." How do you miss your character jumping away from the orge while it goes through the correct animations? Does your "ghost" kill the orge. This is very easily seen and could not have been missed.

Is this a game-breaking bug?  Does it prevent you from completing the quest?  NO.  It's a graphical glitch.

It's a question of cost-analysis.   Do you squash the big bugs now or big/little bugs 3 months from now?

For example, yes - we testers noticed this bug - how long will it take to fix?  How long to re-package the patch and re-distribute it?  Yes, devs say we can fix this bug but it will take another three months before we can release the patch.  Project Manager says - release the patch 1.03 now as is - we have a hard deadline and it is more important to get out the transition lag fix; this bug can be patched later.

It's a question of priorities.  Game-breaking bugs that prevent players from progressing through the game to conclusion will always get priority over minor bugs and glitches.

[purplesunset]

edgarcabrerauk wrote...

Kwanzaabot wrote...

edgarcabrerauk wrote...

purplesunset wrote...

A Bioware employee said point blank that patches are a privelege, not an obligation. 

Is this true? did he dare to say that?

If this is true, this only shows the level of arrogance and lack of professionalism... they made a defective game and their responsibility (at least professionally) is to fix it, and they come with this insulting affirmation.

Really, you must have the bloody cheek to say that... they got our money and they treat us like this... really, I never heard of such an ungrateful and unprofessional attitude.... well. I'm happy I will never give my money again to support such arrogant scumbags...

I wouldn't mind a link, if it's true (sounds like unsubstantiated bunk to me). Seems to me that if someone at Bioware said that, there'd be a lot more (probably locked) threads about it.

Well, perhaps... but I doubt they'll lock that sort of threads, since it seems they do not care much of what we say here, this forum has become more like those outsourced call centres where you talk to someone who will never resolve your prob or like a posting board to EA/BW. 

I did not want to call too much attention to it, because I felt it would be unfair if you guys single out that one person for verbal backlash. Your beef should be with EA  as a whole, because they're the ones in charge of the legal mumbo-jumbo that sets the tone for these things.

here's the link

[Zy-El]

purplesunset wrote...
A Bioware employee said point blank that patches are a privelege, not an obligation. 

here's the link

If you're going to quote someone, please don't paraphrase with your own bias.  He did not say that patches are a privilege.  He said, "It is a favour. We are under no obligation to provide post-release patches."  Legally, Bioware is not required to patch their software.  Dragon Age is sold "as is". 

However, he does go on to say, "You are not entitled to a game that works to your specifications or to your satisfaction, but we still work darned hard to try and make it as painless and bug-free as we can. That is something people can and do thank us for: our commitment to quality."

Dragon Age is not perfect but it works well enough for me that I am entertained and continue to play it over and over again.  I think I am in the majority of users for whom the game works just fine.  There is a large contingent of vocal complainers who just like to rant and rave over minor bugs.  Granted - they do have some valid points - but shouting it out over and over again gets rather grating.

[purplesunset]

Zy-El wrote...

purplesunset wrote...
A Bioware employee said point blank that patches are a privelege, not an obligation. 

here's the link

If you're going to quote someone, please don't paraphrase with your own
bias.  He did not say that patches are a privilege.  He said, "It is a
favour. We are under no obligation to provide post-release patches." 
Legally, Bioware is not required to patch their software.  Dragon Age is
sold "as is". 

And if you're going to quote someone, please don't take things out of their original context. <_< My original preface before posting that link was very important (please scroll up and read it).

I made it  clear that I understand this to be a legal issue more than anything else, and if people want to do something about it, EA is the one they should address.

Modifié par purplesunset, 11 mai 2010 - 03:22 .

[Zy-El]

Elps wrote...  Well said. 
In almost every other business the company couldn't get away with selling product that is not fit for purpose. So, some people have no problems. Loads of others do, and cannot play the game they paid for. I love DA:O and would probably buy every expansion and DLC for it because I enjoy the story and role playing. What I don't enjoy is having paid hard earned money for something that cannot be used. 

EA support tell you to post on the forums. So, people come here, post system specs and crash reports and .... wait. It's now been 2 months with no word from the developers about what is happening. 

Nobody knows what impact these issues will have on the Dragon Age franchise. I suspect that most people who get brushed off with a cursory response from EA would not bother coming to the forums. For all we know, there could be a million people who just gave up on the idea of being able to expand their game beyond Origins, RtO and Wardens Keep. 

Forum users are only a tiny proportion of DA game owners so regardless of what gets said here, the opinions of any of us don't carry much weight. However, its always easier to keep a customer than to get a new one & this is something Bioware & EA seem to be ignoring. Unfortunately, this is going to skew the sales for DLC - if people can't play it they won't buy it.

If Darkspawn Chronicles fails to get the targeted sales Bioware will never know if its because people don't like this kind of DLC or if they just couldn't play it so steered clear. Lose/lose no matter which way you look at it.

I agree with you for the most part.  In keeping with your line of reasoning, it is to Bioware's benefit to release a good, saleable product.  I'm sure Bioware/EA did marketting research to determine the viability of DC before developing and releasing it.  In their eyes, it must be a profitable venture.  Bear in mind that DC probably did not cost them very much to produce, so even if they only sell 100,000 copies, they'll probably still make a profit.  Maybe not as much profit as other DLC.

It is to Bioware's advantage to release a patch that makes their software work on everybody's machine.  That's probably the only reason why they're allocating resources to it.  Otherwise, why would they?    Greed is what is driving them to do so.  The devs are glad to do bug fixes because it is a point of personal pride as well as getting paid to do it.  The execs allocate funds to do it because they can foresee more profits from a patch 1.04.

As you have stated, they cannot release any more DLC that relies on a patch that needs to be released beforehand.  It is in Bioware's best interests to release a patch.

[edgarcabrerauk]

purplesunset wrote...

edgarcabrerauk wrote...

Kwanzaabot wrote...

edgarcabrerauk wrote...

purplesunset wrote...

A Bioware employee said point blank that patches are a privelege, not an obligation. 

Is this true? did he dare to say that?

If this is true, this only shows the level of arrogance and lack of professionalism... they made a defective game and their responsibility (at least professionally) is to fix it, and they come with this insulting affirmation.

Really, you must have the bloody cheek to say that... they got our money and they treat us like this... really, I never heard of such an ungrateful and unprofessional attitude.... well. I'm happy I will never give my money again to support such arrogant scumbags...

I wouldn't mind a link, if it's true (sounds like unsubstantiated bunk to me). Seems to me that if someone at Bioware said that, there'd be a lot more (probably locked) threads about it.

Well, perhaps... but I doubt they'll lock that sort of threads, since it seems they do not care much of what we say here, this forum has become more like those outsourced call centres where you talk to someone who will never resolve your prob or like a posting board to EA/BW. 

I did not want to call too much attention to it, because I felt it would be unfair if you guys single out that one person for verbal backlash. Your beef should be with EA  as a whole, because they're the ones in charge of the legal mumbo-jumbo that sets the tone for these things.

here's the link

I see, but there's one problem with the video game, it is considered a consumer good, therefore the consumer act applies. As for the EULA, it is entitled to agree that you accept the software product as is... but not the consumer good, therefore BW/EA must have a costumer support for the consumer good they are selling, sorry but it not a favour, it is an obligation. 

This is legal grey area which can be used as a defense of a software product, but many software companies do not use it because that gives a bad name... if BW/EA are using it, that speaks volume on how shady their practices are.

As for the people who have no issues playing the game, good for you... I know many just speak out the knowledge that there are other people who have been waiting for a patch since 6 months ago, if you mind to go to the first posts in the forum, there were no complains, no "whining" or else... EA/BW had got their time to fix the game and it didn't do it, this is especially remarkable in console versions. Patience has its limits and many of those "shouting, whining, moaning" people have run out of it. Sorry, but EA/BW brought this to themselves, if there were a patch (a real patch) every 2 months or one big patch 3 months ago. most of us wouldn't be complaining...

If EA/BW strategy is to ignore us and just keep the base of loyal fans, that could work in the short term, but they are playing a dangerous game, because less people will be interested on buying their products and they will fail to attract new clients and that means losing money. All what is happening is giving a bad reputation to EA/BW since much of their former reputation was because of many old loyal fans (as myself)... and many have expressed their discontent and to stop supporting BW.

[Frogman1975]

Foreman20 wrote...

ZY-EL wrote:
Oh, I'm sure they've done the coding and maybe even unit-tested it but that's such a small part of the process. The DA testers have to go through an entire play-through to ensure no new bugs are introduced by the fixes. And they have to do it by documenting every step they take and every effect they observe.

There is no way on this planet that BioWare played all the way through the Awakening and miss the "killing the Orge with a critical hit glitch." How do you miss your character jumping away from the orge while it goes through the correct animations? Does your "ghost" kill the orge. This is very easily seen and could not have been missed.

It looks bad. But it isn't game breaking, in that you can still progress. That is the logic.

[edgarcabrerauk]

Zy-El wrote...

Foreman20 wrote...

ZY-EL wrote:
Oh, I'm sure they've done the coding and maybe even unit-tested it but that's such a small part of the process. The DA testers have to go through an entire play-through to ensure no new bugs are introduced by the fixes. And they have to do it by documenting every step they take and every effect they observe.

There is no way on this planet that BioWare played all the way through the Awakening and miss the "killing the Orge with a critical hit glitch." How do you miss your character jumping away from the orge while it goes through the correct animations? Does your "ghost" kill the orge. This is very easily seen and could not have been missed.

Is this a game-breaking bug?  Does it prevent you from completing the quest?  NO.  It's a graphical glitch.

It's a question of cost-analysis.   Do you squash the big bugs now or big/little bugs 3 months from now?

For example, yes - we testers noticed this bug - how long will it take to fix?  How long to re-package the patch and re-distribute it?  Yes, devs say we can fix this bug but it will take another three months before we can release the patch.  Project Manager says - release the patch 1.03 now as is - we have a hard deadline and it is more important to get out the transition lag fix; this bug can be patched later.

It's a question of priorities.  Game-breaking bugs that prevent players from progressing through the game to conclusion will always get priority over minor bugs and glitches.

Two bugs in Xbox:
1) Corrupted saves, if you overload one merchant by selling items, your saves are corrupted. If  this is not consider a game breaker... well, what is this then?, an Xbox glitch?. 

2) Dex not working, yes, the dex is not working in Xbox!, why is this an important bug?, because the dex as described in the manual is simply not there and this limit the character creation to only Str based character, when according to the game description, you should be able to create dex based character. Of course you can play the game but this game uses dex as an attribute and more specifically as a functional feature of the game. This should be flagged as high priority, it was resolved on the PC, not in consoles.

 6 months have passed and no fix for those bugs... 2 bugs... I don't mind the glitches and minor bugs, but these 2... it is just ridiculous...
 

Modifié par edgarcabrerauk, 11 mai 2010 - 04:48 .

[Zy-El]

Yes, that bug has been fixed on the PC version. Not fixed on the XBox - why is that?



Obviously, Bioware has the fix for this problem but it has not been migrated to the XBox platform. Who is to blame for that do you think? Hmmmm . . . could it be Micro$oft???

[edgarcabrerauk]

Zy-El wrote...

Yes, that bug has been fixed on the PC version. Not fixed on the XBox - why is that?

Obviously, Bioware has the fix for this problem but it has not been migrated to the XBox platform. Who is to blame for that do you think? Hmmmm . . . could it be Micro$oft???

Well, it is the same on PS3... perhaps it is BW?... and for PS3 the bugs are worse for what I've read...

[DeathViper1959]

Hey Guy's



I was just browsing the forum in this thread and was just checking to see if any progress has been made since i quit playing DOA/DAA a week ago.



i am wondering if i can take my games back to Best Buy and get a refund, if not then i will simply refuse to buy anything else Bioware or EA, it's their loss not mine as there are so many games on the market and with e-bay so many older games to choose from.



when i was younger, if a product was bad, people would boycot the company that produced the bad product.



fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.



i think i might at least try returning DAO/DAA to Best Buy and complain to them that the game has issues that are not being fixed, if a retailer such as Best Buy, got enough complaints maybe they as a nation wide chain could intervien and say hey EA/Bioware your not just affecting your bussiness, but now you are affecting our's you need to step up to the plate and take care of this.



we may well be ignored, but can they afford to ignor a national retailer?



maybe for those of us who cannot play the game because of bugs, if we at least try to take these games back to the retailers, if done by a large enough nuber of us, then Biocrap and Electronic Ass



would have to take note from the retailers, if we set a date, and as many of us as possible tried to return DAO/DAA on the same day. maybe this would force them to do something.



nation wide boycots of the past worked well to effect a change in company policy, tic off your customer base/fan base and you lose.