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[phaonica]

Sarah1281 wrote...


The Warden may not really care about Ferelden or Orzammar but since they are being called upon to single-handedly decide who becomes the ruler it is only responsible to try and make a good choice (even if there are none) and not just be apathetic. 

I played my character the same way. Just because she wasn't dwarven didn't mean she wasn't going to take Orzammar's civil war deadly seriously, and with as much thought and respect as she would give to Ferelden's civil war.

[Addai]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Eamon says that they're only allies of convenience and, as such, once it is no longer convenient then this will end. Note that once you kill Loghain then Eamon immediately tries to put solo Alistair on the throne and claim that the Landsmeet has decided that even if he knows Alistair and Anora have agreed to co-rule (and that's not just game mechanics as Anora says 'So much for our plan to rule together' all annoyed).

Anora is responding to Alistair's statement, not Eamon's. She's looking at him.

She can't be responding to Alistair's statement as he doens't say anything.

I just played this last night, and Alistair's line is first.  He says "Wait, no, when did this get decided?  Nobody's decided that!  Have they?"  Cut to Anora, "So much for our plan to rule together!"  Someone with a toolset might definitively confirm this for us.

The Warden may not really care about Ferelden or Orzammar but since they are being called upon to single-handedly decide who becomes the ruler it is only responsible to try and make a good choice (even if there are none) and not just be apathetic.

That's a player judgement, however.  RP might dictate something else.  I have heard of people playing Dalish and dwarven wardens as not giving a tinker's about the Fereldan throne.  My own Dalish set up the marriage between Anora and Alistair, so I do tend to play rather straight as you do.  There again, I was wishing for some options to give Anora a smackdown.  The dialogue choices, at least in the final, seem pretty spare, and thus strike me as obsequious.

Basically, I think it can be summed up that Anora will only support you if you agree to put her on the throne and don't bring up her father and then say you're going to kill him no matter what.

I don't think this part is actually true, but I need to test to confirm.

We agree on Anora lying her ass off if she feels the need to and appear to disagree about whether she makes a competent Queen. The point of contention is really about whether she requires you to kiss her ass to actually give her support. Again, my defintion is "to fawn over someone; to flatter and curry favor with someone." Is your definition different and if not how does she do this?

Yes, insofar as I'm not able to express disdain or reluctance in my support for her, I think that definition works fine.

Modifié par Addai67, 07 mai 2010 - 08:26 .

[Sarah1281]

She can't be responding to Alistair's statement as he doens't say anything.

I just played this last night, and Alistair's line is first. He says "Wait, no, when did this get decided? Nobody's decided that! Have they?" Cut to Anora, "So much for our plan to rule together!" Someone with a toolset might definitively confirm this for us.

Even if that is the order, then why would she be saying 'so much for our plan to rule together' when Eamon is the one trying to go back on the agreement and Alistair is telling Eamon he's wrong?

Yes, insofar as I'm not able to express disdain or reluctance in my support for her, I think that definition works fine.

Okay, now that we've got that out of the way I can only think of a few options that would work with reluctant support:

a) Alistair does not want to be King so even if you don't think Anora can do it then you'll respect Alistair's wishes. I know the word selfish has a lot of negative connotations but all it really means is "concerned excessively or exclusively with oneself : seeking or concentrating on one's own advantage, pleasure, or well-being without regard for others." If you go this route then it can be because you don't care about Ferelden and thus are putting your apathy above the good of Fereldn which is selfish. You can do it because you love Alistair or just want to be able to run off with the Grey Wardens with him, which is also putting your desires above Ferelden and thus selfish. You can do it because unhardened Alistair doesn't want to be King and even hardened Alistair isn't as keen on the idea as Anora is in which case you are going along with Alistair's selfishness. If you are only putting Anora on the throne due to selfishness then is it really going to add anything to the conversation by saying "I'm selfih enough to put you on the throne even though I think Alistair would be better"? In fact, just by saying you think Alistair is better she may not trust your support and turn on you anyway.



You think she'll weaken Ferelden and for whatever reason you hate the country. You can hardly confess that now can you? Why would anyone trust you to save the country if you make in known that you despise it?



c) You intend to support Alistair but will accept Anora if the Landsmeet insists. You're not actually pledging support and that is what she can gather from 'no, I'm supporting Alistair' so that's already more-or-less covered. Yes, you do have a coup if LOGHAIN wins but that's only because you want to remove him. If he were to step down and then when Eamon said the Landsmeet decided on Alistair but he refused to do the job then it's simply expectd that you would accept Anora along with the rest of Ferelden.



d) You think you both suck as rulers but Anora would suck less so she gets the throne. I suppose you COULD tell her this but why would you? The crux of her argument is about how she'd make a better ruler than Alistair anyway so if you're conceding the point why would you need to explain that that doesn't mean she's competent?



Of course, I could be missing a motivation to qualify your support.

[Willowhugger]

Basically, I think it can be summed up that Anora will only support you if you agree to put her on the throne and don't bring up her father and then say you're going to kill him no matter what. She may tell you that she'll support you regardless but she's lying. I know that and as it happens I think she's responsible for Cauthrien showing up so quickly anyway as it would be easy for Erlina to run and find her the minute you leave to go find Howe and the mage who is keeping Anora trapped in the room and it's a reasonable assumption that Howe will end up dead. So Anora is deceptive, yes.

Cauthrien is Loghain's bodyguard. Her visiting Howe and later at the Landsmeet is just sensible.

[Sarah1281]

Willowhugger wrote...

Basically, I think it can be summed up that Anora will only support you if you agree to put her on the throne and don't bring up her father and then say you're going to kill him no matter what. She may tell you that she'll support you regardless but she's lying. I know that and as it happens I think she's responsible for Cauthrien showing up so quickly anyway as it would be easy for Erlina to run and find her the minute you leave to go find Howe and the mage who is keeping Anora trapped in the room and it's a reasonable assumption that Howe will end up dead. So Anora is deceptive, yes.

Cauthrien is Loghain's bodyguard. Her visiting Howe and later at the Landsmeet is just sensible.

Oh no, I think her attacking you outside the Landsmeet is of her own volition as Loghain doesn't seem surprised that you showed up and if he asked her to assassinate you outside of the doors then he should be. The reason Cauthrien's appearance points in Anora's direction is becuase even though Howe was killed maybe five/ten minutes prior she already knows all about it and if the only people you killed were those in the dungeon then she has no reason to suspect you've killed him. Still, she's there to arrest you for his murder. Not to mention that the timing of her just happening to show up then is very suspicious. How would Loghain know Howe had just been killed or that you were even in the estate? Anora would know, however, as you talk to her before having to hit the dungeon and that's plenty of time for Erlina to run to Cauthrien all frantic and say that you've invaded the estate and killed Howe. There was a whole thread about this awhile back.

There's no proof one way or the other, of course, but the timing is pretty convenient, why else would Cauthrien have shown up without Loghain but with enough men to capture the Warden, and how else could she have already known Howe was dead? If you don't kill anyone until reaching the dungeon (and the way the dungeon is set up no one could escape) then it's not like anyone BUT Erlina could pass on the message.

[Addai]

Sarah1281 wrote...

She can't be responding to Alistair's statement as he doens't say anything.

I just played this last night, and Alistair's line is first. He says "Wait, no, when did this get decided? Nobody's decided that! Have they?" Cut to Anora, "So much for our plan to rule together!" Someone with a toolset might definitively confirm this for us.

Even if that is the order, then why would she be saying 'so much for our plan to rule together' when Eamon is the one trying to go back on the agreement and Alistair is telling Eamon he's wrong?

Eamon isn't going back on anything.  He says Alistair will be king- how is that going back on an agreement for Alistair to become king?

Anora is expressing disgust at Alistair's hem-hawing.

Okay, now that we've got that out of the way I can only think of a few options that would work with reluctant support:

So you think the only two options a PC Warden could realistically have is "rah rah Anora" or "rah rah Alistair"??  Why can you not, for instance, say "I haven't made up my mind yet"?  That is a very realistic scenario.

Even if we leave aside the fact that the dialogue options for talking to Anora are limited, and much milder than the tone you can take with Bhelen or Harrowmont, the salient point is that she will take nothing but an explicit expression of your support for her throne or else she plans to denounce you and see you executed.

 If you go this route then it can be because you don't care about Ferelden and thus are putting your apathy above the good of Fereldn which is selfish.

Or you see it as half dozen and six.  This is really beside the point, however.  It doesn't matter what your motivations are for reluctantly supporting Anora- you just never get to tell her that that is your position.

[Sarah1281]

Eamon isn't going back on anything. He says Alistair will be king- how is that going back on an agreement for Alistair to become king?



Anora is expressing disgust at Alistair's hem-hawing.

You work out the agreement with Anora and, presumably, tell Eamon of this and Eamon is thrilled because Anora/Alistair is the strongest argument to face Loghain with. Even if you don't actually mention this to him (which you should as it aids your cause even if you don't intend to keep your word) then he's stading ten feet away while you talk Alistair into it. Alistair is close enough to hear and get upset if you broach the idea with Eamon so it follows that Eamon is standing close enough to hear Alistair agree to it. He knows about the plan and then he says Alistair should be King and doesn't mention Anora. He's going against the agreement.

So you think the only two options a PC Warden could realistically have is "rah rah Anora" or "rah rah Alistair"?? Why can you not, for instance, say "I haven't made up my mind yet"? That is a very realistic scenario.

You can talk to Anora any point from the time you rescue her until the time you tell Eamon what you found in the Alienage and everyone leaves for the Landsmeet. Realistically, since you know that she wants to stay on the throne then it's a good idea to make up your mind on the matter before going to see her because what else could she want from you? You have to make up your mind before you go to the Landsmeet or you're just winging it which is hardly a responsible thing to do. You don't need to come off as an enthusiast for either side, just say yes you will support her or no you will not.

It doesn't matter what your motivations are for reluctantly supporting Anora- you just never get to tell her that that is your position.

So the dialogue option should be what, exactly? Maybe there should be a choice to say "You make a compelling argument so I will think on it and get back to you before the Landsmeet" and then if you don't speak to her again she assumes you are going with Alistair. And you have to feel she makes a compelling argument so you're uncertain or else you'll flat-out turn her down. What's the point in having an option to say "I think you would make a horrible ruler but for whatever reason I don't want to put Alistair on the throne"? They can't possibly give you an option for every reason you might do this, suc as not wanting to break up with Alistair, wanting Alistair to be happy, or calling them both terrible choices.



If you really have a problem supporting her then don't. There's not an option to enthusiastically call Anora Ferleden's only hope even if you think she is and that WOULD qualify as kissing her ass.

[Addai]

Sarah1281 wrote...

You work out the agreement with Anora and, presumably, tell Eamon of this and Eamon is thrilled because Anora/Alistair is the strongest argument to face Loghain with. Even if you don't actually mention this to him (which you should as it aids your cause even if you don't intend to keep your word) then he's stading ten feet away while you talk Alistair into it.

Yes, all good and well, but Eamon's statement in the LM is not "Alistair will take Anora's throne" it is that he will take his father's throne.  That is not going back on any agreement any more than calling Cailan the King of Ferelden means Anora is not its queen.  Granted, Eamon no doubt wants to emphasize who he sees as the real ruler.

Realistically, since you know that she wants to stay on the throne then it's a good idea to make up your mind on the matter before going to see her because what else could she want from you?

Your help in a) rescuing her, and stopping her father.

So the dialogue option should be what, exactly?

I've already given several.

I've seen similar discussions and even been on the other side when people are arguing that they want certain dialogue options because the game forces them into a situation that is contra their RP take.  And I think it is just not possible for you to imagine what I'm talking about because it's never an issue for you.  Whereas it is always an issue for me and hence my Wardens.  I've never put Anora on the throne gladly.  I did it once because Alistair was unhardened and his show at the LM was so poor, and another time because I was marrying her to Alistair and remaining as his mistress and I knew she wasn't going to get her way.

If you really have a problem supporting her then don't. There's not an option to enthusiastically call Anora Ferleden's only hope even if you think she is and that WOULD qualify as kissing her ass.

As I've said numerous times, that is often precisely what I do.  As for enthusiastically calling Anora Ferelden's only hope, since that is exactly how she sees herself, all you have to do is agree with her- and the game gives you no other option, which is the point of this discussion.

As a side note, I think it's a shame that most game guides I've seen say "just tell Anora you'll support her whether you plan to or not."  For one thing, IMO it's a lot more interesting when you don't.

Modifié par Addai67, 07 mai 2010 - 09:42 .

[Sarah1281]

Yes, all good and well, but Eamon's statement in the LM is not "Alistair will take Anora's throne" it is that he will take his father's throne. That is not going back on any agreement any more than calling Cailan the King of Ferelden means Anora is not its queen. Granted, Eamon no doubt wants to emphasize who he sees as the real ruler.

If Alistair went along with this he'd be regent and Anora would stay consort. If it's not specifically spelled out at the Landsmeet that they are co-regents then that's not what will happen.



And no, I don't really see the need to qualify your statement as "I don't want you on the throne, exactly, but I guess I'll do it because..." To me, regardless of your feelings towards her, if you plan on supporting her then that's all she needs to know and being diplomatic is always a good idea. Just because telling her you don't want her there but are going to support her anyway is likely to be a bad idea and make her less grateful then if you had stuck with a simple "Yes, you have my support" doesn't mean a real person couldn't say that, of course. Qualifying your support, while it might make you feel better, will not improve the situation in the slightest and could potentially hurt relations with her in the future.



I just take offense at the idea that me telling her that I'll support her if she marries Alistair (which requires you to only say "Why not marry Alistair? The best of both worlds", "Marry Alistair and you have my support" and then something about how Alistair won't get in her way which is a little off-putting but not a deal-breaker) is kissing her ass. It's only polite NOT to tell someone you're supporting that they aren't a good choice and there is a difference between being polite and diplomatic and kissing her ass.

[Addai]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I just take offense at the idea that me telling her that I'll support her if she marries Alistair (which requires you to only say "Why not marry Alistair? The best of both worlds", "Marry Alistair and you have my support" and then something about how Alistair won't get in her way which is a little off-putting but not a deal-breaker) is kissing her ass. It's only polite NOT to tell someone you're supporting that they aren't a good choice and there is a difference between being polite and diplomatic and kissing her ass.

Well, you just added spin to the dialogue options that is not really there.

Compare this to Bhelen and Harrowmont.  I can call Bhelen a murderer, cheat and liar, in so many words, and in the end give him a snarky reply such as "great, hurrah, now where are my troops."  He even says "we don't have to like each other."

If Anora is really so desperate for your support as she claims, then she's hardly going to wilt if you say "alright, you'll get what you want, you scheming b*tch, but don't expect me to like it."  Considering that she might have thrown you under the bus to Cauthrien at that point, I don't think it's OOC to wish for an option like that.

Modifié par Addai67, 07 mai 2010 - 10:02 .

[Sarah1281]

Addai67 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

I just take offense at the idea that me telling her that I'll support her if she marries Alistair (which requires you to only say "Why not marry Alistair? The best of both worlds", "Marry Alistair and you have my support" and then something about how Alistair won't get in her way which is a little off-putting but not a deal-breaker) is kissing her ass. It's only polite NOT to tell someone you're supporting that they aren't a good choice and there is a difference between being polite and diplomatic and kissing her ass.

Well, you just added spin to the dialogue options that is not really there.

Compare this to Bhelen and Harrowmont.  I can call Bhelen a murderer, cheat and liar, in so many words, and in the end give him a snarky reply such as "great, hurrah, now where are my troops."  He even says "we don't have to like each other."

If Anora is really so desperate for your support as she claims, then she's hardly going to wilt if you say "alright, you'll get what you want, you scheming b*tch, but don't expect me to like it."  Considering that she might have thrown you under the bus to Cauthrien at that point, I don't think it's OOC to wish for an option like that.

You're not adding anything to the dialogue. If Anora wants the throne so badly then you might be able to get away with calling her that and have her support you but good luck getting anything out of her once the Blight is over. There is a middle-ground between kissing her ass and calling her a ****. If she tells you why she thinks she would make a good ruler and you agree that she would so offer to support her if she marries Alistair (and in order to do this ending you would need to think she was a good ruler because otherwise why not just put Alistair up solo?) then that's just coming to a political arrangement and not kissing her ass.

If you don't reveal her at Howe's you have no reason to see her as a scheming **** based on the information available so there's no need to be hostile, after all. I really don't see how viewing that conversation as just being diplomatic is twisting the words around. On the contrary, I think calling not commenting on her version of how she compares to Alistair as agreeing to it and kissing her ass is twisting the situation around quite a bit.

[Addai]

You're basically arguing that other players may not RP as they like, and that's rather frustrating to be honest. I think we should just leave it.  (Edit:  And as I've said multiple times now, if you actually support Anora as queen, the "ass kissing" comment doesn't apply to you anyway so there's no reason for you to be offended by it.  You asked "when do you ever have to kiss Anora's ass?", so I'm telling you.  You interpret those choices differently.... all fine and well.)

Modifié par Addai67, 07 mai 2010 - 10:19 .

[Sarah1281]

I'm not saying people can't RP. I said that I viewed the option as just being polite, which you could say was RPing. You said "Well, you just added spin to the dialogue options that is not really there", which actually sounds more anti-RPing.

[Qun00]

And don't forget that she had the nerve to side with someone who intended to keep her on the throne if you let her know you won't support her in a purely political matter. Pure evil, that one.

We do understand the pragmatic motivation to her actions, just like we know why Orlesians play the Game.

It still is a dirty move.

I think so. It happens in the coronatio cut-scene; he tries to grab her hand and she pulls it away when they're climbing the stairs to be crowned rulers. And maybe it isn't just her being evil, maybe he had sweaty hands? He was probably nervous. And they hardly know each other and she doesn't seem the type to be big on PDA. Why do people assume that this means Alistair is in for a living nightmare?

Because if such a small gesture of courtesy already is more than she is willing to do, you can imagine how icy their daily interaction was gonna be.

Sigh... the worst thing about this is that you will never read this. I hate being a late comer to this franchise. There are what, 5 active members in this particular section?

[Illegitimus]

Well, you just added spin to the dialogue options that is not really there.

Compare this to Bhelen and Harrowmont.  I can call Bhelen a murderer, cheat and liar, in so many words, and in the end give him a snarky reply such as "great, hurrah, now where are my troops."  He even says "we don't have to like each other."

If Anora is really so desperate for your support as she claims, then she's hardly going to wilt if you say "alright, you'll get what you want, you scheming b*tch, but don't expect me to like it."  Considering that she might have thrown you under the bus to Cauthrien at that point, I don't think it's OOC to wish for an option like that.

 

Bhelen actually betrayed and framed you (if you're a dwarf noble).  Anora just declined to go down with you after you tried to throw her under the bus.  Cauthrien wouldn't have let you go if Anora had supported you.  She would have arrested Anora as well.  Marrying Anora to Alistair is a cruel (but practical) thing to do.  He killed her father or at least really really wanted to and she's the daughter of the man he hates more than anyone and the widow of his half brother.  There's no prospect for marital bliss or even contentment there.  If Alistair's contentment is your highest priority better to kill Loghain, leave Alistair as a warden and let Anora rule alone unless you're the female human noble and can become queen, which is probably the best possible end state.   

[springacres]

It may be a crummy move to marry Alistair to Anora, but my canon Warden felt like it was the best option under the circumstances.

 

Of course, if Alistair saw it the same way, that would help explain why my canon Warden (an elf mage with zero interest in ruling anything) got the arling of Amaranthine dumped in his lap.  He's still hoping that one day the king, the queen or Teyrn Cousland (or all three) will come to their senses and let him step down as arl in favor of Nathaniel Howe, who at least is a human noble with the training to rule.

[Qun00]

Bhelen actually betrayed and framed you (if you're a dwarf noble). Anora just declined to go down with you after you tried to throw her under the bus. Cauthrien wouldn't have let you go if Anora had supported you. She would have arrested Anora as well. Marrying Anora to Alistair is a cruel (but practical) thing to do. He killed her father or at least really really wanted to and she's the daughter of the man he hates more than anyone and the widow of his half brother. There's no prospect for marital bliss or even contentment there. If Alistair's contentment is your highest priority better to kill Loghain, leave Alistair as a warden and let Anora rule alone unless you're the female human noble and can become queen, which is probably the best possible end state.

Alistair solo king is also satisfying.

[springacres]

Alistair solo king is also satisfying.

Only if you don't take Anora's wiles into account.  She may be imprisoned, but that doesn't mean she'd be powerless.

 

However, I may now have to go back and replay the Landsmeet sequence of my canon playthrough yet again, so I can make Alistair sole king.  (I won't bother redoing the DLC, since IIRC if Al is king and not in a relationship with the Warden, it doesn't matter whether Anora is also on the throne or not.)

[Illegitimus]

See, even though those documents were forged, there is SOMETHING hinky. I mean, Harrowmont IS bribing people for votes.

 

Given that he's registering the deal with the hall of records it's fairly clear there's nothing illegitimate about that in dwarf politics. 

[Qun00]

Only if you don't take Anora's wiles into account. She may be imprisoned, but that doesn't mean she'd be powerless.

However, I may now have to go back and replay the Landsmeet sequence of my canon playthrough yet again, so I can make Alistair sole king. (I won't bother redoing the DLC, since IIRC if Al is king and not in a relationship with the Warden, it doesn't matter whether Anora is also on the throne or not.)

That's pretty much the reason why I had my Warden kill Loghain in my first run.

I was like "Don't do that, Alistair. If you kill Anora's father you'll be finding yourself a dangerous enemy."

Then again, ten years will pass with no revenge plot threatening him so I suppose it doesn't matter.

[RoseLawliet]

I feel like the only one who wants to yell at her in public, in front of the entire Landsmeet, when she says "Reason clearly had nothing to do with your decision, Warden" if you put Alistair on the throne without her. No, Anora. We both heard you promise in Howe's estate that you would support us in the Landsmeet, I heard you say that you would be content if the throne went to Alistair... and then you walked out and denounced us. You were the first to break your word, we react accordingly, but we're the ones who aren't acting reasonably. Classy.

 

And to whoever says promises don't matter in politics, just look at fairly recent real world events. If you prefer to keep reasoning within the game, though, I'll ask Loghain's question back to his daughter: "What is the price of Fereldan honor?"

[Ghost Gal]

I feel like the only one who wants to yell at her in public, in front of the entire Landsmeet, when she says "Reason clearly had nothing to do with your decision, Warden" if you put Alistair on the throne without her. No, Anora. We both heard you promise in Howe's estate that you would support us in the Landsmeet, I heard you say that you would be content if the throne went to Alistair... and then you walked out and denounced us. You were the first to break your word, we react accordingly, but we're the ones who aren't acting reasonably. Classy.

 

And to whoever says promises don't matter in politics, just look at fairly recent real world events. If you prefer to keep reasoning within the game, though, I'll ask Loghain's question back to his daughter: "What is the price of Fereldan honor?"

 

You act like Loghain has any more honor than Anora. He too betrayed and abandoned his allies right and left during the Blight (abandoned the king, king's army and Grey Wardens at Ostagar, abandoned Uldred and the rebel mages to the Templars, promised Isolde a tutor to train her son and sent an assassin for her husband instead, promised Jowan he'd fix things with the Circle then abandoned him to Isolde's "mercy", etc), nearly got the entire country fed to the darkspawn as a direct result.

 

Apple didn't fall far from the tree where Anora and Loghain are concerned. She clearly learned her concepts of honor and loyalty from him.

[Illegitimus]

I feel like the only one who wants to yell at her in public, in front of the entire Landsmeet, when she says "Reason clearly had nothing to do with your decision, Warden" if you put Alistair on the throne without her. No, Anora. We both heard you promise in Howe's estate that you would support us in the Landsmeet, I heard you say that you would be content if the throne went to Alistair... and then you walked out and denounced us. You were the first to break your word, we react accordingly, but we're the ones who aren't acting reasonably. Classy.

 

 

Actually she's calling your choice of an unqualified Alistair sentimental and stupid.  

[Qun00]

I suppose no ruler would stand idle when s/he is about to be deposed.

Still, the way Anora went about defending her throne was very... Orlesian.

[RoseLawliet]

You act like Loghain has any more honor than Anora. He too betrayed and abandoned his allies right and left during the Blight (abandoned the king, king's army and Grey Wardens at Ostagar, abandoned Uldred and the rebel mages to the Templars, promised Isolde a tutor to train her son and sent an assassin for her husband instead, promised Jowan he'd fix things with the Circle then abandoned him to Isolde's "mercy", etc), nearly got the entire country fed to the darkspawn as a direct result.

 

Apple didn't fall far from the tree where Anora and Loghain are concerned. She clearly learned her concepts of honor and loyalty from him.

 

I'm not making a judgment about his (nonexistent) honor at all. I simply think that if it's a rhetorical question he's willing to use in the Landsmeet, then the appearance of honor is something the Fereldan people like.

 

Actually she's calling your choice of an unqualified Alistair sentimental and stupid.  

 

I know. I prefer people to say what they mean. And I'll respond to what is actually said, especially if it's that stupid.