277 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarah1281]

Loghain is still around to offer his military experience having learned from his mistakes

Well, until he's sent to Montsimmard because the First Warden is a soulless bastard.

Edit: Wait, so that's not censored but the female equivalent is? 

Modifié par Sarah1281, 08 mai 2010 - 03:37 .

[Tirigon]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Massamies wrote...

That is false. Orlais could have easily attack after Ferelden weakened by civil war and blight after the blight, but they didn't. Celene I and Orlesians in general know and remember that Ferelden is not worth the effort for minimal gain. Troops tied by last occupation probably cost war against Nevarra where Orlais lost territory that was actually worth something.

Right...cause it's SOO easy to take a kingdom, weakened as it is.

Especially when it's full army is mustered and has already defeated a Blight. The main route into Fereldan is by Castle Redcliff, which can be held quite easily. Oh maybe she could have won,( I doubt it ), but it would have been at a very great cost. Especially since the Fereldans would have thought the Orlesians to their very end.

By all means believe in that weak logic of yours. I will just stick to following examples laid by history.

Jerusalem. 1.000 Peasants, a couple of dozen men at arms and a couple of Knights hold the city against almost 20.000 men, to the point where Saladin would have to sacrifice a great part of his army to take it.

Constantinople: Almost 100.000 Turks attack the city guarded by a mere 7.000 Men. The turks lost a very great deal of men, almost to the point that there was a high risk for Mehmed to have his army abandon him if he could not take the city.

Celene is far clever then that, she tried to convince Cailan to marry her, when that failed she tried sending four legions into Fereldan to help against the Blight. Not that those legions would have left mind after the Blight was defeated mind you.

They could have ignored Castle Redcliff and conquered the land around first, thus forcing the Fereldans to an open battle.
In an open battle, the weakened Fereldan army stands no Chance against the Orlaisian chevaliers.

[Costin_Razvan]

More relevant example: Orlais conquered Ferelden that was not weakened by civil war or blight 100 years ago.

Your comparing a Fereldan 100 years ago to the one today? Most people back then did not hate Orlais, most people now do. If Orlais tried to invade again you can be the armies of Fereldan would have swollen dramatically with volunteers.



The Imperial Highway to the north goes for a very narrow stretch of land. With the lake on one side and the Waking Sea on the other.

[Tirigon]

Costin_Razvan wrote...


Your comparing a Fereldan 100 years ago to the one today? Most people back then did not hate Orlais, most people now do. If Orlais tried to invade again you can be the armies of Fereldan would have swollen dramatically with volunteers.

Not necessarily. They see Loghain as their enemy, too. I doubt Orlais would be enough to make them allies instead of enemies.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Tirigon wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...


Your comparing a Fereldan 100 years ago to the one today? Most people back then did not hate Orlais, most people now do. If Orlais tried to invade again you can be the armies of Fereldan would have swollen dramatically with volunteers.

Not necessarily. They see Loghain as their enemy, too. I doubt Orlais would be enough to make them allies instead of enemies.

If Orlais invaded, that would have validated Loghain's claims and the vast majority would have sided with him. Fereldans hate Orlais and the vast majority of nobles suffered a lot under Orlesian occupation.

Any Bann that would ally with Orlais against Loghain, will be imediately despised and hated by everyone.

[Brako Shepard]

sylvanaerie wrote...

 The only thing I don't like about killing him is doing it in the Landsmeet in front of his daughter.  To me that is excessively brutal. Usually I have Alistair duel him so I don't have to make that choice.

Yes that is a harsh thing to do, but you also have to remember what type of time setting this game takes place in.

If you compare it to our real type of history, public murder for crimes commited was shown to the public. Someone somewhere was getting there head chopped off whilst there families were there to witness it. But I do feel there should have been a couple of choices if you did decide to let him live.

Whilst I really do enjoy hating Alistair with a passion, as someone in the thread pointed out, you can understand him why he wants to see Loghain dead. But as far as not wanting to kill him infront of his daughter or have him join the grey wardens, I think there should have been a choice to just banish him.

[Sarah1281]

Even given the time period...can't we make her stand back far enough that she's not splattered with his blood? I mean, really? We're not barbarians.

[LadyDamodred]

"It's 1183 and we're barbarians." - Eleanor of Aquitaine, Lion in Winter



Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Brako Shepard]

Perhaps they could have done an extra scene with Sten or something. Tell Anora that her father is to be banished, and then have some of the characters take him to a forrest. Once there, Loghain knows why he is there is prepares to die.



He definitely deserves to die, but why should his daughter have to see the father who she loves, murdered right in front of her. To me it's bad taste on either Alistair or the MC for doing such a thing. Still, its done now and we can't go back lol.

[CalJones]

That's why I can't bring myself to do it. I did it my first game and was horrified. He's only died in one game since then and I let Alistair handle it (and then let him handle the Archdemon, heh).

Fact I like the character, flawed though he is, doesn't help.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Even Bhelen had the courtesy to execute Harrowmont outside the Assembly. If Loghain deserves to die (and I do not believe that), then he is at least entitled to a proper death.

[phaonica]

I would not be able to hand off Loghain's execution because I didn't want to do it myself. I'm not going to order his death if I can't stomach executing the order myself. And even if you took Loghain off for a proper execution, Anora would probably be there, unless you ordered her to not be there, in which case it's because you can't stomach it, not her.

[Sarah1281]

You know, that's a good point. When dwarven politics gets more civil then human politics... And Anora has Alistair executed not at the Landsmeet itself...why are Alistair and possibly the Warden the only ****s who won't bow to common decency?

[Costin_Razvan]

Perhaps, but no man deserves to be gutted like a pig. At least have the decency to hang him, and yes when Dwarven Politics get more decent then Human ones you realize something is very wrong,

 ..why are Alistair and possibly the Warden the only ****s who won't bow to common decency?

Because it's Bioware's favorite way of making the kidies feel good about murdering a man.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 08 mai 2010 - 06:48 .

[CalJones]

I don't know. Dying by the sword is more a warrior's death - hanging is a common criminal's death. In Loghain's shoes, I'd rather the sword than the noose.

Still, the whole thing is unnecessarily brutal.

[phaonica]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Even Bhelen had the courtesy to execute Harrowmont outside the Assembly. If Loghain deserves to die (and I do not believe that), then he is at least entitled to a proper death.

I haven't read any of the books yet. Do we know what a proper execution in Ferelden is?

[Sarah1281]

phaonica wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Even Bhelen had the courtesy to execute Harrowmont outside the Assembly. If Loghain deserves to die (and I do not believe that), then he is at least entitled to a proper death.

I haven't read any of the books yet. Do we know what a proper execution in Ferelden is?

Considering that when Anora calls for Alistair's execution she has guards take him away to do it later rather than having someone gut him right there, I think what Bhelen did is more in line with protocol that what Alistair does.

[Costin_Razvan]

We don't have executions in the books, well not proper executions.



We do have Maric killing Katriel and Bann Ceorlic, by gutting them like pigs.

[Xandurpein]

Sarah1281 wrote...

You know, that's a good point. When dwarven politics gets more civil then human politics... And Anora has Alistair executed not at the Landsmeet itself...why are Alistair and possibly the Warden the only ****s who won't bow to common decency?

I never liked that part either. He tells you to off Loghain so his blood splatters on his daughters dress, even when you convinced him to marry her.

That said, I tend to gve Alistair (and the Warden) the benefit of doubt, as it's more of a game plot thing, than the story. I belive it was simply a matter of the developers wanting to cram as much drama as possible into it. They wanted to make sure the player had the choice of killing him or not at the duel and they wanted Loghain to have a really cool last line to say, but at the same time they had to keep Alistairs (or the Wardens) hands clean, if he is to be able to marry Anora, which only works if you kill Loghain before he becomes King.

If they sentence Loghain to be beheaded, after a King or a Queen is chosen, then it's no longer the Warden to decides LOghain fate, and it would probably be impossible to have Alistair marry Anora as they would start a civil war over the question if he should be pardoned or not. the second they got elected.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 08 mai 2010 - 07:02 .

[Sarah1281]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

We don't have executions in the books, well not proper executions.

We do have Maric killing Katriel and Bann Ceorlic, by gutting them like pigs.

The Couslands hang the Arl before Rendon Howe when they take Harper's Ford. I don't know when and where Maric killed Ceorlic but his killing of Katriel was hardly at an official political location such as the Assembly or the Landsmeet.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Massamies wrote...

Well, Alistair and Harrowmont deserved less to get executed than Loghain.

In your opinion.

[Tirigon]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Any Bann that would ally with Orlais against Loghain, will be imediately despised and hated by everyone.

But he would be quite liked by the side that is most probably going to win aka Orlais. That IS a strong reason to put personal differences with them aside.

[Costin_Razvan]

You honestly think that people really give a **** if they don't have a hope in war? They are going to fight for their freedom and independence, and everyone knows that Orlais treats everyone like ****.



Poland had no hope in WW2, yet they fought like madmen. Even to the point they contributed the third biggest manpower while their country was occupied.