62 réponses à ce sujet

[Samurai_Wahoo]

I have been thinking about TIM's recruits for the team and it really does not make sense to me at all.  The team he put together is filled with mental cripples and less than savory individuals. 

I will run through the list of squad members that would not make the cut....

Kasumi - A freaking thief.  I have never known a noble thief or a thief that I have trusted.  They are all about personal gain and for the most part stab you in the back if it meant some sort of monetary gain.  She would have been X off the list.

Zaeed - Not a thief, but much like one.  In it for the money.  I would never trust someone that would go to the highest bidder.  X off the list in a hurry.

Thane - What Jacob said....  Also, he is dying.  Nothing like having someone watch your back when he could croak at any moment.  No go for him

Grunt - Tank bred Krogan filled with whatever Okeer wanted.  Sorry, no thanks.  Too many variables.  Why didn't TIM contact Wrex and arrange something.

Samara - Lives by a rigid code and plays by her own rules.  She already said that she may kill you if you violate that code.  Yeah, too big of a chance for us to not see eye to eye and she would need to ghost me because her code demands it. 

Monrith - Sociopath, kills without remorse.  I really do not to go on about her anymore.  Why don't I just go recruit Hannibal Lecture. 

Legion - No frakking toaster will be apart of my squad.  I do not think I have to go into the history of the Geth and why giving them a chance is so insanely dumb.

Jack - Hell no!!!  What I saw her do and they way they had to lock her up.... I just would have jumped back into the ship and left her ass on Purgatory.

The ones I would have in my squad...

Mordin - Seems like an alright gent, badass, smart, but seems like he is playing with a full deck

Jacob - Honest and upfront from the get go.  He is okay in my book

Garrus/Tali - I have rapport with them and I have been in combat with them.  Loyal and they were there on Ilos.  They will always have a spot on the roster.

Miranda - Loyal to cause and I figure she would have to come with the boat.

I can not be the only one to think that TIM's recruits were a very dumb selection.  Maybe all the ones I would not want could make the Renegade roster, but I still would not want them around.  Most of them are loners or in it for money and that is not what makes a great team.  I really wish BW would have doubled the roster with more like minded sane individuals or more trust worthy servicemen (I am sure resources though determine how many squadies they could put in). 

I can not believe that for 2 yrs that this was the best TEAM TIM could put together.  He could not of honestly believe that half of them could even take orders.  Maybe it is just poor writing in this area of the game, but the squad is terrible.  They are colorful and they have plenty of depth which is why I do like what they put out there as far characters, but the squad does not make a bit of sense.

Sorry, if this comes off as a rant or anything like that.  Just a wee bit disappointed with the direction.  Don't get me wrong I love BW writing and creativity, just not in this particular area.

What do you all think?


EDIT:  Is there a way to move this to the Official Storyline discussion section of the boards?

Modifié par Samurai_Wahoo, 06 mai 2010 - 02:49 .

[Dark_Caduceus]

poo poo

[Samurai_Wahoo]

Alright.....

[janeym27]

Well, you have to pick 8 squaddies to trigger the game progression, and the only ones forced on you are Miranda, Jacob and Mordin, so you can afford to pick and choose to a certain extent.



My Shep would not have Miranada or Jacob on team, given the choice, because she hates Cerberus (sole-survivor) and can't trust them. Legion, Grunt, Thane and Samara are all A-OK (the first 2 weren't TIM's idea. The last 2 have their own strict code and agree to follow Shep, not TIM). Garrus and Tali are A GIVEN! Mordin, I like.



Jack... likley liability, yes. But she isn't there for Cerberus, she is there because Shep convinced her.



Basically, I'd have anyone who isn't on Cerberus' payroll (which is a shame, because I really like Kasumi. Maybe if money wasn't the motivation there...)



Oh, and Wrex. You gotta have Wrex.

[Samurai_Wahoo]

You are right about Cerebus crewman, thinking about it for a minute and I too would love to not have them around. Unfortunately, the council does not want to lift a finger and Cerebus is the absolute necessary evil so I would have hook up with them to stop the Collectors.

[rplong]

I imagine that the Illusive Man had it in the back of his mind that this was a suicide mission all along. Therefore, he is going to provide you a team that is completely capable, yet expendable. Even Shephard is expendable, he is there as a symbol, not necessarily for his abilities. The Illusive Man saved him/her for name recognition and notoriety, he's a marketing genius in that respect.

[Zaxares]

While I would also be leery of bringing certain squad members along, I would bring along more of them than the OP mentioned:

Kasumi - At first glance, a thief doesn't seem like a really suitable choice for the mission, but I have to admit she has unparalled entry, espionage and sabotage skills, which could be extremely useful for my team. Plus, I just got a good 'vibe' from talking to her the first time we met, and I've learned to trust my gut instincts when it comes to people. Accepted.

Zaeed - Ruthless, merciless and willing to do whatever it takes to get the job done. Frankly, he's the kind of guy who commits war crimes, and under normal circumstances I would immediately turn him down. However, he possesses excellent combat skills, and when it comes down to it, I'll need people like that when the **** hits the fan. Accepted, but keeping an eye on him.

Thane - Thane made a very impressive showing when he first makes his appearance. No question as to his skills, but it wasn't until I'd talked to him and got to know him before I started to like and trust him. He may be suffering from a terminal illness, but considering we're going on a 'suicide mission', that's hardly a serious problem. Accepted.

Grunt - Grunt mellows out the longer you know him, and he's actually a very complex character, but frankly, the way the first meeting played out? I'd have just shot him in the head. Too much of a loose cannon. Rejected.

Samara - She's like a paladin! I love paladins, and I respect her biotic powers. Strange as it may sound, I'd even still respect her if she decided she had to take me down by the end of the mission; that kind of complete, utter devotion to her ideals and beliefs is refreshing, even admirable, in a universe of grays. Accepted.

Morinth - A sociopathic killer. No WAY am I taking her along. Rejected.

Legion - Very, very, VERY wary of it when I first meet it, but this is the first chance to actually converse with a geth and find out things from their perspective, which is something I've always wanted to do. I wouldn't accept it on my team immediately, however; I'd likely keep it locked up until I had more time to study it and get to know it. Tentatively accepted.

Jack - Let's face it, Jack is out and out unstable. I sympathise with and pity her immensely for what she went through, but I'm not the person who can heal her. Rejected, although I wish her well on her life.

Mordin - Intelligent, pragmatic and very skilled. I don't fully agree with his actions regarding the genophage, but I'm more than happy to have him aboard. Accepted.

Jacob - As the OP said, an honest and upright man, and has good combat experience. I'm proud to have him at my side. Accepted.

Garrus/Tali - Known them both since ME1, and regard both of them as friends. (And in the case of Tali, more than that. ) Both are also highly skilled and experienced in battle. DEFINITELY accepted.

Miranda - I didn't really like her at first, but she warms up over time. Extremely well trained and capable, plus she can be counted on to see the mission through, regardless of her personal feelings towards me. Accepted.

[Samurai_Wahoo]

Zaxares wrote...



Kasumi - At first glance, a thief doesn't seem like a really suitable choice for the mission, but I have to admit she has unparalled entry, espionage and sabotage skills, which could be extremely useful for my team. Plus, I just got a good 'vibe' from talking to her the first time we met, and I've learned to trust my gut instincts when it comes to people. Accepted.

Maybe it is my cynicism that I have developed in my line of work, but going with the gut will get you bitten on the ass quick when it comes to people and it will bite hard when it involves a thief.  Everything a thief says to me I take as a lie and manipulation.  Trust is one of the greatest tools a thief has at his/her disposal.

Zaxares wrote...

Thane - Thane made a very impressive showing when he first makes his appearance. No question as to his skills, but it wasn't until I'd talked to him and got to know him before I started to like and trust him. He may be suffering from a terminal illness, but considering we're going on a 'suicide mission', that's hardly a serious problem. Accepted.

Looking back, Thane is a very interesting character.  I don't know if I would take him right yet, may take some reflecting.  The thing that sparked some more thought about him is the way he accepted the Suicide Run.  No charge and his concern for the colonies. 

I wonder why he is concerned.  Is he looking for atonement or is he wanting to do one last good thing before he goes on to the next world?  It is kind of odd how he talks about how an assassin is just a weapon and the person that hires him is the killer, a bit of a weird justification.  Yet, he prays and chooses to save the colony free of charge.  In one hand he seems like he does not care if he is just a tool, a weapon and in the other he shows concern when one would think he would not care less.

[Ski Mask Wei]

I'd take them all. I'd keep an eye on those like Kasumi, Zaeed, and Thane. I'd keep peeps like Jack, Grunt, and Legion on a short leash until $%&* hits the fan because when push comes to shove you need monsters to fight monsters. That's kinda the point of the game. That's why we're working for Cerberus. The Reapers are so bad-ass damn near all the rules go out the window. What the crew and organization lack in moral fiber they make up for with results. This isn't who I'm gonna invite to my sweet 16 party we're talking about end of advanced organic civilization here.

[Tlazolteotl]

Take them all.

Anyone who steps out of line has an "accident."

[OniGanon]

Agreed that some of the squad choices seem daft (Jack and Grunt, mostly), but this is nothing new.



I mean, in ME1...



As much as I like Tali, why the hell am I bringing a kid along to save the galaxy? Because she has engineering skills? Great. So does Alenko. Quarians have amazing affinity for technology? Cool. Let's get Tali to contact the Migrant Fleet and hook us up with an engineer with real combat experience.



And Wrex? One of my favourite characters. But why is he there? His job was to kill Fist. So, okay, we team up to storm Chora's Den and Wrex kills Fist whether I like it or not. Cool. Nice working with you, Wrex. Take care, see you around, good luck with that whole genophage thing. Then later it's like WTF what are you doing on this ship, Wrex? Our business is done.



Liara? I really like Liara, she's cute in a way. But come on. She's the daughter of someone known to be with the enemy. She has nothing but her word to prove she's not with them. Geth attacking her? For all I know the Geth were placed there for her protection against me. What, Geth can't operate a mining laser? I don't buy it. So I free her, I'm willing to trust her and take her along for her safety and potential useful knowledge rather than just confine and interrogate it out of her. But I'm not going to give a sheltered scientist suspected of conspiracy against the galaxy a pistol and then bring her into combat with me to watch my back.

[khevan]

While I appreciate the time and effort put into developing the various characters in ME2, I agree that many of them are unsuited to the squad I would want to bring with me. However, and I wish this came across better in-game, I view the suicide mission and the squad you recruit for said mission as something much akin to a "Dirty Dozen" type of scenario. I may not like the guys I'm taking along, I may not trust some of them in a more typical combat unit, but they're the most skilled, deadliest individuals in the known galaxy. Zaeed is a case in point...he's hot-headed, reckless, entirely too focused on revenge (understandable, but still...), but he's the frakken co-founder of the Blue Suns, and he's deadly on the battlefield. Kasumi is a thief, with all that implies, but she's a master of infiltration and security system bypassing. Jack is entirely too unstable, and if I had my druthers, she woulda been left on Purgatory, but she's (supposedly) among the most powerful biotics in the galaxy.



The only ones I wouldn't take along in "my" squad would be Jacob and Miranda. After what I saw Cerberus do in ME1, with Kahoku, Toombs, and my squad (sole survivor), I cannot, and will never, trust Cerberus. In fact, I wish there was a way to tell Tim "Thanks for bringing me back to life, now ****** off. I'll do this thing my way." Unfortunately the game is set up that Tim and Cerberus have the only means to defeat the Collectors, so I have to work with them.



*shrug* The individual characters are very well written, in my opinion, even though we don't get enough interaction with any of them, and there's a good bit of depth to most of them. I just wish Bioware had gone a slightly different direction with the squaddies in general.

[tonnactus]

Morinth actually is of course the only squadmember that Tim doesnt choose for you and know about.And he doesnt know that she is on the ship because she remove all buging devices.

Miranda also quits when she isnt loyal.That is a ridicolous behavior for someone called loyalist.Who know when she will change the sides again.(if shepardt dont take her to the last boss)

Modifié par tonnactus, 06 mai 2010 - 06:20 .

[tonnactus]

OniGanon wrote...

Liara? I really like Liara, she's cute in a way. But come on. She's the daughter of someone known to be with the enemy. She has nothing but her word to prove she's not with them.

Do you really think she put herself in the bubble only to fool you??

[bas273]

Miranda, Tali, Garrus, Ashley, Liara and Joker. Those are the only people I need to complete the suicide mission.

[tonnactus]

Metalix2006 wrote...

Personally, I see TIM's list as a degree of proof he's NOT as smart as he seems.

Who knows if the "accident" on the lazarus station wasnt made by tim and miranda and wilson was just a pawn.That would explain a lot.
But there are enough other projects that failed,so maybee he isnt a good leader.

[RGFrog]

As individuals, they all have problems. However, as cogs in the greater machine they bring talents Shep may be lacking or need bolstered.

Also, this is TIM and Cerb. He's a fringe organization picking from fringe individuals he knows he can somehow buy and won't have qualms working for the worst pro-human org. in the galaxy.

In the case of Zaed, it's literally purchased with money, and with the others they're purchased with other things. But they are all, Sheppard included, bought and paid for and to a business man that comes from a contracts and deals life, being paid for is more reliable than someone doing something for a cause.

[LeonBrass]

If I were "interviewing for positions" part of the interview would be:



shep: Do you work for the highest bidder??

prospect: "hell, ya"

shep: "F'gedda'about'it"



Do you work for Cerberus?

P: "of course, they look out for humanity"

shep: "you're either naive, or a sleeper agent.. NEXT"



Are you a psychopath?

P: "F*** you!"

Shep: "Here, have a bullet to the face" -(bang)

[OniGanon]

tonnactus wrote...

Do you really think she put herself in the bubble only to fool you??

Sure. Barrier curtain in case I planned to shoot her on sight. Bubble to make herself seem vulnerable, evoke sympathy and build credibility for when she tells you she's not with Benezia. It's possible.

You think I'm going to take a 100yr old female suspect at her word just because she acts wide-eyed and innocent? 100 years old. Asari join criminal merc bands as early as 50. Her apparent combat ability and her penchant for yelling 'Now it gets fun!' right when we start killing things doesn't fill me with comfort either.

I'd be willing to believe her. I'd be willing to rescue her and provide safe harbour. But it would be a long time before I gave her a gun and showed her my back.

[philiposophy]

The whole squad doesn't really make much sense in context of the objective.

Your task is to defeat the Collectors. You don't find out for a while that they operate from a space station you can blow up. Until this point, everyone assumes they have an entire planet (maybe more? everyone else has colonies). There's no way the Normandy, even with a badass crew, could be expected to take on those sort of odds.

So really, Shep's team should only be used to acquire the means to getting through the Omega-4 relay. After that, Cerberus should be sending an entire fleet.

But anyway:

Jacob - he's a good, loyal soldier. Keep.

Kasumi - she's just a thief. A very good one, but you have to wonder why you'd recruit someone like that for a military operation.

Zaeed - tough as hell and experienced. Concerns about mercenary should be alleviated by the astronomical fee he qas bought for (no one's going to outbid Cerberus, are they?). Keep.

Thane - good at killing, but as an assassin he prefers infiltration and precision. Would that work in Shepard's line of work? Not sure, but killing is what he does, so I guess he's a tentative keep.

Grunt - combat and physical prowess unquestionable. Concern is his mental stability. Probably worth the risk since he's so much stronger than anyone else you can pick up. Tentative keep.

Samara - phenomenal biotics and centuries of combat experience. Very loyal due to her code of ethics. Keep.

Morinth - psychopathic space-vampire who wants to kill you? Hell no. Rejected

Legion - risk due to previous geth encounters but he (they? it?) is extremely intelligent and fearless. Worth having around. (maybe tentative) Keep.

Jack - mental instability makes her a liability. Powerful biotic but Samara is just as strong. Asari make better superbiotics than humans.

Mordin - former STG and extremely intelligent. Keep.

Garrus - trusted by Shepard and has obviously become a badass since Archangel days. Keep.

Tali - trusted by Shepard and has gained combat experience since return to flotilla. Probably worth it, but she is still lacking in the combat prowess of everyone else. Keep.

Miranda - your XO. Experienced, loyal, leadership. Keep.

[tonnactus]

OniGanon wrote...


Sure. Barrier curtain in case I planned to shoot her on sight. Bubble to make herself seem vulnerable, evoke sympathy and build credibility for when she tells you she's not with Benezia. It's possible.

You think I'm going to take a 100yr old female suspect at her word just because she acts wide-eyed and innocent? 100 years old. Asari join criminal merc bands as early as 50. Her apparent combat ability and her penchant for yelling 'Now it gets fun!'

I saw and killed a lot of human mercs on illium,an asari planet...
But i dont think your post was serious.

[Arawn-Loki]

Each member of the team excels at what they do. It is supposed to be a mark of Shepard's talent as leader that he can get a highly dysfunctional group to comply with his orders. Individually, each of them can perform at a higher level than their regular military counter-parts (Jack far exceeds the abilities of standard Alliance biotics); what makes Shepard great is not only his own power but also his ability to make people who would like to fight each other as much as the enemy gladly submit to his leadership.

Shepard - squad commander; self-evident.

Miranda - squad lieutenant. As a Sentinel-build, versatile and can handle any situation, justifying her general authority over the squad.

Jacob - defense squad leader. Not really in the build so much as the character. His 'stability' and measured-ness suggests defense.

Garrus - assault squad leader. Not really in the build so much as in the character. His 'recklessness' and 'go-getting' suggests assault.

Kasumi - assault infriltration and espinage; for an Infriltrator-type build, she is good at doing damage while moving around (Shadow Cloak) and can break up enemy formations with her grenade.

Zaeed - assault heavy hitter; less tough than Grunt, but more mobile. and can break up enemy formations with his grenade.

Grunt - defense heavy hiter; tougher than Zaeed, not mobile due to his mass. Easier for him to stay alive on defense with a shot gun than moving toward enemies.

Legion - defense infriltration and espinage; his Geth shield gives him substantial defense against assault and as the squad's best sniper (excepting a Sniper-build Shep) his natural place is sitting in a perch, waiting for enemies to approach.

Tali - Assault tech support; explosive combat drone is very good at breaking up entrenched enemy formations.

Mordin - Defense tech support; Incinerate is his staple ability, and most enemies that wear armor tend to be assault (husks, Krogan, etc), so it is logical he would be the defensive counter.

Jack - Assault team biotic support; Shockwave is good at breaking up enemy formations. Unstable personality suggests assault.

Samara - Defense team biotic support; her biotic abilities seem more orientated toward pushing enemies back than Jack's. More stable personality suggests defense.

Thane - a self-confessed loner; he's the kind of guy who is doing something else vital to the mission while other people are defending and assaulting. Taking out enemy commanders for example.

Modifié par Arawn-Loki, 06 mai 2010 - 08:30 .

[Pacifien]

If we were working on a true Suicide Run concept, I'd completely go for a Dirty Dozen troop of the galaxies toughest and/or smartest misfits that no one would miss after the deed was done and they were all dead. Of the twelve squadmates actually in the game, there are only three who I think actually fit the bill: Mordin, Jack, and Okeer.

Mordin has the intelligence needed to work against Collector technology and a background that lends itself toward challenges in which the future of Council space is at stake. He's former STG, and as Captain Kirrahe says, they would be heroes but the records are sealed.

Jack is the most powerful human biotic, possibly equal to the most powerful asari, and she's perceived as having no other value beyond what she can do with that biotic power. She is the weapon you throw at the enemy without caring if she comes back out alive. The trick is to convince her to do that for you.

Okeer is a powerful Krogan warlord, hated among his own people, and starts out with more experience with the Collectors than anyone else. He is arguably an intellectual match for Mordin going up against an advanced foe.

Now, I should probably mention that I like Jack and do care about her being thrown to the wolves, but that's after recruiting her. The assessment is just based on her dossier matched with a seemingly impossible task. And Okeer turns out not to be recruitable, but again, the dossier is for him and is matched with the task at hand.

But anyway, my Shepard never took it as a suicide mission. I don't know if there's something in the storytelling aspect that failed in that respect, but at no point did I feel like I wasn't going to be able to make it through without everyone alive. Everyone going "you're probably going to die" became a farce. So if my Shepard wasn't going to take it as a suicide mission, it makes more sense to go with the very best he could recruit to get the job done and go home.

In that respect, anyone from the previous mission against Saren is an acceptable recruit because they have shown their worth, worked well with Shepard, and have every reason to see the Reaper threat through. This makes Garrus and Tali acceptable so far. But to get Garrus, you have to see that Archangel is acceptable because that's the dossier you're given. The fact that Archangel is responsible for high profile attack on gangs on Omega doesn't immediately lend itself toward galaxy-changing missions. The only way I could see recruiting Archangel is if Mordin, being one person I'd definitely recruit on Omega who should know something of Archangel's reputation, mentions he'd want to recruit him.

Now Grunt was never intended to be recruited, he's just a by-product of trying to recruit Okeer. Letting him out of the tank depends on just how curious and crazy your Shepard happens to be. Since mine is both, seeing as how the initial confrontation plays out and how Krogans tend to be, I don't see any reason not to have Grunt on the team. He is made to be the perfect Krogan warrior and is willing to fight for you on a mission that most wouldn't touch. Bonus.

Jacob, Miranda, and the Cerberus crew are all recruits you're not given much choice about if you intend to use the Illusive Man's resources, which you have no choice because that's integral to the story. Jacob projects a good first impression: a soldier wanting to be loyal to a good cause. Miranda's first impression is all about being the Illusive Man's right hand man. I wouldn't want her on my team, but I'm given zero choice in the manner. As for the rest of the Cerberus crew, they seem to have been chosen specifically because they have either vested interest in the colony attacks or loyalty/respect for Shepard. Except for Kelly. I don't trust that one.

The rest of the squadmates then get iffy for me. Now, I like Zaeed, but his background doesn't strike me as one where you'd single him out of all the other mercenaries to be a part of a team on a vital mission. The very fact he took the job for any amount of money given the reputation of the Collectors tells me he's both crazy and skeptical of the severity of the threat.

Again, I like Samara, but why give us a dossier on a Justicar when Justicars are known to work alone in asari space, usually with a specific goal in mind? The only way I could have seen this making sense is if 1) her previous experience against the Collectors was more considerable than is actually stated in the game or the Illusive Man exchanged Morinth's location for Samara's skills. Otherwise, it would have made more sense if she was an Asari commando.

Thane actually does sound like a good squadmate for the mission. He has stealth, he has precision, he has excellent hand-to-hand combat, and he has nothing to lose. And it turns out that helping you becomes a way for him to come to terms with whatever spiritual issues he's having. Unfortunately, none of his strengths as an assassin are actually used during the final mission.

Kasumi would have been an excellent person to convince to join your squad because of her expert technological skills. "Would have been," though. After you get Tali, the only other reason to go after another tech expert would be if that tech expert offered a completely different set of technological skills to the mission. Kasumi really doesn't. Plus, I'm sure there are other tech experts that are more combat trained than Kasumi. The only way I'd see going for a thief is if Kasumi was played as a true technological genius. Instead, she's just played as really, really good at it.

Legion actually falls completely outside of the Illusive Man's influence on squadmates. He's recruited solely because Shepard wants to recruit him. And going with my Shepard being curious and crazy, Legion would have been activated and accepted based on the initial conversation you have with him. I'm a bit biased, though, as the Geth are the closest we get toward the hard science fiction stories I tend to enjoy.

Did I miss someone? Is that long enough? Did someone actually read all of that?

Modifié par Pacifien, 06 mai 2010 - 08:53 .

[Samurai_Wahoo]

@ Arawn-Loki

You make some good points about Shep's leadership, but I find the optimism of Shep being able to handle the crew that has been hand picked would be far too unrealistic.  I can not believe that anyone could ever command that kind of respect from the biggest group of anti-social misfits that he was given.  I would rather have Cerebus agents/soldiers that understand formation, chain of command, and trained for military operations.

Oh well, still a great game.