242 réponses à ce sujet

[soignee]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I like her speech, except the part where she talks about the Warden, but that I equally hate on BOTH Alistair and Anora. And I would daresay Alistair does it FAR worse. ( on a dwarf at least )

Seriously, just let Loghain/Eamon do it. They have the voices for it.

He really, really does.
"THIS WOMAN IS A DWWWAAARF." ?

Thanks captain obvious!

[Xandurpein]

Hanz54321 wrote...

1) If you "harden" Alistair during his encounter with Goldanna and in the conversation afterwards at camp, he mans up. Before Landsmeet when asked if he thinks Anora (Annoya) should be queen he flat out says she's too much like Lohgain and too ambitious. He's taking the job because she's too dangerous. His behaviour at the Landsmeet is that of a political leader (he tells Annoya if he lives through the Archdemon she's headed to the gallows) and his epilogue stomps Annoya's

It is pointless to claim to "know" who's ending is best for Fereldan, Anora solo or Alistair solo. It all depends on what you believe is the definition of a good ruler. With Alistair there is less conflict between humans and elves, with Anora there is a stronger drive towards progress. I could make good arguments for why both are better than the other.

2) If you "harden" him up and have full coercion and 100 influence, you can convince them to get married. I've not seen the epilogue yet, but again, he shows his man cards. So far he's chewed me out for letting Lohgain live and flat out said that if Anora thinks she's going to rule by puppeting him like she did Cailan then she's got another thing coming. I'll probably finish this game path tonight.

You can get Alistair and Anora married regardless of whether Alistair is "hardened" or not. This tends to give the best overall ending, regardless. Anora's administrative skills and Alistair's empathy. Then only real difference politically seems to be that if he is hardened, Alistair can be persuaded to cheat on his wife.

The outsider is either Alistair or Anora marrying a Cousland, which is a wild card as the end cannot predict the players intentions, but seems to offer good endings either way, if the player is acting in good faith.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 06 mai 2010 - 02:34 .

[Annarl]

In my opinion Anora is okay. She just trying to stay on top the best way she can, I can understand that and admire it... to a point.



When she gives that speech her voice actor is yelling too much (again in my opinion) and it just doesn't sound right.

[Costin_Razvan]

Loghain probably could have done a speech to match Theoden's/Aragorn's. Just saying, and we see Eamon delivering quite a good speech at the Landsmeet.

[Xandurpein]

omearaee wrote...

In my opinion Anora is okay. She just trying to stay on top the best way she can, I can understand that and admire it... to a point.

When she gives that speech her voice actor is yelling too much (again in my opinion) and it just doesn't sound right.

Doesn't matter about the voice acting really. In my play her Cousland does all the speeches to the troops from then on

Modifié par Xandurpein, 06 mai 2010 - 02:59 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Hanz54321 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

And not to mention that her epilogue as ruler is more impressive than Alistair's. A grave sin.

Doiesn't have to be more impressive - see above.

There is nothing to see.

Expansion of trade, creation of a university, better administration undertaken by Anora is a more impressive rule, imo.

[Lupus Canivus]

I normally marry Anora (male Cousland) and send Alistair to.......  Or as female I get them both married and run away with Wayne and Leliana, great times!

[Carmen_Willow]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Gilsa wrote...

And when does that "slap Alistair's hand away" happen? I've married him off to Anora twice and I have not seen this happen. Does Loghain have to be dead at Landsmeet for this to trigger in that joint-marriage version?

I think so. It happens in the coronatio cut-scene; he tries to grab her hand and she pulls it away when they're climbing the stairs to be crowned rulers. And maybe it isn't just her being evil, maybe he had sweaty hands? He was probably nervous. And they hardly know each other and she doesn't seem the type to be big on PDA. Why do people assume that this means Alistair is in for a living nightmare? 

Because body language speaks a thousand hidden words, even when we don't realize it consciously.  The refusal to hold his hand says more about her feelings and  their future relationship than any words can ever do. 

[Addai]

Sarah1281 wrote...

How could I possibly hate Anora when there are no options to kill Vartag (well, not without hunting him down after supporting Harrowmont) and, more to the point, Ivo? At least Anora only betrays you if you're being an idiot. 

Anora betrays you if you don't sufficiently kiss up to her, even though you risked your life to free her and she gives an unconditional promise at that time and later on to support you regardless of whom you back for the throne.

If not playing her little games and telling her straight up that you support Alistair's bid over hers is "being an idiot," then what you're saying is that the crooked and craven deserve to rule simply because they're crooked and craven.

Modifié par Addai67, 06 mai 2010 - 03:47 .

[Sarah1281]

Addai67 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

How could I possibly hate Anora when there are no options to kill Vartag (well, not without hunting him down after supporting Harrowmont) and, more to the point, Ivo? At least Anora only betrays you if you're being an idiot. 

Anora betrays you if you don't sufficiently kiss up to her, even though you risked your life to free her and she gives an unconditional promise at that time and later on to support you regardless of whom you back for the throne.

If not playing her little games and telling her straight up that you support Alistair's bid over hers is "being an idiot," then what you're saying is that the crooked and craven deserve to rule simply because they're crooked and craven.

You don't need to kiss up to her. Just don't blow her cover when she asks you not to at Howe's (if Anora were really in danger, though I'm not sure she was, then how does saying 'oh, look, Anora's right here!' going to help matters?), don't tell her you want to murder her father no matter what other alternatives might present themselves, and tell her you will support her.

Yeah, she lies that she'll support you if you let her know you're siding against her but she has no reason not to if you're not going to help her. You're interests are opposed. Is it horribly ****y to promise her suppot to get her votes at the Landsmeet and double-cross her there? Lots of people do that and nobody ever calls them on it.

[Addai]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Yeah, she lies that she'll support you if you let her know you're siding against her but she has no reason not to if you're not going to help her. You're interests are opposed. Is it horribly ****y to promise her suppot to get her votes at the Landsmeet and double-cross her there? Lots of people do that and nobody ever calls them on it.

So how does being honest= "being an idiot"?

I will sometimes play a PC that has the political guile to play Anora's game on her own terms, but I prefer to lay the cards out on the table and show up Anora's (lack of) character and Loghain's ruthlessness.  If my PC says "we can make common cause to take down your father but I still have to support Alistair's bid," that is just being straight.

[Costin_Razvan]

In politics being honest = being an idiot.

[Addai]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

In politics being honest = being an idiot.

Then you get the country you deserve, and by all means leave Anora on the throne.

[Costin_Razvan]

Harrowmont is honest, and look how well that turns out for him.

[Addai]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Harrowmont is honest, and look how well that turns out for him.

The situations are not comparable.  Anora and Loghain still lose even if you oppose them via the honest route.  Granted, that is game mechanics, but in RL situations, a political coup can fail if the poltician fails to gain the upper hand in military strength.  If Anora betrays you in the LM, you win via muscle and the sword.

Modifié par Addai67, 06 mai 2010 - 04:57 .

[Addai]

Hanz54321 wrote...

Nods - Behlen understood Orizimaar politics, economics, and the greed of others better, Hence he was a better ruler. I still tend to go w Harrowmount because I like "good", but Behlen is the better ruler in a society where violence in the street and shady trade are a way of life.

Still can't bring myself to side w Branka yet. I need to do that. Play a total pragmatist once.

Well, if you do, you'll see your "better ruler" making unwilling golems.  Unless you convince Branka to destroy the anvil (and kill herself).

[Addai]

Orzammar's situation is not the same as that of the human kingdom, however, so it's really a side trail.

[Sarah1281]

Harrowmont is honest, and look how well that turns out for him.

Honest? You mean like when he was buying two votes with one piece of land? He's just politer.

So how does being honest= "being an idiot"?



I will sometimes play a PC that has the political guile to play Anora's game on her own terms, but I prefer to lay the cards out on the table and show up Anora's (lack of) character and Loghain's ruthlessness. If my PC says "we can make common cause to take down your father but I still have to support Alistair's bid," that is just being straight.

Simple. Anora wants to keep her throne. She feels her father should be taken out of power for whatever reason (thinks she's overly paranoid, it's politically expedient with the Landsmeet coming up to hedge her bets, he's stealing her power, ect.) She doesn't really believe that so few Wardens can stop the Blight, as she tells you after the coronation if she's on the throne, and she certainly doesen't know that they're necessary.



One way or another, this Landsmeet will end the civil war. If they side with you then Anora has a better chance of staying on the throne if you don't outright hate her and that's why she asks if you'll support her. If Loghain wins then his regency has been legitimized and she'll still technically be on the throne as he has no intention of removing her. She can worry about wresting back power from him after she ensures she's not booted from the throne and the Blight is taken care of. Everyone else, remember, decided to just leave Ferelden to its fate. If the Landsmeet decided on Loghain then they would have to convince him to use the armies to go after the BLIGHT and not the border but he seemed to finally recognize it as a credible threat by the time the Landsmeet had rolled around and the south had fallen anyway. If it weren't for the fact that only a GW could kill the Archdemon, the Blight could have been taken care of that way with Alistair and the Warden off dead or in Fort Drakon somewhere.



Why would you really expect her to support you in your bid to depose her anyway?