242 réponses à ce sujet

[soignee]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Harrowmont is honest, and look how well that turns out for him.

Honest? You mean like when he was buying two votes with one piece of land? He's just politer.
 

BACK TO DWARF SCHOOL FOR YOUUUU.

The papers Vartag gives you as evidence is forged. Go to the Shaperate after and talk to shaper there about it. Naughty Bhelen is being naughty again.

[Loc'n'lol]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Harrowmont is honest, and look how well that turns out for him.

Honest? You mean like when he was buying two votes with one piece of land? He's just politer.

He wasn't. The documents were forged.
EDIT: and someone beat me to it.

Modifié par _Loc_N_lol_, 06 mai 2010 - 05:58 .

[Sarah1281]

I know that.  It's just the only thing in-game that makes it seem like he's not a useless saint, which you can't tell me is realistic given he can end up King. And I'm not entirely sure I trust the Shapers word anyway since he has an interest in Harrowmont becoming King (that and I've never checked to make sure it was real because who really cares if it's genuine or not? The point is to meet with Bhelen).

[ejoslin]

See, even though those documents were forged, there is SOMETHING hinky. I mean, Harrowmont IS bribing people for votes.

[CalJones]

I normally get the Anora speech as Alistair doesn't usually make it past Landsmeet in my games. It doesn't offend me but the pitch hurts my eardrums a little. I agree with Costin that Loghain would have been far more awesome, but he's been a naughty boy by that point and lost the chance to give rallying speeches. It makes me sad that there's no "side with Loghain" option at Landsmeet - that would have made a great renegade option (to borrow from ME terminology).

[Sarah1281]

CalJones wrote...

I normally get the Anora speech as Alistair doesn't usually make it past Landsmeet in my games. It doesn't offend me but the pitch hurts my eardrums a little. I agree with Costin that Loghain would have been far more awesome, but he's been a naughty boy by that point and lost the chance to give rallying speeches. It makes me sad that there's no "side with Loghain" option at Landsmeet - that would have made a great renegade option (to borrow from ME terminology).

Of course there isn't. He wants you dead for being an Orlesian spy. He would never trust that decision and if  you're going to just side with him there's no point in  having a Landsmeet.

You'd just show up, Loghain would insist Orlais was the threat and then you'd just say we should keep him in charge. Or you could win the Landsmeet and duel him and then after you've proven he should step down say that you changed your mind and he's awesome. It wouldn't really work...

[Addai]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Why would you really expect her to support you in your bid to depose her anyway?

That's not the point.  If you intend to put Alistair on the throne, you are only making common cause with Anora to remove Loghain from the regency and then it is up to the Landsmeet to decide who rules.  Being up front with her about the fact that your alliance with her only goes so far =/ being an idiot.  You might choose to go the honest route because you're confident in Alistair's bid, for example, or simply out of principle.

Anora seems to know a great deal about the Wardens, for instance about the risks of the Joining.  It is possible she doesn't know that in opposing you she is very likely dooming her country, but in other contexts she will tell you that she knows the Grey Wardens are necessary to stop a Blight.  Basically, Anora is only lying when her lips are moving.  It's player's choice which of her bendable realities you choose to believe.

[DrAbysmal]

Be-fore US - stands the might of the Darkspawn - HORDE. Gaze upon them now, but fear them NOT!

[CalJones]

Sarah - yeah I know it's not practical. Doesn't mean I don't wish it were possible to reason with him though. (Same as I wish you could talk Sarevok out of being a homicidal nutter in Baldur's Gate...but at least you get him in ToB).

[darkrose]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

I don't get why everyone hate's Anora's rousing speech. Sure, her voice is a tad irritating, but that speech is nowhere near in the league of abominable VO's as say Isolde or Marjolaine.

This. I want to strangle Isolde every time she opens her mouth. It's always so tempting to sacrifice her, just to shut her up.

[Sarah1281]

CalJones wrote...

Sarah - yeah I know it's not practical. Doesn't mean I don't wish it were possible to reason with him though. (Same as I wish you could talk Sarevok out of being a homicidal nutter in Baldur's Gate...but at least you get him in ToB).

Really, if you want to go that route the best thing to do is have more dialogue at Eamon's estate but then you have Howe, Eamon, and Alistair there to get pissed if you propose an alliance (especially if HN).

[IoCaster]

Sarah1281 wrote...

You don't need to kiss up to her. Just don't blow her cover when she asks you not to at Howe's (if Anora were really in danger, though I'm not sure she was, then how does saying 'oh, look, Anora's right here!' going to help matters?), don't tell her you want to murder her father no matter what other alternatives might present themselves, and tell her you will support her.

Yeah, she lies that she'll support you if you let her know you're siding against her but she has no reason not to if you're not going to help her. You're interests are opposed. Is it horribly ****y to promise her suppot to get her votes at the Landsmeet and double-cross her there? Lots of people do that and nobody ever calls them on it.

Not to single your post out intentionally, but it's my world and I don't care about Anora or her conniving games. It's all about kissing her ass and I'm not inclined to do any of that.  I'll hold the power to decide who gets the throne, one way or another, full stop. She isn't and will never be my choice, because she's not worthy, from my perspective.  This is straight from the narrative and an integral part of the game. BioWare put us in the drivers seat and I get to tailor my game experience the way I see fit.

A benevolent dictatorship is really just a totalitarian regime without organized resistance. Bismark is an excellent real world example and teaches us to be wary of those leaders that attempt to straddle the fence between government of the people (inalienable rights) and government over the people (wards of the state). The choice to let 'experts' and 'social engineers' hold the reigns of power in any society is an absolute recipe for disaster. That's the 'progressive' or 'collectivist' mindset that results in the worst possible quality of life for everyone except the privileged (nobles, apparatchiks) class.

No thanks and I'll take my chances with Alistair because I know exactly what type of scheming, conniving and self-absorbed b!tch Anora is. It's all about her sense of entitlement to rule and nothing about enabling the citizens of her country to plot their own course through life.

Modifié par IoCaster, 06 mai 2010 - 06:55 .

[Sarah1281]

What bothers me is not that people don't like her siding with Loghain (it's predictable and makes sense but still annoying) or not planning on supporting her but the fact that everyone insists she wants you to kiss her ass. She does nothing of the sort. She asks you to come speak with her instead of forcing a conversation and then she offers to help you if you keep her on the throne. All you have to do is say yes and she'll help you. You don't even have to carry through with it. She is proposing that you help each othre and in what universe does that translate to 'she wants you to kiss her ass'?

[Cuddlezarro]

It's all about kissing her ass

except you dont have to kiss her ass to get her to help you =/

[IoCaster]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

It's all about kissing her ass

except you dont have to kiss her ass to get her to help you =/

Can you refuse to rescue her? You can't tell her maid to go leap off a bridge and you've no interest in helping Anora do anything. That doesn't seem to work in my game, but if there's a way to do it please let me know.

[Sarah1281]

IoCaster wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

It's all about kissing her ass

except you dont have to kiss her ass to get her to help you =/

Can you refuse to rescue her? You can't tell her maid to go leap off a bridge and you've no interest in helping Anora do anything. That doesn't seem to work in my game, but if there's a way to do it please let me know.

That's because Eamon insists as he wants to see what she's playing at and on the off chance Howe kills her he might be blamed for it. Anora isn't even there. Oh, and you wouldn't have half the support you do at the Landsmeet without finding Alfstanna's brother and Sighard's son as well as the slavery in the Alienage and being able to secure the Chantry vote...annoying trap or not, Howe's estate is essential for you to have any evidence against Loghain at all.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 06 mai 2010 - 07:13 .

[Wolverine257]

ejoslin wrote...

See, even though those documents were forged, there is SOMETHING hinky. I mean, Harrowmont IS bribing people for votes.

Well it is dwarven politics, and he may well be prepared to buy a few votes to fulfill the wishes of his former king. I mean it's not like politicians in the real world don't buy votes is it...? Even if it's with their policies (that may or may not be implemented post election).

Anyway Anora is simple to manipulate anyway, just say you'll support her in the Landsmeet, then she'll discredit Loghain, which is all you really need, and you can then do whatever you like (eat that purported political genius <NOT!>).

As far as her speech the issue I have is it's just too shrill (it makes my ears want to bleed), it sounds like she's trying, which is not very effective. Alistair by contrast it doesn't sound like he's trying as badly, it's a bit stilted in places, but I think that's in character for Alistair.

[Cuddlezarro]

IoCaster wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

It's all about kissing her ass

except you dont have to kiss her ass to get her to help you =/

Can you refuse to rescue her? You can't tell her maid to go leap off a bridge and you've no interest in helping Anora do anything. That doesn't seem to work in my game, but if there's a way to do it please let me know.

Eamon is the one insiting you go rescue her because she could be a powerful ally and that they could easily fake evidence that places her death on you and him

thats not kissing her ass (oh and you need to deal with Howe any ways)

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 06 mai 2010 - 07:21 .

[Addai]

Sarah1281 wrote...

What bothers me is not that people don't like her siding with Loghain (it's predictable and makes sense but still annoying) or not planning on supporting her but the fact that everyone insists she wants you to kiss her ass. She does nothing of the sort. She asks you to come speak with her instead of forcing a conversation and then she offers to help you if you keep her on the throne. All you have to do is say yes and she'll help you. You don't even have to carry through with it. She is proposing that you help each othre and in what universe does that translate to 'she wants you to kiss her ass'?

I have never tried this, but if you are noncommittal in your talk with her or don't speak to her at all, will she side against you in the LM?

[Sarah1281]

Addai67 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

What bothers me is not that people don't like her siding with Loghain (it's predictable and makes sense but still annoying) or not planning on supporting her but the fact that everyone insists she wants you to kiss her ass. She does nothing of the sort. She asks you to come speak with her instead of forcing a conversation and then she offers to help you if you keep her on the throne. All you have to do is say yes and she'll help you. You don't even have to carry through with it. She is proposing that you help each othre and in what universe does that translate to 'she wants you to kiss her ass'?

I have never tried this, but if you are noncommittal in your talk with her or don't speak to her at all, will she side against you in the LM?

Yes as she assumes you'll support the candidate that you and Eamon are putting up to oppose her. I'm not sure you can be noncommital as she asks you straight out 'will you support me' and won't let it drop but you can just not bother going in to speak with her.

[IoCaster]

Sarah1281 wrote...

IoCaster wrote...



Can you refuse to rescue her? You can't tell her maid to go leap off a bridge and you've no interest in helping Anora do anything. That doesn't seem to work in my game, but if there's a way to do it please let me know.

That's because Eamon insists as he wants to see what she's playing at and on the off chance Howe kills her he might be blamed for it. Anora isn't even there. Oh, and you wouldn't have half the support you do at the Landsmeet without finding Alfstanna's brother and Sighard's son as well as the slavery in the Alienage and being able to secure the Chantry vote...annoying trap or not, Howe's estate is essential for you to have any evidence against Loghain at all.

That would work just fine with me because I want to kill Howe. It doesn't work as any kind of obligation to worry about Anora and/or her predicament to me. After Howe is dead she can do as she likes as far as I'm concerned. Any of the evidence that I gather in the estate is independent of my required rescue mission.

Unfortunately, I'm compelled to rescue the scheming skank and let her lie and stab me in the back. Understand one thing, I don't care about her supposed motive or any of that fanciful meta-gaming bullsh!t, I care about my PC. From my perspective, she's a lying, untrustworthy low life and I want nothing further to do with her.

[IoCaster]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

IoCaster wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

It's all about kissing her ass

except you dont have to kiss her ass to get her to help you =/

Can you refuse to rescue her? You can't tell her maid to go leap off a bridge and you've no interest in helping Anora do anything. That doesn't seem to work in my game, but if there's a way to do it please let me know.

Eamon is the one insiting you go rescue her because she could be a powerful ally and that they could easily fake evidence that places her death on you and him

thats not kissing her ass (oh and you need to deal with Howe any ways)

Right, now you're getting to the crux of it all. I'm not buying it. It's totally contrived and manipulated. I don't want to just go along with the writers if it doesn't make sense to me or my character. The writers need to do a better job of persuading me that this is the best course of action. Or at least getting me to believe that Anora is my best choice. If I don't buy into that argument why are some people on this forum so set on selling that concept on behalf of the developers?

[Costin_Razvan]

I think your kissing Eamon's ass more then you doing it for Anora, even if you support her.

[IoCaster]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I think your kissing Eamon's ass more then you doing it for Anora, even if you support her.

That may be the writers intent, but that would be a really 'crappy' motivation from the players perspective. Seriously.

[Costin_Razvan]

It's part of their way of giving player's choices but still maintaining the story line. I sorta miss the Old KOTOR 1 system, where you could tell anyone to sod off.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 06 mai 2010 - 08:08 .