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[Cuddlezarro]

Addai67 wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Alistair himself believes that, and she quite is.

Like when he is saying "make me king, Anora is not an option"?

Regardless, you're free to kiss Anora's ass as much as you like in your games.  Maybe it could even lead to true love. 

because every one who puts annoyras ass on the throne kisses her ass right <_<

[Addai]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Alistair himself believes that, and she quite is.

Like when he is saying "make me king, Anora is not an option"?

Regardless, you're free to kiss Anora's ass as much as you like in your games.  Maybe it could even lead to true love. 

because every one who puts annoyras ass on the throne kisses her ass right <_<

We've covered this already, but you have to or else she won't support you in the Landsmeet.  You might be doing so with duplicitous motives, but still... pucker up. 

[maxernst]

It's hard to kiss her ass while it's sitting on the throne, unless there's a hole in the throne.

Modifié par maxernst, 06 mai 2010 - 11:06 .

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Regardless, you're free to kiss Anora's ass as much as you like in your games.  Maybe it could even lead to true love. 

It is not fair to suggest that all those who put Anora on the throne are ass kissing, anymore than it is fair to say that all those who put Alistair on the throne are doing it from pure emotion with little thinking.

I personally believe Anora is a better ruler. Her capacities at manipulation only bolster this efficiency. And I also believe that Cousland / Anora is the best option (all strictly opinion, which I have explained in my Monarchic future thread). There is no ass kissery involved here.

We're talking about what you need to do in order to gain her support in the Landsmeet.  If you think she is the better ruler, then it is not really an issue for you, is it?

But you're a brave man to suggest that no ass-kissing is required for an Anora-Cousland marriage, since she won't agree to a marriage (with Cousland or Alistair) unless you agree to be her doormat.  Again, you might go into it with no such intention, but in order to win Anora's support, you have to tell her so.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I've never kissed her ass, and have put her on the throne quite often. And have no problems supporting her. None of the convo options with her seem to involve buttkissing, at least for females.



Males, dunno.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
But you're a brave man to suggest that no ass-kissing is required for an Anora-Cousland marriage, since she won't agree to a marriage (with Cousland or Alistair) unless you agree to be her doormat.  Again, you might go into it with no such intention, but in order to win Anora's support, you have to tell her so.

It's not ass kissery, but a political arrangement. Being King Consort =/= being her dormat, just like being Alistair's Queen consort =/= being his doormat. 

My Cousland has no right to the throne and the closest he can be is King Consort. His alliance with Anora is a political arrangement, where both take and give. Furthermore, as Teyrn of Gwaren, brother of the Teyrn of Highever and Commander of Ferelden's armies, I do not think that he would be a simple "doormat".  

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 06 mai 2010 - 11:13 .

[Addai]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

I've never kissed her ass, and have put her on the throne quite often. And have no problems supporting her. None of the convo options with her seem to involve buttkissing, at least for females.

Males, dunno.

Again, the issue is not what you do when you genuinely support Anora for the throne.

It's what you have to do in order to keep her from turning on you in the Landsmeet.

Upthread someone claimed that you never need to kiss Anora's ass in order to keep her from turning on you.  It may be a matter of interpretation, but clenching my teeth and saying "why yes Anora, you are what Ferelden needs, I will certainly support you" is... ass kissing.

[Addai]

Willowhugger wrote...

To be fair, I'm not sure whether Anora ever betrays you.

She's quite clear about what she will do.

(Husband posting)   I agree.   This is view on Anora in contrast to my wife (the anti-Anora main poster of the account).   I see Anora in D&D terms as being "true Neutral" with various nuances.    Kind of like a wild animal.   Not deliberately malicious like overtly evil creatures (Orcs, darkspawn) yet it could maul you if you provoke it.   But you could have also have an affectionate relationship with it like a wild animal tamer given the right bonding and carefully respecting its social rules.

Instead of foraging around for food, Anora is power and security driven.   If you threaten that its like trying to take a big steak away from a hungry grizzly bear... of course its going to try to maul you!  Of course if you respect that sort of thing you can get along the bear and even have it learn and perform circus tricks.   


In terms of alignment  I dont' see her any worse then Zevran.   A person whose loyalty also can easily shift depending who has the upper hand and the most gold.   The difference is Zev starts out with "affably evil" trope which soon switches to just "affably neutral".   While Anora has overly formal, stiff.     Outside of glibness and superficial charm I think a real case of moral equivalency could be made.    (The Zev fans I'm sure would disagree and point out his potential loyalty to the player in the end game with his personal quest vs. the Crows.    But I would see this as purely do the game mechanic of the approval meter.   I would suggest you would most likely see the same thing in Anora if all NPC likewise had approval meters and ratings).

Modifié par Addai67, 06 mai 2010 - 11:16 .

[Cuddlezarro]

Addai67 wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Alistair himself believes that, and she quite is.

Like when he is saying "make me king, Anora is not an option"?

Regardless, you're free to kiss Anora's ass as much as you like in your games.  Maybe it could even lead to true love. 

because every one who puts annoyras ass on the throne kisses her ass right <_<

We've covered this already, but you have to or else she won't support you in the Landsmeet.  You might be doing so with duplicitous motives, but still... pucker up. 

considering her intimacy issues and the fact im gay ther esure as hell isnt going to be any ass kissing plus being consort doesnt mean being her doormat like unhardened alistair would be

saying "ill support you" and "sure Ill spare daddy" isnt ass kissing if you wasnt planning to put alistair on the throne any ways and not every one goes into the landsmeet wanting to hack loghaings headoff like Alitsair does

hell Xander outright called her a B*tch in game thats so sucking up right =/ (infact I neve rhad to awnser the would you spare daddy questionb ecause she never asked it when i said I would support her if she married me)

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 06 mai 2010 - 11:16 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Addai67 wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

I've never kissed her ass, and have put her on the throne quite often. And have no problems supporting her. None of the convo options with her seem to involve buttkissing, at least for females.

Males, dunno.

Again, the issue is not what you do when you genuinely support Anora for the throne.

It's what you have to do in order to keep her from turning on you in the Landsmeet.

Upthread someone claimed that you never need to kiss Anora's ass in order to keep her from turning on you.  It may be a matter of interpretation, but clenching my teeth and saying "why yes Anora, you are what Ferelden needs, I will certainly support you" is... ass kissing.

Or, you could play a character that, to quote Branka, "could care less if they put a drunken monkey on the throne" and pics Anora with Alistair's blessing.

I've never had to tell her I think she's what ferelden needs, I just say, yeah, yeah, I'll support you, now will you STFU so we can stop the damned civil war and focus on what matters?"

Perspective, everything in perspective.

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
But you're a brave man to suggest that no ass-kissing is required for an Anora-Cousland marriage, since she won't agree to a marriage (with Cousland or Alistair) unless you agree to be her doormat.  Again, you might go into it with no such intention, but in order to win Anora's support, you have to tell her so.

It's not ass kissery, but a political arrangement. Being King Consort =/= being her dormat, just like being Alistair's Queen consort =/= being his doormat. 

My Cousland has no right to the throne and the closest he can be is King Consort. His alliance with Anora is a political arrangement, where both take and give. Furthermore, as Teyrn of Gwaren, brother of the Teyrn of Highever and Commander of Ferelden's armies, I do not think that he would be a simple "doormat".  

Well, I have never played a Cousland-Anora match, but from what I understand, just like with Alistair she makes it very clear to you ahead of time that she is in charge, and subsequent game indicators (epilogues, Loghain's dialogue in Awakening etc.) indicate that if the Cousland does not roll over on his own accord, that there is a power struggle.  Her experience with Cailan has soured her on the idea of co-ruler and she wants to make sure that she is top dog.

This is very different from the Alistair-femCousland relationship, even with a hardened Alistair (he will "defer a great deal to her" if she is chancellor, for instance), regardless of similarity in titles.

[Cuddlezarro]

during post corronation Anora pretty much outright states that the "consort" title is a techniqality at that point(if you pick the right option she also admits shes a little intimidated by you if you pick another)

you have way to much power for her to simply brush you aside

also I got no indication in awakenings that there was a power struggle between Xander and Annoyra(hell she actually SMILES when you return to court in awakening)

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 06 mai 2010 - 11:21 .

[Addai]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Or, you could play a character that, to quote Branka, "could care less if they put a drunken monkey on the throne" and pics Anora with Alistair's blessing.

I've never had to tell her I think she's what ferelden needs, I just say, yeah, yeah, I'll support you, now will you STFU so we can stop the damned civil war and focus on what matters?"

Perspective, everything in perspective.

In your head you were hand-waving, just as in my HNF's head she was saying "you've got another think coming you grasping harpy," but what you are agreeing to in the dialogue is another matter.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
Well, I have never played a Cousland-Anora match, but from what I understand, just like with Alistair she makes it very clear to you ahead of time that she is in charge, and subsequent game indicators (epilogues, Loghain's dialogue in Awakening etc.) indicate that if the Cousland does not roll over on his own accord, that there is a power struggle.  Her experience with Cailan has soured her on the idea of co-ruler and she wants to make sure that she is top dog.

This is very different from the Alistair-femCousland relationship, even with a hardened Alistair (he will "defer a great deal to her" if she is chancellor, for instance), regardless of similarity in titles.

Of course, since she is Queen Regnant and the Cousland is King Consort. That's how the titles work. But that is a political arrangement. Not ass kissery. And Alistair needs someone to do the administration for him and help him rule, Anora doesn't.

And no, the epilogue says that if both of them manage to work together, there wouldn';t be a power struggle. This does not necessarily imply that the Cousland is bending over to Anora. Compromising, yes, but not bending over to her. Compromise =/= ass kissing.

[Addai]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

also I got no indication in awakenings that there was a power struggle between Xander and Annoyra(hell she actually SMILES when you return to court in awakening)

I am going by Loghain's joking inference that you're in Amaranthine because Anora finally managed to get you out of court.

I have no doubt that in reality a male Cousland has a great deal of influence, just as in the one game where I (Maker help me) married Alistair to Anora, I was counting on a hardened Alistair balancing her out.

[Addai]

Addai67 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
But you're a brave man to suggest that no ass-kissing is required for an Anora-Cousland marriage, since she won't agree to a marriage (with Cousland or Alistair) unless you agree to be her doormat.  Again, you might go into it with no such intention, but in order to win Anora's support, you have to tell her so.

It's not ass kissery, but a political arrangement. Being King Consort =/= being her dormat, just like being Alistair's Queen consort =/= being his doormat. 

My Cousland has no right to the throne and the closest he can be is King Consort. His alliance with Anora is a political arrangement, where both take and give. Furthermore, as Teyrn of Gwaren, brother of the Teyrn of Highever and Commander of Ferelden's armies, I do not think that he would be a simple "doormat".  

Well, I have never played a Cousland-Anora match, but from what I understand, just like with Alistair she makes it very clear to you ahead of time that she is in charge, and subsequent game indicators (epilogues, Loghain's dialogue in Awakening etc.) indicate that if the Cousland does not roll over on his own accord, that there is a power struggle.  Her experience with Cailan has soured her on the idea of co-ruler and she wants to make sure that she is top dog.

This is very different from the Alistair-femCousland relationship, even with a hardened Alistair (he will "defer a great deal to her" if she is chancellor, for instance), regardless of similarity in titles.

Nope, hun that only happens if you are overtly power grubbing.   She is quite happy to have you on board otherwise.

[Cuddlezarro]

Addai67 wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

also I got no indication in awakenings that there was a power struggle between Xander and Annoyra(hell she actually SMILES when you return to court in awakening)

I am going by Loghain's joking inference that you're in Amaranthine because Anora finally managed to get you out of court.

I have no doubt that in reality a male Cousland has a great deal of influence, just as in the one game where I (Maker help me) married Alistair to Anora, I was counting on a hardened Alistair balancing her out.

Anora doesnt force you to amaranthine she asks you to do it

and considering there was no way in hell Xander would want an Orlesian lording over fereldens he agreeded to do it for a time

[sylvanaerie]

maxernst wrote...

It's hard to kiss her ass while it's sitting on the throne, unless there's a hole in the throne.

Hmm so the Throne is actually located in the outhouse eh?  I guess that gives a whole new meaning to the word in Ferelden...

[maxernst]

...back to the actual topic instead of the Anora controversy. She does have an irritating voice, so I'd rather hear Alistair give it aesthetically. It seemed a little odd in my game, though when he did, since he wasn't king. I could just imagine everybody watching thinking "Why is the Warden's boy-toy giving a speech?"

[Sarah1281]

What exactly would you want to say to Anora so the conversation wouln't be "ass-kissing"? She says she's a better candidate than Alistair and they are the only two options so she'd like your support. You either give her that support (or say you will) or you don't. Do you want to be able to tell her no, you think Alistair would make a better King but you'll support her anyway? That doesn't really make sense. How should the conversation play out?

[Addai]

Sarah1281 wrote...

What exactly would you want to say to Anora so the conversation wouln't be "ass-kissing"? She says she's a better candidate than Alistair and they are the only two options so she'd like your support. You either give her that support (or say you will) or you don't. Do you want to be able to tell her no, you think Alistair would make a better King but you'll support her anyway? That doesn't really make sense. How should the conversation play out?

A neutral option like "we'll see what the Landsmeet says" would be nice, but it really doesn't matter because Anora would never take that for an answer.  So you might as well just tell her to shove off.  Which, these days, I generally do.

[maxernst]

But if you DO think she's be a better ruler than Alistair, how is it ass-kissing to say so?

[Willowhugger]

What does she say, if you say. "I'd rather be King?"

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

You don't have to talk to Anora before the landsmeet at Eamon's estate, it will cost you a vote, no big deal if you don't want her to be Queen anyway. When she got me captured that did it for me.



I really liked Zevran's remark when they get back to Eamon and Zev says he hasn't heard a good enough explantion to not slit her throat and dump her in the river, too bad he didn't do that and save everyone else the trouble! In answering the question, no can't stand her speech. Alistair beats her hands down on that one. His speech is inspiring, you want to jump into battle with him and help him defend your beloved country from the darkspawn. Yeah, let's do this, I've got your back dude, let's go. Anora could beat the darkspawn just by giving them a chance to hear her speak.

[Estelindis]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

I don't get why everyone hate's Anora's rousing speech. Sure, her voice is a tad irritating, but that speech is nowhere near in the league of abominable VO's as say Isolde or Marjolaine.

I dislike the fact that the words of the speech are virtually identical to Alistair's (apart from, you know, "my husband" instead of "my brother").  Cheapens Alistair's speech, in my opinion.  But her voice?  No, I don't get it either.  I think she sounds fine!