242 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarah1281]

I have yet to understand why Anora insists on announcing that you're an elf/dwarf/mage...What does she say if you're a Cousland? 'This is a member of the second-most powerful family in Ferelden and possibly my betrothed elevated to the ranks of the GW'? Doesn't quite have the same effect...

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

She just says "this woman" (or man). Nothing about your family.

[Sarah1281]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

She just says "this woman" (or man). Nothing about your family.

'This is a woman', then? WOW she really thinks her audience is stupid, doesn't she? 

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

She just says "this woman" (or man). Nothing about your family.

'This is a woman', then? WOW she really thinks her audience is stupid, doesn't she? 

Eum, it is still a speech.
All speech makers assume those listening are idiots, as far as I know.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 06 mai 2010 - 03:11 .

[Sarah1281]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

She just says "this woman" (or man). Nothing about your family.

'This is a woman', then? WOW she really thinks her audience is stupid, doesn't she? 

Eum, it is still a speech.
All speech makers assume those listening are idiots, as far as I know.

Yes, but usually they assume that their audience can tell what gender/species the person they're talking about is.

[Raiil]

I would trust Anora to lead a nation economically and such, but when it comes to striking fire and faith into the hearts of men, well... to borrow a phrase from the game, when it comes to military matters, I wouldn't trust her to lead us to lunch.



I prefer Alistair giving the speech. It's more rousing to hear it from a man who spent the last year actually battling and knows the cost of war from first hand experience than from a woman who let herself get trapped by Howe and had to be rescued by a stranger. It's not Anora's fault that she's inexperienced in these sorts of matters, of course, but all things considered, I'd rather hear a professional soldier give that speech.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

It's possible, too, if your character is wearing a buttload of armor, their gender might not be as distinguishable, especially at a distance.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

It's possible, too, if your character is wearing a buttload of armor, their gender might not be as distinguishable, especially at a distance.

Or they could be butt ugly that it's simply not possible to figure the gender out.

[BigBad]

Far as I know, Anora and Alistair give the exact same speech, with the same variances depending on race/origin. Picking on her for the words in the speech itself but not Alistair is a bit of a double-standard. The issue, for me, is that Alistair has been fighting by my side at the front line and definitely acquitting himself well as both a Grey Warden and, after being hardened, as a potential leader. Anora, on the other hand, has spent the last year or so playing a rousing game of hide-and-seek, finishing off with a round of Damsel in Distress Syndrome. She has no credibility as a wartime leader or inspirational figure. She's a peacetime administrator and needs to stay far, far away from the front lines. When Alistair gives the speech, he feels it, and you can feel it because he's saying what he really believes. When Anora says it, there's no real belief there. She's saying it because it's what she thinks she's supposed to say.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

It's possible, too, if your character is wearing a buttload of armor, their gender might not be as distinguishable, especially at a distance.

Or they could be butt ugly that it's simply not possible to figure the gender out.

hence the heavy armor and lead-lined helmet to shield the audience from harm.

[DamnedEyez]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

It's possible, too, if your character is wearing a buttload of armor, their gender might not be as distinguishable, especially at a distance.

Or they could be butt ugly that it's simply not possible to figure the gender out.

hence the heavy armor and lead-lined helmet to shield the audience from harm.

Nah, I let it all hang out...so that the soldiers know the Grey Warden will strike fear into the hearts and minds of the darkspawn we are about to massacre.

You can usually hear them muttering "I'm glad he's on our side...that way we don't have to face him"

[Aisynia]

Valentia X wrote...

I would trust Anora to lead a nation economically and such, but when it comes to striking fire and faith into the hearts of men, well... to borrow a phrase from the game, when it comes to military matters, I wouldn't trust her to lead us to lunch.

I prefer Alistair giving the speech. It's more rousing to hear it from a man who spent the last year actually battling and knows the cost of war from first hand experience than from a woman who let herself get trapped by Howe and had to be rescued by a stranger. It's not Anora's fault that she's inexperienced in these sorts of matters, of course, but all things considered, I'd rather hear a professional soldier give that speech.

I prefer neither. I skip it every time.

Both voice actors are absolutely at their worst right there. I can barely listen to it.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Aisynia wrote...
I prefer neither. I skip it every time.

Both voice actors are absolutely at their worst right there. I can barely listen to it.

I agree that both of them are not great, though I personally wouldn't go as far as to say that I hate it.

But yea, after listening to Theoden's speeches in LOTR, no war speech could ever sound adequate enough.

[Sarah1281]

DamnedEyez wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

It's possible, too, if your character is wearing a buttload of armor, their gender might not be as distinguishable, especially at a distance.

Or they could be butt ugly that it's simply not possible to figure the gender out.

hence the heavy armor and lead-lined helmet to shield the audience from harm.

Nah, I let it all hang out...so that the soldiers know the Grey Warden will strike fear into the hearts and minds of the darkspawn we are about to massacre.

You can usually hear them muttering "I'm glad he's on our side...that way we don't have to face him"

Yeah, my dwarves always feel awkward when they're heading off away from the gates after the speech and there's this really loud shout of 'let's kill those godless bastards!' Ancestor worship isn't really the same as having a God, so...

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...
Yeah, my dwarves always feel awkward when they're heading off away from the gates after the speech and there's this really loud shout of 'let's kill those godless bastards!' Ancestor worship isn't really the same as having a God, so...

Yea, it gives a "exalted march incoming" kind of feeling.

If my Aeducan wasn't so ambitious, he would have screwed the army and left right there.

[asaiasai]

What kills me about that moment is not who gives the speech but the content of the speech. When Allistair/Anora gives the speech it is when they get to the part where either exclaims, "with out the heroism and bravery of this Warden none of us would be here" i always envision some chuckle head in the back of the crowd yelling, "so this is your fault, get em!". Too many Monty Python movies under my belt for my own good sometimes.



Asai

[Raiil]

Aisynia wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

I would trust Anora to lead a nation economically and such, but when it comes to striking fire and faith into the hearts of men, well... to borrow a phrase from the game, when it comes to military matters, I wouldn't trust her to lead us to lunch.

I prefer Alistair giving the speech. It's more rousing to hear it from a man who spent the last year actually battling and knows the cost of war from first hand experience than from a woman who let herself get trapped by Howe and had to be rescued by a stranger. It's not Anora's fault that she's inexperienced in these sorts of matters, of course, but all things considered, I'd rather hear a professional soldier give that speech.

I prefer neither. I skip it every time.

Both voice actors are absolutely at their worst right there. I can barely listen to it.

Really? I rather thought Steve Valentine did a commendable job, since he's not an actual soldier. Making that sort of rousing speech is more difficult than it seems for most people, unless you have charisma by the boatload. (Did I learn this the hard way? Oh, yes I did.) But I suppose that for me, the context of Alistair = man of war v. Anora = woman of politics had a lot to do with it.


That is just me, though. Background does colour things.

[Costin_Razvan]

I like her speech, except the part where she talks about the Warden, but that I equally hate on BOTH Alistair and Anora. And I would daresay Alistair does it FAR worse. ( on a dwarf at least )

Seriously, just let Loghain/Eamon do it. They have the voices for it.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 06 mai 2010 - 09:08 .

[Hyper Cutter]

It's kind of interesting that most of the hatred for Anora (and Isolde) seems to fall along gender lines, where they're mostly hated by women.

[Xandurpein]

I think it really hurt a bit to hear Anora giving the speech, but that didn't make me think it was bad from a roleplaying point of view. I could easily imagine Anora feel the pressure of doing something she really isn't her thing, giving public speeches, because she feels she has to, and probably cringing horribly inwardly too.

I have to say that I felt it to be a bit lazy of the writers to let her give almost the same speech as Alistair, although I suppose that in the case of Anora, she would just have someone else write what she was supposed to say.

I think that the reason so many women hate Anora has a lot to do with sterotypes in romantic fiction. One of the most common clichées is all romantic fiction is the good girl (PC) who likes the popular boy (Alistair), but he is engaged/boyfriend to the wealthy popular girl (Anora).

The fact that it's suggested in the game that Alistair should marry Anora to unify the country is what seals her doom for many women.

For further discussions about how different character's including Anora can be viewed depending on your gender and how you play, see this thread.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/127/index/2271948

Modifié par Xandurpein, 06 mai 2010 - 10:32 .

[IoCaster]

I've never heard Anora give that speech since I always choose Alistair. I'd really like to have the option to send Anora to the headsman. If only to make sure that she's not around to scheme and plot. She's a conniving snake and needs to be put down.

[Xandurpein]

IoCaster wrote...

I've never heard Anora give that speech since I always choose Alistair. I'd really like to have the option to send Anora to the headsman. If only to make sure that she's not around to scheme and plot. She's a conniving snake and needs to be put down.

The sad truth is that you can't send anyone to headsman. Only the King or Queen can do that at the Landsmeet. If you want to put someone on the throne who is willing to kill his or her political enemies just to be safe, you have to make Anora Queen.

There is a certain hypocricy when people think Anora is evil for wanting to kill Alistair to eliminate possible opposition, and then bemoan the fact that they can't behead Anora themselves when she is defeated.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 06 mai 2010 - 11:17 .

[IoCaster]

Xandurpein wrote...



There is a certain hypocricy(sic) when people think Anora is evil for wanting to kill Alistair to eliminate possible opposition, and then bemoan the fact that they can't behead Anora themselves when she is defeated.

Is this directed at me? If it is then it's certainly arrogant to make a baseless assumption about what another players motivation would be for the decisions that he/she might make.

[Xandurpein]

IoCaster wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...



There is a certain hypocricy(sic) when people think Anora is evil for wanting to kill Alistair to eliminate possible opposition, and then bemoan the fact that they can't behead Anora themselves when she is defeated.

Is this directed at me? If it is then it's certainly arrogant to make a baseless assumption about what another players motivation would be for the decisions that he/she might make.

That was a general observation. I can see as it can be seen as directed at you though, which I apologize for. It wasn't my intention.

[IoCaster]

Xandurpein wrote...

IoCaster wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...



There is a certain hypocricy(sic) when people think Anora is evil for wanting to kill Alistair to eliminate possible opposition, and then bemoan the fact that they can't behead Anora themselves when she is defeated.

Is this directed at me? If it is then it's certainly arrogant to make a baseless assumption about what another players motivation would be for the decisions that he/she might make.

That was a general observation. I can see as it can be seen as directed at you though, which I apologize for. It wasn't my intention.

Not a problem there amigo. I wasn't sure, so I asked. I'm certainly not looking to get into some meaningless forum debate about silly stuff like this.