277 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarah1281]

If they sentence Loghain to be beheaded, after a King or a Queen is chosen, then it's no longer the Warden to decides LOghain fate, and it would probably be impossible to have Alistair marry Anora as they would start a civil war over the question if he should be pardoned or not. the second they got elected.

I think that would only be an issue once the coronation occurred, which is post-Blight. They still technically have no rule until then although they listen to Anora/Alistair as the soon-to-be monarch. If the Warden gets to decide his fate at the Landsmeet via immediate execution or joining the Wardens (which took place after the Landsmeet so you can clearly make a decision that will be carried out later) , why not order him executed after the Landsmeet was over and not gutted? If that was the Landsmeet's decision and Anora wasn't official yet she couldn't stop it.

[Tirigon]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Even Bhelen had the courtesy to execute Harrowmont outside the Assembly. If Loghain deserves to die (and I do not believe that), then he is at least entitled to a proper death.

I think being killed in place after a honorous duel for life and death is a more honorable death than being taken to  execution somewhere.

I actually wish you had the chance to ignore his capitulation (it IS a duel to death after all, and if you loose you can´t surrender either) and just kill him with a nice finishing blow in the duel.

That would be best for everyone.

[Tirigon]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Considering that when Anora calls for Alistair's execution she has guards take him away to do it later rather than having someone gut him right there, I think what Bhelen did is more in line with protocol that what Alistair does.

Maybe Anora takes Alistair to Fort Drakon to torture him to death. Seeing Loghain´s and Howe´s policy I think THAT´s what the Fereldens see as "in line with protocol".

[Sarah1281]

I actually wish you had the chance to ignore his capitulation (it IS a duel to death after all, and if you loose you can´t surrender either) and just kill him with a nice finishing blow in the duel.

You can. That's the 'killing him' option. If you accept his surrender and don't listen to Alistair's complaints then he becomes a GW.

[Costin_Razvan]

 

Maybe Anora takes Alistair to Fort Drakon to torture him to death. Seeing Loghain´s and Howe´s policy I think THAT´s what the Fereldens see as "in line with protocol".

I only have one thing to say to that: He is an idiot.

[Tirigon]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

You honestly think that people really give a **** if they don't have a hope in war? They are going to fight for their freedom and independence, and everyone knows that Orlais treats everyone like ****.

Poland had no hope in WW2, yet they fought like madmen. Even to the point they contributed the third biggest manpower while their country was occupied.

Big difference: Hitler did not allow an alliance because he considered Polish to be worthless filth.

The Orlaisians consider Fereldens to be worthless filth, too, but they would allow for an alliance.

[Costin_Razvan]

The Orlaisians consider Fereldens to be worthless filth, too, but they would allow for an alliance.

You think the Fereldans are so stupid to think that things would be good for them? Hah. Even the nobles who served Orlais best got hanged.

[Sarah1281]

Big difference: Hitler did not allow an alliance because he considered Polish to be worthless filth.



The Orlaisians consider Fereldens to be worthless filth, too, but they would allow for an alliance.

But most of the people in charge were either part of the rebellion or otherwise were alive during the end of the occupation. Orlais isn't going to be getting any goodwill with them anytime soon. As it happens, the Chantry's position is weaker in Ferelden than in other countries because they supported the occupation until nearly the very end. Why in the world WOULD the nobles want to support the rebellion? Most of them were deposed in favor of Orlesian families, anyway.

[Tirigon]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

 

Maybe Anora takes Alistair to Fort Drakon to torture him to death. Seeing Loghain´s and Howe´s policy I think THAT´s what the Fereldens see as "in line with protocol".

I only have one thing to say to that: He is an idiot.

Thanks for pointless insults. And what is your video supposed to prove? They take him away, and you don´t know what they do with him afterwards........

[Costin_Razvan]

That he deserves whatever he get's. Insults at a video game character are to be taken seriously, by all means!

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 08 mai 2010 - 07:19 .

[Tirigon]

Sarah1281 wrote...
Why in the world WOULD the nobles want to support the rebellion? Most of them were deposed in favor of Orlesian families, anyway.

To avoid being deposed or even killed.


There are 2 possibilities: Either Orlais can overrun Feredlen without trouble - but you said that wouldn´t be the case - or they can´t.

In the second case Celene will be wise enough to ally with as many nobles as possible, and most nobles will accept the offer as soon as they see the alternative is death. With few exceptions, to most people surviving and power means more than National Pride.

[Costin_Razvan]

How fortuitous you know exactly how nobles will react Tirigon, and that Fereldan would lose. We are speculating yet you present your arguments as facts.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 08 mai 2010 - 07:21 .

[Tirigon]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

That he deserves whatever he get's. Insults at a video game character are to be taken seriously, by all means!

Well I thought the idiot was meant to me.


I do not see how this proves he gets what he deserves: Let´s see what he did....

• wanting the man who killed Duncan and betrayed the Wardens dead (but not even murdering him here but trying to get justice)
• Constant whining and complaining throughout the game
• having a bad humour

While I can see why this can make people not to like him, I doubt any of that justifies execution.....

[Tirigon]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

How fortuitous you know exactly how nobles will react Tirigon, and that Fereldan would lose. We are speculating yet you present your arguments as facts.

I don´t know how Fereldan nobles think, but I know how most people in RL think. I´m assuming a Fereldan Noble would act similarily.

And that Ferelden would loose a war is a premise to this entire discussion - if they wouldn´t, there was no reason not to wait for Orlaisian troops (like Cailan wanted) to start with.

[phaonica]

Tirigon wrote...

With few exceptions, to most people surviving and power means more than National Pride.

That's like saying people would rather be safe than free. That's fine if you actually think that the Orlesians will allow the Ferelden's their freedom, but they don't exactly have a history of that.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Tirigon wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

That he deserves whatever he get's. Insults at a video game character are to be taken seriously, by all means!

Well I thought the idiot was meant to me.


I do not see how this proves he gets what he deserves: Let´s see what he did....

• wanting the man who killed Duncan and betrayed the Wardens dead (but not even murdering him here but trying to get justice)
• Constant whining and complaining throughout the game
  
• having a bad humour

While I can see why this can make people not to like him, I doubt any of that justifies execution.....

[*]Declaring his intentions to desert if he doesn't get his way. Justifies execution for me.

[Tirigon]

phaonica wrote...

That's like saying people would rather be safe than free.

Unfortunately, this is the case - at least with the majority of voters in Germany. But let´s avoid real world politics as far as possible.

That's fine if you actually think that the Orlesians will allow the Ferelden's their freedom, but they don't exactly have a history of that.

They wouldn´t. But they would allow the nobles who ally with them to rule - as their vassals only, but I guess said nobles prefer being vassals to being dead.

[Costin_Razvan]

Unfortunately, this is the case - at least with the majority of voters in Germany. But let´s avoid real world politics as far as possible.

One thing is political votes influenced by propaganda, another is choosing to defend your land or not.

 [*]Declaring his intentions to desert if he doesn't get his way. Justifies execution for me.

Exactly! That fact he is not consistent kills him for me. The whole game before that point, and I mean the FULL GAME, he will stick with you no matter what. The only decision he ever questions loudly is if you kill Connor/Isolde, and even then you can tell him to rub it and he won't make any fuss about it afterward. Hardened or not.

Then at th Landsmeet he suddenly man's up, and DEMANDS to be king just to EXECUTE Loghain? What the **** is that **** Bioware.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 08 mai 2010 - 07:32 .

[Tirigon]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

[*]Declaring his intentions to desert if he doesn't get his way. Justifies execution for me.

All right.
I was always against conscripting people against their will, though, so it doesn´t do so for me.

[Sarah1281]

Tirigon wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...


[*]Declaring his intentions to desert if he doesn't get his way. Justifies execution for me.

All right.
I was always against conscripting people against their will, though, so it doesn´t do so for me.

Alistair wasn't conscripted because he didn't want to be a Warden but because th Chantry didn't want to let him go. He wasn't forced to be a Warden he only leaves if he has a hissy-fit about Loghain.

[Tirigon]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

One thing is political votes influenced by propaganda, another is choosing to defend your land or not.

WW2, French collaborators with Germany in the Vichy government.

[Costin_Razvan]

Most of France did fight against the **** regime though, Of course some stood with them but not so many.

[Tirigon]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Most of France did fight against the **** regime though, Of course some stood with them but not so many.

And I NEVER claimed all or even the majority of nobles would ally with Orlais. But some would, and as Orlais has the stronger army anyways and isn´t weakened by the Blight that would probably be enough.

[phaonica]

Tirigon wrote...

phaonica wrote...

That's like saying people would rather be safe than free.

Unfortunately, this is the case - at least with the majority of voters in Germany. But let´s avoid real world politics as far as possible.

That's fine if you actually think that the Orlesians will allow the Ferelden's their freedom, but they don't exactly have a history of that.

They wouldn´t. But they would allow the nobles who ally with them to rule - as their vassals only, but I guess said nobles prefer being vassals to being dead.

You don't know they'd allow the nobles to continue to rule. 

And  "I'm a slave, but at least I'm alive" is ok for Ferelden, but not for the alienage? What?

[phaonica]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...



[*]Declaring his intentions to desert if he doesn't get his way. Justifies execution for me.

Desertion is generally bad, but I need Alistair. If I'd been givin the chance to try to talk him down, I would have taken him back.