75 réponses à ce sujet

[FairfaxLessee]

After having my Property professor dodge the concept of the "fee tail" for an entire semester, I decided that it was worth looking into.  The fee tail is an estate that passes in a direct blood line through the "heirs of the body" and is the common form of inheritance among the landed gentry like, say kings.


This is the background for my question: Who is older Alistair or Cailin?

Under the background of the estate, which is founded upon the English principal of primogeniture, inheritance thought the eldest son, it is entirely probable that were Alistair the eldest son, he would have superior claim to the throne over Cailin, illegitimacy being irrelevant to a discussion of "heirs of the body" (see both King Arthur and Mordred) so if anyone knows, please let me know.  Why?  For my own personal benefit and because I MIGHT have already told my property professor about this...

[Herr Uhl]

Cailan is older.

[Clover Rider]

Anders.

[pudi0072000]

Depends on if you think Alistair's mother was really a maid, in which case he would be about 2 or 3 years older. Or if you believe he's Fiona's son, he'd be 5 to 6 years younger.

[Raiil]

Younger. I'm in the camp that Alistair is Fiona's son, and I thought it was established by someone in Bioware that Alistair is just barely out of his teens, whereas Cailan is nearing thirty.

[silentstephi]

Alistair cannot be younger than 20. I'm sorry, I just have a REALLY hard time seeing him as someone just out of his teens. Sure, he can be a bit naive when it comes to the ladies but even his look makes him seem mid 20s.



As for the OPs point. It all depends on whether or not he's a scullery maid's or Fiona's. Until we know which, it's a crap shoot.

[BigBad]

Cailin is definitely older. If Alistair was born before a legitimate heir, there's no way he'd be hidden away in Eamon's stable, since he'd be heir apparent to the Theirin bloodline. I do believe they are fairly close in age, however. Perhaps a five year difference at most. I'm pretty sure he's Fiona's son, but I don't know enough of that story to figure out how Goldanna comes into it.



On a side note, why do people assume that the political structure of Ferelden follows the laws and tradition of real-world monarchies, when the codex and gameplay show it as a distinctly unique body of customs with few set in stone laws? People seem to have no problem accepting the Orzammar political structure, where the monarch is elected and whose named heirs are considered merely suggestions for the Assembly. I was reading that "Why can't my Cousland be sole ruler?? Waaah!" thread earlier and it nearly made me bleed out the ears.

[Sarah1281]

You mean 'why can't my Couslan be sole leader because we're the most epicly awesome family ever' one?

[BigBad]

Yep. I'm not even gonna get into it here, except to say that if you even have to ask why it's not an option, you haven't been paying attention during the game.

[MEUTRIERE]

BigBad wrote...

Cailin is definitely older. If Alistair was born before a legitimate heir, there's no way he'd be hidden away in Eamon's stable, since he'd be heir apparent to the Theirin bloodline.

I believe Alistair was kept secret because Maric didn't want to embarrass/anger/etc. Rowan, regardless of whether he was the first-born.  Having a child outside of wedlock didn't look very noble of the King.

On a side note, why do people assume that the political structure of
Ferelden follows the laws and tradition of real-world monarchies, when
the codex and gameplay show it as a distinctly unique body of customs
with few set in stone laws?

And people assume it follows the real-world structure of England in the Middle Ages.  Although I do believe that the Middle Ages was just a general background for Fereldan and not followed to a tee, some people think are meant to have have exactly the same structure.

[Axekix]

People in the Alistair fangirl thread claim Alistair is supposed to be 21 which would make him much younger than Cailan. I always thought he was mid/late 20s personally. /shrug

[nos_astra]

Axekix wrote...

People in the Alistair fangirl thread claim Alistair is supposed to be 21 which would make him much younger than Cailan. I always thought he was mid/late 20s personally. /shrug

Not so much younger. Cailan is 25 in Origins.

[fabricebouye]

On a side note, why do people assume that the political structure of Ferelden follows the laws and tradition of real-world monarchies,

Actually unlike what most people (and hollywood movie scenarists/producers) think not all real life monarchy were based on inheritance: early kings of France and later kings of Poland were elected and so was the ruler of the Holy Roman Empire.

[nos_astra]

fabricebouye wrote...

On a side note, why do people assume that the political structure of Ferelden follows the laws and tradition of real-world monarchies,

Actually unlike what most people (and hollywood movie scenarists/producers) think not all real life monarchy were based on inheritance: early kings of France and later kings of Poland were elected and so was the ruler of the Holy Roman Empire.

Which is what the Landsmeet is for. They obviously can go for the bloodline, especially since the Theirin blood is connected to a legend but they don't have to.
So even a younger, illegitimate brother may cause trouble, if yomeone decided to use him as a puppet and put him up as an alternative while still having the magical Theirin blood. Oh wait, that's what we are doing in the game?

I have no idea if that makes sense.

Modifié par klarabella, 06 mai 2010 - 09:35 .

[Nu-Nu]

Cailin is older, I'm sure there is a mention or they implied they sent Alistair away so he couldn't steal the throne from him. It's the message I get anyway.

[Orchomene]

Alistair is very young : he has not finished his templar formation before joining the GWs and has joined the GW something like 6 monthes before the PC.

I imagine him around 17.



Also, inheritance laws vary a lot from a kingdom to another : elections, primogeniture, ultimogeniture, agnatic, salic, elections ...

[Tinxa]

I think Cailan is older too. The way Alistair tells it he was treated as a commoner and told several times that he better put any idea of ever ruling out of his mind because Cailan is the heir. They wanted to secure Cailan's position and they couldn't do that if Cailan wasn't born yet.

[Fault Girl]

I think Cailan is older, though i think Alistair looks older. If he is suppose to be around 21, he's veery mature looking. I kinda want him to be Fionas son, but how does Goldanna fit into it?



Or maybe there was a maid who had a child and died around the same time and thought it would be an good idea to say alistair was the maids kid , be less of a shock compared to being half-elf?



Sorry about spelling etc, im on my phone!

[jpdipity]

I think Alistair is younger despite how his character looks in the game. I write it off as the taint has aged his appearance.



Although I admit that I am bias because I firmly believe that Fiona is Alistair's mother which places him at about 19 or 20 years of age whereas Cailan is closer to 25 or 26.



Looks are deceiving in this game. Eamon looks well beyond his actual age - he is at least 3 years younger than Loghain who appears much younger despite being a much more seasoned fighter.

[Allattar1]

Some Geth wrote...

Anders.

Quoted for truth

[Carmen_Willow]

klarabella wrote...

Axekix wrote...

People in the Alistair fangirl thread claim Alistair is supposed to be 21 which would make him much younger than Cailan. I always thought he was mid/late 20s personally. /shrug

Not so much younger. Cailan is 25 in Origins.

Interesting, the Codex (Arl Eamon's letters to Cailan) says that Anora is almost 30.  Did Cailan marry an older woman?

[Herr Uhl]

Carmen_Willow wrote...

klarabella wrote...

Axekix wrote...

People in the Alistair fangirl thread claim Alistair is supposed to be 21 which would make him much younger than Cailan. I always thought he was mid/late 20s personally. /shrug

Not so much younger. Cailan is 25 in Origins.

Interesting, the Codex (Arl Eamon's letters to Cailan) says that Anora is almost 30.  Did Cailan marry an older woman?

Yes, yes he did.

[Carmen_Willow]

Orchomene wrote...

Alistair is very young : he has not finished his templar formation before joining the GWs and has joined the GW something like 6 monthes before the PC.
I imagine him around 17.

Also, inheritance laws vary a lot from a kingdom to another : elections, primogeniture, ultimogeniture, agnatic, salic, elections ...

And conquest.  Henry Tudor (the VII) stated that he had taken the English throne through right of conquest because he knew his claim through bloodline was verrrrry shaky. But he did defeat Richard III in battle (who was killed in combat that day).

[Carmen_Willow]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Carmen_Willow wrote...

klarabella wrote...

Axekix wrote...

People in the Alistair fangirl thread claim Alistair is supposed to be 21 which would make him much younger than Cailan. I always thought he was mid/late 20s personally. /shrug

Not so much younger. Cailan is 25 in Origins.

Interesting, the Codex (Arl Eamon's letters to Cailan) says that Anora is almost 30.  Did Cailan marry an older woman?

Yes, yes he did.

Was there some political reason why he married a woman who, by the level of culture and technology of their age would have been well past her prime?  I haven't read the novels yet. If he married her for love, shame on Eamon.  The King has no right to marry for love.  He should have married a nubile 18 year old with a lot of good breeding years left in her. 

[Patriciachr34]

Yes. Anora is suppose to be a few years older than Cailin. Alistair is younger than Cailin. I don't buy the 17 bit. I would assume that training to be a templar would take some time. I keep paralleling this to completing West Point or Annapolis. So Alistair would be in his early twenties.