35 réponses à ce sujet

[badkenbad]

yoda23 wrote...

Also I do find odd its a claim by IMG Media UK as EA does that on their own and not by 3rd party members ...its not as if they can claim copyright over a EA Game.

It appears as if IMG Media UK is working on behalf of EA. Check here.

I did check the IMG Media UK site, and I did a fairly thorough search of their licensable content. I looked for any kind of video games, anything by EA, anything related to video game criticism, culture or technology. I found nothing. That doesn't mean there's absolutely nothing there, but their online catalog doesn't have anything. I'm fairly certain this is a glitch in Google's digital media fingerprinting and not an actual match with content to which IMG Media UK owns rights.


@Ecael: thanks much for that link... I was wondering myself what sort of Bioware comments were here on the forums. In fact I've been working on some class comparison videos, so maybe mine will be on that list soon.


@yoda23: I think it's a bit disingenuous to say that message doesn't condone using copyrighted content on YouTube. She is encouraging players to make gameplay videos and share them. I'm fairly certain that any such use is fair use, but I still have not found a specific reference that says gameplay videos are fair use.

The closest comparison I've been able to think of is music composition software. If someone uses music composition software to produce a song, that is not an infringement of the software publisher's rights. Even if the song uses specific features (sounds, rhythms, automated digital processing) unique to the software, it's your song.

It's not a perfect analogy, but I think it's close enough. Gameplay videos are not infringing the copyright of the game--they are showing someone's unique approach to using the game. Ripping conversations, music and cinematics from the game is a separate issue. That is more like using musical clips or samples in the composition software analogy. You need specific permission to use things like that, unless you are doing it via fair use (i.e. for non-profit education, criticism or commentary).

I really wish EA had a clear policy on this.

Modifié par badkenbad, 19 mai 2010 - 06:18 .

[yoda23]

badkenbad wrote...

yoda23 wrote...

Also I do find odd its a claim by IMG Media UK as EA does that on their own and not by 3rd party members ...its not as if they can claim copyright over a EA Game.

It appears as if IMG Media UK is working on behalf of EA. Check here.

I did check the IMG Media UK site, and I did a fairly thorough search of their licensable content. I looked for any kind of video games, anything by EA, anything related to video game criticism, culture or technology. I found nothing. That doesn't mean there's absolutely nothing there, but their online catalog doesn't have anything. I'm fairly certain this is a glitch in Google's digital media fingerprinting and not an actual match with content to which IMG Media UK owns rights.


@Ecael: thanks much for that link... I was wondering myself what sort of Bioware comments were here on the forums. In fact I've been working on some class comparison videos, so maybe mine will be on that list soon.


@yoda23: I think it's a bit disingenuous to say that message doesn't condone using copyrighted content on YouTube. She is encouraging players to make gameplay videos and share them. I'm fairly certain that any such use is fair use, but I still have not found a specific reference that says gameplay videos are fair use.

The closest comparison I've been able to think of is music composition software. If someone uses music composition software to produce a song, that is not an infringement of the software publisher's rights. Even if the song uses specific features (sounds, rhythms, automated digital processing) unique to the software, it's your song.

It's not a perfect analogy, but I think it's close enough. Gameplay videos are not infringing the copyright of the game--they are showing someone's unique approach to using the game. Ripping conversations, music and cinematics from the game is a separate issue. That is more like using musical clips or samples in the composition software analogy. You need specific permission to use things like that, unless you are doing it via fair use (i.e. for non-profit education, criticism or commentary).

I really wish EA had a clear policy on this.

I suppose I need to clarify a bit lest I be considered disingenuous... Ms. Norman's request was for game-play video that best exemplifies the Character classes in ME2. I believe her intention was to promote the USE of the various classes in the game. Her call for game-play videos is radically different from an explicit statement of "Fair Use" which, despite your analogy, she did not provide. There is nothing of the sort in her post. It is incorrect to consider an implied approval of Fair Use from her posting as it contains none. Indeed the last time I checked the game and it's content are protected by Copyright and/or Trademark reservations on the packaging...

Regarding the site IMG Media UK, you are probably correct, it is "probably" a glitch. I would not, however, be very surprised if BioEA had indeed contracted a company of IMG's size and scope to police BioEA's content online. I would suspect, if BioEA did contract with IMG, that they would not want that information made public. I am, however, certain IMG does not post the names of all of their clients online for public consumption.

Now if, and it is a big IF, BioEA is policing their contact online then I would assume the days of creating your own content from Copyrighted games are over. At least over for the Machinima crowd or those who stand to make some sort of profit from the distribution of BioEA's content. Now I am not sure this is the case, again I said IF... but, nevertheless, with the increasing DRM we are seeing in the latest releases of top titles, it is a fair assumption that the content these good folks are creating is being protected in one manner or another from unauthorized or improper use. What exactly the "unauthorized use" is remains to be seen. This line is a bit grey. It would seem, however, that those folks that are publishing a large amount of content from their games onto YouTube are being dealt with in a severe manner. (See the earlier post regarding someone's account being terminated by YouTube.)

Now I fully understand your argument but I would use the Adobe Photoshop application as a better analogy for what you are trying to convey. Despite your claim though, neither your music software nor the Adobe analogy holds in this particular instance. It does not hold because the PRIMARY intent of BioEA's software (ME2) is not to provide content creation tools to their users. Even DAO, despite its module creation tool, is not designed to be such as the primary reason for its software to be in existence. i.e. User content creation is not the main business goal for the application. In the case of ME2 it is even less so because BioEA does not provide any authorship tools with the title. In Ms. Norman's instance she did recommend a screen capture application to submit examples or samples of character class game-play to her for distribution. She did not, however, specifically indicate how to provide the content to her for inclusion in her list. Luckily she was very specific in her request for sample video. Therefore I am not in agreement that her post was an explicit approval to capture lots of video from ME2 and post it onto YouTube. I think her post was MUCH more innocent that that.

[badkenbad]

Christina Norman wants people to post threads with gameplay videos so that more people can see different classes in action. The only way end users can make gameplay videos is to record themselves playing the game. To me, the statement "Please PM me links to threads with videos you think should go in this list. I will generally be taking videos that the community thin[k]s represent the classes well." is definitely encouraging players to make and share videos.

What I meant when I wrote "it's probably fair use" was not that she's giving general permission to use Mass Effect IP. I meant that to my mind, creating a video that demonstrates the gameplay of a specific class is already fair use as defined by copyright law. It is non-commercial; it is a small part of the game (less than ten minutes of a twenty hour game); it does not have a negative impact on the market for, or value of the game--in fact quite the opposite. All of that adds up to Fair Use, regardless of what EA or Christina Norman or anyone else other than a Federal judge has to say about it.

However, what I think about it is immaterial. I am not a copyright attorney, I am not a federal judge, I'm just a Bioware fanboy. Until we are given explicit permission by the copyright holder to use their IP as Microsoft has done with their Game Content Usage Rules, or until someone publishes some legal decisions that support gameplay videos as fair use, it's up in the air.

I have no problem with walking that tightrope, though, because I'm pretty sure the law is on my side.

As far as the original episode that prompted this thread in the first place--IMG Media UK has run out of time to sue me under the DMCA. Therefore, their takedown request is invalid, and YouTube will probably be restoring my video in a few days. I may never know the real reason for the takedown, but I can only assume by their lack of action that it was a misidentified video.

I disagree that "the days of creating your own content from Copyrighted games are over." I believe the opposite is true. Machinima and commented gameplay videos from places like gamereplays.org are becoming more and more popular. Not long ago it was only the purview of people who were able to hack and mod FPS and RPG games to do what they wanted. After Red vs. Blue and the zillions of World of Warcraft videos out there, it's practically mainstream now. Not only that, but the game publishers are very supportive. Both Microsoft and Blizzard explicitly permit the crazy uses to which their IP has been put. The only important caveats are that it must be non-commercial use, it must be T-rated, and it must not include anything illegal.

Again, it's discouraging to me that neither EA in general nor Bioware specifically have similar policies in place that allow people to make non-commercial T-rated videos using their games.

Modifié par badkenbad, 20 mai 2010 - 12:10 .

[yoda23]

badkenbad wrote...

as defined by copyright law

Thanks for the link! 

[vhatever]

I've got like a dozen ME videos on youtube. For the life of me I can't see how gameplay clip could be removed. Unless, of course, the gameplay was the gameplay footage released by someone from the company and you merely copied it or portions of it. If you do your own gameplay video you shouldn't have any issue. It's like saying if I made a picture in MS paint I could get sued by MS for copyright infringement.

Modifié par vhatever, 20 mai 2010 - 02:37 .

[Tlazolteotl]

yoda23 wrote...

badkenbad wrote...

as defined by copyright law

Thanks for the link! 

I think badkenbad is in error on this subject, though.
Fair use may or may not apply to the use of dialogue and cutscenes in order to be a context for gameplay.

Gameplay itself, however ... 

Let me put it this way:
Kasparov has a video of himself playing chess. Is he breaching copyright law?
My cousin playing in a soccer match.
Footage of a counterstrike or starcraft or super street fighter 4 tournament.

The only copyright breaches here, when gameplay is concerned, would be against the people with the rights to record and broadcast the event.

Therefore, assuming IMG Media UK has rights to the dialogue and/or cutscenes of ME2 (or are acting on behalf of those who do), then there is still a fair use argument to be made.

However, giving consideration to the evidence at hand, such as:
The seemingly random copyright claims ... Why one particular video and not the rest in the series?
Inconsistency with the rest of the content IMG Media UK actually handles.
The automated system ... I had a video flagged as copyright infringement while it was private and had 0 views.

I am almost certain there's no actual infringement here. At all.
Just youtube ****ing up.

[badkenbad]

I got official word back from YouTube tonight. IMG Media UK has not responded to my DMCA counter-notification, so my video has been reinstated and my YouTube account is once again in good standing.

As sort of a CYA, I decided to include the following notice in all my gameplay video descriptions. One thing I learned while researching fair use is that giving proper credit, or at least not claiming someone else's work as your own, is an important element of fair use. So...

"NOTICE: This video is intended as a commentary and guide to gameplay in Mass Effect 2. I claim no right, title or interest in any Mass Effect 2 intellectual property, including characters, storyline, images, photographs, animations, video, music or text. I provided only commentary, gameplay agency, and editing of recorded gameplay video and sound."

Modifié par badkenbad, 21 mai 2010 - 02:11 .

[Tlazolteotl]

Hmm. Well, insofar as the entire fiasco goes, I'm certain it was an error on youtube's part.

Good idea with the disclaimer, though. In case the real copyright holders take issue.

[yoda23]

badkenbad wrote...

I got official word back from YouTube tonight. IMG Media UK has not responded to my DMCA counter-notification, so my video has been reinstated and my YouTube account is once again in good standing.

As sort of a CYA, I decided to include the following notice in all my gameplay video descriptions. One thing I learned while researching fair use is that giving proper credit, or at least not claiming someone else's work as your own, is an important element of fair use. So...

"NOTICE: This video is intended as a commentary and guide to gameplay in Mass Effect 2. I claim no right, title or interest in any Mass Effect 2 intellectual property, including characters, storyline, images, photographs, animations, video, music or text. I provided only commentary, gameplay agency, and editing of recorded gameplay video and sound."

This is a really good idea. I just hope BioEA will allow the representation of their work as Fair Use. Good luck!

[Jazharah]

AntiChri5 wrote...

I have seen a thread where the gameplay designer encouraged people to upload clips to youtube and send her a link if they think their impressive.

Just to underline this one: Christina Norman, indeed, asked and encouraged people to make some vids of the engineer about a month after release. Which reminds me that now that I have a new comp, I should make a couple